Camaro and Monaro can coexist... so can GTO

Nice article here: http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/967FEB6209C18172CA2572960016B1EC

"At this moment in time, honestly, we don’t have that on the drawing board and you won’t be hearing any announcement from us in the next few months on that because there isn’t any to be made.



Also, let me just say that IMO, all this talk about Zeta's flexibility has been way overstated. As far as I can see, Zeta can generate large coupes and sedans or larger sedans. The difference between the very smallest Zeta and the very largest Zeta will be 10-12" in length.

IMO, the key part is right at the end:

"We think there is a demand for a Monaro, but you have to set your priorities – your engineering, how much resources you have got and where you want to spend your money.

"For us, we’ve sat and watched the SUV market for the last decade and that segment is now huge. It’s as important as the large-car market and we’ve just (sat by and) watched it. We really need to set our priorities and that’s our priority."

In other words, they would love to build a Monaro, but they are building [something more important] instead.

Also, let me just say that IMO, all this talk about Zeta's flexibility has been way overstated. As far as I can see, Zeta can generate large coupes and sedans or larger sedans. The difference between the very smallest Zeta and the very largest Zeta will be 10-12" in length.


Has been (pretty exhaustively, I'd say) explained before. By GM, by me, and if memory serves correctly, by at least 1 other person actually involved in the thing.

Zeta is extremely flexible via wheelbases that can be easily changed, the "firewall" ('Thermal event seperator' as I was corrected) is no longer a unchanging part from application to application. Once you establish the long, medium, and short platform (which appartently cost very little) you can create a wide range of wheelbases and body styles on that structure without the limitations or expense of doing the same on a traditional unibody vehicle.



As for Monaro/GTO........ well........you know what I've been saying...... ;)

Has been (pretty exhaustively, I'd say) explained before. By GM, by me, and if memory serves correctly, by at least 1 other person actually involved in the thing.

Zeta is extremely flexible via wheelbases that can be easily changed, the "firewall" ('Thermal event seperator' as I was corrected) is no longer a unchanging part from application to application. Once you establish the long, medium, and short platform (which appartently cost very little) you can create a wide range of wheelbases and body styles on that structure without the limitations or expense of doing the same on a traditional unibody vehicle.



As for Monaro/GTO........ well........you know what I've been saying...... ;)

I didn't say that it had no flex. It has some flex - just like any other modern automotive architecture.

I'm just contesting all of this wizbang, most flexible architecture evar (FTW) talk..... because it's just not true.

No, let's not build another awesome Monaro/GTO, let's build a big grocery gettter, yeah!

Well, I hope they are building this:

http://imgred.com/http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/wray/Images/new_torana/Holden-TT36-Torana-Hatch-Concept-009.jpg

I didn't say that it had no flex. It has some flex - just like any other modern automotive architecture.

I'm just contesting all of this wizbang, most flexible architecture evar (FTW) talk..... because it's just not true.

I don't think I have ever heard that statement made by either GM or anyone well versed on the chassis. That said, I'm trying to think of another recent platform that was or will be able to spawn the eight different platform sizes that Zeta can, and that is before you start talking about the body styles that will sit ontop of that chassis.

I'm happy to be corrected, however.

Well, I hope they are building this:

http://imgred.com/http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/wray/Images/new_torana/Holden-TT36-Torana-Hatch-Concept-009.jpg

Don't worry the Pink will be available as an optional color on the Camaro, gotta support your team right?;)

I don't think I have ever heard that statement made by either GM or anyone well versed on the chassis. That said, I'm trying to think of another recent platform that was or will be able to spawn the eight different platform sizes that Zeta can, and that is before you start talking about the body styles that will sit ontop of that chassis.

I'm happy to be corrected, however.

Just off the top of my head..
GM's Delta and Epsilon. Chrysler's K-car. Ford's D3 and CD3. VW/Audi's B6 (PL46). Either one of BMW's 2 architectures. And by GM's own admission - GM's 60's era A-body.

If Zeta could spawn Torana sized cars and still do Senators, now that would be something to remark about. But of course it can't. I'm not saying that's good or bad - it's no more or less remarkable than any number of other architectures.

Bit busy at the moment, but i've had a look at the Delta platform compared to the zeta. The biggest difference in wheelbase (a reasonable indication of chassis difference) on a delta car is 3.56 inches (89mm) between the Zafira and the ION. Now, that's a coupe against an MPV, so there may be other reasons behind that, but I don't know if that difference is made up by suspension mounting differences, or by chassis changes.

By contrast, the biggest difference on the Zeta platform so far is 8.12 inches (3009mm to 2806mm) - the Caprice to the Camaro concept. Now, it's been reported that both cars use exactly the same suspension, and if I has the time I'd look into the other dimensions that have changed on the same chassis, I'm sure that I'd find many other dimensions that have changed by larger and more obvious amounts.

You see, spouting different bodystyles (coupes, hatchbacks, etc) off one chassis is nothing new, nor is it terribly clever. Many of the platforms you've listed do just that. The strength and the difference in the Zeta flexibility is that is takes that to another level - core dimensions of the car are adjustable to give a wide range of distinct and unique proportions. Take a look at the Caprice and the Camaro, as opposed to the ION and the Zafira. It's not hard to see the latter on the same platform - it's much harder to see how the former could also be using an identical chassis.

Bit busy at the moment, but i've had a look at the Delta platform compared to the zeta. The biggest difference in wheelbase (a reasonable indication of chassis difference) on a delta car is 3.56 inches (89mm) between the Zafira and the ION. Now, that's a coupe against an MPV, so there may be other reasons behind that, but I don't know if that difference is made up by suspension mounting differences, or by chassis changes.

By contrast, the biggest difference on the Zeta platform so far is 8.12 inches (3009mm to 2806mm) - the Caprice to the Camaro concept. Now, it's been reported that both cars use exactly the same suspension, and if I has the time I'd look into the other dimensions that have changed on the same chassis, I'm sure that I'd find many other dimensions that have changed by larger and more obvious amounts.

You see, spouting different bodystyles (coupes, hatchbacks, etc) off one chassis is nothing new, nor is it terribly clever. Many of the platforms you've listed do just that. The strength and the difference in the Zeta flexibility is that is takes that to another level - core dimensions of the car are adjustable to give a wide range of distinct and unique proportions. Take a look at the Caprice and the Camaro, as opposed to the ION and the Zafira. It's not hard to see the latter on the same platform - it's much harder to see how the former could also be using an identical chassis.

I'm abit busy at this moment as well, but I'll just touch on a couple of points. The Camaro concept is just that - a concept. It's production dimensions will differ from those on the concept. The wheelbase difference between the smallest production Zeta (Camaro) and largest production production Zeta, will probably be more in the range of 6.5" or so. Also, Camaro recieved substantial re-engineering compared to the VE Commodore. True, it does share certain compnents sets - like suspension, general floorpan, etc. But it's upper structure is ALL NEW, not shared with any other Zeta. It's front of dash structure and engine cradle is also ALL NEW. To some degree, while sharing certain components, Camaro will be sort of an offshoot of what we consider the sedan structure to be. Even with all of that tear up and re-engineering, the Camaro will still come within just afew inches of the Commodore.

I am going to throw in an example here since we are talking about flexible platforms. The Nissan FM chassis. It has spawned several different types of vehicles in at least 2 basic sizes. The larger FM spawned the FX Crossovers and the M sedans, also I believe the GTR will be on this as well. The smaller spawned the G35 sedan/coupe and 350Z.

Now I have read that the Altima, Maxima, and Murano are all on FM but I think that is just part of the structure and is nowhere near as similar as somethings I have read have suggested, I mean we know the floorpan, firewall, front suspension, and rear suspension have to be different so what is the same?

Something else this exemplifies is how flex platforms aren't always the best choice the 350Z vs the Vette, or Solstice if you preffer, is a perfect example. FM is flexible but it comes at a cost: weight and has limits. I am sure that Nissan would have liked for the 350Z to come in at less than 3000 lbs but that couldn't happen and share chassis components with other FMs at its price point.