Woohoo! Total noob asking for help!

Well, I've always been a hardcore performance dude, and never really gave second thought to ANYTHING cosmetic, let alone anything to do with my audio system.

I'm wonderin where i'd learn about in terms of making a good but not too expensive sound system. Something around 200-400 bux. I don't need something ridiculous. I just need something that sounds great over stock and doesn't really get too much in the way in terms of speaker boxes and things like that.

Anyone have suggestions on where I should start looking to figure out these things? Because I HONESTLY have ABSOLUTELY no idea what amps and tweeters and all those special things do, and I really don't feel very smart askin this :rolleyes: but I guess you have to start somewhere :)

And I already got a good aftermarket console (The thing that you put the cd's in and change the volume on) to work off of. Pioneer something but I forget what it is...

It's decent I'm guessin :p

There is a Thunderform box that fits into the driver's side hole near the rear wheel well that can hold a 10" sub. You can get one of those with or without a sub and with or without an amp. I would get one of those, and four new name brand speakers for the doors and rear. You should wire them all directly to the head unit (console). If you're not confident with wiring, then you should get someone to help or have it professionally installed. This is all assuming you have an F-body non-convertible without the Bose system. If you have a vert or the Bose, it may be a little trickier.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-zGR4SY8US7S/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=500&I=236CF1AT45&search=thunderform

Are amps neccessary if you put just a mild 10" sub in there? And I plan on getting all the speakers for the doors and rear speakers.

What about wiring? Do the aftermarket speakers directly plug into the head unit from the wires and plugs already plugged into the old speakers on the doors and rear?

If not, what's neccessary?

Thanks a lot for helpin me out btw :)

You can't run any sub off of the head unit.

Do you have the Bose system? That will make a big difference.

The factory wiring isn't very good. To get the best sound, you should rewire everything. If you get the speakers from Crutchfield, they should come with a harness to plug into the stock wiring, though. You can call them and ask.

You kind of have to decide are you more concerned with bass or do you want you speakers to be louder and cleaner. I would do the speakers and amp them first will really make the sound come alive

Well, I've always been a hardcore performance dude, and never really gave second thought to ANYTHING cosmetic, let alone anything to do with my audio system.

I'm wonderin where i'd learn about in terms of making a good but not too expensive sound system. Something around 200-400 bux. I don't need something ridiculous. I just need something that sounds great over stock and doesn't really get too much in the way in terms of speaker boxes and things like that.

Anyone have suggestions on where I should start looking to figure out these things? Because I HONESTLY have ABSOLUTELY no idea what amps and tweeters and all those special things do, and I really don't feel very smart askin this :rolleyes: but I guess you have to start somewhere :)

And I already got a good aftermarket console (The thing that you put the cd's in and change the volume on) to work off of. Pioneer something but I forget what it is...

It's decent I'm guessin :p

You can do everything for under $400 EASILY......you already have the HU... before I type more you have to decide if you want a sub/box combo setup, or something cleaner and stock looking. This also plays a role (obviously) in how much bass you want......

I don't want too much bass...

Basically I want enough that you get that kick ass feeling in your choppers, but you don't really get a headache from it. I want something loud and clean with a nice big bass punch to it.

The head unit is aftermarket, and from what I can tell, a good head unit. What's the process I need to go about to hooking up the amp and sub to the head unit?

Or...how DOES that work? And I'll most likely go for speakers that are direct plug and play for the doors and rear (like the Crutchfield ones), but the sub and amp are just options i'm playing with in my head.

I don't want too much bass...

Basically I want enough that you get that kick ass feeling in your choppers, but you don't really get a headache from it. I want something loud and clean with a nice big bass punch to it.

The head unit is aftermarket, and from what I can tell, a good head unit. What's the process I need to go about to hooking up the amp and sub to the head unit?

Or...how DOES that work? And I'll most likely go for speakers that are direct plug and play for the doors and rear (like the Crutchfield ones), but the sub and amp are just options i'm playing with in my head.

how much MORE bass than the stock setup do you want?

What model number is the HU you have first? adding an amp to a system is extremely straight forward (sometimes a little different, but still simple)..

You wont find anything truly "plug and play" for everything. When you say doors and rear, are you referring to hatch or rear seat subs? Also...I would not order from Crutchfield - use their sit for finding info/etc....but unless you have extra money, stay away from them (sometimes you will find really good deals though -- if you do order from them, they have great service).

Primarily, you need to decide if you are going to replace rear seat speakers with coaxials, or if you think improved 6.5" subs there will be best/enough (powered by factory amp or aftermarket preferably since you seem to have the budget)...

Do you have the Bose/Monsoon system? -How many speakers?

To be honest, I don't want too much more bass then stock. I don't want something that's ridiculous. I want something that I can pop the truck, keep it open in a park or a school parkin lot, and listen and feel it when standin around, but nothing too big. I mean, I don't need my mirrors re-adjusting themselves from the bass, just something beefier then stock.

When I say doors and rear, I mean the two on both the passanger and driver side doors, and the rears refer to the one that make your buddy go deaf when he sits in the back seat because it's right next to his ear :D The one next to the rear seats. The camaro I have doesn't have the speaker at the back of the truck like some cars do. I only have 4 speakers all around I believe.



Primarily, you need to decide if you are going to replace rear seat speakers with coaxials, or if you think improved 6.5" subs there will be best/enough (powered by factory amp or aftermarket preferably since you seem to have the budget)...

Do you have the Bose/Monsoon system? -How many speakers?

What are coaxials? And I am looking for a sub that really can work off the factory amp, but is there any benefit to having an aftermarket amp installed in the car since you said it's not really that difficult?

And I don't have either the Bose/Monsoon system, I have the super crappy standard radio cassette player with no CD player either. It's a 95 camaro, don't know if that has any relevence or if I've said it earlier.

Also, I'll try to look up the part number or take a picture as it was installed already when I bought the roller, but I might not be able to figure it out because of that.

The speakers aren't powered off seperate amps, they are powered by the HU. Crutchfield has always had the best deals I could find and they include instructions and harnesses for free. Wiring it up yourself is not hard at all. You just need some wire crimpers and patience.

You can get a bazooka bass tube for cheap, but it will be some of the worst bass you can find. You should wire the 4 speakers up to the HU and get an amp and 10" sub for the rear. There's plenty to choose from for both, just go with what you want. Search around Crutchfield and see what you can afford.

The speakers aren't powered off seperate amps, they are powered by the HU. Crutchfield has always had the best deals I could find and they include instructions and harnesses for free. Wiring it up yourself is not hard at all. You just need some wire crimpers and patience.

You can get a bazooka bass tube for cheap, but it will be some of the worst bass you can find. You should wire the 4 speakers up to the HU and get an amp and 10" sub for the rear. There's plenty to choose from for both, just go with what you want. Search around Crutchfield and see what you can afford.
???
Stock Monsoon/Bose are powered by separate amps -- everything is powered by the stock amp besides the component tweeters....I think power is distributed as is (or close to) - 50 watts to hatch, 150 to the front door MID RANGE, and 300 to the subs. The tweeters then, are left for the HU. As long as we are talking about the Monsoon/Bose system...then yes, the ARE powered by separate amps.

Crutchfield RARELY EVER has the best deals.....you are either crazy, or not looking hard enough....you will save A LOT shopping elsewhere (usually). Yes, they come with free instructions...but that's what this board/friends/internet is for - they are not worth the extra money. Many other websites will include the wiring harness for free as well as the dash install mounting kit -- however, as with Crutchfield, this is with the purchase of a new HU -- you have one, so if you don't have the dash/wire kit, that's only about $10 each plus $5 for the antenna adapter.

Do not just wire the 4 speakers to your new HU unless you do plan to replace the rears with coaxials as well....in that case, you will need a separate amp for your sub unless you want to use the factory one.

Do not even search bazooka bass tube (as above poster said, almost everything is better).....you gave a $200-$400 budget and already have a new HU.....you have MANY options, and will be able to put together a really nice system.

To be honest, I don't want too much more bass then stock.

And I don't have either the Bose/Monsoon system, I have the super crappy standard radio cassette player with no CD player either.

Statement #1 was the only reason I brought up the Bazooka tube and that he doesn't want a big box. I already made my recommendation for the thunderform box.

Also, you can clearly see he doesn't have the Bose system, so why do you keep harping on it?

Search around for the best deal always, but I've always found Crutchfield to be the best and they ship very fast. It's kind of like Summit for car parts. You can find cheaper, but they have a good rep and ship quickly.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-dDcgJXbJX7M/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=400&I=1086012SI

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-dDcgJXbJX7M/cgi-bin/prodview.asp?I=107DB650&g=400&s=0&cc=01

Those would be my two choices for the front four speakers.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-dDcgJXbJX7M/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=575P112S4

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-dDcgJXbJX7M/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=575P210D4

You can get those subs and have someone local build you a box.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-dDcgJXbJX7M/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=120&I=108R311A

That's one of the amps I found as well. I really don't know much about amps at all, so you can ask around about what brands and all are the best and how much you need for the sub you get.

Together all that costs $340 before shipping from Crutchfield, which should leave you enough for a box for the sub.

Also, you can clearly see he doesn't have the Bose system, so why do you keep harping on it.
He made no indication that the aftermarket HU was installed. I was thinking that it was a recent holiday gift or something, and he never replied if he has the bose/monsoon setup when you asked.

He may still have it and if he isn't looking for too much bass a pair of 6.5" subs powered by the factory amp might be enough for him...

Haha, ok. He posted he didn't have Bose an hour and a half before you made your post. There is no factory amp that I know of on a stock sound system, but I may be wrong there. Why would he want more 6.5 "subs" when he already has 4 6.5" speakers?

Haha, ok. He posted he didn't have Bose an hour and a half before you made your post. There is no factory amp that I know of on a stock sound system, but I may be wrong there.
ha - alright so he DID give a straight NO answer and info on the car's year... I just looked at recent threads and say your response, and thought it was a reply to mine directly the way that it was worded, and just responded from there not realizing you meant it more as "oh..so you don't have the bose system, and thus no aftermarket amp"

well that simplifies things a lot! I made a post on another thread and have gotten a couple PMs then lately, all regarding Bose and just finished replacing my brother's Bose system so my mind has just been stuck on that crap.

Why would he want more 6.5 "subs" when he already has 4 6.5" speakers?
He wouldn't - I was thinking in terms of the monsoon/bose (stock has components in front, "subs" in rear sails, and full range in hatch --> total of 8 speakers if you count the components as 4 total)

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-dDcgJXbJX7M/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=400&I=1086012SI

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-dDcgJXbJX7M/cgi-bin/prodview.asp?I=107DB650&g=400&s=0&cc=01

Those would be my two choices for the front four speakers.
Good speakers, and prices aren't bad here actually...only up about $10 on average.



http://www.crutchfield.com/S-dDcgJXbJX7M/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=575P112S4

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-dDcgJXbJX7M/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=575P210D4

You can get those subs and have someone local build you a box.
If you go with the 12", shop around - the 2 places I checked had it for $20 less......others were close, but not worth the difference when comparing service (Crutchfield having maybe the best service).



http://www.crutchfield.com/S-dDcgJXbJX7M/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=120&I=108R311A

That's one of the amps I found as well. I really don't know much about amps at all, so you can ask around about what brands and all are the best and how much you need for the sub you get.
good amp, and good price actually -- whenever you see massive price breaks, they are usually hard to find on other sites because they're older/clearing them out/other misc reasons, but regardless, nice amp. Good brands generally are: HiFonics, Phoenix Gold, Precision Power, Kenwood EXCELON line, Elemental Designs, and Inifinity from what I have heard/read.

The subs up there max out at 250 watts RMS for the 10" and 150 watts RMS for the 12".... this is because both subs are DVC and can be wired in parallel, making a 2 Ohm impedance, and the amp up there performs best at 2 Ohm impedances (312 at 2 Ohms). This is not bad however - since the gain on the amp can be adjusted. But you CAN match continuous (RMS) powers without distortion.....the RMS rating is given at BELOW the distortion level...

---

Also, that would be a significant amount of bass (more than the average person needs)...if you aren't looking for that much, look into 4channel amps for about the same price, and maybe a lower power rating on the sub -- and then you can clean up your front speakers as well as power the sub. This also would get you the most out of your money IMO - because it wouldn't be hard to get the power the 10" sub above (or less power, depending on how much) and a 4ch amp for around the same price (or less).



Together all that costs $340 before shipping from Crutchfield, which should leave you enough for a box for the sub.
Depending on the site, you can get boxes for about $25-$35 depending on volume requirements.

Just curious though, how much do custom built enclosures cost? Say for example, just a .75 cubic ft. enclosure for a hatch area?

OK...this is the post I missed, so ignore any post of mine that contains the word Bose/Monsoon
------------------------


When I say doors and rear, I mean the two on both the passanger and driver side doors, and the rears refer to the one that make your buddy go deaf when he sits in the back seat because it's right next to his ear :D The one next to the rear seats. The camaro I have doesn't have the speaker at the back of the truck like some cars do. I only have 4 speakers all around I believe.
Yea...sorry - I was thinking of the 8 speaker setup.



What are coaxials?
Coaxials you may know better as "full range", as opposed to separate component speakers.
These pics will help you see the difference (though there are coax speakers that are actually separate components):
COAXIAL -->
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-vumZtfbUbLE/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=400&tab=essential_info&i=065SX65#Tab

COMPONENTS -->
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fpy9cmikv2O/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=410&I=107SR6500

---

And I am looking for a sub that really can work off the factory amp, but is there any benefit to having an aftermarket amp installed in the car since you said it's not really that difficult? is there any benefit to having an aftermarket amp installed in the car since you said it's not really that difficult? [/QUOTE]
Sorry - no factory amp.. once again, I didn't read. Yes - there is always benefit to aftermarket amps - more power will allow your speakers to play generally louder and more importantly cleaner than "any" head unit can.


Also, I'll try to look up the part number or take a picture as it was installed already when I bought the roller, but I might not be able to figure it out because of that.
Sorry before that post I didn't realized it had been installed already - and after the post I thought that too because I didn't read it. Unless it's really old/odd it should be easy to add an amp to it....if there are no preamp outs, it's no problem either really would just be easier for ya and for us to tell you what you need knowing this.

Best sound for a buck on such a tight budget will give you:
- GOOD COMPONENTS in front (Alpine Type-R, Eclipse, Boston Acoustics $150)
- ditch rears completely , or put some cheap-ass coaxials there
- 10" sub in driver-side stealth box (~ $150 off ebay)
- 2 amps: One 2 or 4 (if you go with rears) channel and mono. (my suggestion - look at ebay for MTX - can't beat their value). Get a D-class for a subwoofer.
- Do a lot of reading, to save a lot you'll be doing all wiring yourself
Good luck!

Best sound for a buck on such a tight budget will give you:
- GOOD COMPONENTS in front (Alpine Type-R, Eclipse, Boston Acoustics $150)
- ditch rears completely , or put some cheap-ass coaxials there
- 10" sub in driver-side stealth box (~ $150 off ebay)
- 2 amps: One 2 or 4 (if you go with rears) channel and mono. (my suggestion - look at ebay for MTX - can't beat their value). Get a D-class for a subwoofer.
- Do a lot of reading, to save a lot you'll be doing all wiring yourself
Good luck!

lol not sure how thats for someone on a budget....doesn't appear he wants that much bass, and a smaller sub better suited for the stealth box especially.... I say stealth box, components up front, cheap coaxials if you REALLY want them (I would block out hi freqs there)....then power the rear sails from the HU, and the components and the sub from a 4ch amp

lol not sure how thats for someone on a budget....doesn't appear he wants that much bass, and a smaller sub better suited for the stealth box especially.... I say stealth box, components up front, cheap coaxials if you REALLY want them (I would block out hi freqs there)....then power the rear sails from the HU, and the components and the sub from a 4ch amp

$150 - sub with the box :) Can be found even cheaper, used, on ebay or "for sale" sections on boards.
Components and a sub will work fine from 4-channel amp, however getting a separate Class-D for a sub will give more flexibility and will be much more reliable solution, as bridged and abused (with bass that can be easy) A/B class is prone to damage. There also a lot of hybrid amps A/B channels + D channel in one case, like MTX Thunder 4405, for example.

$150 - sub with the box :) Can be found even cheaper, used, on ebay or "for sale" sections on boards.
Components and a sub will work fine from 4-channel amp, however getting a separate Class-D for a sub will give more flexibility and will be much more reliable solution, as bridged and abused (with bass that can be easy) A/B class is prone to damage. There also a lot of hybrid amps A/B channels + D channel in one case, like MTX Thunder 4405, for example.
not sure exactly how a mono class D amp is more flexible.....they produce more distortion (but are more efficient..) so you wouldn't really use them on anything besides subs....

$150 sub with the box IMO is not budget.....with that money you can get a really nice sub for around $100 then a box for $25-50 depending on size (or make one), and destroy the stealth box setup.. you pay too much for the custom box IMO..

EDIT: I guess it depends if you are trying to spend the full $400 or as little as possible.

not sure exactly how a mono class D amp is more flexible...

It can be replaced or upgraded later independently from other system, and amp for heights can be upgraded/replaced independently too :) Also, having two amps (full range and bass) with two different internal power supplies is better because of a different patterns of power usage. Fast discharge of internal Pulse-Width modulated power supply capacitors, when bass hits, affects power output and THD of full-range part. And no matter if you wired it with Gauge 0 wire :) - internal power supply FET's have not equal to zero Rds(on). Bottom line - whole system will sound better.
As far as class-D goes, on low frequencies they have THD, better then most of A/B class have (for example JL 500/1 - THD<0.05% @4Ohm 500W RMS), S/N Ratio well over 90db. So they are not producing more distortion on low frequencies at all.
Making a sub box yourself = total respect, when done right will save a lot of $$$ and will sound great.

Check here
http://www.subthump.com/acamarostealth.htm

I have the driver side stealth box with the Elemental Design 11kv2. It sounds great! And is a lot cheaper than that MTX box!!!

Coaxials you may know better as "full range", as opposed to separate component speakers.
These pics will help you see the difference (though there are coax speakers that are actually separate components):
COAXIAL -->
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-vumZtfbUbLE/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=400&tab=essential_info&i=065SX65#Tab

COMPONENTS -->
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fpy9cmikv2O/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=410&I=107SR6500

---



Wow, will those co-axials bolt up to both the doors and the rear seat speakers?


Check here
http://www.subthump.com/acamarostealth.htm

I have the driver side stealth box with the Elemental Design 11kv2. It sounds great! And is a lot cheaper than that MTX box!!!

I like that design a lot! And the idea that it doesn't really take up space is great. With that amp bracket, it'd also be super easy wiring up the sub back there.

But is this too much bass? I said I didn't really need too much over stock, just some moderate pieces :)

It can be replaced or upgraded later independently from other system, and amp for heights can be upgraded/replaced independently too :) Also, having two amps (full range and bass) with two different internal power supplies is better because of a different patterns of power usage. Fast discharge of internal Pulse-Width modulated power supply capacitors, when bass hits, affects power output and THD of full-range part. And no matter if you wired it with Gauge 0 wire :) - internal power supply FET's have not equal to zero Rds(on). Bottom line - whole system will sound better.
As far as class-D goes, on low frequencies they have THD, better then most of A/B class have (for example JL 500/1 - THD<0.05% @4Ohm 500W RMS), S/N Ratio well over 90db. So they are not producing more distortion on low frequencies at all.
Making a sub box yourself = total respect, when done right will save a lot of $$$ and will sound great.
ok, I understand and agree with most all of that - that wasn't what I was trying to say or argue against.

My point was that he is A) on a budget and B) not looking for large amounts of bass. Because of that, not much need for a class D mono amp that can only be used on subs. And yes, they produce more distortion in general...you just cannot hear/detect it as well at lower frequencies (which is fine, they were designed more for efficiency/faster transistor response - not perfect clarity that is unnecessary for low freqs).....so as far as being flexible with his current system.... nothing he can do.

Wow, will those co-axials bolt up to both the doors and the rear seat speakers?
Yes - but I wouldn't recommend THOSE specifically because they are expensive and would be a waste if you aren't amping them separately. I basically just linked the 2 most expensive sets of speakers up there....notice the $750 components..lol You can get good quality speakers from $35 up if you don't shop Crutchfield.