LS1 PCM on LT1.

Been thinking about the possibility of using an LS1 pcm on the LT1. I’ve worked with HP tuners and the LS1 pcm is much more than the LT1. One of the main reasons people go with aftermarket computers is the higher rpm capability, the LS1 is capable of 8k rpm and can be had for much cheaper.
The only obstacle I see is the signal from the camshaft sensor on the LS1, but this can could be had maybe through a converter from the opti sensor.

Craig Moates (www.moates.net) and Geoff Skinner (www.thunderracing.com) were trying to talk me into doing this to my car the other day. The LS1 ECM will do 3 bar Speed Density also.

It can be done, but you need a wizard like Craig to figure the pinouts and wiring. I believe you would have to switch over to a '96/'97 timing chain cover and use the crank position sensor as the pickup, doing away with the optical pickup totally. You might have to switch to indivicual coils also.

Mike

I'm already running the LTCC with LS1 coils. Also have the cloyes double roller timing set which will have to be changed to single roller to make space for the reluctor.
Getting rid of the opti is a win win situation, and I came to know that the 4-7 cam swap would be easier.
I'll eventually go with a solid roller and a single plane and so the LS1 PCM should be much better suited to high rpm and a big single blade TB.
Thanks for the references Mike.

This is a very interesting idea.

The LS1 has both a cam and crank sensor, the former being essentially equivalent to the high resolution pickup in the opti. I believe in the LS1, like the LT1, the crank sensor is used for misfire detection and the cam sensor is used for ignition timing.

So, you'd probably have to retain both sensors to use the LS1 PCM in an LT1 application (or at the very least, the cam sensor).

As engineermike points out, the ignition coil setup is an issue as well. If you weren't opposed to retaining the whole opti, you could electronically "OR" (using diodes, perhaps) the 8 ignition outputs from the PCM into a single coil, and use the opti as the distributor.

The knock sensors are different on the LS1 and would have to dealt with appropriately.

If the car was an A4, that should connect right up provided it is a 1995 or newer 4L60E with TCC PWM.

And, of course, you'd need a shrewd PCM programmer to make the whole setup work.

So far, the biggest obstacle I see is getting the proper crank/cam reference signals to the ECM. You might be able to use the high-res opti as the cam sensor signal and you might be able to use the crank pos sensor for the crank pos input, but you might not have the right number of pulses per cycle in either case.

Ever consider MegaSquirt?

So far, the biggest obstacle I see is getting the proper crank/cam reference signals to the ECM. You might be able to use the high-res opti as the cam sensor signal and you might be able to use the crank pos sensor for the crank pos input, but you might not have the right number of pulses per cycle in either case.

Ever consider MegaSquirt?



Craig ought to come up with a interface to do such a job. he'd make a killing and I'd be glad to take a cut for giving him the idea. ;)

I'd much rather use a LS1 type PCM than a megasquirt. But both are better than the stock LT1 PCM.

I am accually using the 411 LS ECM on my 89 Formula and 89 RS. I am using a Vortec motor timing chain cover with the provision for the crank sensor. Also, my Vortec dis crab style has a cam sensor in it. I did have to convert to a single roller and also get my balance snout machine down 1/8 to make space in bewtween the ring and snout. As for getting the crank and cam in sync, We just had to do a basic crank relearn procedure. I had to use a 96 and up vortec coil, ignition module and 2 4 wire 02's . I had the partial harness built by my friend at EFIConnection.com and are using EFILive for tuning. Drivability and tuning has been a breeze.

Without knowing much about the way that the LS1 PCM is set up, I would bet that the easiest way to get it running would be to use some kind of crank trigger setup. Wouldn't the difference in the number of teeth on the LT1 crank reluctor wheel cause issues otherwise?

Without knowing much about the way that the LS1 PCM is set up, I would bet that the easiest way to get it running would be to use some kind of crank trigger setup. Wouldn't the difference in the number of teeth on the LT1 crank reluctor wheel cause issues otherwise?


No, because you can load in a file from an 01 Express van as a starting point which utilized the LT1 crank ring and its crank sensor. They used the 411 Ecm on those motors which were still a Gen 1 motor. You can accually use any crank sensor from a 96 and up vortec motor.

So the Express vans are basically an LS1-era PCM on a Gen 1 motor with an LT1 crank position sensor?

Sorry if I'm not following... I don't know much about what PCM's were available after the LT1 came out.

Correct. The LS1 ecm also came on certain Year Astro vans as well with the 4.3 When I converted from the Old 89 MAF 165 ecm to the 411, it was night and day differance. Also, you can delete the MAF portion of the 411 ECM and run a custom SD tune solo which I am doing. So far both of my cars are running flawless on this setup.

Been a while... I forget.. . what are the max RPMs attainable via. LT-1 ECM vs. LS-1 ECM? Do OBDII LT-1 ECM's have a higher RPM range? Been 3 or 4yrs since I looked into this. Intersted to see what has changed.

Craig ought to come up with a interface to do such a job. he'd make a killing and I'd be glad to take a cut for giving him the idea. ;)

I'd much rather use a LS1 type PCM than a megasquirt. But both are better than the stock LT1 PCM.

If anyone were to make this available as a complete kit to change the LT1 PCM for an LS1 one, including everything needed such as directions and the LS1 coil packs ect, they would make a KILLING! I know it would require a bit of work, but there is a HUGE market for such a thing! Someone should seriously do this!!

If anyone were to make this available as a complete kit to change the LT1 PCM for an LS1 one, including everything needed such as directions and the LS1 coil packs ect, they would make a KILLING! I know it would require a bit of work, but there is a HUGE market for such a thing! Someone should seriously do this!!

I sat and talked with moates for about an hour yesterday about this. He wants to build an interface box that would plug in between the opti pickup and the ECM to process the signal such that it's LS1 ECM compatible. Then, the biggest hurdle would be wiring up to the correct pins on the ECM. Finally, you would have to muddle through all the gauge calibrations, HVAC controls, security stuff, transmission stuff, etc. . . There's alot of work to be done.

Mike

I sat and talked with moates for about an hour yesterday about this. He wants to build an interface box that would plug in between the opti pickup and the ECM to process the signal such that it's LS1 ECM compatible. Then, the biggest hurdle would be wiring up to the correct pins on the ECM. Finally, you would have to muddle through all the gauge calibrations, HVAC controls, security stuff, transmission stuff, etc. . . There's alot of work to be done.

Mike

Agreed, much time and work would be required for this, however the pay off for someone who successfully completes a plug and play kit for sale to the public would be a great success for both the manufacturer and the public.

Will the express van OS run indicidual coil packs, or are you back to running a dizzy?

I'm not convinced we can dump the opti (dizzy) anyway. We still need a "24X" signal from somewhere for the LS1 PCM. The opti provides two signals, a "360X" signal (high resolution), and a low resolution (don't know off the top of my head what it is). So putting a "pulse conversion" module in between the opti and the PCM that fires one pulse to the PCM for every 15 pulses from the opti would give the PCM the input it requires.

As for the coil setup, this could be an end-user option. If the customer wanted separate coils and they hooked them up this way, the only purpose the opti is serving at this point is to provide the 24X signal. If they wanted to retain the single-coil setup of the LT1, electronically we'd run all the coil outputs together through diodes into the LT1 coil, and this should work fine, also.

The gauge issue listed a couple posts back is not an issue on LT1 cars because the gauge inputs come from sensors directly, and are not routed through the PCM. I'm fairly certain all that would need to be done to make this work is to have the opti pulse converter, and an adapter harness that essentially converts from the LT1 PCM connector to the LS1 PCM connector.

This is a very exciting project!

I'm not convinced we can dump the opti (dizzy) anyway. We still need a "24X" signal from somewhere for the LS1 PCM.

You could, but you would need the OBDII timing cover and crank position sensor. It's 4x and you could condition that as needed. I'd just keep the opti, though, so I don't have to change any hard parts.

low resolution (don't know off the top of my head what it is).

The low res is 4x, but the pulses are not equal in duration.

The gauge issue listed a couple posts back is not an issue on LT1 cars because the gauge inputs come from sensors directly, and are not routed through the PCM.

The Tach and Speedo are both controlled by the LT1 ECM.

Mike

Yeah, I like the opti solution, too, because I have an OBD1 LT1. LOL.

Good points on the speedo and tach. Now I see why this is could be a challenge. LS1 cars have an instrument cluster driven by OBD2 data.

However, it might be OK.

There is a separate tach output signal from the PCM (pin 10, RED connector).

There is also a 4000 pulses per mile output on the LS1 PCM used for the cruise control (pin 50, RED connector).

Yes, one of the work items for this project would be to verify whether the signalling is compatible.

I know this is a somewhat old thread, but only a month or so. I was sent an email about an LT1 in a 96 tahoe, but doesnt want to do alot of wiring. I suggested using an intake from www.lt1intake.com (just dizzy hole, no water passage conversion) and use the crab style distributor, and re wire the vortec harness injector connectors to go to the LT1's injectors.

This approach completely does away with the Opti-Spark. Of course you'd have to have a 96+ LT1 with crank sensor in timing cover.

This should seem a logical easy thing to do with the guys running 411 code from express vans. I think you could get the distributor to fit in the 4th Gen cars too.

Anyone got any input on this approach?

Anyone got any input on this approach?

Most people won't want to tun a distributor in a 4th gen.

I'm considering this or a megasquirt. Som its time to come back to life.

This will be a solid roller, storker turning 7500-8000.

So the Express vans are basically an LS1-era PCM on a Gen 1 motor with an LT1 crank position sensor?

No, the 01-02 Express van engine uses the 96-99 Vortec (L31) crank and cam signals. Let's not get this confused with the LT1 crank signal that is NOT compatible with the 411 PCM.

Coil packs could be used if the LS1 crank signal were being used...and the LS1 uses an uneven pulse (a pattern) where the vortec engine uses an even four pulse signal.

There is no easy way to build a conversion harness for the LT1 due to there being no mating connector to the LT1 PCM connectors (among other hurdles)...however a complete engine harness could be built...when someone tackles the cam/crank signal issue.

EFI Connection might be willing to consider building such a harness once the cam/crank signal issue is resolved. Until then, we're building 411 conversion harnesses for gen 1 engines only.

Mike
EFI Connection

Seems like all you would have to do is make a new optical wheel, with slots to emulate the 1X LS1 cam sensor signal and the 24X LS1 crank sensor signal.

Seems like all you would have to do is make a new optical wheel, with slots to emulate the 1X LS1 cam sensor signal and the 24X LS1 crank sensor signal.


I started going down that road. The LS1 reluctor is an uneven pulse. Remaking the wheel would be a great challenge.

Cutting the wheel would be difficult, but someone has to be making them for Mitsubishi.

The alternative would be an add-on wheel in front of the damper, that could be cut to match the LS1 crank wheel. Something like E'motive makes, but with the specific pattern of the LS1.

http://members.aol.com/InjuneerZZ/images/Photos/sdi01.jpg

Then there's the MSD distributor plug, that they used for their CPC system.... and an interface to that.

http://www.msdignition.com/np2002/images/pn7600_big.jpg

I think I may be able to weld some alumiinim to the stock LT1 timing cover and machine it to hold the vortec crank positon sensor. I'm going to try to locate all the parts and see what I can do at work. I have access to a 4.3L vortec v-6 if that will give me the dimensions I need to locate the crank sensor. I just need the right reluctor wheel.

Security isnt an issue, you just turn it off in the PCM..

Any progress on this? This could be great for the LT1 community. Ignition is one of our handicaps

Again?

I'm working on setup right now, that will use the 96+ LT1 timing cover, with a Vortec 8100 crank trigger wheel inside. This will provide the proper LS1 style 24x crank trigger.

Timing cover will be modified along with timing gear, such that the 1x cam signal is generated. the vortec 8100 has cam siginal on the timing cover, as does 3800 v6 applications.

The two hall effect sensors will need power, ground, and a signal for each. 4 wires, same as stock opti harness.

Engine harness I am building from scratch. however, an adaptor harness could be made to plug a stock lt1 harness into adaptor, then plug into ls1 pcm. Connectors can be bought from Delphi's distributor. Or you could also repin you're connectors. The pins of a LT1 connector are identical to the pins in a LS1 connector.

To tackle the firing order differences, we are simply re-routing the proper injector lead to correct positon on motor, same with coil packs.

this setup will be an open loop drag race setup on vortec supercharged LT1.

I've got an idea about the Opti signal...I read this post from the beginning, It's a great idea, sounds like to get the LS PCM working you need one of the following:

1) Opti signal converter box with reduced output (forget exatly what but about 1/4 less signals on the opti wheel
2) Crank trigger
3) Some way to signal from the OBDII crank sensor.
4) My idea is to modify the existing Opti wheel by simply filling in the "extra" holes on the 360 hi-res side with JB weld or even gasket maker. If all it needs is lower resolution I think you could just count the holes, fill in the required amount, and be done with it rather than building a converter box to do essentially the same thing.

The only other problem that I see with that is the PCM would not know what cylinder to fire.. I believe that's what the low res signal does using the 4 different sized holes. Now using the Opti cap/rotor the distributor could obviosly send the spark where it needs to go but the injectors (on sequential fire) would not know what cyl to fire... so maybe run batch fire to resolve that problem.

For my setup, I dont think it's worth the hassle simply because I'm running under 7000rpm in SD using a 2 bar MAP (with proper PCM adjustments) and it runs perfect with boost reference on stock LT1 PCM.

May be worth the hassle if you need 3 bar or run over 7000rpm.

...For my setup, I dont think it's worth the hassle simply because I'm running under 7000rpm in SD using a 2 bar MAP (with proper PCM adjustments) and it runs perfect with boost reference on stock LT1 PCM...

Same here, with his help. My LT1 runs great with a 2 bar SD OL tune on the stock ECM.

I can assure you it will run better with the ls1 PCM. Specially if you have a big cam in it.

The ls1 also has two knock sensors... I have wanted to do this FOR A LONG WHILE.. i see no point in using the truck calibration because it doesn't use the 8coils.

If you guys already have a 24x signal from a crank sensor of the 8100 series then we are almost done. We need a cam signal from the opti 2x and that is it for it to fire up WITH the 8 coils. Calibration should be no issues...

Subscribing.

No, the old vortec truck 5.7 that is a 8.1L engine.. totally different.

It was said he was using an older vortec truck calibration that used the same 0411 pcm.

what sensors does the ls1 have that the lt1 doesnt? crank positon and a cam position? i am thinking about getting a ls1 computer and just adding the 2 sensors. can this this work?

the main beinfit for me would be coil on plug, better tuneability, should run my dash, should run most polution controls ect..

Yes except you'd have to grind the cam switch cylinders 4 & 7, but aparently it's worth it cuz that alone should gain you some power according to all the HP magazines.

why would i have to grind the cam diffrently? could i not just hook the injector and ingniton wiring up diffrently to reflect these changes?

also what software would be best to use on a 2001 ls1 computer i would run a 2 or 3 bar map.

why would i have to grind the cam diffrently? could i not just hook the injector and ingniton wiring up diffrently to reflect these changes?

also what software would be best to use on a 2001 ls1 computer i would run a 2 or 3 bar map.

efilive or tunercat...

Has anyone other than Mkos1980 come anywhere near close or even connected the wiring on this project?

No you can't just wire them differently well you could if you ran open loop otherwise no, aside from wiring the two coils differently as well, if you just switch injectors than when the pcm will add fuel to the right side, it will actually be adding some to the left since it doesn't know that 4/7 are switched.

what if you hooked both banks up to a wideband simulated narrow band output? that way it would treat the whole engine as one bank.

it may not be as cost effective as i first thought after looking into it a bit..

i would need a
99 plus ecu and harness ~ 400$
tuning software ~500$
custom cam ~300$
crank reluctor wheel of ls1 ~50$
tons of unlisted stuf ~????$

you might be into aftermarket ecu territory soon.


you could probbably do it cheaper if you could find a damaged harness..

Its not a matter of cost effective... its a matter of a factory like system... No aftermarket computer can come close to the level of tuning you can achieve with this (other than an 8k motec, which makes this VERY cost effective)

so how would this work whith just one knock sensor hooked to both imputs and one simulated o2 hooked to both o2 imputs? would that solve the cam issue? or would you still need to get a custom cam?

No you can't just wire them differently well you could if you ran open loop otherwise no, aside from wiring the two coils differently as well, if you just switch injectors than when the pcm will add fuel to the right side, it will actually be adding some to the left since it doesn't know that 4/7 are switched.

i have been doing lots of research on doing this and i think i can make it work..

efi live lets you set what bank the injectors are on. you wire them according the the firing order and assign them to the correct bank..

i should be getting in a harness, coils and 2 knock sensors in a week or so. now i need to find a 411 pcm flashed with ls1 6 speed program and vats disable.

i don't want to buy efi live until i verify it will fire up.. i may end up buying and reselling if my plan doesnt work..

What ever happened to this? anyone got to do this in the end?

Thx

i have everything needed but the 411 with vats deleted.. where is the best place to get this?

you can get them on ebay

So what is actually needed here?

Can the ecm be any 411 or does it have to be from the express van...which model, 1500 3500 etc
So a vortec crank wheel and crank position sensor can be used on the crank and the 96/97 front cover?
What wiring harness do you need? Could you just repin the LT1 and add a few wires for the CPS and the knock sensor? Or would you be better of finding an LS2 harness... that's some money from what I've seen.

CPS where is this signal coming from?
could you just weld a plate onto the front of the LT1 front cover and mount a LS2 CPS to it.
Then machine a wheel that bolts onto the stock LT1 cam gear with the rise on it like the LS2 cam gear to trigger the CPS? emachine shop should be able to do this but it would be a bit pricey.

Does anyone know how close the CPS has to be to the wheel to work?

That really seems like everything other than what is going to happen to the other knock sensor?

Why hasn't someone done this?
Am I missing something?

you can get them on ebay

So what is actually needed here?

Can the ecm be any 411 or does it have to be from the express van...which model, 1500 3500 etc
So a vortec crank wheel and crank position sensor can be used on the crank and the 96/97 front cover?
What wiring harness do you need? Could you just repin the LT1 and add a few wires for the CPS and the knock sensor? Or would you be better of finding an LS2 harness... that's some money from what I've seen.

CPS where is this signal coming from?
could you just weld a plate onto the front of the LT1 front cover and mount a LS2 CPS to it.
Then machine a wheel that bolts onto the stock LT1 cam gear with the rise on it like the LS2 cam gear to trigger the CPS? emachine shop should be able to do this but it would be a bit pricey.

Does anyone know how close the CPS has to be to the wheel to work?

That really seems like everything other than what is going to happen to the other knock sensor?

Why hasn't someone done this?
Am I missing something?

all 411's are the same. they are just flased diffrently.. i dont think you want to use the express van flash as its not set up for indiviual coils.

i will do this swap.. the only problem is that i am running out of money from my twin turbo project. also my friend with access to a laser/punching machine moved on to a new job.. now i will have to pay a premium to get some wheels cut out..

my plan is to use a camaro ls1 harness in a lt1 car. then mount a external crank sensor, and modify the opti for cam sensor.

What ever happened to this? anyone got to do this in the end?

EFI Connection was able to get the LT1 running with coil per cylinder using a 2002 Camaro/Firebird PCM and calibration in July. Click here for a video of the engine running on the test stand. (http://www.eficonnection.com/coilpercylinder/LT1/lt1_first_good_run.mpg)

http://www.eficonnection.com/coilpercylinder/LT1/lt1_top_view.jpg

We have one LT1 running with this system and two gen1 small block engines (with Ram Jet 350 intakes and electronic throttle) running with this system. We're currently working on a final 24x crank reluctor design and a better way of getting the cam signal from the LT1 timing cover.

Our focus lately has been to get one of the Ram Jet 350 engines on a dyno for final testing (in the upcoming weeks if all goes as expected). We're using an S10 for the prototype and dyno work. The S10 is equipped with the following...

- 1987 5.7L L98 Engine (bottom end)
- Ram Jet 350 Intake Manifold
- GM Performance Parts Vortec Heads
- LT4 Hot Cam
- 1.6 Rockers
- LS1 Corvette Electronic Throttle
- 4L60E
- All Wheel Drive (a 93 Typhoon drivetrain)

The 24x crank signal is coming from within the Vortec timing cover. The 1x cam signal is coming from a Vortec distributor.

http://www.eficonnection.com/projects/S10Wildside/images/web03.jpg

http://www.eficonnection.com/projects/S10Wildside/images/web01.jpg

http://www.eficonnection.com/projects/S10Wildside/images/engine01_640x480.jpg


If you want to keep up with our progress on the availability of the components to use this system, please email mike@eficonnection.com and request to be added to the email newsletter.

Mike
EFI Connection
http://www.eficonnection.com

So the 411 ECM should have the same pinout as shown here?
http://www.ls2.com/boggs/torques/enginetorques.htm

I'll start working in Emachine shop and see if I can come up with a wheel design to bolt on top of the cam gear for a reasonable price. This seems fairly straight forward from what I can tell.
I've got a spare LT1 harness I can repin for the new ecm and adding some connectors for the crank and cam sensor should be easy enough. A bit tedious though.

If anyone has any measurements they can share on the LS2 cam gear ridge post them up.

I remember seeing on this forum someone already did something like this using the opti back plate and shaft...

I haven't been able to find the pictures.

If you are in need of a laser to cut wheels or something else I can make it happen. I would need the details and preferably a design in AutoCad. A good firend of mine has 2 CNC lasers at his shop and cuts stuff for me all the time. I would love to help this project, either way hopefully something is availible by the time have my camaro ready to assemble.

If you are in need of a laser to cut wheels or something else I can make it happen. I would need the details and preferably a design in AutoCad. A good firend of mine has 2 CNC lasers at his shop and cuts stuff for me all the time. I would love to help this project, either way hopefully something is availible by the time have my camaro ready to assemble.

sent you a pm

This is great news for the LTx crowd.... :)

subscribing

subscribing

same here!

Wrong thread!

subscribing, I may not need to go carb to get higher RPM's I was looking for, and I didn't want to spend the money on a fast or other piggy back setup...

We've just about finished testing with the S10...

http://www.eficonnection.com/projects/S10Wildside/images/RamJet_in_Engine_Bay01.jpg

Dyno Tune
Done. Smooth pulls resulting in 311hp/334tq.

Drive by Wire
Runs just like a newer vehicle.

Integrated Cruise Control
Instant response, no more lag (like the vacuum type systems).

Closed Loop
Works just fine.

24x Reluctor Availability
Available at http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/coil_per_cylinder.aspx.

http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/images/24x_Reluctor_Single_Roller_Front_300h.jpg

LT1 Availability
Almost. We're finishing up testing for the cam sensor pieces. More details when this is done.

LT1 Conversion Harness
A complete plug and play replacement to the original LT1 engine harness. (prototype pictured)

http://www.eficonnection.com/coilpercylinder/LT1_Coil_per_Cylinder_94_F-Body_Harness_Prototype.jpg

Mike
http://www.eficonnection.com

Is that harness sold already?????

Wow... This is cheaper than buying a megasquirt and DOING IT YOURself.. .NICE WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IWANT ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have just ordered my LT4 XD Timing chain.

so how do we get one?

so how do we get one?
http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/contact_us.aspx

I cant wait 'til this becomes available :) Wonder what problems they ran into with the 24x reluctor wheel?

what do you mean problems?? what problems??

what do you mean problems?? what problems??Highlander, you get Mike's email updates, don't you. ;)

Here's what eficonnection sent me in an updated email.

24x Reluctor Testing
Our testing was not successful with the custom 24x reluctor. While the 24 tooth pattern on the custom reluctor matches the LS1 PCM crankshaft signal requirement, we were unable to receive the required 24 pulse signal. We have studied our results and came up with a few different approaches. Until we have a working prototype, the reluctor is in a development status.


EB

i thought they had this working?? how old is that email??

couple a days

i thought they had this working?? how old is that email??

We have the system working in three engines using modified GM reluctors. We're coming up with a cleaner reluctor designed to fit the small-block and LT1. The modified reluctor will not fit the LT1 engine (another reason why we're coming up with a new one). We're close to a solution, making changes to our reluctor, and will soon retest.

Mike
EFI Connection

We have the system working in three engines using modified GM reluctors. We're coming up with a cleaner reluctor designed to fit the small-block and LT1. The modified reluctor will not fit the LT1 engine (another reason why we're coming up with a new one). We're close to a solution, making changes to our reluctor, and will soon retest.

Mike
EFI Connection

Anyway to make it work with a double roller timing chain??? Will the PCM still work in a 98-02 car?

Anyway to make it work with a double roller timing chain??? Will the PCM still work in a 98-02 car?What was the OEM PCM in the vehicle?

What was the OEM PCM in the vehicle?

I'm putting my LT4 into my 99 T/A, and this would make it a cake walk, vs trying to get my 95obd1 pcm to work with the 99 car. Plus Im boosted and the LS1 pcm is wayyyy better

Anyway to make it work with a double roller timing chain??? Will the PCM still work in a 98-02 car?

I'm putting my LT4 into my 99 T/A, and this would make it a cake walk, vs trying to get my 95obd1 pcm to work with the 99 car. Plus Im boosted and the LS1 pcm is wayyyy betterThe 24x reluctor under development by EFIConnection is in regards to a single roller for the Gen 1 and LTx, as well as a reluctor for the Gen 1 only double roller. They (all three) were briefly offered for sale. However with the recent glitch found in testing, all three have been put on hold pending further development.

I don't even want to know why you are considering swapping from the LSx to the LTx.

Edit: OK, so maybe you'd rather keep the existing FI hardware in lieu of changing to hardware to accommodate the LSx. But still....

The use of the LSx variety of PCM is contingent on the development of the reluctor. Attempting to adapt the LTx Opti signal to the later PCM would be swimming upstream against a headwind right after/below the falls. If one were to insist on using an ignition in the rear as an alternative, then why not go to a Gen 1 assembly? You're merely be giving up the overzealous cooling of the existing reverse cooling system.

Bottom line... Less grief to get the 24x reluctor sorted out.
Hang loose and patience! It is in good hands with Mike working on the solution.

Anyway to make it work with a double roller timing chain???
The 24x reluctor, yes it will clear the double roller chain. BUT it is impossible to fit the timing cover. We've looked very closely at this (and wasted time and money trying) to find that it is impossible to use an LT1/LT4, double roller timing chain, and ANY type of crankshaft reluctor. There is not enough room. I promise you, it can not be done without a redesign of the timing cover.

Will the PCM still work in a 98-02 car?
Absolutely, your LT4 engine swap into an LS1 car would be fairly straight forward.

The 24x reluctor under development by EFIConnection is in regards to a single roller for the Gen 1 and LTx, as well as a reluctor for the Gen 1 only double roller. They (all three) were briefly offered for sale. However with the recent glitch found in testing, all three have been put on hold pending further development.
There are actually only two different reluctors.
- 24x reluctor for single roller chain small-block Chevy and LT1
- 24x reluctor for double roller (or single roller) chain small-block Chevy ONLY

Hang loose and patience! It is in good hands with Mike working on the solution.
Thank you. This is going to happen, but R&D sometimes takes time...and this is taking time. We've put an incredible amount of time into this to come up with a very nice product. Hang tight, it's coming.

They were briefly offered for sale. However with the recent glitch found in testing, all three have been put on hold pending further development.

They were never for sale (never an option on the website for purchase), but we were talking with those who are interested in the conversion and getting a count for the first purchase quantity from the machine shop.

We won't sell these until we're satisfied with testing. Our 24x CNC reluctor "works", but it's not quite right. We'll get it right and likely very soon.

They were never for sale (never an option on the website for purchase), but we were talking with those who are interested in the conversion and getting a count for the first purchase quantity from the machine shop.Hmmm, $250 and $275 respectively. Let's reread that headline again. "24x Reluctor _Pricing_ is Available" (my word emphasis). OK, my error for ass-uming that meant reluctor itself was actually available. :)
There are actually only _two_ different reluctors.
- 24x reluctor for single roller chain small-block Chevy and LT1
- 24x reluctor for double roller (or single roller) chain small-block Chevy ONLYYea, with the only two prices noted above, I knew that. I've just lost the ability to count. ;)
Hang loose... hang tight. :)

Weblinks and pages all dead now.

its looking to be well over 1000$ by the time you buy the reluctor, sensor, cover, cam sensor, and harness, coils, ecu, ect...

at this point you may be better off to go after market or mega squirt.

i guess its still decent if you don't have the know how to do mega squirt..

I would really consider this if it is affordable

I was told i'm on the mailing list... but haven't received an update

I was told i'm on the mailing list... but haven't received an update

Please email me again at mike@eficonnection.com and I'll be sure you're on the list.

its looking to be well over 1000$ by the time you buy the reluctor, sensor, cover, cam sensor, and harness, coils, ecu, ect...

at this point you may be better off to go after market or mega squirt.

i guess its still decent if you don't have the know how to do mega squirt..

Has anyone dealt with a fast??? electromotive??? megasquirt??? MicroTech?

I have and to be honest the LS1 PCM is far superior than anyone of them. None of them support a true coil per cylinder w/o any additional systems (Edis) to play with.

On top of that the LS1 PCM has a lot more resolution, the custom operating systems, coupled with the Road Runner, simply make the LS1 PCM the best system out there at the moment. You know how good it is to be able to control ACCURATELY an A/C System with a huge cam on a 350??? That is really tough with ANY aftermarket computer.

Last night we had a mustang that did 915rwhp with an SDS ECU... yeah it ran... But I wish you had seen a video of it... before it comes on to boost the car simply ROCKED like a mad horse.

Using the FAST on the LT1 you still have to use the optical unit. You are still prone to many of the "Failures" of it and you would still have to use add on systems to use the Coil per cylinder as I said above.

Many people say affordable??? I Have spent a LOT of money on trying to make the LT1 PCM run my car in a factory way with all I have in it. So far I have failed.

I deal with megasquirts on a daily basis... Its a nice cheap computer... but its nowhere near as powerful as the LS1 PCM.

i understand the benefits of the ls1 computer and i plan on running one in my car.. i don't however plan on buying a kit as i already had a custom wheel designed before hearing of efi connection, i will be trying it out shortly..

if it all fails then i will be spending some money as i already have 2 harness, computer, 2 sets of coils, efi live.

i plan on making a adapter harness that i can plug my lt1 harness into the ls1 computer.. i will scab the connectors out of a old lt1 computer i have laying around. it will have a add on harness for the coils and second knock sensor.

You will still need the cam sensor which eficonnection has readily available.

no i shouldn't need anything from eficonection... if it works i will post pics..

I Have spent a LOT of money on trying to make the LT1 PCM run my car in a factory way with all I have in it. So far I have failed.

I've been holding off asking this question for a long time now,

What's the problem with the stock LT1 PCM? if your under a certain RPM? I have mine referencing boost with a 2 bar sensor and running great, total cost came to ~$30

As far as the Opti I was having repeated failures due to the rotor screws, so I dissassembeled a new one and re-applied new locktite to the screws (on every opti, one of the two rotor screws had minimal to no loctite from factory).

Not trying to start an argument I just dont see all the extra work and money for something that can be done much easier and cheaper?

You hit the nail right on the head... maybe for 570rwhp you have no issues. but when you start seeing a lot more boost and a lot more power, the better the resolution the better fueling you will have. Not only that... Ignition is MUCH stronger than our stock style system. You can have bigger gaps on spark plugs and you can have a smoother idle. NOt only that but air control for big cams is a huge concern for me. With the possibility of adding ETC to the system, honestly, you will be able to have a bigger cam that you could have ever dreamed of for street use and having nice street manners.

I mean... I wonder then.. why did gm went though all the trouble when all their research and development for this type of system AND was already payed? only thing needed for the LS1 car was to design the timing cover to fit another opti unit... They chose to do away with it... i wonder why... Maybe I think like you do, and it was a bad choice to design such a system when the one they had was cheaper, payed for and readily available. IN the end if they had made those decisions to keep the cheaper systems maybe they wouldn't be bankrupt? [/sarcasm]

No matter how you see it, put it, its a better system. If you choose to believe otherwise because its more expensive that is your way of justifying yourself not spending the money. IN fact, before this system I was going to do away with the whole setup and put in an lsx engine just to have a decent fuel injection system.

Even further I know that someone is modifying an LS pcm to be able to use low Z inj... think of the possiblities.

no i shouldn't need anything from eficonection... if it works i will post pics..
What are you doing for cam signal then?

What are you doing for cam signal then?

wouldnt you like to know :devil:

like i said if it works i will post details.. heck if it doesnt i will post details..

wouldnt you like to know :devil:

like i said if it works i will post details.. heck if it doesnt i will post details..

No... I really wouldn't...

I'll have mine running before you do.

good for you.. its winter up here i dont need it running untill spring..

anyways good luck with buying some parts. i perfer to experiment myself...

Thank you... its always summer the whole year here... Its what I like the most about here... I have experimented my fair share of things with this setup and its finally getting together. Then to my dyno and pumping some serious HP...

You hit the nail right on the head... maybe for 570rwhp you have no issues. but when you start seeing a lot more boost and a lot more power, the better the resolution the better fueling you will have. [/sarcasm]

No matter how you see it, put it, its a better system. If you choose to believe otherwise because its more expensive that is your way of justifying yourself not spending the money. IN fact, before this system I was going to do away with the whole setup and put in an lsx engine just to have a decent fuel injection system.

Even further I know that someone is modifying an LS pcm to be able to use low Z inj... think of the possiblities.


I think your missing the point... GM did it in PRODUCTION cause it's cheaper since wait.. they redesigned the whole motor..

I have $30 in mine, runs great. You have ?? in yours? You even said all this $$ and still dont have it running.

How will LS PCM improve idle on a bumpy cam? Also still cant use 02's with large cams.. GM doesnt use 02's on any of the large cammed show cars. I imagine they would if they could. PCM has nothing to do with it.

Better fuel fueling? What's better about 11.8AFR +/- 0.1 - 0.2afr?

Yes, you nailed it on the head.. trying to Justify all the extra time/money with the LSx PCM if you allready have a LTx PCM and just need some tuning knowledge.

Please post specifics not just "IN fact, before this system I was going to do away with the whole setup and put in an lsx engine just to have a decent fuel injection system" <--- this is basically saying nothing or I dont know what Im doing. Sorry, you added the [/sarcasm]

MUCH Better IAC/Idle Algorithm
Throttle Control Makes easier for LARGER Cams (capability in the future?)
8 Coils
over 7krpm
More ignition power with control of dwell Time
Control of NOS and BOOST up 285KPa Natively
More resolution in VE Tables and Timing tables (specially when getting into boost)
TPS VE
PE vs IAT
Up to 12Hz MAF table
A/C Adjustments
IAC Compensation for various loads on the engine
Lean Cruise
Two Step/Valet Mode
RoadRunner / RealTime ECU
No more Opti, Failures and Drawbacks
EFILive (BEST SCANNER AND PROGRAMMER AVAILABLE)
Better Transient Fueling
4L80E support
Engine Protection Mode (good to have when you have a EWP)
Less Likely to damage an ECU with programming sessions


The list is endless... AFR is just a part of the equation. Maintaining a good AFR can be done with the most simple computer like a haltech and such, but being able to have such a nasty setup for daily use, its really an accomplishment.

Essentially if you put in a 2bar map sensor (let alone a 3bar) on the stock LT1 you loose a lot of resolution on both timing and fuel tables. With the TPS VE table you can have a better fueling for super big cams. Open loop is SO much better with the LS1 PCM than the LT1 PCM it's not even funny.

I mean why can't people see the benefits. Sure for a cam only car or mild setups you do not need this, but when you are pushing boundaries on everything, you start to need quite a few things.

The most important thing here, power wise is the ignition system.

Suscribing..

This would be a great change, for the LTx crowd. Something like this takes a little time to iron out all the bugs..once that is done, it'll be golden. :)

Good luck guys.

MUCH Better IAC/Idle Algorithm
Throttle Control Makes easier for LARGER Cams (capability in the future?)
8 Coils
over 7krpm
More ignition power with control of dwell Time
Control of NOS and BOOST up 285KPa Natively
More resolution in VE Tables and Timing tables (specially when getting into boost)
TPS VE
PE vs IAT
Up to 12Hz MAF table
A/C Adjustments
IAC Compensation for various loads on the engine
Lean Cruise
Two Step/Valet Mode
RoadRunner / RealTime ECU
No more Opti, Failures and Drawbacks
EFILive (BEST SCANNER AND PROGRAMMER AVAILABLE)
Better Transient Fueling
4L80E support
Engine Protection Mode (good to have when you have a EWP)
Less Likely to damage an ECU with programming sessions




I guess I still have to say I dont see big benefits here since none of the above would improve anything for me at this point.. resolution is proving not to be a problem for any of us, yes it would be nice to have more but it works fine, idle's fine, cruises fine, all that jaz. Over 2bar and 7K the problems come in.

If the LSx PCM could change settings in realtime now that's a huge plus, also if it had the capability to read a WB02 and adjust fuel that would also be enough for me to justify the move since that alone would make life easier.

Lean AFR on cruise creates more surging with a cam maybe not noticble with automatic.. cant see how most of th stuff is worth it, no problems with Transient fueling, or anything else for that matter on the LT1.

For me everything comes down to cost effectiveness, if I can do the same thing for free or cheap then I'm all for it vs spending mad cash and not having much to show for it.

Take a look at my dyno vid and tell me if you can really expect "better idle/transient fuel" out of it... it's as crisp/responsive as any motor can be... idling and throttle blipping in there, this was running on the lean side @ WOT I know but now it's at ~11.9.

The LS1 PCM swap is not for everyone. The LS1 PCM was attractive to me because of...
- 4L60E support
- Drive by Wire Throttle
- Integrated Cruise Control
- EFILive tuning and data logging
- Real Time tuning (with RoadRunner PCM)

Now my starting point was not an LT1 engine (for the S10 test vehicle with RamJet 350).

The last two in your list, is what is keeping my attention..:)

My main to go with this setup where

Efilive
No Damage to PCM when programming
8 Coils
Road Runner
Perfect 3bar boost.
TPS VE Table
And hopefully Low Z Inj mod in the future.

WIth my LT1 PCM I did 607rwhp. I had no issues whatsoever, I did have a 6btm and I had a superfueler with 3 96# injectors on the thorttle body to aid with boost... I achieved a flat AFR with it. I had no surging, no bucking. No nothing. It was all in pump gas. I know what the LT1 PCM is capable of. I have tuned many of them. Then again, with the LS1 PCM things are much more controllable NO risk whatsoever of damaging a PCM and RoadRunner, simply make it so much better for tuning.

I do get your point that if you can do it cheaper why spend the money, no one is arguing about it. But when you start pushing the limits, specially going over 15psi boost, then things start to get complicated. That aside, with the better ignition you can make more power with the same setup on the same car.

570rwhp with 7psi are very good. I did 555rwhp with 7psi.

I guess I still have to say I dont see big benefits here since none of the above would improve anything for me at this point.. resolution is proving not to be a problem for any of us, yes it would be nice to have more but it works fine, idle's fine, cruises fine, all that jaz. Over 2bar and 7K the problems come in.

If the LSx PCM could change settings in realtime now that's a huge plus, also if it had the capability to read a WB02 and adjust fuel that would also be enough for me to justify the move since that alone would make life easier.

Lean AFR on cruise creates more surging with a cam maybe not noticble with automatic.. cant see how most of th stuff is worth it, no problems with Transient fueling, or anything else for that matter on the LT1.

For me everything comes down to cost effectiveness, if I can do the same thing for free or cheap then I'm all for it vs spending mad cash and not having much to show for it.

Take a look at my dyno vid and tell me if you can really expect "better idle/transient fuel" out of it... it's as crisp/responsive as any motor can be... idling and throttle blipping in there, this was running on the lean side @ WOT I know but now it's at ~11.9.

With the stronger ignition you can make more power @ 7psi boost.

My main to go with this setup where

Efilive
No Damage to PCM when programming
8 Coils
Road Runner
Perfect 3bar boost.
TPS VE Table
And hopefully Low Z Inj mod in the future.

WIth my LT1 PCM I did 607rwhp. I had no issues whatsoever, I did have a 6btm and I had a superfueler with 3 96# injectors on the thorttle body to aid with boost... I achieved a flat AFR with it. I had no surging, no bucking. No nothing. It was all in pump gas. I know what the LT1 PCM is capable of. I have tuned many of them. Then again, with the LS1 PCM things are much more controllable NO risk whatsoever of damaging a PCM and RoadRunner, simply make it so much better for tuning.

I do get your point that if you can do it cheaper why spend the money, no one is arguing about it. But when you start pushing the limits, specially going over 15psi boost, then things start to get complicated. That aside, with the better ignition you can make more power with the same setup on the same car.

right on, I was just trying to get a feel for what the extra cost brings, I didnt realize with additional hardware/software you could make the LS1 PCM realitime "auto tuning" that is basically what you pay the big dollars for, so yup it's pretty sweet.

Next question (you knew this was coming), to get it all running with realtime logging, adjusting, fuel mapping, what do you think the cost comes to, just to compare to the $3500 aftermarket systems?

I can't answer specifically that question as I had most of my setup built. Eficonnection did the harness, cam sensor housing and reluctor ring... YMMV.

The only thing it doesn't do is the wideband, but iwth the LC1 cable you can actually program any output for the stock PCM to use as you desire...

Now with EFILIVE, RR and a wideband... it will autotune itself. I have done it many times with corvettes and its such a sweet setup, SPECIFICALLY when you change Intake manifolds which is what takes the most to tune. It should be cheaper than $3500.00 for everything including the $800 that the roadrunner costs, but I am not really sure.

We shipped the first prototype LT1 package today. This will be installed on a 94 Z28 with Vortech supercharger. Pictures will be made available at http://www.eficonnection.com when available.

This is the new LT1 engine harness:

http://www.eficonnection.com/coilpercylinder/LT1_cpc_harness_final.jpg

This is a plug-and-play harness for the f-body. The estimated price for these harnesses will be about $800.00. Keep in mind this is not a generic, stand alone, type engine harness that you would have to splice or graft into your vehicle. Remove original LT1 engine harness and replace with new LT1 engine harness for LS1 PCM control. You can not get this type of harness for ANY aftermarket ECU.

Retained functionality:
- Fuel Enable (VATS)
- A/C System
- Canister Purge Solenoid
- AIR Pump Control
- Oxygen Sensors
- Fuel Pump Test/Prime
- Oil Level Sensor
- T56 (Skip Shift, Reverse Lockout, and Backup Switch)
- MAF (with adapter for LS1 5 wire MAF)
- All other obvious sensor and injector wiring

Removed functionality (not supported with LS1 PCM):
- EGR (LS1 PCM does not support vacuum actuated EGR valve)
- Traction Control

Added functionality:
- LS1 PCM
- Coil per Cylinder
- Second Knock Sensor (optional)
- LS2 Flat Response Knock Sensors (included for testing LS2 knock sensors)

Next question (you knew this was coming), to get it all running with realtime logging, adjusting, fuel mapping, what do you think the cost comes to, just to compare to the $3500 aftermarket systems?

Estimated Pricing:
$800.00 Plug-and-Play Replacement LT1 Engine Harness
$275.00 24x Crank Reluctor
$100.00 24x Crank Sensor
$200.00 LS Coils (set of 8)
$75.00 LS1 PCM (used - street price)

That's $1,450.00 so far.

Add to that the cost of the cam sensor, housing, and target. Let's speculate those will be under $300.

You'll need to come up with coil brackets and a coil harness. (EFI Connection makes coil harnesses and sells the pieces to build your own)

You'll also need a 96-97 LT1 timing cover for the crank sensor.

You'll also need a tune.

So it looks like the 24x LT1 conversion may be in the $2,000 range. Much less for the do-it-yourselfer and a little more for the guy who doesn't have fabricating skills (coil brackets) and tuning skills (EFILive and so on).

And make that under $3,000 if you're also buying EFILive and a nice Innovate LM-2 Wideband controller.

With a RoadRunner real-time LS1 PCM you're now closer to $3500. At this point you've taken the system to the extreme.

Also keep in mind that EFI Connection is going to offer some sort of package pricing.

So the 24x LT1 package would...
- use all GM sensors (convenient and affordable to replace)
- use an inexpensive PCM (convenient and affordable to replace)
- retain most functionality in car (A/C system, etc)
- eliminate the optispark forever
- offer real-time tuning

Sorry if I missed an answer to this question, I have a 1994 with the OBD1 port, could the LS1 PCM be tuned through that port or would one need to install a OBD2 port?

just swap to the righ port there are thosands at the wreaking yards... you could possibly make a custom cable for efi live but i would just swap the port.

its seems like rather than paying 2-3k for an LS1 pcm it might almost be more cost effective for us LT1 guys to do a complete LS1 swap. :(

Sorry if I missed an answer to this question, I have a 1994 with the OBD1 port, could the LS1 PCM be tuned through that port or would one need to install a OBD2 port?

You'll want to use an OBDII diagnostic connector. The 94 Camaro harness pictured several posts ago has the connector in the harness near the dash connectors. It's long enough to be mounted in the location of the OBDI connector (which can be removed).

The 96-97 cars will already have the OBDII connector.

These OBDII connector pigtails are avilable in the pigtail sections of http://www.eficonnection.com.

http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/images/obd2_pigtail.jpg

its seems like rather than paying 2-3k for an LS1 pcm it might almost be more cost effective for us LT1 guys to do a complete LS1 swap. :(

Are you sure?
- front engine cradle
- engine
- transmission (or adapter)
- exhaust changes
- radiator changes
- power steering changes
- wiring harness (or harness modifications)

Are you sure?
- front engine cradle
- engine
- transmission (or adapter)
- exhaust changes
- radiator changes
- power steering changes
- wiring harness (or harness modifications)

Yeah it wouldn't be to hard to find a wrecked LS1 parts car for 2-4K to get everything you need. Then if you sell off all your LT1 stuff and all that you don't need off the LS1 and it really makes it a feasible mod.

is the crank sensor (not the wheel) a off the self unit? can you get it out of another vehicle? is it the same as the vortech 454 one? or are you the only source for the sensor? the wheel i would be fine with as it wont wear out but it would suck to have 2000$ in something and not be able to get a sensor down the road..

wouldnt you like to know :devil:

like i said if it works i will post details.. heck if it doesnt i will post details..

Read your own post.

Well.. for us people that have invested a lot of money on the longblock, well, its not an option. I had thought about it and If i were to install anything at all would have been an ls7 with the same supercharger. I have already done the setup with awesome results of 801rwhp on pump gas.

But. I have the same potential here to do the same thing and all i needed was the ls1 pcm. A LOT cheaper.

Read your own post.

my question was in no way implying that what i was trying failed or suceeded.. just wondering about the sensor that efi connection uses


i did however have my setup firing injectors and coils on the bench.. problem being i got a crank sensor error. it may be due to the fact that i was spinning it with a cordless drill with electric brake (stops instanly) or it could be that i am only feeding 5v pulse to the computer and not sure if it requires a 5v pulse or 12v pulse. i can ouput either or i just need to know what is needed. without a ls1 to test its hard get this info. it could also just need a crank relearn.

i do know my setup should run a engine just how well is to be seen yet..

is the crank sensor (not the wheel) a off the self unit? can you get it out of another vehicle? is it the same as the vortech 454 one? or are you the only source for the sensor? the wheel i would be fine with as it wont wear out but it would suck to have 2000$ in something and not be able to get a sensor down the road..

Its a GM crank sensor. 1999-2000 C6500 and C7500 trucks.

And for the LT1 conversion, it uses an LS2/LS3/LS7/etc cam sensor. Regardless of the conversion (early small block Chevy or LT1/LT4), all sensors are readily available through GM.

Read your own post.

i figured out the problem with the crank signal code. aparently when my friend cut the disk he made the one slot into 2 slots by accident. i have rectified the problem and the crank signal problems have gone away. i will put it on the car this week if it stays somewhat warm. if this works i will have less than 300$ total into this whole setup including pcm, harness, coils, custom wheel ect...

i also had to rewire the optical sensor to output 12v square wave signal instead of the 3v pulse it was putting out.

this one disk ouputs both cam and crank signals from inside a modified optispark

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/631/img0256av4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Very clever and nice work.

Most everyone I have talked with about pulling the crank signal from the cam have had the following concerns...

GM never did it that way
true crank position is unknown and changing over time due to timing chain wear
radical cams may provide an inconsistent crank signal


Further regarding the optispark...

prone to corrosion, ruining even the optical signal


The LS1 PCM is actively monitoring crank position to detect misfire. I would question the accuracy of any misfire DTC that may set.

That was the idea that I had given to S10 Wildside and I favored his view of the way it was done...

I get to loose the opti.

That was the idea that I had given to S10 Wildside and I favored his view of the way it was done...
There were a few others who expressed the same concerns.

If it works....great!
If it performs...fantastic!

There are several ways about going at this and seeing the ideas come to surface is proof enough that (some) people want to get away from the LT1 PCM.

Very clever and nice work.

Most everyone I have talked with about pulling the crank signal from the cam have had the following concerns...

GM never did it that way

gm did do it that way on the lt1's via a 360 pulse signal. actually this now is putting out a 48 pulse signal much LOWER resoution than the lt1 originally had...


true crank position is unknown and changing over time due to timing chain wear

getting crank signal of the cam has worked fine on every lt1 ever produced. Also the persons needing a ls1 pcm in a lt1 motor usually won’t be putting the necessary 200,000 miles needed to wear out a chain on a 2 bar boosted motor..


radical cams may provide an inconsistent crank signal

again plenty of radical cam lt1's out there with 0 problems


Further regarding the optispark...

prone to corrosion, ruining even the optical signal


my car had 120,000 km when I pulled that very opti out.. No corrosion to be seen.. I will be able to seal this up 100% now that the high voltage part is gone. Most opti problems involve the high voltage side arcing out. also i have a source that can laser that cam out of stainless for about 150$ (much lower if i buy a quantity) also the stock disk is about .005-.007" i have cut this out of thicker .010 matl so it will be much less likely to "blow up" even thou i have never seen that happen

The LS1 PCM is actively monitoring crank position to detect misfire. I would question the accuracy of any misfire DTC that may set.

again seeing as I have a twin turbo in my car the most it will see between rebuilds is 20k if that.. chain slop is no concern of mine..

Let’s say that I could buy that opti wheel for 150$ (<<didnt cost me near that much) there is 2$ worth of electronics to make it work. In total I have 152$ worth of specific parts to make this work. I will agree that your system is slightly better but the cost doesn’t justify the difference in price. and its not nearly as fun as designing and building someting my self.. i dont take pride in buying stuff.. i take pride in building stuff..

Buying parts from efi connection.
24x Crankshaft Reluctor - LT1 and LT4 Engines $275.00 USD
24x Crankshaft Position Sensor $100.00 USD
1x Camshaft Position Sensor for lt1 (guess probably more)>>$300.00 USD
97 lt1 Timing Cover $80.00 USD
-------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL $755.00 USD


My second Idea was to use a 14$ ls1 reluctor mounted to the lt1 balancer. And a simple bracket to hold the stock ls1 crank sensor.. then I would make a aluminum plug on the lathe that would fit in the seal hole on the lt1 timing cover and use the ls2 cam sensor to trigger of a bolt on reluctor on the cam gear. This could be made with a total of 200$ worth of parts.. the worst thing about this idea is you would have to paint the crank wheel so it wouldnt rust. (again not a problem on my summer driven car) or you would have to replace a 14$ part every 10 years..

also i have got a complete harness with computer and coils for 100$ out of a 99 Chevy truck. the harness i am going to pull out the coil section and re pin in the sensors fans ect from the lt1 harness.

the 99 truck pcm can run 2 and 3 bar OS's and is basically the same as a 411 pcm (will run the same OS) i would recommend anyone looking at this to go this route as junk yards double or triple the price when the parts come off a camaro or vette..

if anyone is intrested in repinning their harness i have the truck, 95lt1 and 2000 camaro diagrams.

GM never did it that way (crank signal from cam)
gm did do it that way on the lt1's via a 360 pulse signal

That does not imply a crank signal from the cam. I agree that it is a means of determining engine position...however accurate or inaccurate it may be.

The 96-97 LT1 engines all have a 4x crank sensor to determine crank position for misfire detection. The LS1 PCM is also a system that uses crank position for misfire detection. Until it is tried and tested, we don't know how the LS1 PCM will behave with a crank signal from the cam.

For OBDII systems, did GM (and other auto manufacturers) choose to get the engine position from the crankshaft because of timing chain wear up to 200,000 miles? Or is there something more to it? I don't know.

For OBDII systems, did GM (and other auto manufacturers) choose to get the engine position from the crankshaft because of timing chain wear up to 200,000 miles? Or is there something more to it? I don't know.


Not 100% sure, but due to the sensitivity of the missfire detection I believe the signal has to be from the crank. If it's installed on the cam the slight bit of slack in the chain might be enough to fake the PCM into a Missfire code since the PCM determines time/speed between combustion events, if the cam is speeding up/slowing down due to slack it might be enough to set it off..

Plus the cam is spinning at 1/4 the speed of the crank, the problem might be amplified.

Can you simply turn off misfire detection?

...due to the sensitivity of the missfire detection I believe the signal has to be from the crank....

According to the GM service manual, diagnostic for P0300 - Misfire Detected, the following conditions are known to cause a misfire DTC:

running out of gas
restricted fuel filter
variable thickness brake rotor
drive shaft out of balance
certain rough road conditions


It sure does sound like the crank signal is rather sensitive.

Can you simply turn off misfire detection?
I see processing enablers and MIL light settings for misfire (in EFILive), but I don't know what the consequences are of disabling everything to do with misfire detection.

You can turn off misfire in the codes perse.

You wouldn't have a FACTORY style system. but it should work. I had thought about it and more or less tried to muck it up using the fast mounting hardware, but since I have a supercharger, it meant that my hardware options for external mounting were limited and I had to rearrange a couple of things.

The system could be affected by external factors and it wouldn't be in a "self contained" system.

You can buy your wiring harness from an ls1 car and repin it, it will be cheaper. All you would need is the reluctor and cam sensor.

Wait till i get some pictures of my setup so you guys can see what I am talking about.

actually your cheaper off to use the lt1 harness and repin it into the ls1 connectors.. then add the crank cam and coil wires.. this way you can start off with more readaly available lower priced truck harness and you allready will have all the coneectors in your engine harness where they need to be.. if you start with a ls1 camaro harness you may have to move some stuff and it seems like the ls1 camaro harness goes for about 200$ for the harness itself. you can get the truck harness and coils for under 100$

got the car running on the ls1 computer today... i repinned the lt1 harness into the connectors and addded the in the coil crank and cam sensors

i was worried at first as it would barely stay running then i pulgged in the other coil harness and it runs like a champ now..

dont mind the smoke there was some antifreeze on the downpipes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btAtQtIe3LY

No... I really wouldn't...

I'll have mine running before you do.


i am hoping you have yours running?

jaja.. not quite.. i was unable to fire up today.. Dead battery... Ran into a few problems installing the timing cover, that took me 2 hours off of my day... But the car is almost ready... and I am hoping to fire up tomorrow!

Point is... I like to drop the oil pan when installing the timing cover, and that was really a pita... not remove it, but just drop it... In a fit of anger I destroyed the oil cooler lines and almost peeled off one of the bolts from the PAN. That alone didn't let me drop the pan to install the timing cover in order to not damage the oil pan gasket and then have a freaking LEAK.

Well.... I drank some coffee... Found a 3/8 socket and a fine racketing... voila... it bolted off... what a relief...

After that it was pretty much straight forward, I just was extremely tired and didn't have the battery ready...

yeah i didnt have to drop the oil pan...

jaja.. not quite.. i was unable to fire up today.. Dead battery... Ran into a few problems installing the timing cover, that took me 2 hours off of my day... But the car is almost ready... and I am hoping to fire up tomorrow!

Point is... I like to drop the oil pan when installing the timing cover, and that was really a pita... not remove it, but just drop it... In a fit of anger I destroyed the oil cooler lines and almost peeled off one of the bolts from the PAN. That alone didn't let me drop the pan to install the timing cover in order to not damage the oil pan gasket and then have a freaking LEAK.

Well.... I drank some coffee... Found a 3/8 socket and a fine racketing... voila... it bolted off... what a relief...

After that it was pretty much straight forward, I just was extremely tired and didn't have the battery ready...

Well.. at least I wont have any issues if my water pump leaks!!! or if i get mud or heavy rain on the road :P

...Plus the cam is spinning at 1/4 the speed of the crank.....

The cam rotates at 1/2 the speed of the crank.

You gonna offer a kit?:cool:

got the car running on the ls1 computer today... i repinned the lt1 harness into the connectors and addded the in the coil crank and cam sensors

i was worried at first as it would barely stay running then i pulgged in the other coil harness and it runs like a champ now..

dont mind the smoke there was some antifreeze on the downpipes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btAtQtIe3LY

You gonna offer a kit?:cool:

looking into it. i woudnt want to go into production on someting that isnt fully tested.

i may be able to get a couple more disks cut out so that i can send a uint out to be tested in warmer climates..

I went to the beach yesterday... jaja.. and my car fired up nicely too on friday!

sure it did :think:

let’s see some vids, pics anything...

no in all seriousness congrats on finally getting it running. :D

Yeah... it has been a 5 year hiatus...

I was fixing the oil line to the supercharger, after it fired up I was only seeing 8-9psi oil pressure and it sure was leaking it down... Last time that happened I had scratched cylinders... So... Didn't want to risk it... Anyways... line is fixed and will be filling with water and starting the tuning process...

before this summer mine had been stitting for 4 yrs also.. kids really drain the ol bank account..

Luckily I have no kids... but the dyno business simply drained all that I had available, and I simply put the money there because if I was getting lots of calls over a 12.2 n/a customer car LT1... How many would I get out of a 9.xx @ 14x.xx LT1?

While I've been representing the 24x crank signal from the crank, I don't mean to say that it can't be sufficiently accomplished through the camshaft. If I've come across as putting down akafred's efforts, I apologize. There's much to appreciate for his efforts in getting the engine running with LS1 PCM through the optispark.

The crank signal through the cam accuracy for misfire detection is unknown and can only be speculation until the facts are known.

With no bias, I would like to know how accurate a crank signal is from the cam. Being that I had much to do with EFI Connection's development of the crank reluctor. I would like to see an oscillicope comparison of the crank signal from the crank and the crank signal from the cam both at the same time while the engine is running and revving.

We initially set out to accomplish coil per cylinder and electronic throttle for an early small block engine. The end result was the RamJet 350 in the S10. The LT1 was somewhat of an afterthought for our 24x system. The crank reluctor was already in development and intended for the early small block with Vortec timing cover. We realized that the 96-97 LT1 timing cover would accomodate our 24x crank reluctor and moved forward from there.

http://www.eficonnection.com/projects/S10Wildside/images/RamJet_in_Engine_Bay01.jpg

http://www.eficonnection.com/projects/S10Wildside/images/S10Wildside_Final_Dyno_Pull_HP_TQ_640x480.jpg

I'm not sure if I missed it...

but what about the harness and such for the 93 guys? I saw in one of the updates it talked about the harness for a 94-97 car..

Should be pretty much the same and I am sure eficonnection can make it to fit your car easily :)

Mine is making a 900rpm idle with a very big cam.. which is impressive...

As of now I am solving the issue with the knock sensors and I'll be pretty much letting it warm fuzzily.

I'm not sure if I missed it...

but what about the harness and such for the 93 guys? I saw in one of the updates it talked about the harness for a 94-97 car..
The 1993 engine harness plugs into the car in the same way as the rest of the 4th gen f-bodies. Not a problem.

alright just wasn't sure if there were any further modifications that would have to be done, as there is always some snag when it comes to 93s haha

anyone know the max rpm of an ls1 pcm? i like the idea of the harness swap if i could turn past 7500rpm

i thought 8000

The LS computers are good for at least 8000. - for sure!

anyone know the max rpm of an ls1 pcm? i like the idea of the harness swap if i could turn past 7500rpm


They are good for about 12,500. But hp tuners only have tables up to 8000 rpm's. If you contact ed wright fastchip I beleave he can help anyone wanting to go above 8000.

thanks for the info.. i need to shift @ or about 8300 so looks like the swap will be a+

i figured out the problem with the crank signal code. aparently when my friend cut the disk he made the one slot into 2 slots by accident. i have rectified the problem and the crank signal problems have gone away. i will put it on the car this week if it stays somewhat warm. if this works i will have less than 300$ total into this whole setup including pcm, harness, coils, custom wheel ect...

i also had to rewire the optical sensor to output 12v square wave signal instead of the 3v pulse it was putting out.

this one disk ouputs both cam and crank signals from inside a modified optispark

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/631/img0256av4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Nice work. I knew it was just a matter of time till someone converted the opti to make this work. Lose the opti and have LS1 tuning and 3 bar capabilities...Count me in. Now I just have to figure out where to hide the ugly ls1 coils!!! LOL:)

$525.00 24x LT1 Conversion Package
EFI Connection is now offering the 24x LT1 conversion package. The package includes...

Our 24x crankshaft reluctor and 24x crank sensor. This reluctor has been developed by EFI Connection and is the first of its kind. Each 24x reluctor is CNC cut from one piece of steel. It installs within the 96-97 LT1 timing cover for a sealed, very factory type installation. This 24x reluctor also installs within the early small block Vortec timing cover for non-LT1 applications.

http://www.eficonnection.com/coilpercylinder/24x_reluctor_final_hpt_400w.jpg http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/images/24x_Crank_Sensor.jpg

Our LT1 camshaft sensor, housing, and 1x target. If purchased separately, outside the $525 package price, these pieces are bundled together for $250. The housing below is an early production housing. The only difference in appearance will be that the face of the housing will retain a cast aluminum look. This housing replaces the optispark module.

http://www.eficonnection.com/coilpercylinder/PreProductionCamSensorHousing_small.jpg

An engine harness, ignition coils, PCM, and other items are not included in this package. 24x LT1 plug and play conversion harnesses for the Camaro/Firebird are priced at $800. Many other items are offered through EFI Connection.

Looks great!

Now just wondering what the total cost for conversion would be, including these parts and everything else including software? Anybody feel like assembling a quick parts list with approx prices? I dont know what's needed since I have LT1 PCM.

Harness $800
24x LT1 package $525
coils, used +/-$120
ECU, used +/-$75
front cover, used +/-$50
3 bar map =) $60
Total roughly $1625
I am going with HP tuners pro with the tuning book for an additional $700

Grand total for me +/- $2350

Well, I'm just waiting for EFI connection now. This is a great product for me, as I am the only idiot who took out their LS1 and is putting an LT1 in its place in my 99 T/A. Mike is setting up my harness so that it is plug and play with my 99 body, so no other wiring changes will have to be made. Here's the progress.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/ak95ta/IMG_1486.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/ak95ta/IMG_1489.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/ak95ta/IMG_1488.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/ak95ta/IMG_1487.jpg

This is a great product for me, as I am the only idiot who took out their LS1 and is putting an LT1 in its place in my 99 T/A.
But to be fair, that's a potent LT4 you have there and with the LS1 ignition system, who cares that it's a different engine? Looks great!

A big thanks to Mike in Wisconsin for sharing videos of his 24x LT1 installation progress. Mike sent a few videos of the engine running on the dyno. The engine may be hooked up to the water brake this week to apply load.

Keep in mind that Mike is using a calibration that we are using on our test stand. It's rough at best and needs a lot of work. However, you'd hardly know it seeing this engine run.

First QuickTime Video (http://www.eficonnection.com/coilpercylinder/customers/videos/24xLT1_MikeS01.mov)
Second QuickTime Video (http://www.eficonnection.com/coilpercylinder/customers/videos/24xLT1_MikeS02.mov)
Third QuickTime Video (http://www.eficonnection.com/coilpercylinder/customers/videos/24xLT1_MikeS03.mov)

Mike purchased:
- 24x LT1 crank reluctor
- he had a 24x crank sensor
- 24x LT1 conversion harness (stand alone type for his pickup truck...which works well for the dyno)
- cam sensor, housing, and target
- 96-97 LT1 crank key (GM# 12550096)
- used LS type coils (truck coils I think)

His comments have been:
- it fired up first try
- throttle response is perceived as better than with the original electronics
- a few emissions trouble codes have set (fuel level, fuel sensor, AIR pump, skip shift...all need to be disabled in the calibration)

Mike
EFI Connection

Harness $800
24x LT1 package $525
coils, used +/-$120
ECU, used +/-$75
front cover, used +/-$50
3 bar map =) $60
Total roughly $1625
I am going with HP tuners pro with the tuning book for an additional $700

Grand total for me +/- $2350

Do you really need that $800 harness? How about splicing into the LT1 harness and adding coil wires or is the LS1 PCM harness connection the tricky part to get?

Do you really need that $800 harness? How about splicing into the LT1 harness and adding coil wires or is the LS1 PCM harness connection the tricky part to get?

If you know how to modify the LT1 harness, then you don't need a new harness. It's a project for sure and something that not everyone will want to tackle. We stock everything needed for the harness conversion. In other words, you're going to find that you need the LS1 PCM connectors, crank sensor connector, coil harness connectors, more automotive (TXL) wire, and so on...

Mike
EFI Connection

Here's an exploded view of all the hardware involved to equip an LT1/LT4 engine with the signals required by the Gen3 LSx PCMs.

The 1x cam reluctor bolts to the cam sprocket and is located by the pin on the cam.

The cam sensor housing replaces the optispark module.

The 24x crank reluctor installs on the crankshaft and is located by the 96-97 LT1 crank key (GM# 12550096).

No adjustments. Bolt it all on and it's ready to run.

http://www.eficonnection.com/coilpercylinder/24x_LT1_Components_LS1_Coil_per_Cylinder.jpg

For the wire harness DIYers...all of the harness components you will need while converting your 93-97 Camaro/Firebird LT1 engine harness to use the LS1 PCM...

http://www.eficonnection.com/coilpercylinder/24x_LT1_fbody_harness_kit.jpg

PCM Connectors
Two LS1 PCM connectors, retainers, and dress covers.

PCM Terminals
Some are going to add nitrous control, valet mode, or some other functionality and having a few extra PCM terminals will come in handy.

Coil Pack Harnesses (PCM Side)
Pre-cut to length for the f-body harness. PCM ends are terminated. Pink wires go to 12v ignition and black wires go to ground.

24x Crank Sensor Harness
24x crank sensor connector with wire to the PCM. PCM ends are terminated.

Knock Sensor Harness
Some may choose to add a 2nd knock sensor. Not required, but the LS1 calibration supports it by default. Wire length puts the connector at bank 2.

Cam Sensor Harness
Are you familiar with the optispark jumper harness? Well, this is the same idea. The gray connector plugs into the mating black connector at the intake manifold between injectors 4 & 6. DIYers will rework their LT1 engine harness so that three of those wires mate to this cam sensor jumper harness. It's a factory look and makes future service of the harness easy. We could think of more reasons to do it this way than to not. Don't want the extra connection? Cut the gray connector and use the cam sensor connector to splice into your LT1 engine harness.

How does this setup differ from the one being posted on LS1Tech?

lt1 runs on ls1 computer using modded OPTI (http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-modifications/1040072-lt1-runs-ls1-computer-using-modded-opti.html)

How does this setup differ from the one being posted on LS1Tech?

lt1 runs on ls1 computer using modded OPTI (http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-modifications/1040072-lt1-runs-ls1-computer-using-modded-opti.html)

The one that AKAFRED built uses a modified wheel in the opti. This setup no longer uses an optical sensor an uses a setup very similar to the LS1 engine. AKAFRED's setup could still be affected by water failure, with this setup that is not an issue. Both systems do the same thing, but just do it differently.

I see, so this setup has a crank and cam sensor where the other one uses the cam for crank and cam reference?

I see, so this setup has a crank and cam sensor where the other one uses the cam for crank and cam reference?

That is correct. But on a modified wheel in the opti. On ls1 engines, the crank sensor is the important one, not the cam sensor. The engines will still run with the cam sensor unhooked, the tach wont work though. Ive just had too much trouble with the optispark system, I have purchased a setup from EFI Connection/S10Wildside.

So what would be the total cost to convert and LT1 to and LS1 system?

I believe that AKAFRED's setup has still yet to run reliably... mine fired perfectly the first time, but i had leaky heads that really layed out my things...

Hey.. ak95TA... is that a YSi trim and Chris Zorka's brackets?

Hey.. ak95TA... is that a YSi trim and Chris Zorka's brackets?

Yea, it is the blower and brackets that Chris Sykora (Z8's) took into the 8's. I actually bought it from littleredz on here.

Mike with EFI Connection should be shipping my remaining items on Monday. Im pretty anxious.

Here are a few more pics. Gotta a monster crank pulley :D
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/ak95ta/IMG_1529.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/ak95ta/IMG_1532.jpg

[QUOTE=ak95ta;5869087]Yea, it is the blower and brackets that Chris Sykora (Z8's) took into the 8's. I actually bought it from littleredz on here.

Mike with EFI Connection should be shipping my remaining items on Monday. Im pretty anxious.

Here are a few more pics. Gotta a monster crank pulley :D


What I love best is it works with the the stock AC compressor and Alternator. Beautious. Perfection. Congrats on some nice pieces there!

So what would be the total cost to convert and LT1 to and LS1 system?


Originally Posted by ak95ta
Harness $800
24x LT1 package $525
coils, used +/-$120
ECU, used +/-$75
front cover, used +/-$50
3 bar map =) $60
Total roughly $1625
I am going with HP tuners pro with the tuning book for an additional $700

Grand total for me +/- $2350

I'm excited about both Highlander and ak95ta builds. I had hoped to have everything shipped by now for Dustin but, being so early in the production of these pieces, his build has taken a little longer than expected. Everything should be out on Monday though.

There are a lot of cam sensor housings here, but they all need machined. For now the housings will be machined manually on the mill and tested on the engine. The CNC shop is working up a quote for the production of the 1x cam reluctors. Those have been taking up to 4 hours each on the lathe and mill. Here's a better shot of the cam sensor components.

http://www.eficonnection.com/coilpercylinder/1x_LT1_cam_housing_kit_small.jpg

About the Engine Harnesses
We're only two items away from having all of the connector components to completely build new harnesses. 8,000 alternator seals should be received this week and 2,800 coolant temp sender connectors should be received in the upcoming months. (How about those minimum quantities!!) Fortunately there are a handfull of these items lying around to keep the engine harness production going.

HP Tuners and Closed Loop
Does HP Tuners allow you to change the injector bank assignments? If not, one of their customers should request it as it will be important for closed loop operation. EFILive does provide for reassigning injector bank assignments. A work around may be changing the injector bank assigments on a stock calibration with EFILive and reading the calibration with HP Tuners.

Dustin - you'll want to look closer at this if you plan to run in closed loop.

I've never used HP Tuners, so I can't speak for their software.

Who made those pulleys????? I have been thinking of moving to a set of cog belted pulleys.

I have a set from chris' too. I have the stock crank pulley from vortech 7" and a 2.75". So we pretty much have the same setup :)

Sorry to hijack but this has a lot to do with the ls1pcm...

HP Tuners and Closed Loop
Does HP Tuners allow you to change the injector bank assignments? If not, one of their customers should request it as it will be important for closed loop operation. EFILive does provide for reassigning injector bank assignments. A work around may be changing the injector bank assigments on a stock calibration with EFILive and reading the calibration with HP Tuners.

Dustin - you'll want to look closer at this if you plan to run in closed loop.

I've never used HP Tuners, so I can't speak for their software.

I haven't been able to find it in the program, but I have started a new thread over at HPTuners forum, so hopefully I can get something going. I did notice however that you could change the firing order on HPTuners. This could help with some of the conversion guys, either that or confuse them.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/ak95ta/firingorder.jpg
Who made those pulleys????? I have been thinking of moving to a set of cog belted pulleys.

I have a set from chris' too. I have the stock crank pulley from vortech 7" and a 2.75". So we pretty much have the same setup :)

Sorry to hijack but this has a lot to do with the ls1pcm...

I believe they are ASP pulleys, 8" crank, and 2.75" charger'

I haven't been able to find it in the program, but I have started a new thread over at HPTuners forum, so hopefully I can get something going. I did notice however that you could change the firing order on HPTuners. This could help with some of the conversion guys, either that or confuse them.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/ak95ta/firingorder.jpg


I believe they are ASP pulleys, 8" crank, and 2.75" charger'

Damn... you are spinning it very VERY fast. Can you please post the part numbers for the ASP Pulleys?

On HPT can you change number of cylinders?

Damn... you are spinning it very VERY fast. Can you please post the part numbers for the ASP Pulleys?

On HPT can you change number of cylinders?

Fast is good, no seriously, it is being overspun like a mofo. I dont have the P#'s you might PM LittleRedZ, as I bought the setup from him. I just checked HPT on the # of cylinders, min val is 8, max val is 8, so it looks like a negative.

I always thought this was fixed, but I wanted to know for sure in case we could do a coil on plug for the typhoons and syclones... or other v6's.

With that setup you should be making close to 21psi boost and around 1000rwhp.

Anyways... Thank you.. I'll PM Him now.

As I was checking with a few people... That firing order ONLY affects Miss fire data. It doesn't affect the actual firing order. You would STILL have to wire the the outputs in the way that Mike @ Efi has done it... Just a clarification...

As I was checking with a few people... That firing order ONLY affects Miss fire data. It doesn't affect the actual firing order. You would STILL have to wire the the outputs in the way that Mike @ Efi has done it... Just a clarification...

Yep, you are right.
Yea, I was reading the same thing while looking for the injector bank assignment. Supposedly HP Tuners has the table for it, but I guess it is a new development.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21983&highlight=injector+bank

EFIlive has it too and a long time ago.

I have a question about tuning of this conversion. Since the firing orders are different, Will this complicate the tuning or the troubleshooting since the banks will be intertwined together? I am seriously considering doing this modification mainly for reliability and the better troubleshooting of running problems. I read on your site about pinning the injectors and coils to correct this the firing order issue. I guess im just curious how the trims would work out, since the injectors would be on the wrong banks. I have a cammed car, And my trims never are the same. And one last question, Do you think this setup can be mail order tuned By pcm for less or madz28?

as said in a previous post... you can change the bank association with efilive.

Once I get my car running and ready I will help out and offer a calibration file if the demand is there.

Alright, HP Tuners does have the Injector Bank Select, it is available in their newest beta. This should allow the closed loop operation. With the 3 bar OS and the real time tuning, this should be what I need.

Alright, HP Tuners does have the Injector Bank Select, it is available in their newest beta. This should allow the closed loop operation. With the 3 bar OS and the real time tuning, this should be what I need.

Can you post up a screen shot?

Not only that... we will be getting ETC SOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can you post up a screen shot?

What would you like a screen shot of exactly so I can get it for you?

Not only that... we will be getting ETC SOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is ETC?

What is ETC?

ETC = Electronic Throttle Control (Drive-by-Wire)

Imagine having a large cam idling....
Cleaner install
No wires!!!!!
CRUISE CONTROL!!!!!!!!!
WOW!!!!!

has anyone stuck this on a car with ABS yet to see if the ABS works?

I don't care about TCS but ABS is nice.

has anyone stuck this on a car with ABS yet to see if the ABS works?

I don't care about TCS but ABS is nice.

Hmmm I don't think it would matter considering the ABS module is separate from the ECM.

Drive-by-Wire is now available for TPI and LT1. Uses LS1/LS6 Corvette equipment...with a LS1/LS6 Corvette throttle body as a core. 52mm shown on the intake and video, 58mm to the right, and mono-blade available. Throttle bodies shown are prototype, production have breather and vacuum.

http://www.eficonnection.com/coilpercylinder/lt1/24x_LT1_52mm_58mm_DBW.jpg

Click Here for 16mb Video (http://www.eficonnection.com/coilpercylinder/lt1/24x_LT1_52mm_DBW.mpg)

Benefits:
- integrated cruise control (no vacuum operated cruise)
- may offer better idle for larger camshaft applications
- less cluttered engine bay

Most f-body owners will prefer to stick with cable driven throttle. And why not? Everything is already there. Most of our work has been for engine swappers (street rods, classic trucks, etc), so this throttle body was not exactly intended for the f-body, but there have already been a few showing interest.

That's just SICK ! :p

My Ls1 kit came in the other day. It's sitting right next to the Roadrunner. Too bad I can't play with it until MAY 22:cry:

Mike your work is incredible:bow:

i'll be playing with it.. .SO SOON.

Hmmm I don't think it would matter considering the ABS module is separate from the ECM.

The ABS and TCS picks up signals from the ECM . One of the updates I received from EFI connection said the TCS would not work, but it looked like the ABS might.

The biggest concern with ABS is that the 99+ pcms require Class 2 data (J1850 VPW) and LT1 cars are serial data (UART).

The biggest concern with ABS is that the 99+ pcms require Class 2 data (J1850 VPW) and LT1 cars are serial data (UART).

Exactly.

I have a different perspective than most viewing this thread in that 99% of the harness work I've done for the past 5 years has been for people who have removed an engine from a f-body, y-body, or truck and swapped into an older vehicle without all of the other onboard modules.

The 24x conversion was initially intended for engine swappers who have a TPI/LT1 engine sitting in the shop and are in a convenient position to consider a new fuel management system. The 4th gen f-body was more of an afterthought that I chose to support by bringing in the f-body specific connectors to make a plug and play harness.

I was talking with someone the other day who had an LT1 f-body harness reworked to use with an LS1 engine by a very well respected harness shop for $800. He submitted a used LS1 and LT1 harness and paid $800 to receive a used, reworked, harness to operate the LS1 engine in his LT1 car.

LT1 cars have a separate ABS module under the dash and LS1 cars have a pump with a built in module. When doing a rehome on the LT1 NW9 ABS unit with a Tech 1 you need the 16 Pin Non-OBD II DLC adapter and no OBDII VIM. The Tech 2 doesn't need an adapter when doing a rehome because the VCI module determines the signal. Once I get some time I'll look how the LT1 ABS module connects to the body harness. I think we had talked about looking at the "C" connectors to see how this problem could be solved. I have GM ESI and the Helms manual for my car so once I am able to get the ball rolling I will provide whatever info I can.
Mike your craftsmanship is impeccable, pictures do not do your products justice.

I know there are very few people that will use this and use the ABS, but i"m very intrigued by the prospect. I know it can be done, but it's just a matter of demand. In my line of work patience is a virtue so I understand, building a product for a market is "difficult" at best.

As I was checking with a few people... That firing order ONLY affects Miss fire data. It doesn't affect the actual firing order. You would STILL have to wire the the outputs in the way that Mike @ Efi has done it... Just a clarification...

Well, I got mine started tonight. For my initial tune, I set the firing order as 18436572 for misfire purposes, and it wouln't start. I changed it to the stock LS1 firing order, and made no other changes, and it fired right up!! So maybe with HP tuners you can change firing order???? Any way, it wouldn't idle, so I have lots of tuning to do.

well.. how did you wire your coils and ignition? straight up? or did you change it to accommodate for the firing order?

Well, I got mine started tonight.

Congrats!! Keep us updated on your progress!

well.. how did you wire your coils and ignition? straight up? or did you change it to accommodate for the firing order?

His harness is wired with 2&3 and 7&4 swapped.

Here is a picture of it installed.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/ak95ta/IMG_1587.jpg

Here is a pic of EFI Connections cam sensor and housing tucked in nicely behind the h2o pump.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/ak95ta/IMG_1584.jpg

Wow!!!!!

Throttle Body ID plates are now available to represent the 24x system.

http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/images/24xIdPlate.jpg

And here is our new throttle body line up. 52mm, 58mm, and Mono Blade.

http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/images/24xThrottleBodyLineUp_600w.jpg

Here is where my driver side knock sensor ended up. The block was simply drilled and tapped for the sensor. Without a total rework of the driver side motor mount, this was the best option. I did not want to delete this in the tune due to my engine being supercharged, and knock is your enemy.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/ak95ta/IMG_1578.jpg

So you drilled it??? or did you use an existing bolt hole or something?

I was going to extend it...

there is a threaded hole on either side of the block that the knock sensor will thread into.

Yes but the one on the driver side has problems with the motor mount. ak95ta care to post the drill bit and tap you used?

Thanks

Here is where my driver side knock sensor ended up. The block was simply drilled and tapped for the sensor. Without a total rework of the driver side motor mount, this was the best option. I did not want to delete this in the tune due to my engine being supercharged, and knock is your enemy.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/ak95ta/IMG_1578.jpg


Why did you have to do this? Maybe I missed it somewhere in this thread.

Thx,

EB

Why did you have to do this? Maybe I missed it somewhere in this thread.
The f-body only received one knock sensor. The LS1 calibration supports up to two knock sensors. However, only one can be used if desired.

Yes but the one on the driver side has problems with the motor mount. ak95ta care to post the drill bit and tap you used?

Thanks

It is a 7/16" drill bit and a 1/4" 18 NPT tap. Real simple and easy to do. I talked to a machine shop before doing it and where to put it. That is where we decided would be best. The cast is about 3/4" thick in that spot, and right between the bores.

Why did you have to do this? Maybe I missed it somewhere in this thread.

Thx,

EB

The LS1 uses 2 knock sensors, one driver side and one passenger side, bank 1, bank 2. The block has the spot for them on both sides, unfortunatly there is no room on the driver side due to the motor mount size/location. The passenger side is no problem.

Hey would this timing cover work for the LS1 computer conversion?

An electric water pump would be a given and the hole for the cam sensor mount would have to be cut but at $23 and available new it might be worth checking out.

http://www.jegs.com/i/GM-Performance/809/12562818/10002/-1#

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/80912562818.jpghttp://www.hashmarks.com/techtips/cam_install/500/37%20Old%20cover%20vs%20new%20with%20H2O%20pump%20 drive%20hole%20plugged.jpg

Good find, I am in the process of doing an EFI connection kit. Just bought an 03 LS1 computer and brand new LS2 coils. Now I just need the parts from them and I am repinning my own harness, should be less than $900 total.

Anyone think this thing will work? I could always buy it and send it back if need be?

Where do you mount the cam position sensor? That is a cool piece and would make a neat starting point if you were trying to roll your own from scratch. It won't work with the cam sensor that is provided in the kit unless you are willing to do a lot of modification and fabrication to make it work.

They don't come through often, but ironically, two of the real ones just went off of eBay today in the $120 shipped range. Luckily, I found the one I bought brand new back in 1997 and had it welded up :p

EDIT: that's not even for an LTx engine. It would work perfectly for one of the Gen1 conversions that use the Vortec distributor.

I added a picture of the late LT1 LT4 cover. It's clear the the LT1/LT4 cover is taller to accomodate the water pump drive gear. But that new ZZ4 cover is plastic, and I wonder if a thin filler plate could be fabricated to reach from the ZZ4 cover to the top of the LT1 timing chain opening. A EWP would be manditory plus I'm not sure how the EFI Connection cam sensor would work with the plastic cover. Maybe EFI could answer that. I might buy that ZZ4 cover just to see

I'm not sure how the EFI Connection cam sensor would work with the plastic cover. Maybe EFI could answer that.

You must use the 96-97 LT1 timing cover.

http://www.eficonnection.com/coilpercylinder/24x_LT1_Components_LS1_Coil_per_Cylinder.jpg

EFI connection is the place man.

Call Mike hes great and will get things set up for you. Its not to hard. Just need to repin the harness slightly and add some connectors. Also need a 96+ front timing cover. They sell the rest to do the conversion. 500 i think.

So what is the deal with this and the wiring changes for the injectors, I realize there is a difference in firing order, so do you just reverse the wires so when it is 'firing' #2 it is actually firing injector #3??? Or can you just change the injector assignment in the tuning software and not have to worry about changing wires? Is LS2edit capable of doing the changes needed(this is what my tuner uses)

I am interested in this kit as I am tired of replacing opti's, guess the wiring is my only real question... Were directions ever made up for the DIY wiring changes?