Bob Lutz denies Production Camaro will be bigger than concept

I hesitate to post this since it can be construed as self promotion (I'm 50% partner in the forum I'm about to post a link to), but this is huge news so get over it:

Straight from the Horse's mouth, Lutz says the Camaro isn't growing:

http://www.automochatter.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229

Let me make it a bit easier for people to get the info here...

From:
http://www.automochatter.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229

Alright, all of this talk about the Camaro growing compared to the concept has caused great consternation - namely from me.

I contacted Bob Lutz, to hear his comments on the matter. I respect the confidentiality of private communications, so I waited until I recieved his personal permission to publicly post his message.

Hi Bob,

There is some info circulating around the internet regarding the length of the upcoming Camaro. It seems to have grown compared to the Concept. I understand the need for 5 star crash ratings and limitations with Zeta's architecture, really I do. But a Camaro the same size as my 5 passenger, 4 door, CTS, is very disappointing to me. If true, my excitement for the car has been diminished.

Thanks for listening
Charlie

To which Bob Lutz responded:

Worry not. The production car is trimmer looking and no bigger than the concept that was shown. In fact, other than a more realistic roof height, I have to look at the door handles to see which is which; concept, or production?

And there you have it!

Thanks for putting that one to bed.

And I have been saying basically what you posted here for a long time:
I think Lutz & Co. know they have to get this car right. You don't screw millions of loyal fans by killing off their cars, then sit out the game for 7 years, and come back with anything less than a grand slam home run.

Thanks, Charlie and Chris!

Great feedback! :thumb: Thanks for bringing that question up the line for us, Charlie :).

After having seen both the Challenger & Camaro concepts again at the Toronto auto show this past weekend, I can honestly say I'm still pumped about the Camaro, and the Challenger is definitely HUGE!!! :rolleyes:

Would have "liked" to see the orange convertible concept, but I was happy to see the red car (a color, instead of silver! :p)

Well, back to waiting patiently!! :) :cz28:

Sounds like good news to me! :)

I guess we're getting different door handles, then :(

great news..

Thx Jason. :cool:

I'm more excited about this car now than I think I was at NAIAS when they unveiled it. The idea each one of us will be able to essentially buy a fully functional copy of the concept....its just plain awesome.

Definitely sounds like good news.:cool:

That is good news. Now if they could juuuust fix my other complaints with it.... ;)

Thats great to hear.

Now if they could juuuust fix my other complaints with it.... ;)mine will have to wait for the 6th gen.:D

Hey, if it does end up looking almost identical to the concept, I may be buying one anyway. It's just going to be very difficult to give up my tops. And I don't want a convertible.

mine will have to wait for the 6th gen.:D
... or the Pontiac version? ;)

:D

I don't like the door handles - they're too heavy. I'm not buying it.

Bob

:lol:

... or the Pontiac version? ;)

:D

:metal:

"the sky is falling!!! ... the sky is falling!!! ..."

http://ryanduff.net/images/wordpress/chickenlittle.jpg



Uh... nevermind."

http://www.thelarrypage.com/lists/images/gilda.jpg


We now return you to your regularly scheduled daily post on Camaro diecasts...

:irk:

We now return you to your regularly scheduled daily post on Camaro diecasts...

:irk:

:lol:

yeah no kidding....... :rolleyes:

We now return you to your regularly scheduled daily post on Camaro diecasts...

:irk:

That's a good one. :)

Bob

I don't like the door handles - they're too heavy. I'm not buying it.

Bob


:lol: :thumb: LMAO

We now return you to your regularly scheduled daily post on Camaro diecasts...

:lol: Don't gripe too much, considering it is the only way someone can actually buy and take home a 5th gen Camaro as of today. ;);)

:lol: Don't gripe too much, considering it is the only way someone can actually buy and take home a 5th gen Camaro as of today. ;);)
:D That was in no way directed at you Jason. :D

A post talking about the CamaroZ28.com special edition diecasts is warranted in this section.

IMHO, every other post about the latest score by every single pimple faced genXer is better off being "Lounge" material. ;)

Which begs the question: where do you punks get off calling yourselves generation X? I'm in my 40s and we were the original GenX. Shouldn't you kids be Generation Z by now? :D

Which begs the question: where do you punks get off calling yourselves generation X? I'm in my 40s and we were the original GenX. Shouldn't you kids be Generation Z by now? :D
Ha, ha! You could be my Dad!!!!! :p :D :lol:

(that's what you get for publicly admitting your age! ;))

... I thought there was actually a Gen-"Y" now?? :think: (which, I guess, would be my generation??? :shrug: )

[/off topic] ;)

Ha, ha! You could be my Dad!!!!! :p :D :lol:

(that's what you get for publicly admitting your age! ;))

... I thought there was actually a Gen-"Y" now?? :think: (which, I guess, would be my generation??? :shrug: )

[/off topic] ;)

I believe GenY is anyone born after 1981 or so.

I'm 32 and part of GenX.

Though, it's true, shouldn't there be something past GenY by now?

I believe GenY is anyone born after 1981 or so.

I'm 32 and part of GenX.

Though, it's true, shouldn't there be something past GenY by now?

According to Wikipedia:

Generation X-----------------1960s–1980s
MTV Generation--------------1974–1985
Boomerang Generation--------1977–1986
Generation Y-----------------1970s–1990s
Internet Generation-----------1980s-1990s
New Silent Generation---------1990s or 2000s

Ha, ha! You could be my Dad!!!!! :p :D :lol:How do you know I'm not? :D

Whew, Charlie...now you can put the nitro pills away, and turn off the oxygen machine.
Yet another Camaro crisis averted. Thanks Interweb!

I believe GenY is anyone born after 1981 or so.
Note the D.O.B. - link - ;) (http://web.camaross.com/forums/member.php?u=25817)

How do you know I'm not? :D
:eek:

..... daddy??? :confused: :shock:

:p

Worry not. The production car is trimmer looking and no bigger than the concept that was shown. In fact, other than a more realistic roof height, I have to look at the door handles to see which is which; concept, or production?

So... there's a production car ready? Does this mean they can start stamping body panels and putting cars together? Are we really going to have to wait until Dec 08 to buy one?

Whew, Charlie...now you can put the nitro pills away, and turn off the oxygen machine.
Yet another Camaro crisis averted. Thanks Interweb!

No way Al. I keep all of that crap on "ready alert".

So... there's a production car ready?

Unknown. No one has gone on record from GM.

Could be be they did a mockup of the production version at the Tech Center, and that's what Lutz saw.

As far as sooner than 12/08? I believe the holdup will be more in converting Oshawa as opposed to design/engineering.

Unknown. No one has gone on record from GM.

Could be be they did a mockup of the production version at the Tech Center, and that's what Lutz saw.

As far as sooner than 12/08? I believe the holdup will be more in converting Oshawa as opposed to design/engineering.

Didn't Ed Pepers say in the podtech interview that he can't tell a difference between the production and concept Camaros? I tried to watch the clip again, but it says it is no longer available on podtech....

I know for a fact that the interior is not ready for production. However, I wouldn't be suprised if they pretty much have the exterior ready to go.....

Note the D.O.B. - link - ;) (http://web.camaross.com/forums/member.php?u=25817)


:eek:

..... daddy??? :confused: :shock:

:pWell seeing that I was a sophomore in high school at the time... I seriously doubt it. :D

Didn't Ed Pepers say in the podtech interview that he can't tell a difference between the production and concept Camaros?

Yes he did... and if folks have been paying attention to the credible information already out there, this has been the message all along. The prodcution car will be very close to the concept.

Fbodfather added his comments to Charlie's post on my board... which generated a similar reaction from some there too.

Charlie -- calm down.
It's not a case of you not being allowed to voice your opinion. Everyones' opinions count.
I think what people are saying is 'just calm down -- you may very well be pleasantly surprised.'
Yes -- we want to keep you happy --- but I want to keep everyone happy -- and I think that you are in the minority of those concerned about the length issue.
The bottom line is there is substantially more MIS-information out there than there is good information.
Remember --we've called Jenny Craig!

So... there's a production car ready? Does this mean they can start stamping body panels and putting cars together? Are we really going to have to wait until Dec 08 to buy one?
Unknown. No one has gone on record from GM.

Could be be they did a mockup of the production version at the Tech Center, and that's what Lutz saw.

As far as sooner than 12/08? I believe the holdup will be more in converting Oshawa as opposed to design/engineering.
Agreed ... as of yet, I haven't heard of much going on inside the plant yet. We've got a couple guys who can (hopefully) keep us posted of any changes going on inside, but I agree ... if the car is going to be out earlier than *officially* announced, the change in the plant has to start SOON!! :rolleyes:

Well seeing that I was a sophomore in high school at the time... I seriously doubt it. :D
Hey, strange things happen! ;)

Fbodfather added his comments to Charlie's post on my board... which generated a similar reaction from some there too.
...
The bottom line is there is substantially more MIS-information out there than there is good information.
...
You know what's funny ... Scott's right! As much as there are lots of things that we DO know about the Concept/Camaro, there are still LOTS of un-knowns! :rolleyes: For all the "insider info", "hints", "winks" and all the rest we get, I'm sure we've got a good "guess" what the end result is going to be. BUT, there sure are a lot of important, key pieces of info that we still DO NOT KNOW :think:. I'm almost surprised, and/or impressed that they've managed to keep the details under wraps so well?! :confused: :irk: I mean, wouldn't we all love to know how much the production concept REALLY weighs?? ;) Or what the OFFICIAL plan is on engines? (how many variations and HP??) ..... and the most important, which car will be the "top dog"?! :lol:

Yes he did... and if folks have been paying attention to the credible information already out there, this has been the message all along. The prodcution car will be very close to the concept.

Fbodfather added his comments to Charlie's post on my board... which generated a similar reaction from some there too.

Right, but what I was getting at is that the exterior portion of the production version of the 5th gen is ready or very very close to being ready then... But I know for sure the interior is not...

That does bring up an interesting point though. If the exterior is indeed done or close to being done, and this car is still approx 1.5 - 2 yrs away, I wonder how long they will be able to keep the lid on it before spy pictures are leaked.... that is an aweful long time to keep the vultures away....

I don't like the door handles - they're too heavy. I'm not buying it.

Bob

OOOF! :lol:

"the sky is falling!!! ... the sky is falling!!! ..."

http://ryanduff.net/images/wordpress/chickenlittle.jpg



Uh... nevermind."

http://www.thelarrypage.com/lists/images/gilda.jpg


We now return you to your regularly scheduled daily post on Camaro diecasts...

:irk:

:lol:

Whew, Charlie...now you can put the nitro pills away, and turn off the oxygen machine.
Yet another Camaro crisis averted. Thanks Interweb!

Should we invest in a defribulator for the next crisis? ;)

So... there's a production car ready? Does this mean they can start stamping body panels and putting cars together? Are we really going to have to wait until Dec 08 to buy one?

Sure.

Just one question.

Where ya going to make them?

Or yet another question.... where's the money to set everything up??



Hints:
1. Oshawa #1 & #2 needs time to finish the run out of Grand Prixs and Monte Carlos.
2. Oshawa #1 needs to convert over to producing Lacrosses on Impala's assembly line.
3. Oshawa #2 needs to be set up and gutted, then completely redone.
4. Oshawa # 2 needs to have it's "flex" assembly line set up.
5. GM's income over the next few years (mostly from the new GMT900 trucks,and new upcoming crossovers) is going to finance all this.
6. Designing and engineering a car in this age is often quicker than the coordination, financing, and extensive durability testing needed to get the vehicle to market.
7. Interiors are the last thing that's finalized.

I guess we're getting different door handles, then :(

that is what you are concerned about? :eek:

that is what you are concerned about? :eek:

I'm not worried about it per se, but I am a little disappointed because the ones on the concept were SO cool.

No way Al. I keep all of that crap on "ready alert".

Ahahaha... you never know what will happen next? Id hate to see something tragic happen like...oh, the wheel base shrinking to 100 inches!!


Should we invest in a defribulator for the next crisis? ;)


If the above happens...we might need more then that.


The door handles are pretty cool. Brings up another question, maybe for another section of the board...but what about the side glass "indexing" when you open the door? It does on the Corvette and the Mustang.

The door handles are pretty cool. Brings up another question, maybe for another section of the board...but what about the side glass "indexing" when you open the door? It does on the Corvette and the Mustang.

Ok, I gotta ask. What does 'indexing' mean?

Ok, I gotta ask. What does 'indexing' mean?

When you push a button or use the door handle, before the door will open, The glass drops out of an inverted channel at the top to then allow the door to open. The when the door is closed, it moves back up into place. It only has to move a fraction of an inch, but it makes a better seal that way than the way late model f-bodies are, for example.

Make sense?

When you push a button or use the door handle, before the door will open, The glass drops out of an inverted channel at the top to then allow the door to open. The when the door is closed, it moves back up into place. It only has to move a fraction of an inch, but it makes a better seal that way than the way late model f-bodies are, for example.

Make sense?

I think so.

Ok, I gotta ask. What does 'indexing' mean?
Glad you asked and not me!! :D

Make sense?
I wondered, but wasn't sure if that's what "indexing" was. I know exactly what that feature is ... a guy at work has a BMW that does exactly that. I thought it was a neat feature :) ... would be nice to see on the 5th-gen :thumb:.

Basically, for those who don't quite understand, the window rolls up say, ~1/4 inch "higher" into the frame/seal around it. But if you tried to open the door, the window (being so far into the seal) would prevent the door from opening. SO, when you grab the handle, the window rolls down about ~1/4", out of the frame, and you can open the door. When you close it, then the window rolls up that extra ~1/4" and seals very well (which would stop how water can otherwise get in past the window seals on all 1st-4th Gen F-bodies :rolleyes: ).

Great feature ... hope we get it! :)

that is what you are concerned about? :eek:

Not at all. I'm more concerned with my location and finances permitting me to afford the car. Now that I've received a promotion and temporarily have to relocate to Whitehorse in the Yukon for a year or two, I'm looking at a Next Gen Silverado. Once I get out of whitehorse, I'll be in a place that is... How shall I put it... Not crappy conditions to drive a Camaro in.

Great feature ... hope we get it! :)

i hope we do to, im freaking sick of going to the car wash then having to dry out my interior when im done :mad:

Glad you asked and not me!! :D


I wondered, but wasn't sure if that's what "indexing" was. I know exactly what that feature is ... a guy at work has a BMW that does exactly that. I thought it was a neat feature :) ... would be nice to see on the 5th-gen :thumb:.

Basically, for those who don't quite understand, the window rolls up say, ~1/4 inch "higher" into the frame/seal around it. But if you tried to open the door, the window (being so far into the seal) would prevent the door from opening. SO, when you grab the handle, the window rolls down about ~1/4", out of the frame, and you can open the door. When you close it, then the window rolls up that extra ~1/4" and seals very well (which would stop how water can otherwise get in past the window seals on all 1st-4th Gen F-bodies :rolleyes: ).

Great feature ... hope we get it! :)


I don't mind admitting my ignorance when it comes to stuff like this. Most people here (I'd be willing to say 99.9%) know more about cars than me.

This feature sounds nice, but what happens when the mechanism that works it malfunctions? You can't open your door?

Nothing happens if it breaks, it just makes it harder to get the door shut due to no air pressure release. But if it breaks you have other problems...namely not being able to roll the window up/down, because its just an add-on to the power windows.

My wife's 350Z has that feature and it's pretty cool! I haven't seen any sort of measurable that says it's better.....but it is cool! :)

I don't like the door handles - they're too heavy. I'm not buying it.

Bob

:lol: :lol: :bow:

This should be interesting...

I don't mind admitting my ignorance when it comes to stuff like this. Most people here (I'd be willing to say 99.9%) know more about cars than me.

This feature sounds nice, but what happens when the mechanism that works it malfunctions? You can't open your door?

The 05+ Mustang has this feature (short drop window)
Can't see the Camaro not having this feature... all frameless doors should have it.

If your battery goes dead, opening the door is easy... as the moulding will bend to allow the fully raised window to move out.
Closing it is the hard part, as the moulding is back in its original position.
(At least, that's how it is on the Mustang)

For winter storage, before removing the battery, I have the door open so the window is down the 1/4 inch...so that when the battery is yanked the door can close/open, as it stays in that 1/4" down position.

Feature makes a huge difference on window seal.

Glad I brought up a good topic for discussion!
Anyway, There are a lot of little things that should be standard on Camaro.

Ahahaha... you never know what will happen next? Id hate to see something tragic happen like...oh, the wheel base shrinking to 100 inches!!



It won't be shrinking.

The 05+ Mustang has this feature (short drop window)
Can't see the Camaro not having this feature... all frameless doors should have it.

If your battery goes dead, opening the door is easy... as the moulding will bend to allow the fully raised window to move out.
Closing it is the hard part, as the moulding is back in its original position.
(At least, that's how it is on the Mustang)

For winter storage, before removing the battery, I have the door open so the window is down the 1/4 inch...so that when the battery is yanked the door can close/open, as it stays in that 1/4" down position.

Feature makes a huge difference on window seal.

Not a fan of this yet.

On the Mustang it gives the illusion that the window is loose when you close the door. Sort of like how all frameless 70s era GM windows tended to loosen up over time and made that distinctive rattle when you closed the door.

Indexing isn't new. If I recall the BMW 850 series coupes from the mid-late 80s had this feature back then.

I think it would be nice. In fact, I think it would have been nice to see it on GM cars long before now, although the only cars left that could have benefitted after the G and B-body coupes departed were the F-bodies and the early Aurora and Riviera.

Hmmm, I remember that "distinctive rattle" now that you mention it - I know that I would have appreciated having indexing on my monte ss whose drivers side window would pop open when the speed got up over 50 km/h. And before anyone says it, yes, I adjusted the stops so that the glass came out a little more - it didn't really help.

On a completely different note, I wish I was important enough to have personal emails from Bob Lutz in my mailbox answering my questions...