I hope the Camaro won't have dummy guages...

One thing I hope the Camaro doesn't stray from is guages that WORK. A pet peeve of mine with many cars, especially with Fords is dummy guages. Having a working oil and temp. guage is an essential to any muscle car, and I certainly hope GM doesn't end up just giving us gas and dummy temp guages. Does anyone know anything about this?

Jason

www.autometer.com

What do you mean, dummy gauges?

I've seen lots of cars that didn't have an oil pressure gauge at all, and if that's what you mean, then I agree. I think that all cars should have, at the very least, a speedometer and tachometer, plus fuel level, oil pressure, water temperature, and voltage. Forced induction cars should have a manifold air pressure (boost) gauge as well.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "dummy gauges." On my Grand Prix, I have a digital gauge that supposedly measures the supercharger boost in a short of bar graph but doesn't ever give an actual psi number. I kind of consider that a "dummy gauge", not sure if that is what you are thinking of well. That kind of drives me nuts as I would rather have a real gauge on it, especially if I were to swap pulleys or something and upped the boost amount.

We've always called the light that pops on to tell you to check something a 'dummy guage'.

I assumed he meant he didn't want JUST the light to warn about something, he wanted actual guages.

We've always called the light that pops on to tell you to check something a 'dummy guage'.
Oh. I've always heard those called "idiot lights."

Oh. I've always heard those called "idiot lights."

You know what, I think I got confused. (Not very hard to do.)

You're right, they're idiot lights. It's just been so long since I heard that term that I thought it's what he meant by dummy guages.

Now I have no idea what he was talking about. LOL

What do you mean, dummy gauges?


A dummy guage to me is a guage that works but only stays in the middle and doesn't have any numbers. Ford has used dummy guages for probably 10+ years now. A Ford oil pressure for example guage registers in the middle of the guage as long as there is 7psi of pressure. It will stay there at hot idle or if the motor is getting 80+psi at WOT when cold.

This is the kind of "dummy guage" I despise. ;)

Jason

I agree with this. I want to KNOW what's happening, not just that it's in an acceptable operating range

Yeah, hopefully it won't have those. I want to see actual, specific measurements, otherwise, the gauge serves no purpose to me.

A dummy guage to me is a guage that works but only stays in the middle and doesn't have any numbers. Ford has used dummy guages for probably 10+ years now. A Ford oil pressure for example guage registers in the middle of the guage as long as there is 7psi of pressure. It will stay there at hot idle or if the motor is getting 80+psi at WOT when cold.

Oh, yeah, that sounds crappy. I've never owned a Ford, so I've never had to deal with one of those. :)

A dummy guage to me is a guage that works but only stays in the middle and doesn't have any numbers. Ford has used dummy guages for probably 10+ years now. A Ford oil pressure for example guage registers in the middle of the guage as long as there is 7psi of pressure. It will stay there at hot idle or if the motor is getting 80+psi at WOT when cold.

This is the kind of "dummy guage" I despise. ;)

Jason


Yeah, the 99-02 F-Bods had "dummy" temp gauges. When the car is 'warmed up' it reads 210. I have a 160 stat and it still reads 210*. Even when I shot the engine w/ a laser T-stat and it was reading 150* on the heads after a 15 mile drive on a 90* day.

Yeah, the 99-02 F-Bods had "dummy" temp gauges. When the car is 'warmed up' it reads 210. I have a 160 stat and it still reads 210*. Even when I shot the engine w/ a laser T-stat and it was reading 150* on the heads after a 15 mile drive on a 90* day.

Mine seems to read accurately. :shrug:

You know it's the temperature of the coolant, not of the engine or any part of the engine, right?

I'm almost positive he's right... I thought the oil pressure gauge was a dummy gauge on late LS1's too though. Does anyone with an LS1 car have a gauge that reads anywhere other than right in the middle? It seems like everyone I've driven has been 210 all the time, even right as the fan kicks on...

Does anyone with an LS1 car have a gauge that reads anywhere other than right in the middle?
As stated in my post above, yes, I do. :)

I haven't confirmed the accuracy with an aftermarket gauge, but it reads exactly how I would expect it to. It goes down when the fans turn on, it takes longer to warm up on cold days. It may be lacking in precision, but it's no dummy gauge.

I'm almost positive he's right... I thought the oil pressure gauge was a dummy gauge on late LS1's too though. Does anyone with an LS1 car have a gauge that reads anywhere other than right in the middle? It seems like everyone I've driven has been 210 all the time, even right as the fan kicks on...

They may not be the most accurate gauges around but the ones in my cars all move around with changing conditions, T-stats and fan settings.

I thought the oil pressure gauge was a dummy gauge on late LS1's too though. Does anyone with an LS1 car have a gauge that reads anywhere other than right in the middle? It seems like everyone I've driven has been 210 all the time, even right as the fan kicks on...

LS1's all have real oil pressure guages. The temp guage on 99+ models were dummy guages; the 98 temp guage works. My temp guage does give enough info to tell you how quickly the car warms up. But once it's near 210, it pretty well stays. When I put a 160 t-stat in, it will read slightly below 210 on cooler days, when the coolant temp is under 180. It's enough for me to tell about what's going on, but certainly not exact.

Jason

LS1's all have real oil pressure guages. The temp guage on 99+ models were dummy guages; the 98 temp guage works. My temp guage does give enough info to tell you how quickly the car warms up. But once it's near 210, it pretty well stays. When I put a 160 t-stat in, it will read slightly below 210 on cooler days, when the coolant temp is under 180. It's enough for me to tell about what's going on, but certainly not exact.

That's not a dummy gauge. It's just not very accurate.

That's not a dummy gauge. It's just not very accurate.

Well, it's "dummed down" by the PCM instead of being directly connected to the guage. ;)

Jason

Well, it's "dummed down" by the PCM instead of being directly connected to the guage.
Evidence?

I wouldn't be surprised if the PCM were applying some smoothing to the signal, just because most people don't want jumpy gauge needles.

He is right. Do a search. 99+ gauges are dummy gauges when they have reached operating temperature. The needle doesn't move, period. There is a temperature window for the engine that the PCM will keep the gauge at 210, although I don't recall how wide that range is.

The PCM logs the actually temperature. Why don't we have a damn gauge that shows that simple information?

- Here are some links

http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=544878&highlight=dummy+temperature+gauge

http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=520090&highlight=dummy+temperature+gauge

http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=679758&highlight=temp+gauge

A dummy guage to me is a guage that works but only stays in the middle and doesn't have any numbers. Ford has used dummy guages for probably 10+ years now. A Ford oil pressure for example guage registers in the middle of the guage as long as there is 7psi of pressure. It will stay there at hot idle or if the motor is getting 80+psi at WOT when cold.

This is the kind of "dummy guage" I despise. ;)

Jason


Good point made, I was wondering about "dummy gauges" myself...

More than likely, the new Camaro will have GM's DIC (Driver Information Center). In the main instrument cluster, they have a speedo, tach, fuel, and temp. Now, they may add an oil pressure gauge and volt meter, but they may not. Reason being is with the DIC, you can scroll through the menu and find all the vital signs of your engine in real time, and in exact, digital numbers. Some GM DICs don't have as many features as others, but I do know the Cadillac CTS will give you engine temp. in numerical degrees and in F or C, oil pressure in PSI or kPa, and electrical voltage output of the charging system in Volts DC - and ALL in real time, so when you hit the gas, you will see all the numbers change and adjust accordingly.

My Corolla only has two guages-- speedometer and gas. Pretty sad really.

My '91 Jeep Wrangler PowerWheel had dummy guages. All of its guages were just stickers with the needles stuck on. :lol:

If the car doesn't have an analog gauge for the speedo AND the tach, both easily visible without looking down at the console, I won't buy one, end of story.

If it doesn't have gauges for fuel level, oil pressure, water temperature, and volts visible SOMEWHERE (DIC, console, dash, whatever), I won't buy one.

If the car has forced induction and no boost gauge, I won't buy one.

If those six are all visible at all times (like they are on my Z28), I'll be very happy.

Any more gauges are icing on the cake.

If the car doesn't have an analog gauge for the speedo AND the tach, both easily visible without looking down at the console, I won't buy one, end of story.

If it doesn't have gauges for fuel level, oil pressure, water temperature, and volts visible SOMEWHERE (DIC, console, dash, whatever), I won't buy one.

If the car has forced induction and no boost gauge, I won't buy one.

If those six are all visible at all times (like they are on my Z28), I'll be very happy.

Any more gauges are icing on the cake.

I don't think you need to worry about the speedo and tach. I doubt the car will not be built with easily legible analog gauges for those and the fuel and temp. Whether they include a volt meter and oil pressure gauge on the analog cluster or they will only be accessible through the DIC is still up in the air I think. But you don't have to worry. They aren't going to put anything like those digital instrument clusters GM used in the 80's that were both cool and absolutely useless at the same time.

We've always called the light that pops on to tell you to check something a 'dummy guage'.

I assumed he meant he didn't want JUST the light to warn about something, he wanted actual guages.

Actually, the gages were called dummy or idiot lights. and this is because most of the time the light was always on weather working or not.but in regards to the 2009 Camero gages i saw the set up and in my opinion i feel that the gages would best accent the dash in a 45 deg angel torwards the driver of course with a slight tilt upward for a better view of all the gages. and a very beautiful car indeed...

LS1's all have real oil pressure guages. The temp guage on 99+ models were dummy guages; the 98 temp guage works. My temp guage does give enough info to tell you how quickly the car warms up. But once it's near 210, it pretty well stays. When I put a 160 t-stat in, it will read slightly below 210 on cooler days, when the coolant temp is under 180. It's enough for me to tell about what's going on, but certainly not exact.

Jason

Ive read that more than once. probably here though. My 98 temp gauge did seam to be smooth

Most cars these days have "dummy gauges".

That's because idiots would say they want more gauges and then freak out when the needles started moving and drive back to the dealership for a warranty claim or they would complain to JD Powers or whatever.

Solution: Gauges that don't have any numbers and always point to "Normal" unless there is a major problem. Almost nobody notices the difference and virtually zero complaints.

If your gas gauge doesn't move when you slam on brakes or cut a hard turn, you probably have an idiot gauge. It also won't move when you're filling the tank at the gas station...usually not till you restart the car.

If your temperature gauge never changes when you drive on the highway or in the city, or you can't see any fluctuation from the thermostat opening and closing, you probably have an idiot gauge.

If you never see oil pressure fluctuating, you probably have an idiot gauge.

...you get the idea...

Dummy gauges could honestly make or brake.....I want to know whats going on, not some dumb downed version of what *might* be happening.

Most cars these days have "dummy gauges".

That's because idiots would say they want more gauges and then freak out when the needles started moving and drive back to the dealership for a warranty claim or they would complain to JD Powers or whatever.

Solution: Gauges that don't have any numbers and always point to "Normal" unless there is a major problem. Almost nobody notices the difference and virtually zero complaints.

If your gas gauge doesn't move when you slam on brakes or cut a hard turn, you probably have an idiot gauge. It also won't move when you're filling the tank at the gas station...usually not till you restart the car.

If your temperature gauge never changes when you drive on the highway or in the city, or you can't see any fluctuation from the thermostat opening and closing, you probably have an idiot gauge.

If you never see oil pressure fluctuating, you probably have an idiot gauge.

...you get the idea...


I don't really care about a "dummy" gas tank gauge. As long as it is reasonably accurate, that is fine. However, unless you want to count the gas gauge the only real dummy gauge in the 4th gens is the coolant temp post model year 98. I dislike it. A lot. Both the oil pressure and charging voltage display in real time, why not the coolant temp?

Ford seems to be in love with dummy gauges, because that is pretty much all I found in the Mustang GT I had, as far as ancillary gauges go.

all modern gas gauges are accurate level indicators, but "buffered" for fuel slosh

www.autometer.com:confused::metal: OWNED

Isn't it the law that all the gauges HAVE to be working nowadays?

Isn't it the law that all the gauges HAVE to be working nowadays?

no, AFAIK, only law is for speedo accuracy, which is, IIRC, it needs to read within 5% of vehicle speed