Read the Vancouver Sun, page A21

Well, a police analyst has decided to offer his views on street racing. If he has his way, anyone who modifies his or her car would have to register it and have it inspected for legality. In addition, speed shops would become culpable for accidents caused by cars street racing with they made modifications.

This is probably the most naive account I have ever seen on street racing, and I will cook up a response and mail it in to the paper (I'll post it here too). It is sad to see the views presented in this article, and if his views are aligning with the views of the general public, our sport and pastime, and our constitutional right to modify our cars (legally of course) is in serious trouble.

Here is a link to the story:

http://www.canada.com/search/story.aspx?id=1b3c81b9-7e02-434d-9644-43140ffde8cb

Although he chooses his words carefully and much of what he says is true, it is rather unfortunate when someone who is viewed as an "authority" figure makes certain biased and unrational statements. His words, whether he is right or wrong (and whether objective or subjective), will unfortunately be persuasive to a lot of the general public, creating even greater stigma towards modified cars (and unjustly so, I might add). What makes it even worse is the fact that the beginning portions of his article make reasonable sense, which will persuade more people to agree with his later (even though less reasonable) statements as well. Sort of like sugar coating the rat poison.

Persons in such public view should be much more careful about how they state or phrase things as their statements can unnnecessairly bias many people. It is negligence of their profession when they make such "subjective" statements openly and publicly, full well knowing it will fuel the hatred that some people have towards modified cars (or towards drivers of such cars).

Focus on the bad drivers who prove themselves bad... not the cars or the shops. And don't assume someone is a 'bad' driver just because their vehicle is modified for speed.

I like the fact that he distinguishs between the drivers that have no respect for their cars - and the one's who have worked hard and take pride in their vehicles. Mainly becuase I fall into the latter.
Ever since aircare was brought abought, I thought is was a poor substitute for the vehicle inspections of the old days. I would say bring on the vehicle inspections, they at least kept the cars off the road that were unfit to drive - as long as air care leaves the picture. I'm not willing to pay for both.

Here is my letter to the editor of the Sun:


----------------------------------------------------



To whom it may concern,

I felt compelled to write a response to the article written by Mr Fung in today's Vancouver Sun (Nov. 19, 2002). If you could please pass this on to him, that would be appreciated. I have no idea how to get this published, and I didn't really write it with that in mind, but if you want to use it in any way please feel free. Perhaps the public would appreciate the view of a performance car enthusiast.

The text is below.

Thanks,

Craig Lawson
cplawson@shaw.ca



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr Fung,

Thank you for the article on street racing, however some of the points you mention warrant further discussion. Let me begin by saying that I do own and drive on the street a powerful, modified car. My vehicle is a Pontiac Firebird with a heavily modified engine, and despite this obvious domestic bias, I am a fan of all high performance vehicles regardless of their origin, engine displacement, or brand. As an owner of a car that is heavily modified (legally, at least under current regulations), I have a stake in anything that may result from the street racing issue. I certainly agree that street racing in Vancouver is a growing problem that needs to be addressed. You raise some interesting questions about the family unit and street racing behaviour, however, some of the other points you make are incorrect.

You begin by misinterpreting the true definition of a "rice rocket". A "rice rocket" is a car that looks fast, but isn't. Import cars that really are powerful and/or handle well are generally not dubbed "rice rockets" at all. However, whether a car is fast or not is not a true indicator of the danger that car presents to the public, as we will see later. You also completely ignore the many forms of organized and safe car racing that 99% of all cars (modified or not) can participate in. You are correct that we do not need more speedways, as I for one have no interest in racing on an oval track with banked curves at 150 mph. I much prefer Autocross at Boundary Bay, Drag Racing at Mission, and I will attempt to start road racing at Mission Raceway Park next summer. You say that racing venues "have strict regulations governing vehicle equipment and modifications", however you erroneously construe that to mean that modified cars would be banned from attending. The truth is that many of the regulations serve the purpose of fitting modified cars into classes with cars of similar capabilities. This actually enhances safety, and makes car racing much more competitive and enjoyable. It is true that dangerously modified vehicles would be excluded from these events, but I argue that the vast majority of modified cars are safely able to race on the track and drive on the street. In fact, Autocross is famous for catering to almost every modification you could ever make to a vehicle, and in doing so, the playing field is levelled in such a way that a turbocharged Porsche can be beaten by a 20 year old Toyota Corolla. The problem here is that we are starved for venues. Mission raceway hosts about 10 events per summer for drag racing on Friday evenings, but they often close their gates due to overcrowding before many people are able to arrive thanks to work and school. If you do manage to get through the gate, you are lucky to get 3 runs down the quarter mile (that last less then 20 seconds) in a span of 5 hours before the track closes for a few more weeks.

You continue by discussing the blame involved with a street racing incident, and to whom it should be assessed. Why is that in this society we must seek to blame as many parties as possible for something that was the fault of a single individual? There is nothing wrong with selling fast cars, or modifying these cars further, since no one can predict how a driver will use the tools at his disposal. In fact, modifications can be a tremendous asset in certain situations. Imagine a scenario where you are crossing a dangerous intersection with low visibility. If someone is speeding through the intersection, the car crossing it needs to immediately evade in order to avoid a potentially deadly accident. This has happened to me once when I was attempting to make a left turn at a controlled intersection when a large pickup truck ran the red light at high speed. Thankfully the power of my engine was able to pull me through the intersection before I as well as my passenger were killed. As long as cars (and modified cars) are operated in accordance with the law and common sense, there is no danger involved. You attach a stigma to modifications, and you are leading the public to believe that these changes are by definition unsafe. I challenge this belief, because in my opinion, everything I have done to my car increases its performance - the definition of which is to increase one's ability and likelihood to accomplish certain tasks. I have increased my car's power, I have strengthened its brakes, I have put better tires on it, and I have improved its handling. How in any way do these modifications make my car more dangerous when I drive it according to the law on the street? I argue that they make my car much safer on the street for myself as well as everyone else around me. The key here is that yes, illegal and unsafe modifications need to be addressed - however, poor mechanical condition for all other cars should be enforced at the same time. I see dozens of cars, most of them old, underpowered, and poorly maintained that are genuine hazards to other cars on the road. If an effort is made to punish unsafe modifications, then the same effort should be applied to any car that has an unsafe mechanical deficiency.

You have a strong point when you mention the differences in habits between drivers who bought a car themselves, as opposed to those who received their vehicle as a gift. I for one bought my car myself, and have spent hundreds of hours modifying it and tuning it - my car is a labor of love, and I would never put it, others, and myself into an unsafe situation. Many of these young drivers who crash their cars in street races did not earn the money used to buy their cars, and if the cars were modified, they probably paid to have work done at a car shop. However this has nothing to do with the performance of the car itself, or the modifications done to it.

You mention dialogue multiple times, however it seems that you are not interested in talking with the segment of the population that is genuinely interested in driving modified cars in accordance with the law. You propose to shackle not only the owners of these cars, but the shops that work on them. What we have here is a three-way conflict. We have society, authorities and law enforcement, and the general public who share your opinions and oppose the existence of cars that possess high performance capabilities thanks to modifications. However unfortunate and inaccurate this belief may be, it is a natural one, and I hope to help change it. We have the other extreme, composed of the blatant street racers (whether their cars are modified or not is beside the point) who have little regard for safety and responsibility. And finally we have the group that is stuck in the middle of the conflict, those of us who safely, legally, and passionately care about our sport. I think it is safe to say that the middle group, to which I belong, is also interested in curbing the street racing menace. Unfortunately in this case ignorance is bliss and the vast majority of the public, and the authorities themselves, are unaware that the majority of modified car owners fall into this category. Thus street racers as well as performance enthusiasts are all lumped together, much to our dismay.

Unfortunately, no one is considering our ideas. Many of us enthusiasts are willing to help find a solution to this problem, if only people were willing to at least consider alternatives such as more track availability and/or higher frequency of events, instead of dismissing them outright. There are many possible solutions to this problem, however this does not involve regulating the modification of cars since that would be an impossible goal. Demonizing and thus inciting the public against modified cars is not the answer either, especially when you consider that most of the accidents involve stock or lightly modified vehicles.

Your article brings up some important points about irresponsible driving, poorly maintained cars, and street racing. However the root cause of the problem is still the same - too many drivers who do not know how to properly handle their cars are driving them unsafely. The chief reason is almost always the driver doing something stupid with the vehicle they are driving, and the vehicle in question is often not even a "sports car". There is a reason for the driver to commit these acts, and that reason is the adrenaline rush (along with an ego boost). If we can provide an alternative way for drivers to engage in this sport (there is no greater rush for me then running a great time at an Autocross event), then we will reduce the desire to street race. Simple logic allows us to see that there are alternatives out there, however this article quashes them based on false information.

As an addenda, Mr Fung, or anyone else who may be interested, I personally invite you to follow me through this coming racing season - I invite you to follow my trips to Mission, my trips to autocross at Boundary Bay, and through my road racing training - all in a safely modified street car. This will be free to you, and if you are truly interested in seeing the sad state of the legal racing scene here in Vancouver, I challenge you to join me and see what we have to put up with to engage our passion. You will see the lack of options that we have here, and maybe that will give you some insight into why some people turn to street racing to get the adrenaline rush they could get on the track, if it were possible to find one. You will also get to see why us true enthusiasts modify our cars, and maybe then you will see that it is a sport worth saving and even promoting.

And as for you street racers out there who insist on racing on busy, urban streets, I challenge you to come to the Autocross events held at Boundary Bay airport - let's see how much driving skill you really have. You might even find something more satisfying, rewarding, and worthy of respect then street racing

Very well written

Defintely agree with you. Well said

Excellent letter. Please keep us informed of what responses you get from the paper or the RCMP member himself.

CanadianZ

Well done!
I hope you get a reply.

Well said Craig, keep me updated.

I hope use your letter Craig. Very well said!

Great letter, I just hope it doesn't go to waist. I wish the general public could read about our point of view inorder to decrease the lack of informed people. If that letter was published in a newspaper with decent readership, I'm sure it would change many people's opinions. I will also add that this represents my feelings exactly.

Thanks Craig,

Andy

well done craig

You impress us everytime ...

if they dont bother to read your letter or reply to it, maybe we can send it in with some sort of petition.. im sure we can get quite a few people to sign your letter demanding a response from Mr Fung or other autorities.

:bow:

...you should send that letter to local newspapers, radio stations, and perhaps television news stations. I'd hate to see that go to waste, may the truth be told.

Mike

Yeah, I can't wait for a reply - especially to my challenge of accompanying me to the track. I want to show someone in the press the long lineups, long travel time, and other crap that goes on just to get a couple runs in at the drag strip once or twice a month.

Originally posted by sleeperZragtop
...you should send that letter to local newspapers, radio stations, and perhaps television news stations. I'd hate to see that go to waste, may the truth be told.

Mike

Great idea, I second it.

CanadianZ

Thanks for the encouragement guys, I just might broadcast that letter - however I will probably wait a day or two and see if I get a response from the Sun.

Please do not misunderstand, yours is a great letter, but I read your letter first and THEN read the article.

I think you argued for some points that he had already conceeded though. it was also interesting to note that the early part of his article suggested that street racing in past generations used some discretion on where and how. Discretion that is not displayed by a large segment of the young asian community.

That being said, to suggest that shops be held accountable is clearly absurd. What about the guy who does his own work?

It's a case of using a sledge hammer to crack a peanut. Forbid ALL modifications to cars because of a relatively small number of people!!!! I do not wish to minimize the loss or risk to society from street racers and their 'accidents', but the percentage of street racers to modified cars is probably 1000:1.

No, the solution is ball breaking penalties. I mean BIG wallet busting ones. Lose your car. $20,000 fines. Jail, DEPORTATION.

iIhave mixed feeling on extra facilities as being the answer BUT there is the demand and it would enable the law to be less tolerant of this activity if there were viable alternatives.

However, credit where credit is due, this chap called it how it is without all the PC crap. Good for him for saying publically what everyone else is saying privately.

I know we have an Asian board member in the US who took a little umberage at a previous discussion on this topic sggesting we be cautious about making generalizations. Although that is completely reasonable, i think this article does indicate the local issue here.

I needed you in highschool, it'd take me 3 weeks to write an essay that long.

Very well written Craig :D

Definately try to get that published in some form :)

If the sun doesnt print it the local papers will, thats better than 90 % of the crap they print.

Great Job :bow:

Originally posted by 97TA-WS6-Con
Please do not misunderstand, yours is a great letter, but I read your letter first and THEN read the article.

hehe no worries, the more input the merrier


I think you argued for some points that he had already conceeded though. it was also interesting to note that the early part of his article suggested that street racing in past generations used some discretion on where and how. Discretion that is not displayed by a large segment of the young asian community.[/B]

Yep, there are some things that I agree with. It's always good to try to empathize with someone your are criticising, and acknowledge the points you concur with. That way I can avoid being called a hypocrit when I blast him later on for dismissing alternatives that he clearly has little knowledge of :D


That being said, to suggest that shops be held accountable is clearly absurd. What about the guy who does his own work?

It's a case of using a sledge hammer to crack a peanut. Forbid ALL modifications to cars because of a relatively small number of people!!!! I do not wish to minimize the loss or risk to society from street racers and their 'accidents', but the percentage of street racers to modified cars is probably 1000:1.

No, the solution is ball breaking penalties. I mean BIG wallet busting ones. Lose your car. $20,000 fines. Jail, DEPORTATION.
]

Agreed


iIhave mixed feeling on extra facilities as being the answer BUT there is the demand and it would enable the law to be less tolerant of this activity if there were viable alternatives.[/B]

Yep, I do not believe it is THE answer, since there is no complete answer to this problem. Just as how you cannot eliminate illegal drug use no matter how many alternatives and rehab programs are implemented (or punishments for that matter).


However, credit where credit is due, this chap called it how it is without all the PC crap. Good for him for saying publically what everyone else is saying privately. [/B]

Yep, but along with the ethnic issue, look at the AGE issue. How many 25+ year old drivers do you see in street racing incidents? I dont see many at all, in fact most of them seem to be under 20 years of age.


I know we have an Asian board member in the US who took a little umberage at a previous discussion on this topic sggesting we be cautious about making generalizations. Although that is completely reasonable, i think this article does indicate the local issue here. [/B]

Well the facts cannot be argued with, and the facts are that the last few street racing related deaths have been caused by people who belong to a certain ethnic and age profile. This has little to do with race itself, but more to do with the socio-economic behaviours that pervade the culture and environment in which they were raised. Statistical probability will ensure that future deaths are caused by people who were raised in other segments of the population, however it is clear that a certain culture-bred mindset (intentional or not) is leading these raw statistics

Astonishing letter craig... Make sure it gets out and that it is heard no matter what. Regardless of what happens there will always be loopholes, alberta insurance, other province, it's not hard just annoying.

Xcllnt letter and I am in total agreement.
That being said Mr. Fung obviously hasn't been paying
attention to whats been happening in the auto industry
in the last few years. The horsepower war. Maybe he
wants to go after manufacturers and fine them if one of
their cars is involved in street racing. Many,many examples
of reasonably quick cars on the market now.
Lets face it, its never the car, but always the driver.

Armin

Craig, that was a very credible retort! My sincere thanks for taking the time to bang it out. Police officers (I have some as good friends) tend to deal with the ugly side of life, and therefore their views on things such as this are predictable and generally understandable. In this case the officer speaks with insufficient information on the topic, and we have you to thank for helping him and others to see the bigger picture. Again, well done!

Larry

As a Mission River's Edge Raceway/Sports Car Club of BC driver/member I'd be happy to help anyone get there feet wet in Road Race. I'll probably be looking for crew and/or a new partner on the IROC next spring due to probable disolution of a long-standing team. :)

Can you say count me in? Hehe maybe a little over eager but lets talk. I have been wanting to get into road racing but not sure if I should jump straight in with my car (expenses, is it race-worthy, am I out of my mind, etc.).

Robe,
I too am extremely interested in joining the road racing scene. Craig and I have spoken about this as well informally, and I would love any and all advice/opportunities. Please send me the details!!! :D

Robe, I aswell would be very interested in road racing next year, I want to take a few lessons in the spring!

Well, that was a quick response, just what you need to be a Road Racer!;)

For Draco, LuCiFeR97Z28, and todd15:

We can get together and talk about this. There's lots of time till next March when the driving school begins. If you each can send a little info about your expectations and your experience/skills to the email address in my profile, I'll get back to you with a date and location for us all to meet. Should be fun! Check the IROC out while you're at it, the URL is in the profile too.

Larry:D

I must admit that i've always had a thing for road racing too

i just dont like auto-x cuz i get lost between all those damn cones .. they all look the same :mad:

anyways .. keep me informed about the road racing plans ...

it will be a compromise for me to setup my car for both drag and road racing .... but i cant be playing Gran Turismo 3 on playstation 2 for the rest of my life either ;) :dead:

I was just discusing with my (middle aged) assistant this article in tha paper. She agreed it was very good and of course I got into my thoughts on the issue including the "ban" on modifying your car.

We had a long debate on that issue as she agrees there SHOULD be a ban. However, she DID come up with an interesting alternative.

It does not seem COMPLETELY unreasonable to me that there should be some type of licensing process or - sorry to say this guys - an age restriction on modifing cars.

Lets say that you have to take a specialty driving school to be allowed to drive a modified car. That seems both reasonable and appropriate. She suggests there shold be an age restriction, say 25 years old as well. I know how you guys would feel about that.

Just consider the suggestions with an open mind. Maybe if you are under 25 years old you have to take an advanced driving school course?

All I'm saying is that it would be a compromise, an attempt by society to do something to address the issue and a tool for the police to deal with young problem drivers. Lets face it, taking an advanced driving school is not a bad idea anyway.

I'm not suggesting that it would stop the problem but it would help.

Again I'm not suggesting this would help our local "cultural" issue, but most other jurisdications that have private insurance charge a heavy insurance price to young drivers and that gets worse with more powerful cars. You young guys have it very good in that way. Maybe our young US cousins will chime in with their insurance costs.

Anyway, food for thought.

I say the age restriction is a ridiculous idea :)

Being older doesn't insure that you will be a better driver in anyway. The most simple fix which should be implemented before anything else is the construction of another track one that is in a neutral location and well open more than just once a week...........

That mod/age restruction doesn't sound like a very good idea to me...

A new viper comes with 500+ rwtq from the factory. You would have to heavily modify any other car to come close to this, yet you would be regulated whereas the owner of the viper would not be?

I think that even heavily modified cars can be driven on the street just as safely as stock cars. My car is not an extreme powerhouse, but it is definitely no harder to drive then it was when it was stock (except for the clutch, but you get used to it). I have absolutely no problems in the rain, it just takes restraing on my part.

Driving habits are not a function of the car or its modifications, but of the driver, and the choices he/she makes. It's the drivers we need to regulate, but in my opinion only if they have already proven that they do need regulating (and/or punishing). I see plenty of "adults" speeding around in their SUV's in the rain and snow deciding they can handle these conditions so much better then the rest of who dont have 4WD. They have one thing right - that if they do get into a crash, they are more likely to survive at the expense of whoever they collide with thanks to the mass and structure of their vehicle (barring a rollover).

I do however agree that advanced driving courses are a good idea - this would include wet weather emergency maneouvers, and stuff like that. I bet that 90% of the driving population does not know how to conduct a proper emergency stop/evasion in wet conditions, even if they have ABS on their cars.

I'm not a huge fan of higher insurance costs (in fact, most youths pay more then safe adult drivers anyway since they get no intial discount) - since there are quite a few safe youth drivers. I like the idea of charging high insurance rates to those who actually cause accidents, just like they do it now (this fits well with the premise that one is innocent until proven guilty).

Let's keep the discussion going guys, that is how we can possibly make a difference. We may even need all this as ammunition to help save our car culture.

Lets use a interesting analogy.

I think Canadians are happy that they do not have the gun culture that the Amerivcans have.

the NRA says, "guns don't kill people, pople kill people". And we in Canada say "yes, but if you don't have the guns laying around everywhere, people would have access to them to use them."

Modded cars don't kill people, people in modded cars kill people. That being said, if you make it more difficult for people to have modded cars - without banning them completely - you reduce the likelyhood that the modded car is abused.

Bottom line it is people. The modded car community HAS to put some tangible ideas on the table to assist society in dealing with the "proplem" people.

If that includes the car enthusiast community saying "yes, lets require a licensing process before being allowed to drive a moded car" then fine. Yes I know that the chap in quesiton may say, "well rather then modding my civic, I;'m just going to go buy a loaded TT Supra" well so be it.

Johnny:
quote "Being older doesn't insure that you will be a better driver in anyway"

No it doesn't BUT there is absolutely irrefutable proof that the majority of accidents remain young males. In both absolute terms and in demographic breakdown. Let me ask you this. You do a "burnout" at PK. Does that make you a "bad driver"? By whose definition? Not by yours and not by mine, but I'm araid 95% of the populatoin would define that as "bad driving". See my point?

We all agree on the problem. there are many routes to a solution and candidly they will not solve the problem. BUT we have to have ideas to help mitigate the problem. (new facilities, licensing etc)

Although you have to look at it this way, why should younger drivers be required to take advanced driving courses if they want a modded car? Why not make it so that anyone who wants a modded car would need to take such a course. The reason the majority of accidents point towards younger drivers is because there is more people under the age of 25 with Sports Cars. Even at that I don't think that will change anything, look we all take the driving test and well we learn that we are supposed to follow all the signs and speed limits. Do you? I know I sure don't. Now does that mean if I take an advanced driving course I will follow everything taught in that course? No. I feel people are going to continue to race if they are not provided a venue to enjoy there hobby, dozens of regulations can be put into place people will still continue to race. There isn't a venue to enjoy the hobby so right now the place to get the thrills is at a stop light.

Look at it this way Shaun. You have put a lot of money into your car now and a lot of hard work. Say next season people stay away from racing on the streets and well decide to visit the local track for all there thrills. Well with this in mind the track will be more packed than it was all last year. Say you don't make it in time or don't get through tech in time or well if they only get around to the domestic class 2-3 times in the night. Say these problems limit you to very few or no runs over say a period of 3-4 months.

I want you to answer this truthfully: After spending endless amounts of time, money, effort to build a car and not getting an opportunity to test it out would you not go for a full throttle run on an empty street???

All this money spent on man hours, programs, equipment to stop the problem should be put into the contruction of a local track which in turn will cut down the problem more than any other measure and well in turn will create revenue ;)

After reading the posts, the general consensus is that everyone is discussing the modified car issue. Modified cars are not the problem. I know people who race their parents stock four-door family car against their friends. Just go to a high school when it lets out. Modifying cars makes them safer (suspension) if done properly. Shawn proposed the idea of the advanced driving school classes in order to have a modified car, I believe that after taking the course this would only make the street racers faster, they would know how to corner and learn how to handle the power. It is a good idea in theory, but you are forgetting the other people on the roads, the ones without the skills in stock cars, who panic when you pass them. You know the ones who as you change lanes to pass them on the hwy they panic and change lanes to avoid you.
I think if the government passes any legislation against modifying your car most of the people will just sell their cars and fork out the extra cash for a faster car. For example, instead of buying a 30 thousand dollar civic and putting 15 thousand dollars in modes they will just go buy a 45 thousand dollar Porsche.

hey buy thats just my oppinion :)

Very good point Johnny...when my car is finished in January, you can bet your ass I'm going to call my buddy in the '03 Cobra:rolleyes: :eek: in a safe mannor of course. The only way for me to feel satisfied is more track time and when I have to come all the way from North Van...over 2 bridges, after work or school, there is now way I'll get there in time. On 2 occasions, I've left work and gone straight to Mission and missed out because they've reached their max amount of cars for the evening. One of those 2 nights, some of this board's members and I went and raced for at least an hour and a half, safely, without being caught in order to get our "fix."

What I suggest is for Mission to be open on a Wednesday evening. This way, you will most likely just get the hard core racers out, be less traffic because it isn't a weekend and it will releave some of the pressure from Friday nights. It makes no difference to me whether its on a Friday or Wednesday because I work on booth of those days and it usually isn't a late night when I go to the track anyways....Plus you could save your Fridays for what they are really meant for...Partying.

I vote for wed nights!

;)

Shaun and JD: i just want to add my opinion about the age issue

its the relation between age and maturity (stupidity) that causes problems, not the relation between age and skills ...

some young drivers can be more skilled than older drivers and vice versa, but the issue here is their level of maturity / stupidity.

I know for a fact that when i was 16 i used to drive faster / do more stupid things on the road ... none of it lead to any accidents perhaps because of my level of skill... now that i'm 22, i am definately more skilled in driving.. but its the level of maturity that causes me to drive more responsibly...

so even if u put younger drivers in schools and advanced driving training ... that will only boost their confidence / cockiness (like watcher mentioned) ... as long as they are immature / irresponsible (due to age mostly) they will be dangerous on the road.

Modified cars do not kill people...it is the speeding of those modified cars that kill people. It is the speeding of ANY car, for that matter, that kills cars. This is a fact - speed is the number one factor of car-related deaths among youth. It doesn't matter if you're in a Ferrari 360, a Honda Civic, or a Camaro Z28. I probably drive faster in my winter beater than I did with my Vette or Z28....you don't need power/money/modifications to drive above the speed limit.

Speed, therefore, is the lowest common denominator in almost every street racing death in the past 5 years. Agreed, that many of the incidents involve certain minority ethnic groups. Agree, that many of the incidents involve modified vehicles. Agreed, that many of the incidents involve male drivers under the age of 25. But in order to maintain political civility and to avoid social unrest, speed is the only factor that should be targetted - this will ensure that the "wrong" socioeconomic sectors of the population are not pissed off.

With that being said - the solution must be to provide an outlet for this speed, OR training to handle this speed in a safe environment. The former option includes building new racing facilities, increasing the speed limit or legalizing, condoning, and supervising late night street racing. The latter option includes advanced driving courses and increasingly difficult license testing. I vote for an amalgamation of the aforementioned options. I disagree with harsh punishments as a stand alone solution...they should be used in conjunction with the other options.

As a side note, this month's Car and Driver has an interesting article on the horsepower war between Chrysler, Ford and GM. The next generation Corvette, the GT40 and the Viper are expected to peak abover 450 HP...they are dubbed as "street-legal" race cars from the factory. I'm excited by this news, but you can bet you'll see a lot more cars wrapped around telephone poles in the next 5 years on your way home from the office :alert: .

Originally posted by sideways_Into_3rd
Shaun and JD: i just want to add my opinion about the age issue

its the relation between age and maturity (stupidity) that causes problems, not the relation between age and skills ...

some young drivers can be more skilled than older drivers and vice versa, but the issue here is their level of maturity / stupidity.

I know for a fact that when i was 16 i used to drive faster / do more stupid things on the road ... none of it lead to any accidents perhaps because of my level of skill... now that i'm 22, i am definately more skilled in driving.. but its the level of maturity that causes me to drive more responsibly...

so even if u put younger drivers in schools and advanced driving training ... that will only boost their confidence / cockiness (like watcher mentioned) ... as long as they are immature / irresponsible (due to age mostly) they will be dangerous on the road.

This is also my point. As one grows older, one becomes more conservative in their driving no matter what the "skill" level.

lucifer's point is well taken, a combination of all the above will HELP reduce the problem but will not completly remove it. Maturity IS the point and that cannot be taught but you can put in place initiatives that make is easier to be a lot less tolarant of violations.

Imagine theat the licensing was made more difficult, advanced driving classes, race facilities etc. if you HAD those in place it would provide no "excuse" to those violating the law.

I'm all for the race track. Trying to get out to mission on time has been the biggest reason why I've never met up with you guys out there. Hell, I haven't even seen what the track looks like except when I flew over it during my flying lessons.
I also agree that modded cars are not the issue. That civic that killed the cop in richmond was bone stock. Yet it said Si, or whatever, and it has two doors. So its called a sports car. What I'm trying to say is that, you can take ANY car and make it into a weapon. My sisters Jetta TDI can turn into a weapon with its measly 90 HP if I drive it a certain way. The cars are not to blame or are the modifications that we do to it.
Anyone here that has spent their own money fixing their cars up knows how hard it is to maintain our hobbies. I know that when I was a kid (16-19) I did think I was invincible in my moms 4 door V8 Cutlass. And I tried to prove by mashing the accelerator everychance I got. Now I'm older, some say "wiser" and not only do I get no Speeding tickets"KNock on WOOD" or get in any my fault accidents I also take care of my car, myself and others on the road.
We've all had the temptation to hit the pedal every so often to feel that power as we leave a light or as we pass a mustang on the freeway, but most of us are smart enough to look around , in the rearview and in front of us to see if its safe. (And of course that there's no cops around);)
I also think that it is becoming increasingly "cool" to go to the track and get an official timeslip that we can use as bragging rights. Plus you don't have to worry about the cops taking away your liscense and/ or car. For those of us that are older/wiser should be teaching the younger or less experience people around that the track is a safe alternative just like a shooting range is.
We should also see if maybe there is something we can do to start a racetrack closer to here ie(Langley, Port Kells) Hell I'd put it on my farm if the neighbours didn't complain so much about my car. We've all talked about it and we all heard people talking about it, but I haven't seen anything done about it. I'm willing to help as much as I can to present this alternative to the public, is anyone else? maybe we canWe've all come up with some great alternatives and ideas. Maybe we should put them to use, like the response to the article was.

Anyways, just my two cents worth.;)

Has anyone here contacted the club Executive of the Mission track? They may have been working on this problem already??

:confused: :confused:

I think contacting them may be a good idea. I for one would love to see at least one more day for drag racing. It would be great to see events like import vs. domestic shootouts, ford vs. GM, club shootouts, etc.

Very well written.

We should try and get that in the paper.. Anyone know an editor?

Duane

what is the link to the story? the one u posted draco is dead

That's because this thread is from 2002 :dead:

Originally posted by raene
That's because this thread is from 2002 :dead:

:lol:

Originally posted by raene
That's because this thread is from 2002 :dead:

oh yah.. now i see that too... the supra guy brought the thread back from 2002