LT1 M6 vs LS1 Auto [Archive] - CamaroZ28.Com Message Board

Mikie

10-22-2006, 08:58 AM

Just cause it has a LS1 doesnt mean its fast. And NO, a LS1, with 2.73's would NOT blow him away. Especially on the street. Anything can happen on the street. It balances things out, alot of times the faster car can loose on a street race ... Streets arent prepped, traction IS a problem, and theres no lights to go off. Someone always gets the jump ...

I would bet that a 2.73 Auto LS1 would be alot closer to what he runs than you think. Sure I think in the 1/4 it would eventually pass him and win, but it aint gonna be as bad as you make it sound.

Listen to this man ! :cool:
Hardcore knows what he is talking about. Anything can and probably will happen on the street.
2.73 gears flat out suck, but then if the gearing is changed the traction can suck. There are many variables to having a quick car. Ive seen inexperienced drivers at the track make 20 passes and not get into the 13s with an LS1. This is not taking anything away from the LT1 as it is quick as well. The law of physics applies to both of these cars...:p

jrangel

10-22-2006, 10:15 PM

I seem to be kicking ass in mines with 2.73 and auto... Then again well never mine i rather not get this Lt1 Ls1 feud start again... My mods are well i havent updated my sig but Slp loudmouth catback, Slp lid/bellow. My wins mercades amg, wrx sti, various Lt1's, evolution,ws6 M6, 5+ Gt's...

darrens99formul

10-23-2006, 07:51 AM

2.73 gears flat out suck, but then if the gearing is changed the traction can suck.

Actually 2.73's kick ass on the highway. If you're an auto being challenged on the highway there is no better gear to have. But at a stop light or at a track is a different story. That's where 3.73's shine and 2.73's do kind of suck. But add a torque converter with a 2.3+ STR and now you got the best of both worlds. A car that can launch like a bat out of hell and still pull to 160+ in third gear :eek:

Good runs man.

camzaro28

10-23-2006, 02:34 PM

haha, u raced a dude named kourtney. it was black with silver stripes? stickers all over the back window? it has a magnaflow catback, but before i moved i talked to him into getting a cutout. anyway here are 2 vids of him
this one he is the 2nd race. 38 secs in. 38 secs (http://www.mistercmk.com/camzaro28/June17th_sabin.wmv)
this one u get to see a good shot of the back of it. dont mind my slow ass pass, lol (http://www.mistercmk.com/camzaro28/12.734@109.27.wmv)
i think his best time on the bottle was 13.3@107. 380/480 on the bottle
on motor, best pass IIRC 14.0@100.
dude cannot drive. and yes it is a 2.73 geared auto

Capn Pete

10-23-2006, 03:33 PM

From my experience, speaking "realistically", an average LT1 does not stand a chance against an average LS1, at the track, on the street, from a dig, or from a roll. There ARE exceptions ... I've seen (and run myself) 14-second LS1's (some days, the car and/or the track just DON'T work for you :shrug: ) and I've seen a couple 13-second LT1's, both STOCK and lightly modded (basically, CAI, cat-back).

I raced my friend's '97 Z28 M6 when my car was A4 w/4.10's, on the highway, from ~70 mph, and could walk away no problem. And yet people say A4 w/4.10's on the highway suck! ;) But to compare to an LS1 A4 w/2.73's, on the highway, they kick a$$ too :thumb:. And to say that "2.73 gears flat out suck" isn't true either :rolleyes:. I still managed to run 13.4 in the 1/4 mile with them :shrug:.

An LT1 and LS1 are always going to be a good run, but unless the LS1 driver sucks, they will usually take the win :cool:.

z28-06

10-24-2006, 12:11 AM

camzaro28

10-24-2006, 06:17 PM

nope not on the site. doubt the guy could figure out how to turn a computer on.

StLounatic

10-26-2006, 11:52 AM

He was probably just playing with you or not trying. A stock LS1 with 2.73s wouldn't have a problem with your car.

heres a video for you.
http://media.putfile.com/Mullet-Nationals-round-1

first two runs had a lt1 with mac mids and a cai. vs. a 5.0l with gt-40 ported heads/intake bolt ons, gears, and who know what else.

the 3rd race is between that mustang that lost to the lt1, vs. a ls1 car with pacesetter lts', gears, and a lid.

the last race was thr camera car "03 cobra" vs. that same bolt on ls1.

Funny the bolt on lt1 can take the mustang but the bolt on ls1 counldnt.... The lt1 and the ls1 ran about a month before the race and the lt1 put 2 cars on the ls1. That lt1 with only mac-mids and a cai also beat down another ls1 with lt's and a lid. Explain that? Didnt have jack **** to do with drivers the old 170k mile was just faster, now was that due to a lose old motor? Who knows but it happened, and the lt1 was ripped apart and quess what? Stock untouched heads and a stock cam. **** happens and not all lt1s run 14's stock.

darrens99formul

10-26-2006, 12:10 PM

Funny the bolt on lt1 can take the mustang but the bolt on ls1 counldnt.... The lt1 and the ls1 ran about a month before the race and the lt1 put 2 cars on the ls1. That lt1 with only mac-mids and a cai also beat down another ls1 with lt's and a lid. Explain that? Didnt have jack **** to do with drivers the old 170k mile was just faster, now was that due to a lose old motor? Who knows but it happened, and the lt1 was ripped apart and quess what? Stock untouched heads and a stock cam. **** happens and not all lt1s run 14's stock.

No one has to explain it. The fastest car does not always win the race. Here is an example. I was at a 1/4 mile track and talking to a fellow LS1 owner. His car was a auto 2001 TA with lid and magnaflow catback as the only mods. Temp was good and he was running 13.1-13.3 @ 104/105 all day. I was averaging 12.6-12.8 @ 109 all day. We lined up against each other once.

A betting man would have picked me all day to win since mine was the fastest car. But my car went sideways on the burnout (happens sometimes) and I couldn't get my Nittos hot. He ran 13.0 @ 105 and I spun through first and ended with a 13.2 @ 107. That's the breaks sometimes.

Fact is stock for stock the LS1 is faster. Mod for mod the LS1 is faster. But driver vs driver on the street or at a track and you now add the "human factor" into the equasion.

Anything can happen.

StLounatic

10-26-2006, 04:18 PM

No one has to explain it. The fastest car does not always win the race. Here is an example. I was at a 1/4 mile track and talking to a fellow LS1 owner. His car was a auto 2001 TA with lid and magnaflow catback as the only mods. Temp was good and he was running 13.1-13.3 @ 104/105 all day. I was averaging 12.6-12.8 @ 109 all day. We lined up against each other once.

A betting man would have picked me all day to win since mine was the fastest car. But my car went sideways on the burnout (happens sometimes) and I couldn't get my Nittos hot. He ran 13.0 @ 105 and I spun through first and ended with a 13.2 @ 107. That's the breaks sometimes.

Fact is stock for stock the LS1 is faster. Mod for mod the LS1 is faster. But driver vs driver on the street or at a track and you now add the "human factor" into the equasion.

Anything can happen.

the lt1 won the race due to being faster not the driver. the ls1 car got the mustang driver off the line but the mustang came up and passed him. The lt1 lost off the line and came back before the mustang guy missed the gear, and also took the mustang from a roll. Both f-bodies had A4's, so tell me about the driver again? :rolleyes:

darrens99formul

10-26-2006, 05:17 PM

the lt1 won the race due to being faster not the driver. the ls1 car got the mustang driver off the line but the mustang came up and passed him. The lt1 lost off the line and came back before the mustang guy missed the gear, and also took the mustang from a roll. Both f-bodies had A4's, so tell me about the driver again? :rolleyes:

Are you seriously saying a LT1 is faster then a LS1 stock vs stock and mod for mod?

If so then please pass me some of what you're smoking :eek:

StLounatic

10-26-2006, 05:24 PM

Are you seriously saying a LT1 is faster then a LS1 stock vs stock and mod for mod?

If so then please pass me some of what you're smoking :eek:

in this case with these cars YES. the ls1 had lt's, gears, and a lid... the lt1 had mac mids and a cai. Both were a4 cars. :rolleyes:

97ChameleonTA

10-26-2006, 06:12 PM

Are you seriously saying a LT1 is faster then a LS1 stock vs stock and mod for mod?

If so then please pass me some of what you're smoking :eek:

I would say that comparing your mods to mine that we are equal in performance and mods... No???

darrens99formul

10-26-2006, 06:16 PM

in this case with these cars YES. the ls1 had lt's, gears, and a lid... the lt1 had mac mids and a cai. Both were a4 cars. :rolleyes:

All I can say is WOW. The LS1 has more mods and yet you think the LT1 should be faster. What can you say to that kind of logic.

BTW. Sometimes LS1's run real rich after LT's and badly need a dyno tune. Maybe that's what happened here.

Oh but that's right you live in the LT1 is faster mod for mod then LS1 world. Must be a little lonely there :D

darrens99formul

10-26-2006, 06:18 PM

I would say that comparing your mods to mine that we are equal in performance and mods... No???

Not really. Different locations, different transmissions, different gears. If you were an A4 with 3.23's and a 2800-3000 stall (heard those are best for LT1's) then I would agree.

97ChameleonTA

10-26-2006, 08:53 PM

Not really. Different locations, different transmissions, different gears. If you were an A4 with 3.23's and a 2800-3000 stall (heard those are best for LT1's) then I would agree.

Florida weather isn't exactly the best for runs and I would expect that if I switched to an auto with a 2800 stall I would run quicker than what I run now... :shrug:

darrens99formul

10-26-2006, 09:06 PM

Florida weather isn't exactly the best for runs and I would expect that if I switched to an auto with a 2800 stall I would run quicker than what I run now... :shrug:

I was thinking more in lines of DA then weather. I did my best runs in the heat of the summer. For some reason I can't hook well in cold weather.

And I don't expect you would get quicker going to an auto. You'd probably get slower which is exactly my point. If you were an auto LT1 with the same mods as me you would probably be running low 13's. Vis versa if an equally well driven/modded LS1 was compared to your car it would be quicker and trap higher.

But should this be surprising? isn't that why GM switched motors? Just like the HP was upped with the ls2 & LS7. Each motor upgrade is supposed to be faster then the last.

Blu91Z28

10-26-2006, 09:54 PM

I was thinking more in lines of DA then weather. I did my best runs in the heat of the summer. For some reason I can't hook well in cold weather.

And I don't expect you would get quicker going to an auto. You'd probably get slower which is exactly my point. If you were an auto LT1 with the same mods as me you would probably be running low 13's. Vis versa if an equally well driven/modded LS1 was compared to your car it would be quicker and trap higher.

But should this be surprising? isn't that why GM switched motors? Just like the HP was upped with the ls2 & LS7. Each motor upgrade is supposed to be faster then the last.

After watching an '01 LS1 A4 Corvette convertible make 5 passes, all 14.0's @ 102, one realizes that not all production vehicles are created equal. On paper, sure the LS1 should top an LT1. The same goes for an LT1 over an L98 but it doesn't always work out that way. Production variances will undoubtedly produce quicker and slower examples of all.

darrens99formul

10-27-2006, 07:55 AM

After watching an '01 LS1 A4 Corvette convertible make 5 passes, all 14.0's @ 102, one realizes that not all production vehicles are created equal. On paper, sure the LS1 should top an LT1. The same goes for an LT1 over an L98 but it doesn't always work out that way. Production variances will undoubtedly produce quicker and slower examples of all.

I can agree with that. You have ls1's that run 14.0 quarters and on the other end of the spectrum there were LS1's running 12.9's. Most of us were inbetween. I've always been a believer that you can't take what a few did (good or bad) and call it gospal. The average stock LS1 is a 13.5 car. The average stock LT1 is a 14.0 car.

IMO both are good starting points for drag racing since both are relatively fast, SRA and RWD. But anyone that doesn't admit the LS1 was an upgrade to the LT1 in design and performance is only fooling themselves.

And I'm not a fan boi (although I could see why someone in this thread might think I am). I am a realist. I would dump my LS1 F-body in a second for a Z06 Vette if I could afford the payment. I fully admit that the 03/04 Cobras beat me stock for stock and mod for mod. I know exactly where I am in the food chain and I pick my fights appropriately.

97ChameleonTA

10-27-2006, 11:09 AM

I was thinking more in lines of DA then weather. I did my best runs in the heat of the summer. For some reason I can't hook well in cold weather.

And I don't expect you would get quicker going to an auto. You'd probably get slower which is exactly my point. If you were an auto LT1 with the same mods as me you would probably be running low 13's. Vis versa if an equally well driven/modded LS1 was compared to your car it would be quicker and trap higher.

But should this be surprising? isn't that why GM switched motors? Just like the HP was upped with the ls2 & LS7. Each motor upgrade is supposed to be faster then the last.

I was speaking of DA as well... My best runs were done with temps in the high 80's, humidity in the low 90's and baro in the high 29's. My best 60' is a 1.85.

And how could you not expect me to get quicker with an auto and stall??? Potentially my MPH would be lower but my ET would definately be quicker...

And, for the record, i've raced many well driven LS1 6-speed cars and mod for mod i've always been right there. Win some, lose some (mostly win :D ).

The point you're trying to make is that LS1's SHOULD be faster than their LT1 counterparts. I'm not arguing that point. What i'm saying and trying to show is that isn't always the case and it isn't just a matter of the "better driver" mod.

darrens99formul

10-27-2006, 12:59 PM

I was speaking of DA as well... My best runs were done with temps in the high 80's, humidity in the low 90's and baro in the high 29's. My best 60' is a 1.85.

My question is what is the elevation at your track? Probably not much better or worse then mine but it is still something to consider when comparing two cars that are in different parts of the country.

And how could you not expect me to get quicker with an auto and stall??? Potentially my MPH would be lower but my ET would definately be quicker...

I wouldn't say definately. A great M6 driver can and will beat stalled autos at the bolt on level. It sucks but it's a fact. Here is my argument and I more then encourage you to tell me what, if anything, you disagree with.

Stock auto LT1's run 14.0 @ 100. And I know for a fact that many have run closer to 14.5 but I want this to be as fair as possible. Now add my basic mod list to that car. Stall/Nittos are good for .5 lets say. LT's are another .3 and we'll say .3 more for the CAI, catback and waterpump. That's 1.1 quicker which is more then a reasonable amount to gain. That makes the LT1 run a 12.9 quarter "IF" it really was a 14.0 to start with.

12.9 > 12.4 (my times)

Now take a M6 LS1 that will be starting at 13.2 @ 106 with a good driver (remember Evan Smith got 12.9's so I don't want to here how 13.2 is unreasonable). Now add your mods to that car. LT's & catback are good for .3, Lid is good for .1, 12 bolt with 3.73's are good for .2, Ported TB (equivilent to your electric pump in HP gains) is gonna be another .1 and the Nittos will give enough of a hook to drop another .2 off of that. That's an improvement of .9.

12.3 < 12.5 and unfortunately also < 12.4

And, for the record, i've raced many well driven LS1 6-speed cars and mod for mod i've always been right there. Win some, lose some (mostly win :D ).

I would venture to say your car is for some reason running above normal times. Here's a guy with similair mods and 60' but with not quite as spectacular results.

Saturday finally dipped into the 12's, the previous weekend had 13.15 @ 108 in decent weather. Saturday was humid as hell.

1.88 60' (She's got more in her)
8.3 @ 84 1/8th
12.90 @ 107.7 1/4

Ok, mods:
Homemade Coldair
Holley Airfoil Used
Meziere Water Pump
Asp Underdrive Pulley
Mac mids Used
Homemade offroad pipe
Hooker Catback
Madz28 Mailorder Tune
Motive 4.10's Used
Boxed stock LCA's
LCA Reloc Brackets
Right rear airbag
255/50 16 BFG's
Hurst Billet Plus Used

I would say his results are a little more normal then yours are. Are you 100% sure you are stock internals and stock weight?

The point you're trying to make is that LS1's SHOULD be faster than their LT1 counterparts. I'm not arguing that point. What i'm saying and trying to show is that isn't always the case and it isn't just a matter of the "better driver" mod.

No it's not the point I tried to make. It's the point I did make. There are a few reasons to explain why any given car went faster then it should. The most likely are undisclosed mods or weight reduction. But when a car goes .5 to .8 faster then just about every other car with the same setup I look for a logical reason for it. Not just "GM felt generous that day and gave that particular car 50-80 extra rwhp" :eek:

97ChameleonTA

10-27-2006, 06:15 PM

Wow, you're wordy... :D

I'll try to summarize the points to conserve space:

1. My track is 69' above sea level.
2. I have never witnessed a race where an auto with equal power didn't ET better than the manual counterpart when traction isn't an issue.
3. I don't agree that 13.2 is the 'average' for a stock LS1, I would put it closer to 13.5. I had a 1999 30th Anniversary TA and it ran 13.4's with a lid and filter on a 1.9 60' at the same track and pretty much the same weather as my LT1 runs.
4. While I may drive the living pi$$ out of my car it is nothing more than an LT1 with carefully selected modifications. Midlength headers are usually crap on an LT1. Reference this car from the same thread you quoted from (notice it is a convertible):
my bfg's dead hook from 4500 and we have similar trap speeds...id say launching from there will get your 1.7x easy
__________________
1995 T/A Vert M6
K&N cai, Madz28 tune, Pacesetter longtubes, Borla, B&M Ripper, Spohn tubular lcas, BMR subframe connectors, 4.10s in a 10-bolt, 255/50/16 BFGs
12.858 @ 106.93 on a 1.827 60'
Signature Pic
5. Yes my car is stock internals and weight, I have had my car since new and have turned every bolt on it myself. I run on stock wheels with Nitto DR's and the only weight reduction is the spare and jack. My post count is jacked up because of a site glitch some years ago but I have been here for a very long time and there are plenty of members who can attest to my car and mods.
6. If you are racing an auto and traction isn't an issue then how else would you explain it other than what I said, what SHOULD be isn't always the case...

darrens99formul

10-27-2006, 07:41 PM

Wow, you're wordy... :D

You have no idea :D

I'll try to summarize the points to conserve space:

1. My track is 69' above sea level.

There is a little advantage for you. Mine is 1,000 feet above sea level. I'm not sure by how much but if I were to run at 69' above sea level my 12.4 should improve.

2. I have never witnessed a race where an auto with equal power didn't ET better than the manual counterpart when traction isn't an issue.

It takes a Evan Smith type driver but it has been done. The stock LS1 M6 record is 12.8. Add my mods to that car and 3.73 gears and I am sure he'd get faster then 12.4 if he started at 12.8 (which is documented as having been done).

3. I don't agree that 13.2 is the 'average' for a stock LS1, I would put it closer to 13.5. I had a 1999 30th Anniversary TA and it ran 13.4's with a lid and filter on a 1.9 60' at the same track and pretty much the same weather as my LT1 runs.

Overall average? No. Average for an M6 with a decent driver? No. Average for a M6 with a great driver? 12.8 < 13.2 :)

4. While I may drive the living pi$$ out of my car it is nothing more than an LT1 with carefully selected modifications. Midlength headers are usually crap on an LT1. Reference this car from the same thread you quoted from (notice it is a convertible):

I have a lot more to show you. But that will be part 2 of this reply.

5. Yes my car is stock internals and weight, I have had my car since new and have turned every bolt on it myself. I run on stock wheels with Nitto DR's and the only weight reduction is the spare and jack. My post count is jacked up because of a site glitch some years ago but I have been here for a very long time and there are plenty of members who can attest to my car and mods.

I'll take your word for it. But you have to understand that a lot of people are the 2nd, 3rd or even 4th owner and want to believe thier LT1 is just a factory freak even though it went 12.9 with just a CAI and cutout.

But this does not change the fact that a LS1 with similair mods @ 69' above sea level could beat your times.

6. If you are racing an auto and traction isn't an issue then how else would you explain it other than what I said, what SHOULD be isn't always the case...

Far too vague. Auto what? What mods? I would need more details to give a reasonable answer.

Now on to part 2

darrens99formul

10-27-2006, 07:42 PM

All this info was from this thread:

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=406365

Here are the replies/sigs that best fit this discussion of bolt ons/12's.

I don,t feel like typing out everything on the car.
Here are the basics, LTs, true duals, CAI, Ed Wright tune, suspension stuff, stall, 3.73s.
13.4 at 104 with a best 60 foot of 1.89. This was done with a completely internally stock LT1 with just under 160K on the clock.

Here is a guy with basically your mods (minus the 1.6 rockers and EWP) and he's a stalled auto. 60' is close to yours but he is no where near beating your ET.

13.98 @ 9? mph 2.22 60' stock other than K+N in stock airbox
13.22 @ 10? mph 2.19 60' street tires, 306 cam, Pacesetter longtubes, K+N CAI, 1.6 RR, March underdrive, TB bypass, LT4 KM, Cutout after cats, MadZ28 tune, 3.73 gears, SFC's, LCA's
12.78 @ 109 mph 1.92 60' drag radials, same as above mods

3760 lbs race weight

He's basically your times with your mods (if he lowers his 60' a bit) only he needed a 306 cam to get there.

1997, Z28 Auto, stock heads and bottom-end w/ 3,385 lbs race weight, N/A.

60 ft: 1.71
1/8: 7.88
1/4: 12.44 @ 110.13

Track prep wasn't very good the day I ran these times (kept breaking loose in 1st and 2nd). It was a test and tune day with several oil-downs at the trace. I believe the car is currently capable of 12.30s and maybe 12.20s (see mods below). This winter I'm adding AFR 195, LT4 heads and intake, 30 lb injectors w/ an update on the PCM programming (PCMforLess). Hope to be in the 11s N/A (no NO2).

1997 Silver Z/28 LT1-Auto
w/ 30 th Anniversary navy blue stripes and Chrome ZR1 wheels
Kooks Long-Tubes w/ Off-Road Y-Pipe and Cut-Out (no Cats), LT4 Hot Cam, Valve Springs and Crane 1.6 Roller Rockers, GM Performance Roller Timing Chain, Holley 58mm TB, Aeromotive Fuel Regulator, 3.73 Gears, Vigilante 9.5” 3200 stall, TCI Super 2nd Gear Servo, B&M Trans Cooler, MSD Coil and Plug Wires, K&N Air Intake, PCMforLess Performance Program, LT4 KM, Jegs H/B w/ Under-Drive, Aluminum Driveshaft, Aluminum LCAs w/ Relocation Brackets, Mickey Thompson ET slicks and a few undisclosed performance upgrades. (Best ¼ time; 12.44 @ 110.13 MPH, Nov 05 (N/A, no NO2).

Basically your times but he too needed a cam, stall, a better 60' and weight reduction to get there.

I ran a 13.00 @106mph 1.7 60', first time ever on slicks and the slicke were 10 year old housiers .mods in sig

BMR Xtreme duty TA, Boxed RLA's, Jet Hot LT Costom ORY, Flowmaster 80 series,Slp short throw,center Force dual friction, CAI, Airfoil, Aluminum DS, 410 ,SFC, Hurst T handle,Hurst indy stick,Tailor wires,LT1 ram air
Best Run was 13.00@106Mph 1.76 60'
on Oct 30/05 at TMP Cauga Ontario
Rip 10 bolt Easter Sunday

He has slightly taller gears (4.10's) and a slightly better 60'. But doesn't have the 1.6's or EWP. But something tells me that those two mods won't net him .5 in the quarter mile.

sig

96z,A-4, k&n cai,373gears,mack headers,highflow cat,3inch cutout, flowmaster catback, 1.6rr`s,3000 vigilante,cc305 cam,stock programming
best time 12.52@109.21
292 rwhp 307 rwtq

Bolt ons, gears, stall and a cam to get your times.

I have more but I will end it here (as if it wasn't long enough). Point is that the average Joe does not run mid 12's without a cam or some serious weight reduction. The average Joe also does not race at 69' above sea level.

HardcoreRM125

10-27-2006, 08:31 PM

97ChameleonTA

10-27-2006, 09:01 PM

One thing I wanna point out though, is that some of those cars are pretty poorly modded. Mismatch of parts, etc. **** that last guy doesnt even have a PCM tune done ... And its on a cammed car ...

Dont get me wrong, I think average LS1 to average LT1, mod for mod, with equal drivers the LS1 is going to win, as well as stock. BUT, some cars, without doubt, DO run significantly harder than others.

What Hardcore said is exactly my point. We could go on and on, for every 'slow for the mods' LT1 you dig up I can find one that is 'fast for the mods'.

I can direct you to a friends website about his '93 TA that when it was a bolt-on LT1, 2800 stalled auto it ran 12.2's, (www.mycar.net, look up the January 31, 1999 times). And he didn't have 1.6RR's or an electric water pump. Albeit, the car was lightened.

Shon Herron has run 11.8's with his bolt-on LT1. I'm sure his list of mods is on this site somewhere if you care to look it up.

darrens99formul

10-27-2006, 10:18 PM

What Hardcore said is exactly my point. We could go on and on

And lets do just that.

I can direct you to a friends website about his '93 TA that when it was a bolt-on LT1, 2800 stalled auto it ran 12.2's, (www.mycar.net, look up the January 31, 1999 times). And he didn't have 1.6RR's or an electric water pump. Albeit, the car was lightened.

Weight reduction, FL track elevation, lots of suspension that helped get a 1.6 60' all contributed to his runs. Impressive none the less. But I wonder if a LS1 could do better? We'll get back to this one.

Shon Herron has run 11.8's with his bolt-on LT1. I'm sure his list of mods is on this site somewhere if you care to look it up.

That would be this car:

http://www.herronperformance.com/html/shop_car.html

Lots-0-Bolt ons + significant weight reduction + -500 DA to hit the record of 11.8 @ 114. Impressive. Want to know what the fastest LS1 bolt on cars run? This might sting a little.

The 50 Quickest Stock Motor'd Bolt-on LS1 cars!

For Updates...

I need your ETs out to three decimal places, (i.e. 11.XXX) and include all the information required for the list.

..: Naturally Aspirated - Bolt-on's - Stock Motor* :..

F-Body
Board ID - 1/4 ET @ MPH (60ft), Yr & Type of car, Converter/Clutch, Gear, Race Weight, Date
1). Magnus ------ 10.987 @ 119.31 (1.42), 97 Firebird A4, YPT4400, 4.10, 2920, 12/04
2). Project_SS ---- 11.111 @ 118.78 (1.44), 98 Camaro SS A4, TCI4400, 3.73, 2900, 01/06
3). Hawkn01 ----- 11.256 @ 118.48 (1.52), 01 Firehawk A4, TCS4200, 3.73, 3086, 03/04
4). RUQWIKR ----- 11.273 @ 120.02 (1.46), 01 Formula A4, YTP4400, 4.11, 3140, 04/02
5). Skelton ----- 11.301 @ 119.29 (1.50), 01 Formula A4, YTP4400, 4.10, 3130, 03/05

I stopped after the top five to conserve space and I think 10.9 @ 119 more then proves my point.

darrens99formul

10-27-2006, 10:34 PM

OMG, My bad. I forgot the LS1 bolt on record was just recently broken. Here's the thread if anyone is interested:

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=598343&page=1&pp=20

Cliffnotes are weight reduction, full bolt ons, 4400 stall and -500 DA

10.92 @ 121 MPH on a 1.46 60'

97ChameleonTA

10-27-2006, 11:23 PM

And lets do just that.

Weight reduction, FL track elevation, lots of suspension that helped get a 1.6 60' all contributed to his runs. Impressive none the less. But I wonder if a LS1 could do better? We'll get back to this one.

That would be this car:

http://www.herronperformance.com/html/shop_car.html

Lots-0-Bolt ons + significant weight reduction + -500 DA to hit the record of 11.8 @ 114. Impressive. Want to know what the fastest LS1 bolt on cars run? This might sting a little.

The 50 Quickest Stock Motor'd Bolt-on LS1 cars!

For Updates...

I need your ETs out to three decimal places, (i.e. 11.XXX) and include all the information required for the list.

..: Naturally Aspirated - Bolt-on's - Stock Motor* :..

F-Body
Board ID - 1/4 ET @ MPH (60ft), Yr & Type of car, Converter/Clutch, Gear, Race Weight, Date
1). Magnus ------ 10.987 @ 119.31 (1.42), 97 Firebird A4, YPT4400, 4.10, 2920, 12/04
2). Project_SS ---- 11.111 @ 118.78 (1.44), 98 Camaro SS A4, TCI4400, 3.73, 2900, 01/06
3). Hawkn01 ----- 11.256 @ 118.48 (1.52), 01 Firehawk A4, TCS4200, 3.73, 3086, 03/04
4). RUQWIKR ----- 11.273 @ 120.02 (1.46), 01 Formula A4, YTP4400, 4.11, 3140, 04/02
5). Skelton ----- 11.301 @ 119.29 (1.50), 01 Formula A4, YTP4400, 4.10, 3130, 03/05

I stopped after the top five to conserve space and I think 10.9 @ 119 more then proves my point.

NHRA correction factors don't even start until 1200 feet above sea level so I don't get your point. There are plenty of other negative variables when it comes to drag racing in Florida to negate the 'sea level' mod, like temperature and humidity.

But hey, whatever makes you happy man. The LS1 is just unbeatable no matter what :bow: (Shhhh, don't tell my slow LT1, OK?) :rolleyes:

BTW, it looks like you proved a point I made earlier. Those are ALL automatics. I guess Evan Smith hasn't driven a bolt on LS1 yet, huh?

darrens99formul

10-27-2006, 11:41 PM

NHRA correction factors don't even start until 1200 feet above sea level so I don't get your point. There are plenty of other negative variables when it comes to drag racing in Florida to negate the 'sea level' mod, like temperature and humidity.

I all ready stated that I ran my best in hot August/high humidity as well. So you had nothing on my times other then 69' vs 1000'. But that's beside the point IMO because we are not the same transmissions. Apples to apples.

But hey, whatever makes you happy man. The LS1 is just unbeatable no matter what :bow: (Shhhh, don't tell my slow LT1, OK?) :rolleyes:

Not unbeatable. You just have to out mod it/weight reduction/beat the driver ;)

And for the record I did say your LT1 was faster then normal for those mods. But to be perfectly clear I will say this now:

Your LT1 is definately fast for your mods. And I have to believe your driving skills (launching/shifting) are nothing short of fantastic.

BTW, it looks like you proved a point I made earlier. Those are ALL automatics. I guess Evan Smith hasn't driven a bolt on LS1 yet, huh?

Because stalled autos are a bigger deal in a stock internal LS1 then they are in a stock internal LT1. LS1's make better power up high in the rpm's so a big stall with a decent shift extension puts us where our motors want to be. LT1's on the other hand make better power lower in the rpm range thus making a stall good for launching but not quite the night and day difference you see in the LS1.

I suspect this is why the LT1 Bolt on record is held by a M6 and no M6 can even touch the LS1 bolt on record.

Evan Smith in any car is scary. But my point was if a stock M6 can hit a 12.8 then adding 50-60 rwhp + gears to that has to get them beyond my 12.4 ET. But then again I don't have the absolute most effiecient setup either. If I had 3.73's, LS6 intake (stock on 01/02 ls1's) and a Yank SS4000 my times would be better and I might be out of Evans reach :lol: