2009 camaro pricing?

anyone know what the price may be for the new hotrod?

Its not perfect, but I did a lot of research so the prices should be close:

http://64.65.63.61/forums/showthread.php?t=448548

Read the entire thread, this has been discussed multiple times.

One Million Dollars... [/Dr.Evil]

Expect within a few hundred dollars of equivalent Mustang.

I hope it isn't near the pricing on the other post.. I can't see someone spending 36 K for a V6 camaro...

A 2009 Camaro?! :eek:

j/k ;)

From everything we've heard, GM plans to price the car competitively with the Mustang, so V6 = V6, V8 = V8 :thumb:.

I hope it isn't near the pricing on the other post.. I can't see someone spending 36 K for a V6 camaro...

Why? People spend the equivalent (a few thousand less) to that on fully loaded V6 convertible Mustangs today. But go back and see what that encompasses as far as content and it should make more sense to you. I also have all the prices broken down in post 3.

But also realize I have no rebates or any other discounts that you usually see figured into these prices.

I read somewhere that both Chevy and Dodge might be moving the prices up a little bit, not too much hopefully, due to costs in making them. The Mustang supposedly is really cheap to make, while both the Camaro and Challenger are on more expensive platforms. With the Camaro, it shouldnt be that big of a deal because its platform will be produced more widely than Chryslers LX. Just as a side note, I read that there isnt even gonna be a V6 Challenger because the boys over at Dodge cant figure out how to justify selling it for such a low price on such an expensive platform. The Camaro on the other hand will also have a more expensive V6 than the Mustang, so we could see the price go up on the base model as well. Not to worry though, the price adjustement should be justified considering that the Camaro will be more classy than the Stang in almost every way. And even then, Ford is completly redesigning the Mustang about a year after the Camaro, so they will run into the same issues.

A higher price (over mustang) is what I think screwed over the f-body last time.( or at least one reason) I remember one of the last few years of the F-Body, 2000 I think. I went to a dealership and couldn't get into a V6 camaro for less than 22K, where comparable v6 Mustangs were selling for 15-17K. A fully loaded v6 camaro SHOULD ONLY be around 25K. It's just stupid to buy a V6 Camaro for one price when you can buy a V8 for cheaper... No wonder GM screws the pooch.

One Million Dollars... [/Dr.Evil]
http://arbyte.us/blog_archive/2005/11/drevil_million_dollars.jpg

I feel GM's actions and if your pricing is anywhere near correct will backfire and sales will keep getting lower till it is axed again.

Why: well older 30 years + like me have moved into 4 door sports sedans as we begin familes. Our tastes have changed. I would rather own a 350Z or a 4 door truck over a 09 camaro at those prices. As we grow older I think were looking for a more refined power.

My opinion
Base V6 19,500 ideally 14 or 15K to sell mass quantity.
Loaded 26,000 ideally 21K
SS 28,000 ideally 26K
Z28 29,500~32,300 ideally 28K

... I read that there isnt even gonna be a V6 Challenger because the boys over at Dodge cant figure out how to justify selling it for such a low price on such an expensive platform...

The Challenger will be built on the same platform as the 300, Magnum and Charger. That means that it can be produced on an assembly line with minimal tool-up costs (compared to a whole new platform). The high quantities of the 300, magnum and charger mean that the challenger doesn't need to be a big seller to be profitable, because it's going to actually be inexpensive to produce. Also, you can already get a v6 magnum for under 20 grand, and a v6 300 and charger can't be much more. There's no reason why Dodge wouldn't offer an affordable V6 challenger. They already have everything they need for it!

The Challenger will be built on the same platform as the 300, Magnum and Charger. That means that it can be produced on an assembly line with minimal tool-up costs (compared to a whole new platform). The high quantities of the 300, magnum and charger mean that the challenger doesn't need to be a big seller to be profitable, because it's going to actually be inexpensive to produce. Also, you can already get a v6 magnum for under 20 grand, and a v6 300 and charger can't be much more. There's no reason why Dodge wouldn't offer an affordable V6 challenger. They already have everything they need for it!

There's one BIG reason they wouldn't (and probably won't) offer a V6 Challenger, at least initially, and it's implicit in your post. Remember that Brampton will be building Charger, 300, Magnum, Challenger, the export-only 300 Touring, and possibly two other vehicles. They may not be able to build more than 40k-50k Challengers a year. (First year production may be only 30k. Flex lines are new to Chrysler, and building Challenger at Brampton is something of a proof-of-concept deal for them.) Margins on the Hemi-powered LXs are SIGNIFICANTLY higher than on the V6s. If there's demand for 40k V8 Challengers a year, and they can only build 40k Challengers a year while maintaining a market-correct supply of the sedans (etc.), why would they bother with V6s?

There was an article posted here about them considering it. Chryslers taken a big hit with gas prices and have probably considered that 40k V8 only retro coupe will be something of a premature ejaculator.

Why? People spend the equivalent (a few thousand less) to that on fully loaded V6 convertible Mustangs today. But go back and see what that encompasses as far as content and it should make more sense to you. I also have all the prices broken down in post 3.

But also realize I have no rebates or any other discounts that you usually see figured into these prices.


Haven't checked in three years but I think you're wrong, or where you live prices are borked.
When I bought my 03 GT in late 02 for 19k(base, no leather etc), fully loaded black on black GT vert was going for 31k.
36k for a V6 stang? I'd die of laughter if I saw one.
With that said, if the new Camaro is 32k or less(not the base model either), I'll buy one. Any more than that, and I don't know.

Haven't checked in three years but I think you're wrong, or where you live prices are borked.
When I bought my 03 GT in late 02 for 19k(base, no leather etc), fully loaded black on black GT vert was going for 31k.
36k for a V6 stang? I'd die of laughter if I saw one.
With that said, if the new Camaro is 32k or less(not the base model either), I'll buy one. Any more than that, and I don't know.

DO me a favor.....

Go to ford.com

Price out a fully loaded V8 Mustang vert....

Take that price and add a 3% increase for inflation over the next few years.

Then add between $500 to $1000 more because that is the Camaro’s target price range to a comparable Mustang.

I bet you come pretty darn close to what a fully loaded 2009 Camaro V8 vert will cost and what I have figured.

Now, I will also say, I did not include any rebates in my figures. I'm willing to bet your car was purchased less than MSRP.

I'm not figuring actual purchase price. I'm figuring MSRP.

And I'll bet you I'm somewhere with in $1000 of the actual Camaro price in a few years.

Now I will also say I built that options sheet months ago and I know things have changed since then. I need to update it. But the numbers are still close.

There was an article posted here about them considering it. Chryslers taken a big hit with gas prices and have probably considered that 40k V8 only retro coupe will be something of a premature ejaculator.

It depends on a lot of factors: demand for a V6 Challenger, demand for the other cars built at Brampton, their success at implementing flex, etc., etc. If they can't move the iron with a V8 then of course they will consider V6 variants.

Last I heard, the inside word was still saying that the first year's run would be Hemi-only, your choice of 5.7 or 6.1. Bigger Hemi (and V6s, if any) to follow.

Just in case you missed it in the forum….I made another pricing thread…….

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=490016

Why? People spend the equivalent (a few thousand less) to that on fully loaded V6 convertible Mustangs today. But go back and see what that encompasses as far as content and it should make more sense to you. I also have all the prices broken down in post 3.

But also realize I have no rebates or any other discounts that you usually see figured into these prices.

Haven't checked in three years but I think you're wrong, or where you live prices are borked.
When I bought my 03 GT in late 02 for 19k(base, no leather etc), fully loaded black on black GT vert was going for 31k.
36k for a V6 stang? I'd die of laughter if I saw one.
With that said, if the new Camaro is 32k or less(not the base model either), I'll buy one. Any more than that, and I don't know.

DO me a favor.....

Go to ford.com

Price out a fully loaded V8 Mustang vert....

Take that price and add a 3% increase for inflation over the next few years.

Then add between $500 to $1000 more because that is the Camaro’s target price range to a comparable Mustang.

I bet you come pretty darn close to what a fully loaded 2009 Camaro V8 vert will cost and what I have figured.

Now, I will also say, I did not include any rebates in my figures. I'm willing to bet your car was purchased less than MSRP.

I'm not figuring actual purchase price. I'm figuring MSRP.

And I'll bet you I'm somewhere with in $1000 of the actual Camaro price in a few years.

Now I will also say I built that options sheet months ago and I know things have changed since then. I need to update it. But the numbers are still close.


A V6 mustang with EVERY high cost option is 30,000 dollars. 6000 is a big difference, not to mention almost no one buys a V6 with every option box checked. A fully loaded GT vert is 35500.

I don't know why people insist on pretending to have a clue what they are talking about with these cars. It's all speculation, and pretty pointless. The car will cost what GM decides it costs when it gets rolled out.

I don't know why people insist on pretending to have a clue what they are talking about with these cars. It's all speculation, and pretty pointless. The car will cost what GM decides it costs when it gets rolled out.

That is great insight. As a matter of fact since so one really knows anything about the Camaro yet seeing as it still has 2 years until it's official release, I say that we just close down the '09 Camaro portion of the board all together. What are people thinking coming around here and speculating.... ;)

I don’t know people keep coming in here insisting that we DON’T know anything about this new Camaro :lol:

That is great insight. As a matter of fact since so one really knows anything about the Camaro yet seeing as it still has 2 years until it's official release, I say that we just close down the '09 Camaro portion of the board all together. What are people thinking coming around here and speculating.... ;)

I don’t know people keep coming in here insisting that we DON’T know anything about this new Camaro :lol:

There is a difference between speculating about it and posting "pricing guides". Forgive me if I am wrong, but this is "News and discussion", which I would interpret as discussion about news on the Camaro.

There is a difference between speculating about it and posting "pricing guides". Forgive me if I am wrong, but this is "News and discussion", which I would interpret as discussion about news on the Camaro.

I never said my pricing guide were anything but speculation. But they are educated speculation and I dare you to find anything more detailed.



Geeeezzz......chill out.....I'm just trying to give people a guide to figuring out what the 5th gen might cost....

I'm sorry if I have more of a clue than you.......:rolleyes:

Geeeezzz......chill out.....I'm just trying to give people a guide to figuring out what the 5th gen might cost....


I am sure more of us appreciate your effort than not... Good job! :thumb:

I never said my pricing guide were anything but speculation. But they are educated speculation and I dare you to find anything more detailed.



Geeeezzz......chill out.....I'm just trying to give people a guide to figuring out what the 5th gen might cost....

I'm sorry if I have more of a clue than you.......:rolleyes:

I am pretty sure I have many, many more facts about the car than you, but if it makes you feel better, knock yourself out.

DO me a favor.....

Go to ford.com

Price out a fully loaded V8 Mustang vert....

Take that price and add a 3% increase for inflation over the next few years.

Then add between $500 to $1000 more because that is the Camaro’s target price range to a comparable Mustang.

I bet you come pretty darn close to what a fully loaded 2009 Camaro V8 vert will cost and what I have figured.

Now, I will also say, I did not include any rebates in my figures. I'm willing to bet your car was purchased less than MSRP.

I'm not figuring actual purchase price. I'm figuring MSRP.

And I'll bet you I'm somewhere with in $1000 of the actual Camaro price in a few years.

Now I will also say I built that options sheet months ago and I know things have changed since then. I need to update it. But the numbers are still close.

Again poopy pants...if you think 36 is KEWL for a V6 vert with every option under the sun......don't move to my location. We do not pay that.
You need to quit your "mrs cleo" of price options.
Your inflation predictions does not relfect what goes on in the real world.
In my neck of the woods a 12$ an hour job is great. So do the cleo on that one. And yea, you may not care, but the bottom line of GM does when they want to sell a car. ;)
Glad to see you edited your other ignorant price post too, and no, I AM the FATHER. I bought my 03 GT for 19k, if your envious, sorry tadpole. :cool:

I never said my pricing guide were anything but speculation. But they are educated speculation and I dare you to find anything more detailed.



Geeeezzz......chill out.....I'm just trying to give people a guide to figuring out what the 5th gen might cost....

I'm sorry if I have more of a clue than you.......:rolleyes:

You need to have a cup of STFU, and quit your BS....;)

I don’t know people keep coming in here insisting that we DON’T know anything about this new Camaro :lol:


You don't. You need to stick a sock in the pie hole brother.
Sorry. :(

I am pretty sure I have many, many more facts about the car than you, but if it makes you feel better, knock yourself out.

You don't. You need to stick a sock in the pie hole brother.
Sorry. :(

Ok. If I judge by your join date and not post count you're obviously not total ****ing n00bs.

We have SEVERAL people on this site that are in positions to be in the know for GM and Ford. At least one of which has repeatedly put himself in harms way to bring information to this site. And thats been since 2002, not since the concept came out and bunch of trolls swarm the section with post about how "Oh so cool the SS is." because their memory only goes to 1996.

Furthermore, those people here who do know WTF they are talking about, sometimes share more with some than others, for obvious reasons. Safe to say Stefan isn't totally shooting in the dark here.

Even if he was, Its more than Ive seen either of you contribute, so I think it would be much more expedient if you STFU.

[/JasonD]

I just assume $30k + or - $10k

Ok. If I judge by your join date and not post count you're obviously not total ****ing n00bs.

We have SEVERAL people on this site that are in positions to be in the know for GM and Ford. At least one of which has repeatedly put himself in harms way to bring information to this site. And thats been since 2002, not since the concept came out and bunch of trolls swarm the section with post about how "Oh so cool the SS is." because their memory only goes to 1996.

Furthermore, those people here who do know WTF they are talking about, sometimes share more with some than others, for obvious reasons. Safe to say Stefan isn't totally shooting in the dark here.

Even if he was, Its more than Ive seen either of you contribute, so I think it would be much more expedient if you STFU.

[/JasonD]

Do you sign Deblers name to your posts often?

I've been around the site much longer than my sig shows, and I know more about the 5th gen than most people know. Stephan may not be totally shooting in the dark, but saying "people have no problem paying 36000 for a V6 Mustang", as a stat to come up with pricing for a car that isn't even built yet is a bit offbase. On top of that, there is no $36,000 dollar V6 Mustang. So, like I said, speculation is pointless, and people getting all giddy about "pricing" their new Camaro when there is no procing for it, is silly, and seems like a waste of time to me. TO ME. You know, an opinion, just like what his OPINION of the pricing will be.

SO, why don't you STFU.

Nope, first time I thought I had pretty good handle on the coming ownage.

And Id prefer not to STFU, thank up you. However long you've been on this site it should be obvious the great majority of post in a few sections is speculation. If thats not something you're interested in then perhaps you should steer clear, as apposed to being a thread crapping douche.

Nope, first time I thought I had pretty good handle on the coming ownage.

And Id prefer not to STFU, thank up you. However long you've been on this site it should be obvious the great majority of post in a few sections is speculation. If thats not something you're interested in then perhaps you should steer clear, as apposed to being a thread crapping douche.

Well, I am pretty sure Jason isn't going to come in here and "own" me because of my post...I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
This section is "news and discussion", which, as I have already said once, I interpret to mean NEWS about the 5th gen, then discussion of that news. However, I never said he shouldn't post his opinion/speculation about the car, just that it seems like a pointless endeavour.

Seeing how this is the next thread down... Id say he could do a lot worse...

Ok So On The New Camaro Thats Comming Out Which One Do U Want..or Which 1 Do U Want 2 Be Ultimate Performance Version???z28 Or Ss??

Z28 all the way. Everyday gayass car has an SS version now a days.:cool:

Pointless AND already been done. :lol:

Seeing how this is the next thread down... Id say he could do a lot worse...





Pointless AND already been done. :lol:

:lol:

Unfortuantly, I don't have the motivation to tell EVERYONE to STFU:lol:
This thread only caught my attention because a friend of mine was all excited because they released the pricing for the 09 Camaro...."it's on CZ28". I had to hurt his feelings.

1) I like speculation, keep bringing it, spread it on!

2) The last I checked it was standard procedure for cost estimating, when there is no direct cost information regarding the product, to use a direct competitor's costs, bump it up by the appropriate inflation factor for the desired year and throw on an x factor if your product historically has a cost difference than the competitor.

3) What in the hell does it matter what an 03 mustang costs in late 2002 when we are comparing prices in 2009. that is about as relevant as using 2002 steel prices to cost estimate a bridge to be built in 2009.

4) Why people insist upon wasting their time to tell people they are doing something that is waste of time is retarded. This is not complicated, if you don't like speculation, which seems to be the majority of what is discussed when no fresh news is out, then you won't like the people that post here or what they post. So take your own advice, don't post, don't read it, don't waste your time. Everybody else here is going to go on wasting their time.

Ok. If I judge by your join date and not post count you're obviously not total ****ing n00bs.

We have SEVERAL people on this site that are in positions to be in the know for GM and Ford. At least one of which has repeatedly put himself in harms way to bring information to this site. And thats been since 2002, not since the concept came out and bunch of trolls swarm the section with post about how "Oh so cool the SS is." because their memory only goes to 1996.

Furthermore, those people here who do know WTF they are talking about, sometimes share more with some than others, for obvious reasons. Safe to say Stefan isn't totally shooting in the dark here.

Even if he was, Its more than Ive seen either of you contribute, so I think it would be much more expedient if you STFU.

[/JasonD]


Well, if you KNOW I will go out and buy a new V6 Camaro for 40k, you are VERY mistaken.
If these little bull**** predictions are right, you guys will be the way you are now in 3 years.
A site with a dead overpriced car.
I don't care what the car can do NA(which is the reason I would like to have one), if they THINK I will pay 40k for a V6, and over 40k for a V8..........HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
And all you guys do that support this BS, is putting the final nail in the coffin brother.
Whatever, make your bed.
If its 25k or less, I'm game. If not, I'll enjoy my 25k or less GT.
;)

Price of a fully loaded 2007 V6 vert mustang today is...

$32965

Noone may buy that car and noone may buy a 2009 36k V6 vert, but they may buy a 30k vert. It is all speculation. 36k maybe correct, or it maybe high or low. It is not far off.

Sephiroth, Look at stars1010 price list again. He speculates a Camaro V6 Base vert at 25270 and a Mustang V6 Base vert at 26170 in 2009. If you go to the Mustang website it lists the Mustang Vert ranging from 25k-47k in 2006. After dealer incentives, his speculation in 2009 will probably give you the base camaro V6 vert for under 25k. He speculates the SS (lower v8) ranges from 28,145 to 35,285. That would be a fully loaded V8 under 40k. I guess I don't understand where you are coming up with your numbers because they definitely aren't his. Either you can't read, write or do math.

Sephiroth, Look at stars1010 price list again. He speculates a Camaro V6 Base vert at 25270 and a Mustang V6 Base vert at 26170 in 2009. If you go to the Mustang website it lists the Mustang Vert ranging from 25k-47k in 2006. After dealer incentives, his speculation in 2009 will probably give you the base camaro V6 vert for under 25k. He speculates the SS (lower v8) ranges from 28,145 to 35,285. That would be a fully loaded V8 under 40k. I guess I don't understand where you are coming up with your numbers because they definitely aren't his. Either you can't read, write or do math.

Thank you........... but if you noticed my lack of posting.......... I don’t even try to argue with idiots who don’t read and just flame people.........the e-wangs in here are just too big for my time......I suggest you don’t waste yours either.

Thank you........... but if you noticed my lack of posting.......... I don’t even try to argue with idiots who don’t read and just flame people.........the e-wangs in here are just too big for my time......I suggest you don’t waste yours either.

That's cool. :cool: If you can ignore it, then I'll back down as well. Sometimes I can't help but stick up for who I agree with, when very few are.

Again poopy pants...if you think 36 is KEWL for a V6 vert with every option under the sun......don't move to my location. We do not pay that.
You need to quit your "mrs cleo" of price options.
Your inflation predictions does not relfect what goes on in the real world.
In my neck of the woods a 12$ an hour job is great. So do the cleo on that one. And yea, you may not care, but the bottom line of GM does when they want to sell a car. ;)
Glad to see you edited your other ignorant price post too, and no, I AM the FATHER. I bought my 03 GT for 19k, if your envious, sorry tadpole. :cool:



What really kills me about this whole thread is that someone (for the umpteenth time, but I'll pass on that this round) comes here looking for a price of a car that's 2 years away..... don't forget we can't even price the Lecrosse Super, the new Cadillac CTS, and Lincoln MKS, all due within just 12 months. Stars refers the questioner to his thread which has very reasonable assumptions, includes 2 years worth of inflation, and gets flamed by someone who IMO is quick with the mouth and slow with the brain.

Since I can't draw pictures, here's what he's done in steps.

1. Bob Lutz when pressed on pricing says the Camaro will be priced within a certain price of Mustang. I can't remember if it was a few hundred dollars or a thousand, and I don't feel like taking the time to look it up right now. Regardless, that's the ballpark.

2. Stars went to the Ford website and got the pricing of the current Mustang line, complete with options.

3. He added in 2 years worth of inflation. He figured it at an unrealistically low 3%, but with the pressures on all car makers to avoid rasing prices to match costs, and the fact that prices have risen below inflation rates for at least the past few years, 3% is probally reasonable.

Latching on to a $36K Mustang & flaming him for it is pretty bad because:

A. It's ALL obviously speculation, and at least he didn't pull these numbers out of his rear end.

B. He's the only person who had the foresight enough to realize that car prices (as with everything else we buy) isn't going to remain static for 3 years (if it does, that means we'll have deflation, which is even worse than inflation (think depression-era) and he included that in his estimates.

C. Finally, of course there's going to be very few people who are going to get a V6 Mustang with every option possible. But if they did, it's be just over $30,000 (more for the Shelby C6).

It doesn't matter where you live, or if $12 per hour buys you a mansion in Wisconsin. Minimum goes over $8 in California January 1st, and many cities in the bay area have minimum wage of $10, so $12 is alot of money in depressed areas, but won't buy you dinner for 2 at Wendys in others. In short, someone somewhere buys loaded $30K+ V6 Mustangs.... or Ford wouldn't be making them..... and neither would Shelby.

A higher price (over mustang) is what I think screwed over the f-body last time.( or at least one reason) I remember one of the last few years of the F-Body, 2000 I think. I went to a dealership and couldn't get into a V6 camaro for less than 22K, where comparable v6 Mustangs were selling for 15-17K. A fully loaded v6 camaro SHOULD ONLY be around 25K. It's just stupid to buy a V6 Camaro for one price when you can buy a V8 for cheaper... No wonder GM screws the pooch.

I now know why posts like that makes Scotts skin crawl. :mad:

Do me a favor pal. Do a Google search and find out what the base price of Camaro V6s were and compare that to same year Mustang V6s. Also, look at how much money GM was putting on the hood to move them. And please don't croak on us from having your foot in your mouth when you find the answers.

If dealers in your area were scalping Camaro V6s, then you were probally in the only county in the country where GM didn't have to unleash a load of cash to get people to buy them.


There's one BIG reason they wouldn't (and probably won't) offer a V6 Challenger, at least initially, and it's implicit in your post. Remember that Brampton will be building Charger, 300, Magnum, Challenger, the export-only 300 Touring, and possibly two other vehicles. They may not be able to build more than 40k-50k Challengers a year. (First year production may be only 30k. Flex lines are new to Chrysler, and building Challenger at Brampton is something of a proof-of-concept deal for them.) Margins on the Hemi-powered LXs are SIGNIFICANTLY higher than on the V6s. If there's demand for 40k V8 Challengers a year, and they can only build 40k Challengers a year while maintaining a market-correct supply of the sedans (etc.), why would they bother with V6s?

Current plans have NO V6 Challenger on the horizon. Not in 2008. Not in 2009. Not in 2010.

Why?

If Dodge sells alot of base level V6 Challengers, the whole program looses money.

How?

Challenger has a break even point. Say, for this example, that's somewhere around 25K per car average wholesale (and dealers tack on a few grand or more and run it at $29-30K). Now with that figure, you know that cars like Camaro & Mustang get their existence from the sales of V6 versions.

Here's Chrysler's problem:
If they sell alot of V6s (under that break even point) and they need to jack up the price of the already borderline profit Challenger to balence it out. Or they can sell a base Challenger at that $25K break even point, meaning upper 20s for a V6 Challenger when a Mustang V6 sells for about 20.

Solution, only sell the versions that will move above that pricepoint. In this case the V8.

As for volume, anyone thinking Chrysler will move 50,000 or more V8 high performance cars (to be very frank) has brain damage. If Chrysler was selling low priced V6 versions as well, then I'd say it's possible. Ford sold 10-12k $32k Cobras, 8K $29K Mach 1. Pontiac moved no more than 14K of it's $30K+ WS6 Trans Ams. Camaro SS ran about 12K as well. The entire Monte Carlo line hasn't run much over 50K per year since the begining of the decade. And that's with twice the dealers, 3/4 the price, and a full model line.

Realistically, I'd say Chrysler has a shot at running 20-30K Challengers annually, tops. Better than the GTO, but not as good as a performance sedan might do.