This is a rundown of how, as best as I see, these cars primarily compete with each other. Thought was given foremost to price range from base up to fully equipped, with size as a secondary variable. 'Sport' versions were excluded (ie: AMG, -V series, etc), as were coupes.

Feel free to correct me or add on by expanding into luxury SUVs, coupes, sports class vehicles, etc...

Why go to this effort? Just for clarification and because I see a lot of people who've heard of and seen all or most of these vehicles but can't really immediately associate that one competes with the other.

Entry level sedans:
Infiniti G / Acura TL / Lexus ES / Lexus IS / Cadillac CTS / Lincoln MKZ / Audi A4 / BMW 3 / Mercedes C / Jaguar X-Type / Saab 9-3

Mid-level sedans:
Infiniti M / Acura RL / Lexus GS / Cadillac STS / Cadillac DTS / Lincoln Towncar / Audi A6 / BMW 5 / Mercedes E / Jaguar S-Type / Saab 9-5

Premium level sedans:
Infiniti (none until the Q comes back for MY 2008) / Acura (none) / Lexus LS / Lincoln (none) / Cadillac (none) / Audi A8 / BMW 7 / Mercedes S / Jaguar XJ8

 

That's about how I see them lining up. You could add the Maserati Quattorporte to the premium list.

Also, sometimes there is overlap, as you know. Some of the german makes in particular offer some pretty pricy options that can push their price into the stratosphere. In the most recent Car and Driver sport/lux comparison, the 550i they tested ended up at $70k with its options. That is flirting with a 7 Series or LS460 price, I think. Or an STS-V, if you want the increased performance but without a few of the options that were probably on the BMW.

 

I don't see how you can say that the Lincoln MKZ is considered entry level luxury or even luxury at all. If your going to include the MKZ you could throw in a Buick at that price, like the Lucerne. I'm not saying that the MKZ is not nice, but when you look at the other vehicles in that entry list, it is almost laughable.

 

I'm not saying they're necessarily competitive in terms of relative worth in their category - I'm just saying that's how they're intended to compete. The Lucerne may be considered a 'bargain alternative' to some things on that list (or it may not), but Buick isn't really considered a true luxury brand at the moment, though they seem to be trying to work their way to that status, these days, and if they keep putting out products like the Enclave, they very well may be there in another several years.

I mean for that matter the Lincoln Towncar is really a joke in today's auto market and only exists because there's enough people that belong in a retirement home still driving to make the car profitable - especially a car like the Towncar that gets to use an inexpensive BOF chassis and basic design that only gets updated when Ford's parts bins get updated.

 

ckt101's guide to posting at camaroz28.com:

This topic has nothing to do with Automotive news or future vehicle discussion, and doesn't belong in this section.

 

Thanks smartass...

This was meant to serve as a reference guide for the people on this forum that, for example, seem to be unaware of exactly what the Cadillac STS is really competing with; not to mention, something non-GM like the Acura RL, that the crowd here, on average, is likely even less familiar with. Knowing exactly what a new model design is going to compete with can make a big difference as to how you judge it.

 

I would put the DTS and the Town Car into their own category, due to my assumption that nobody cross-shops these against the other members of that list.

 

While I agree on the Towncar, I think that Buick is just as deserving a luxury if your going to include Lincoln on that list. While there cars are not really luxury, compared to others and even Cadillac, I think they need to be put in there if your going to include Lincoln. I believe them to be similar in luxuary and don't believe them to be even close to Cadillac in quality, probably closer to Buick if anything.

 

I'll have to look over Buick. How do you guys see their lineup matching up with the three tiers I have up there? Is their warranty any different from the other GM brands? What's their loaner car policy? That, to me, is an easy way to tell a true luxury brand is if they have an extended and more inclusive/comprehensive warranty plan and service departments than their sister brands.

Good point - I added them. I guess I tend to overlook them because both of their current sedans are stuck in the entry level class range - I guess some might say the 9-5 is meant to compete with the midrange but price-wise and in terms of engine offerings and so on it really appears to be more of a second entry level offering.

 

Its hard to pin down some of these, I think of Town Car, DTS and Buick as more "American Luxury" cars in a category alone, and the more modern Caddys and others as "Euro" luxury cars which is what everything is going to and the traditional "American luxury" cars are a dying breed.
But DTS has a split personallity you can get a DTS Luxury I, which will get you a with no options soft sprung, column shifter, split bench seat DTS. Then there is Luxury II and III, and DTS Performance which gets you bucket seats, floor shifter, center console, performance suspension, 18" performance tires, 300hp Northstar, performance axle ratio, and so on. And for a large FWD car the DTS Performance is very competent sports sedan. I drove one last year around the road course at Indy, and I was surprised at how much this car liked the twisties, it was really fun, and there was no way I could have driven a Town Car like that.

 

Well, they are definitely meant to be competitors, but the fact that you own a 9-3 probably shapes your opinion a slight bit, too.

What's not even close? The 9-3 definitely belongs in the entry level luxury class alongside the 3 and the A4 and the others... I'm not contesting that at all, I just forgot to add it.


I disagree - it starts at 35,440 and with every possible option including the appearance packages gets up to $43,120. It also only comes with a turbo 4-cylinder.
For comparison's sake most of the 'mid-level' cars I listed start at 43k or more, and get up to anywhere from 60 to 75k without even going into the -V/M/-F/AMG lineups, and none of the others offer 4-cylinder configurations - most offer I/V6s and V8s.
Most of the entry level options listed will hit the same 43k sticker price when full equipped like the 9-5, if not exceed it.
The one area that the 9-5 does seem similar to the mid-level sedans is in size where it is on average just a little bit smaller than the rest of them, but closer in size than it is to most of the entry level models.

So... it's not 100% entry level, for sure, but I personally see it closer to entry than mid.

 

What about Volvo? I think if you can include entry level Acuras and Saabs, Volvo could be argued into that list. The S60 (S60R) and the new S80 at least. S40 I think is below you lower limit and competes with the A3, TSX in features and price. But the S60 could be put in entry level. S80 is in midlevel.

Saab 9-3 I think goes in the class below with A3,TSX,S40,BMW 1, etc. I would put 9-5 in entry level. It has the size of a mid level (like CTS), but the general price range of an upper entry level.

I know it isn't necessarily considered a luxury manufacturer, but what about VW? They are usually considered a step up from normal cars. Passats can get awful expensive, and if a Camry based Lexus ES is entry level, could not a well equipped Passat also be considered? I guess its the same dilemma as including nicely equipped Buick/Chrysler/Lincoln products. Altough not really succesful, I think at least the VW Phaeton may belong on the mid level or premium level sedan list.

There are other cars that could be argued onto that list as they posses the features and price of that class. The only omission is having the right "badge". Even the premium level of the brand in general is questionable. Aren't Saab, Volvo, Audi, considered to be more "main stream" than "premium only" in their respective countries? Just Americans consider them "premium only" because they only sell the nicely equipped models here and they are generally more scarce being imports?

 

Are you just comparing price tags and service plans, or should this be something about "value" as well...some domestics offer close to the same features for half the money...does that fact exclude them from being a "Luxury" car...
Maybe Cadillac should up their asking prices $20K or so, which will cover free rentals etc..etc..??
Just trying to get a feel for where this is headed...

 

Kind of sounds like you're saying you're smarter than the average person here, and want to show it.

No personal offense intended.
Bob

 

Yeah, I think it is a good guide for the Official Car & Driver Marketing-Approved Version of how cars stack up against each other. But it's a view that is driven by the spin car companies use on us--and and extremely limited way of looking at things.

Most people don't wake up in the morning and say, "Gee, I think I'm going to buy an entry-level luxury sedan." In reality, people cross-shop Weird Non-Marketing-Approved combos like a Chrysler 300 and Cadillac STS and BMW 3, just because the prices are similar.

And, you know what? In the end, that 300C SRT-8 may end up looking a lot more attractive than the 335i. For some buyers. Your mileage may vary.