Hey Guy!! Here's your chance to own a GTO and a Ute!

If only Pontiac / Holden woulda'...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pontiac-GTO-2004-GTO-Ute-LS1-Holden_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ7244QQihZ008QQit emZ180042892815QQrdZ1

lol, I saw that earlier, and Guy was the first one I thought of!

Holy Jeebus that is ugly! lol

If it was an 04, wouldn't it have an LS2?

So would you have to send this out of the country within a year?

Kill it... Kill it now.

If it was an 04, wouldn't it have an LS2?


04 GTO had LS1, 05 (or 06?) models had 400 HP power plants.

04 GTO had LS1, 05 (or 06?) models had 400 HP power plants.

2004 - 350hp LS1
2005-06 - 400hp LS2

Chris

I don't care what anyone says, I like it. Looks like it's a Maloo, even though it says GTO.

something about how the GTO front end was installed just isn't making it flow well.

that being said, the more I see the Ute, the more I want them to be in the U.S.

The guy is taking wrecked GTOs and wrecked Utes and putting them together. Somehow, I'm not sure I would want to buy that car. :D

Also, FYI, this guy was banned from ls1gto.com.

:lol: Don't tempt him. Atascadero would be a short drive for him to pick it up. :lol:

Intriguing, and not too far away. :think:


But there's 2 problems.

First, how much was he expecting to get?! If memory serves, the models are far cheaper than the $30,000 bid, and since bidding closed without the minimum being met, he was expecting a ridiculous amount.

Second, and more ominous, the car is probally either illegal or about to be. Cars from overseas can be brought in for a certain period (a year if I'm not mistaken) for personal use, after which it must be shipped back. Most of the Holdens and Aussie Fords that end up here are from Aussies who work briefly here in the US, and it makes far more sense to pay to bring their own car over that to lease a car for the length of time they're here. LHD Oz cars come here via the middle east. As soon as some of them find out they can get far more for their car here than back home to some yank with money, they sell them, and not only get a ton of money, but save on the return shipping (much like selling your '05 Impala in another country & easily getting $40 grand for it).

Thanks for remembering me, though. :D

Second, and more ominous, the car is probally either illegal or about to be. Cars from overseas can be brought in for a certain period (a year if I'm not mistaken) for personal use, after which it must be shipped back. Most of the Holdens and Aussie Fords that end up here are from Aussies who work briefly here in the US, and it makes far more sense to pay to bring their own car over that to lease a car for the length of time they're here. LHD Oz cars come here via the middle east. As soon as some of them find out they can get far more for their car here than back home to some yank with money, they sell them, and not only get a ton of money, but save on the return shipping (much like selling your '05 Impala in another country & easily getting $40 grand for it).

Thanks for remembering me, though. :D

I think that technically it is a GTO and has it titled that way. He buys the rear half of Ute as "parts" and grafts it onto a GTO. This way, he can avoid the legalities of getting a Ute certified for US sale.

I think it looks pretty slick, about as close to a modern day El Camino you can get.

It would legally be a GTO since it was probably a "tail clip" which would be cut halfway down the windshield post and on the floorpan between the drivers seat and pedals. It would retain the GTO firewall/cowl/vin.

He describes it as just GTO front sheetmetal and a LHD conversion...not a clip exchange...but who knows?

hmm..LHD conversion??? there or here?? and kinda funny..how can you have a ute titled as a GTO?? the numbers have to mach up for it to be legal???

I think that technically it is a GTO and has it titled that way. He buys the rear half of Ute as "parts" and grafts it onto a GTO. This way, he can avoid the legalities of getting a Ute certified for US sale.

Ute is based on the long wheel base Commodore sedan & wagon. Ther's also the matter of the entire rear semi-frame assembly, including fuel tank location, the rear cab structure (where the frame attaches to), and a whole host of other structural changes, so making a Ute out of a GTO isn't very likely. It's far easier to make a GTO out of a Ute. In fact I believe in an answer to a question he even says he got the front clip from a GTO.

To answer another hypothesis, there is no way to title a Ute a GTO. The Feds would classify the Ute as a truck, so you wouldn't fool customes, the EPA, or the NHTSA, all of which would have to sign off before you could use it on public roads. But this point is completely moot because you don't "Title" anything through the Federal government anyway. You title vehicles through the state....... after it clears the Feds. In short, import a Ute & it's going to be a ute, not a goat.


However, there is one bit of truth and possibility to your idea. There MAY be a loophole in which you might be able to import a Commodore to the US as a GTO if it was assembled to GTO specifications, including the relocated fuel tank..... and came from Holden that way. :)

Here's the deal on registering a kustom kar in Kalifornia. Basically you need a CHP inspection, and to pass smog:

http://www.dmv.org/ca-california/custom-built-cars.php

I don't see how this thing could be any more illegal than half the stuff at a hot rod show. He might have subverted some import laws getting the parts into the country, but now the car is here, I rather doubt it will be deported.

To answer another hypothesis, there is no way to title a Ute a GTO. The Feds would classify the Ute as a truck, so you wouldn't fool customes, the EPA, or the NHTSA, all of which would have to sign off before you could use it on public roads. But this point is completely moot because you don't "Title" anything through the Federal government anyway. You title vehicles through the state....... after it clears the Feds. In short, import a Ute & it's going to be a ute, not a goat.


However, there is one bit of truth and possibility to your idea. There MAY be a loophole in which you might be able to import a Commodore to the US as a GTO if it was assembled to GTO specifications, including the relocated fuel tank..... and came from Holden that way. :)

In another confusing thing: how would you get insurance?:confused:

You dont register anything Holden. What you would do is ship a rear clip (rearward of firewall and back) here as a "car part." Just like having a "JDM" motor sent here.

Basically your rebuilding a GTO titled car with your own custom rear end.

You wouldnt even ship anything over here related to a vin or federalized vehivle. Just some 'replacement parts' :D

Obviously you would use a GTO dash, wiring, and pedals but the rear inner cab trim and maybe even seats would have to come over with the Ute "parts" from an Aussie parts yard.

Here's the deal on registering a kustom kar in Kalifornia. Basically you need a CHP inspection, and to pass smog:

http://www.dmv.org/ca-california/custom-built-cars.php

I don't see how this thing could be any more illegal than half the stuff at a hot rod show. He might have subverted some import laws getting the parts into the country, but now the car is here, I rather doubt it will be deported.

The problem is that it isn't a custom car. The custom car reg is for one-off custom cars without a VIN. This car has a VIN. My guess is he pulled the VIN off the GTO and transferred it to the Ute along with the GTO front nose. By California law, that is illegal. The back half and frame is what makes the vehicle and is what the VIN is tied to... not the front clip.

You might be able to sneak one conversion passed the DMV in the short run, but it'll only be a matter of time before they catch up with you.

You might be able to sneak one conversion passed the DMV in the short run, but it'll only be a matter of time before they catch up with you.
Hence the car is being sold.

Here's the deal on registering a kustom kar in Kalifornia. Basically you need a CHP inspection, and to pass smog:

http://www.dmv.org/ca-california/custom-built-cars.php

I don't see how this thing could be any more illegal than half the stuff at a hot rod show. He might have subverted some import laws getting the parts into the country, but now the car is here, I rather doubt it will be deported.

Been through this before (about 3 years ago) when I ran into a guy who had a Falcon Ute in Long Beach, and being part of the US DOT at the time, and a big Holden fan, looked into the regs and what hoops you have to jump through. It's far quicker if I just recall and write than it is to search the past 3 or so years, so here's the scoop on this:

1. First of all, California's DMV isn't the federal government. The Feds have jurisdiction over anything that enters the country, and sets the regs for it. Any car that enters the United States is subject to regulations from US Customs (fees, taxes, & duties), but also must pass EPA (smog), NHTSA and DOT regs (crash testing, mandated safety equptment, etc). Don't go through any of these, and the car rots on the pier.

2. The biggest and only loophole is bringing a car to the US for "research" or "personal use". The personal use clause if I remember is for 12 months, after which the car must be removed from the US. You can bring it back again as many times as you like, but just like a visa it can't stay permanently. This includes all those cars from Ford of Australia and Holden.

3. States enforce this rule by granting limited registration. But you have to have all your federal papers BEFORE you're going to be allowed to register your vehicle. Some states you may not have to register your car, but then you can always be pulled over at any time to have the car's papers checked. States have jurisdiction over anything on public roads. Don't think they won't pull you over. Don't think they won't impound the thing if something's wrong.

4. Finally, I believe there is also the option of bringing it over for "Off Road Use Only" or as part of a "Private Collection", which will get you past safety regs that's used on a couple of exotic cars and for car museums. Not sure if that gets you past EPA or not. Bottom line is it won't see the street.


As a result of these hurdles to jump, most of the 1 off cars that are federalized for public roads tend to be high level exotic cars or companies that not only have the capita to do it, but can sell enough of these cars to make a profit.

California's custom car regs were made with LA's car culture in mind. Backyard Billy-Bobs contraption isn't going to pass Cali's regs. But if a person puts together a well made car that passes both California's smog requirements (based on the engine's year of production) and it passes a very detailed vehicle inspection, including accurate paperwork:

As long as you have kept track of your paperwork and constructed your car according to required safety standards....

You will need the documentation to help the DMV determine that you are the owner of the vehicle―and its many parts and components....

Hang on to your invoices, manufacturers' certificates of origin, receipts, bills of sale, or junk receipts for the major components such as the frame, engine, body, and transmission....

If you need to keep any paperwork with the car, make a photocopy and use that. Keep all of your your original documents together and store them elsewhere....

A smog check certificate completed by a Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) Referee Station. Since custom-built cars do not have a year-of-origin designated by a manufacture, they must be inspected by a BAR Referee Station instead of a regular smog check facility....

And finally, depending on how much is done, you can't sell the vehicle if the buyer intends to use it on public roads.


As with the case of the seller on E-bay from Florida who was selling his Mid-East, Holden built, red Chevrolet Lumina SS LS1 6 speed over a year ago, I suspect the owner of this Ute is selling off the car because he's running towards the end of the car's legal stay.

That's a whole lot more plausible, and far more likely than thinking:
a) The guy bought a GTO.
b) The guy search Australia for a wrecked Ute.
c) The guy paid to have the Ute essentially cut in half.
d) The guy paid the freight to have about a ton of metal shipped over here.
e) The guy paid the tax on shipping this part into the country.
f) The guy cut the GTO he bought in half.
g) the guy spent the time and effort in welding in the cabin support and structural reinforcements to attach the rear frame.
h) The guy went through and rewired the car and such vitals as brake lines.
i) The guy went through the California DMV's hoops to have the car registered as a custom car.
j) ....and now before he's finished, he suddenly decides to sell the car.

I smell fish here. :think:

guionM -- that all sounds very plausible. The only question is if this guy did it by the book or not. He says he has a CA title, but it's not clear if he has a custom car title, or if he is still pretending this is a GTO. He ain't saying too much in his eBay ad. :think:

The problem is that it isn't a custom car. The custom car reg is for one-off custom cars without a VIN. This car has a VIN.
You would probably need to "total" the GTO in order to clear the VIN. Then the whole thing is salvage.

And there are insurance companies that specialize in this kind of thing -- a friend of mine works for one.

http://63.90.120.229/forums/showthread.php?t=97647&highlight=Ute

The easiest thing to do is give it to me and i'll either get a rebuilt or bonded mississippi title. Then "buy" it from me since other states recognize each others title work.

You would probably need to "total" the GTO in order to clear the VIN. Then the whole thing is salvage.

And there are insurance companies that specialize in this kind of thing -- a friend of mine works for one.
Not neccessarily in this particular case. (Being into restoring 1st gen Camaros this type of thing comes up quiet often.)

Even if the GTO was totalled and sold as a salvaged title, the guy cannot legally transfer the title of the GTO to the chassis as the chassis has a separate VIN/Title of which belongs to a Holden Ute, which isn't legal to sell in the states. To do this would be a felony. (At least that's my understanding of the how the laws apply in this state.)

well if he gets busted..post on this article..and let us know.. ;)

we deal with this all the time at work (i work at a large body shop), the firewall is what designates the car model (on a uni-body). the vin is stamped on the right side of the firewall as well as having the vin tag up top. we have cut cars in half and reinstalled the good back halves on cars, when they are done you cant even tell (factory weld points are utilized) unless you use a microscope. we have cut the fronts (firewall forward) and install new and used sheetmetal before. what causes problems is when the firewall itself is damaged and needs replaced, thats the end of that vehicle. as long as the firewall and vin plate are intact, it is still considered the car on the vin.

now, full frame is a little different, if frame is bent, but the cab still good, you can a: fix the frame, splice the frame, or b: replace the frame. you then have to register the frame with cab and firewall vin with the state which reports it. about a month later the state comes out and certifies the new cab, frame assembly.

in the case of the ute/ gto, he could have grafted a good gto firewall and front into the ute, including the motor and emissions (which makes it legal), or he could have swapped on gto sheetmetal onto the ute and just swapped vin plates which is of course illegal.

if it was assembled by splicing a gto front clip onto the ute, it would be legal and emissions certified if it had the fed emissions in place, and would be insured as a modified GTO.

this is how one of the local tuners got a rhd civic here and legal. he just swapped the us motor and emissions into it and got it certified and swapped the *** stuff back into it.

it is possible to build a car like this legally, but certain things need to be done for it to be road legal.

thanks
anthony

Very interesting.

Bottom line is this:

Do you want to gamble $30,000++ of your own hard earned money on all this?

Didn't think so.

Legalities become much simpler when you cut off the "internet lawyers" babblings and put their heads in in the noose instead and gamble on what's ACTUALLY legal and what's not. ;)