Do you really hate Fords or Just love GM??

I was thinking about this and if there is a new F-body in our future then I will be a happy man...but if there isn't then would I go to Ford for the next gen Mustang??? I doubt it. I used to really dis-like Ford products. My Girlfriend drives a 01 Mustang v6 with a manual tranny. It didnt drive too bad and the look is starting to grow on me. Now granted I dont fit in a Stang. (I am 6' 6") so I will never buy one. If there isn't a F5 will you buy a Ford???

barring a 5th gen, ill be taking a good long look at the new mustang...

as ive said before, i think that there isn't much brand loyalty among the younger buyers today. having grown up around a majority of bland cars, this generation as a whole dont really care who makes the car...just IMO:)

Originally posted by WJH'sFormula
as ive said before, i think that there isn't much brand loyalty among the younger buyers today. having grown up around a majority of bland cars, this generation as a whole dont really care who makes the car...just IMO:)

I think you see less brand loyalty because people are more informed, having the ability to draw information and opinions on any topic they chose via the internet. No longer is it just word of mouth from your friends and co-workers, but any and everyone you can find online is willing to tell you what they think about any and everything, and cars are an especially passionate subject. People realize it is a buyer's market and there is no reason for them to sacrifice getting the most bang-for-their-buck for the sake of blind loyalty.

I just love GM, except for there power windows they are great. Fords are built from the ground up with the kind of quality GM power windows have, at least GM has contained it to just the windows.

4 of the 5 GM cars my family has have had multiple power window problems, right now my SS driver side wondow isn't working. The only GM car we have that hasn't had power window problems is my moms car and she never rolls down her windows. No other manufacture problems I can recall.

haha...lol at the power windows

interestingly enough, my 93 suburban with 172k miles has all of its original power windows and every one of them work like new; heh, better than my dad's 02 Z28 p/w's...

I used to prefer American cars over imports, but they gradually discontinued almost everything with a manual transmission and/or a suitable performance chassis (at least what I can afford, anyway). Pretty much all that's left is Mustang.

PS: I figured out how to get around the GM power window problem - My Chevy truck has gone 15 years and 225,000 miles w/o a window problem. It doesn't have power windows. :)

Originally posted by WERM
I used to prefer American cars over imports, but they gradually discontinued almost everything with a manual transmission and/or a suitable performance chassis (at least what I can afford, anyway). Pretty much all that's left is Mustang.

Ditto.

BTW, I wish I had the option of not having power windows, let alone that stupid non-defeatable auto-headlights.

i will be interested in the new mustang when it comes out but i'll wait to see how much the cts will be and then decide.

Ford just isn't as good as GM. As far as the friggin Mustang, I really hate it. They are always ugly and overrated. They are also way overpriced. New Mustang Gt's aren't worth that money. All my friends and some family who ahve stangs always talk shount til its time to run then they just swallow their tongues and walk around feeling stupid from that day on. Makes me feel kinda bad for mustang owners sometimes. But hey, at least mustang owners and lovers still have their cars, and that is one thing they have on us GM/F-body loyals.

From an outsider's perspective: I was born in Greece and lived there till I was nine. All my life I was used to cheap microscopic euro-junk cars. I remember a Citroen or something whose main selling point was it could roll on 3 wheels if it had a flat tire (you actually remove the flat and let it do some hydraulic balancing act on the other 3 wheels and drive it like that).. useless crap like that. All German makes were well represented, even with high-end bodies we're familiar here in the US, as were most Japanese makes (my uncle had a 78-79 Corolla for like 15 years), but 98% of the cars were tiny go-kart coupes..think Geo Metro or Subaru Justy, but uglier, scarier, smaller, less intuitive and mostly no-names. The roads were full of that sort of thing.

So I had NO exposure at all to American cars till I moved here in 84. I'm 27 now and been here for 18 years. I don't know exactly when my tendency towards GM started, but nevertheless it did, almost from the get-go, and it has never changed or decreased. In the 80s, all I knew is that whenever I saw a Cutlass Supreme coupe going down the road, or a Buick Regal coupe, or an F-body or Vette or Fleetwood or GMC truck, B-body, hell, even a G-series van, I felt some unexplained enthusiasm and inspiration watching it existing, like I was beholding a great machine that was built to intimidate me into loving it. It seemed like whoever designed those cars did it just right. Just about any GM. Even tin cans like Chevettes or Citations or Cavaliers or Vegas or those fat & stubby FWD Omegas/Skylarks. Any of those made you want to say "You're an outright piece of junk, but I can't stand to get rid of you".

Lord only knows why, but I NEVER felt that awesome feeling with any Ford.. it just didn't happen. I've driven many Fords and it just seems like the quality and thoughtfullness was just absent, just gone. A friend of mine's 82 Grand Marquis is about the only modern Ford I can remember that was interesting. It was interesting but still failed to capture my imagination. Fords seem devoid of any true character. They just feel cheap.. there's no mystery to them, no wantful soul. Also it seems to me that Ford resale value nosedives really early on. First impressions and perceived functionality / quality are what matter to me, and I just don't see it in Ford. I'm sure there are people who feel the exact opposite from me, but this is just my own experience, and seems pretty consistent over time with few exceptions.

It's funny, in the 80s as a kid, I wanted to own just about any GM product I would see. Today, I can't tell one jellybean apart from the next. I'm thinking that things can't get much worse than right now, as far as dismal styling and deathtrap SUV popularity. But my overall GM passion has not diminished. Don't ask me why, but it's still there, and it's one of those things you're glad you can hang on to as life changes & rolls on. I'm hoping this 1995-2002 period (generally) is the bottom end of the wave and that things will only get better.

W/ the likes of the 04 GTO I'm looking forward to better days and I think I'll be a GM guy for life regardless. All I've ever owned is GM. 5 Pontiacs and 1 Chevy, and totally satisfied w/ 'em.

GT

I really don't like F**d, I mean really. But I used to like GM alot more than I do now, I hope it can be something like that again to me.

Originally posted by kizz
I was born in Greece and lived there till I was nine.



TI KANIS VRE. EISE ELLINAS?

They've got Greeks in NC now. :D

I share your feelings in many ways. I can remember growing up in the '60s and '70s feeling that certain tingle about any Chevy I would see. Whether it was a four door Impala or Chevy van....in some strange way...it completely captivated me.

Those feelings may not be as strong now, but they are still present, if somewhat dormant.

I wish Chevy could re-ignite that "tingle" again.....all it's going to take is some nice cars again. At the top of my list is a new and well done Camaro!

See, I'm kind of the opposite.

I'm a Ford guy. Ford family, always liked Fords.

But the Camaro won my heart over the Mustang, so I now own one.

But luckily, GM has given me every reason to go back to Ford. Thanks, GM!

Originally posted by Z284ever
TI KANIS VRE. EISE ELLINAS?

:D Ellinas pou fovamai exei ksexasei to perisotera ellinhka.. Esei;

18 yrs living here, I've lost like 95% of my dialect but yeah heh.

GT

I come from a GM die hard family. My cousin bought a BMW and was nearly shuned out of the family lol! I remember when I was looking for my car I started looking at 5.0's and my dad told me he wouldnt let me park it in the garage! I guess I was just bread to be a good 'ol GM boy.

Im going to hold out for a CTSv or a reg cab Silverado SS when I graduate from school :)

Hate is such a bad word.

For me abhor, detest, loathe, can't stand, find insufferable, can't bear, dislike, disgust.... those are all better expressions of how I really feel. ;)

for trucks, I have some blind loyalty to GM trucks...


For sedans, I have no brand loyalty... I wouldn't mind an 1996 Imapla SS.. but besides that, whoever can bring the best deal to the table would win me..

For sports coupes.. well.. if there was another Camaro out there, I would look at it first.. but if there is anything that clearly wins out price/performance/feel... I'd get it..

In general, I do not like Mustags mainly cause of the suspension from a 70's fairlane, the 4.6, and how it looks.. Now if the next Gen Mustang improves all of them... then I'd definantly consider it.. but now there the 350Z and whatever else is popping up....

Then again, an used '02 Z06 would come down in price by then soo......

I don't think I'm ever gonna sell/give away my Camaro though.. unless someone gives me a crazy deal on a '02 Z06 and I'm forced to trade.......

When I was a kid, I used to hate GM, Dodge, AMC, and everything else except Ford with passion - it was because my folks had just purchased a new '68 Ford truck and a new Ford car. As a kid, you think your parents know everything. My folks were unbiased for 20+ years - having owned several GM products, Plymouth, and even a Chrysler or two. But after quality probs, failures, etc, they "settled" into the Fords nott overnight but through time.

As I got older (like 12), I started looking at cars I might be saving money for when I turned 16. I discovered there WERE other cars out there besides Mustang. My older sister was driving (a '66 Mustang that was @8 yrs old) and since she was "babysitting" me, I got to hang with some of her friends who were driving Camaros, Pontiacs, Vegas, Chevelles, GTOs, Pintos, Monzas, Mavericks... you name it. She graduted in '74 BTW. These were "the cars" you saw in the HighSchool and Burger King parking lots. I wasn't into doing lots of mechanic work on cars at the time, so looks were EVERYTHING to me then. I fell in love with the cool looks of the Bandit Edition T/A - for a while, that was gonna be my car. The mid '70's Camaro/Firebirds with rear spoilers looked sleek and fast. Even some "old" cars like the early '70s GTOs, the Challenger, Charger R/T, etc were looking good to me.

When D-DAY arrived (that's Driving Day), my dad informed me that a work-buddy was wanting to sell his '81 Mustang notch. He needed cash and was a "motivated seller". Eager for my first car and getting potential help from the folks, I said something to the effect of,"If you think it's a good car - sure. But I'd appreciate it if you help me checkit out." What I didn't know was that my dad had already checked it out, worked out a deal, and just wanted me to "buy in to it". We got a great deal on the car - it was a Ghia model, loaded to the hilt, cruise, A/C, power everything, cloth, woodgrain, EVERYTHING... including an automatic, and a 2.3L 4-banger! Couldn't pull itself out of a shadow when the A/C was on. 90mph top speed off a cliff. But it looked good.

Once me and my friends started driving, it was like a new world of cars was opening up. Imports were starting to get into performance pretty heavy. I couldn't help but be exposed to them. I had friends driving everything... Greek restuarant-owners kid in a BMW 3-series, another in an Isuzu Impulse, a girl friend in a Supra, Celica GT, Bud in a '70 Charger R/T, Scott in a 70ish Orange Plymouth Fury, Jeff in his 80 Nova, another in a burgundy '72 Nova SS, Robert in his '68 Mustang, his dad in a '67 vette 427 BTW, Todd in his CVCC, Tim in a '78 Granada, and others at school in Chevelles, Monte's, EXP's, a Rabbit GTi, a VW Scirocco, a '74 Maverick, and even one guy in a '68 Plymouth Valiant! Since we all hung out, I got to ride in most all these cars - though sometimes involutarilly! I also got to drive some of them. I think this was when I started to develop more of an apprecition for what a car had to offer as opposed to who it was made by.

Now, I still have that same view if not more so. I have learned to appreciate cars for what they are. Personally, I loved the body work of GM cars back in the '80's - more so than Ford. The '86 Monte Carlo SS was twice as good-looking as the '86 5.0 T-bird. The IROC was a better-looking car than the '87 GT IMO. Looks in the '90's are kind of a wash. I like the T/A bodies, loved the sinister Impala SS, but I also liked the Cobras, T-bird SC, and Taurus SHO bodies too.

Both GM and Ford cars are capable of providing years of reliable service if properly maintained - no car will live forever without maintenance. Both make great cars and both make the occasional lemon - the law of statistics is undefeatable. So it gets down to the drivetrain - this is where I have chosen to stay with Ford. It is generally accepted (granted there are exceptions) that Fords are easier to work on. Quick example - Oil change in an '80's IROC 350 vs. an '86 5.0 - Where's the oil filter? IROC - it's wedged up between the block and transmission and you have to have a filter-socket to get it out, oil plugs are also hard to get to and drip oil on crossmember. In the 5.0, you roll under the front, not the side, with a 3/4" wrench, a slip-joint filter wrench, and an FL-1A filter - 3 minutes later your done at the bottom, ready for 5 new quarts. I do 5 to 7 minute oil changes on everything I own. Another example - Try swapping valve cover gaskets on an F4 with an LS1, then try swapping them on a 5.0 or even a 4.6... hmmm, no dash removal required. This matters when you choose to do the work yourself. I recall an article in Mechanical Engineering magazine (a true NERD book, but I get it! :D ) back in '95 or so, where all the readers were polled on where they lived, what kind of home they had, what they drove, etc. in an effort to "profile" the Mechanical Engineer. The most popular car, by some huge amount - like 63% or so - was the Ford Taurus, claiming it was "well-engineered" for utility and maitainability. That says something about style/looks versus utility/practicality in some peoples minds.

I guess in summary, I am trying to say that I really do like both GM and Ford products. I wouldn't think twice about buying a Camaro if the Mustang had gone to Mazda back in '89. Hell, I wouldn't think twice about it today if that was the case. Maybe I've just been lucky with what I've got, and don't plan to change until given a good reason to do so. But GM will be my next stop if I ever leave Ford. Then Daimler-Chrysler after GM. Maybe Mazda next. The last on my list would be a Kia or Daewoo, then up to Toyota, Isuzu, Honda, etc. The German/Euro stuff falls behind domestics but in front of Asians. Funny thing, I have no real options of getting Oz cars - why not? I'd sooner have some Oz cars far before the German ones, if only I could get them here. :confused:

I have enjoyed reading everyone's response in this thread. The only ones that bug me a little are the ones who think Ford is pure sh1+... how do you guys get that? Ford is the #2 maker in the world for Pete's sake, you don't get that by making sh1++y cars. It's OK to choose one over the other because you don't like the styling, or you want more power, or some other personal preference - but don't assume that because you don't PREFER that car, that it is a pile of sh1+ -- that's just immature. They both make great Americans cars and we - the buying public - steer them to give us what we are willing to pay for, be it cheap, expensive, economical, guzzler, ugly, sleek, purple, square, fast, or slow.

As for the GM v. Ford rivalry - it will always be there - at least we better hope so. The rivalry will be more akin to sibling rivalry in the same house, rather than the all-out cross-town rivalry, IMO. But it is changing - the two are now collaborating on everything from auto tranny development to hybrid vehicle technology. THEY have realized that it is now them - GM and Ford - against THE WORLD when it comes to car sales - especially domestic sales. There are many alliances being formed between them to assure that they both not only survive, but hopefully prevail and remain the dominant car manufacturers in the world. So you adamant Ford-haters need to lighten-up a bit... Ford may end up being one of the best friends you've got in the car industry. Just like the US and Russia were staunch cold war enemies from '52 'til '88, and now we're "good friends" again - THINGS CHANGE. :D Food for thought...

Peace,
Proud :cool:

I hated all dumbestics, really:D. Unreliable, non-efficient, and ugly are just a few things that came to mind back then. We'll i never "hated" the mustang but the thought of purchasing one didn't come to mind till 2 years ago. It was all about honduhs for me previously. I remember back in 94 when the new body came out, and remember seeing a clean gorgeous white fox body GT drop top(probably a year or so old then) parked next to a green and then new 94 GT droptop and admiring both. I also remember hearing the rumble of several 5.0's and admiring their tones.

Despite all this, i still never cared to own one. I went to school during when the Honda/Import scene was picking up steam, and it seemed to be the hot trend then. I hopped on the band wagon, dreamed about slapping every ghetto JC Whitney accessory i could get my ricey little hands on, and nearly succeeded in doing so had the funds been really there. I went on to purchase 3 accords and went on to rice out 2 of them. 3-5 years later, i found out the internet, talked with a few stangers ("argued" was more like it), and after riding a friends 99 GT decided to buy one. I never looked back after that day.

I never really cared for GM or any other muscle car after getting my 1st stang (95 5.0 GTS or Lx 5.0 version of the sn95). Some of you might remember some of my earlier posts 1.5 years back:D. I was quite the controversial one. After hanging around this board, i really went on to enjoy GM's as well. Heck, i'm crazy about mopars now.

If it's v8, rwd, sleek, has 2 doors and a small back seat, i'm all for it be it GM, Chrysler, or Ford. I also like some English, Germans and Italians as well as some Japanese.

My dad doesn't give a **** about cars. He's into hardcore golfing, and wishes I was the same :rolleyes:

I got into F-bodies when my brother had an 87 Trans Am. It was the biggest POS ever, and we should've seen it coming with its pretty bright blue NEW paint job, neglected interior, bad running engine, and leaking roof (on a hardtop! :confused: ). When we sold it, we found out it had been turned back 90,000 miles, and the 305 Poncho engine was swapped for a 305 Chevy! I still thought that car was the coolest looking car ever. It had the coolest wheels (Like FlyinLow89's car) (http://www.cardomain.com/id/flyinlow89), and I loved the 4 circle gauges on the interior. I was a freshmen, he was a junior.

His senior year (my sophomore), he got a 95 V6 Camaro, identical options and features to my Firebird in the sig. That thing was awesome, the kids at school loved it (some jealous faguars gave the V6 :bs:, though). When I needed to get a car, I asked my dad if I could look for a Camaro or Firebird, and he agreed. We searched a bunch of neglected POS cars (I looked for Mustangs as well, but there were more POS ones than nice ones). One day, I found my Firebird :)

Then, tragedy strikes: someone totalled my brother's 95 Camaro :(. It was a sad time period in our house. But, with the money he recieved from insurance (not his fault), he bought a 97 red V6 Camaro vert!!! Even better than the older one! For a short time, though, it was cool having a 95 Firebird and a 95 Camaro in the family :cool:

Oh, to answer your question, I just love GM. I never hated Ford, and I don't understand why people do nowadays. Ford vs. Chevy isn't that big now, it's Domestics vs. Imports (well, at least the RX-7s, Supras, you know the drill)

I am eagarly looking forward to a GTO. I can't wait! I want the GTO to be my next car after my Firebird. I will be in college when they come out, however. Who knows, maybe I will land a sweet paying job when I graduate (I can dream, right??) and will buy a GTO. Worst case, I will buy a used GTO.

If I new F-body comes out, it will be hard for me to chose between GTO vs. F-body. Then again, they aren't even out yet!

I don't dislike Ford at all.I just like GM a little more.:cool:
However If they don't come out with an F5 soon I will be looking at used C5's.
It is really weird though....
Considering buying a Vette.
I just turned 30 so I guess I'm getting old enough!:p :D

Our family has gone thru a lot of different brands. I learned to drive in my Mom's Maverick; she also had a Galaxy wagon; and my sister had a couple LTD's way back when. All were nice cars. The Maverick only had an I6, but was still kind of fun to drive, and it had a nice shape IMHO. My Dad had a new F150 until it got stolen :eek:

Since then my family has had Chevys, Buicks, Mazdas, GMC's, Pontiacs, Mitsubishis and Chryslers. I have only owned Chevys or Pontiacs but I wouldn't rule out getting a Mustang someday. I wouldn't buy the current body style, I just don't like it. If the next one looks like the blue concept car picture, it could be a real contender! :) By then though, I'm sure we'll have the first new GTO, plus we'll soon thereafter be seeing some cool stuff from GM! :D

QUOTE]Originally posted by kizz

Lord only knows why, but I NEVER felt that awesome feeling with any Ford.. it just didn't happen. I've driven many Fords and it just seems like the quality and thoughtfullness was just absent, just gone. A friend of mine's 82 Grand Marquis is about the only modern Ford I can remember that was interesting. .... [/QUOTE]


You must have slept through the 80s & early 90s then, because you missed a whole series of Ford's that were a whole hella lot more interesting than a Grand Marquis:

*Ford created a Thunderbird that was actually good looking in their "aero-birds" era. Turbocharged intercooled 4cylinder cars that in their day were not only high tech, but pretty quick.
*Then there were the 'hot-rod' Lincolns. The 5.0 H.O. Mustang powered MarkVIIs that not only were faster than anything in Cadillac's showrooms by a large margin, but was also revolutionary in luxury coupe styling (broke away from the 3 box, notchback styling that was standard luxury car fare till then).
*Also the SVO Mustangs, which progressed into cars as fast as the 5.0 LXs. Again, turbocharged, intercooled, but also very well balenced & with many chassis & suspension upgrades that were not available on 5.0s. Mustang 5.0s also became the performance mainstay of highway patrol departments.
*Then there's the car I owned, the supercharged, intercooled Thunderbird Supercoupe, which in it's 1st 2 years was actually overengineered (I sold mine at 140,000 miles 2 years ago... the rear brakes lasted 127,000 miles (fronts 90,000), and most everything but the head gaskets & the A/C were original....including the clutch! :eek: ) and very high tech for 1989.
*Finally, the Lincoln Mark VIII, which was about as high tech and interesting (though ugly) as you can get. The final editions used HID headlights, and neon taillights, items that other domestic makers are just now getting around to using ('92 t-bird was the 1st to use LED taillights).

As far as quality, I owned an 85 Mustang SS I bought 1 year old & 42,000 miles. From 86-1996, I ran it up to 226,000 miles, and when I sold it, it's heater was shot and the AC needed replacing. Other than that, it was still in exceptional shape. Original engine & drivetrain (only problem area were those "change yearly" front brakes). My SC ran over 140,000 miles, and it was still tight when I sold it. Ford quality back then was totally different than today. I came to Camaro because Ford was going backwards on Mustang's performance, Thunderbird SC was basically the same car I had (except the interior) and was made with alot less quality than my 89......Ford was installing plastic radiators in these things the final few years!

Ford of the 80s was on a roll. I find it pretty odd that you chose a 1982 Grand Marquis as the most interesting Ford in a decade that Ford was hitting nothing but homeruns. :confused: