A Saleen Camaro!?

I was doing some digging around and came across this.... I didn't see it already posted so i assumed it was news!

Steve Saleen provides information on the new engine in the 2009 Camaro!

Here is the actual link: http://www.roadandtrack.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=13027

Car Crazy: Are you going to bump up the horsepower on your Saleen Mustang cars when Ford adds horsepower in 2009?
Steve Saleen: Yes we are, I just talked to Alan Mulally (Ford Motor Co. Chief Executive) about the 2009 facelift year and what kind of added power the GT and Cobra will get.
CC: What kind of added power did he talk about for the 09 model year?
Saleen: Nothing extreme, it's only a facelift year, but enough to make my current engine upgrades obsolete. They're aiming for 350 horsepower out of the V8 in the GT, and they're only adding about ten or fifteen horsepower to the GT500.
CC: Can you give us an idea of what you'll do to for your Saleen models?
Saleen: We don't know yet exactly, but we've had many meetings on what we want. We're aiming to get around 385 horsepower out of the S281 3 Valve with around 390 lb-ft of torque. The S281 Supercharged model will get 500 horses even with around 460 lb-ft of torque, and expect about a fifteen horsepower increase on the (S281) Extreme Mustang over the 2007 model (that's 565 horsepower and 535 lb-ft of torque).
CC: That's a big power increase on all cars, are the prices going to change?
Saleen: Not counting inflation, the prices should stay the same.
CC: Are the rumors of you teaming up with GM true or false?
Saleen: My team just worked with GM last month on the Transformers movie. We had such a good relationship with them that we are infact going to team up with them on future projects?
CC: What future projects?
Saleen: Well the Camaro project is one of them, I've watched from a distance while they've been putting the production model together. I think it would be foolish on our part if we didn't get a part of that action (Steve laughs).
CC: So are you going to do your own versions of the new Camaro?
Saleen: It's not legally official right now, but that's what we're hoping for.
CC: What kind of upgrades will you make, have you seen the engine GM is using in the Camaro?
Saleen: I hope I don't get in trouble with GM for saying this, but they're using a 6.2 liter 450 horsepower engine for the premium V8 in the 2009 Camaro and the base Corvette. The base V8 will probably be a detuned version of the same 6.2. So we'll just upgrade the 6.2 liter V8 to Saleen level specifications. We're going to upgrade the 6.2 liter V8 if we're given the legal chance by GM. Our base model should have around 485 horsepower, and expect our Extreme Supercharged Camaro to have over 600 horsepower.

A 6.2 L 450 HP V8? Sweet!

YES!!!! YES YES YES YES YES!!!

I have been thinking "wouldnt it be cool if...." and now they are.... YEA!

:eek: :D

YES!!!! YES YES YES YES YES!!!

I have been thinking "wouldnt it be cool if...." and now they are.... YEA!

Gives me a lot more faith in all of that speculation out there.... 450 HP OMG :eek:

oh boy.. i don't think he was supposed to let those engine options slip :D.. i can't wait to hear the pricing on them

that's pretty sweet though, that Saleen is gonna do something with the Camaro.. i'm sure some people on both the Camaro and Mustang sides of things won't like it, but i think it's a great idea.

a.....SAAAAWEEEEET! =)

Now everyone shouldn't be too worried if the LS7 appears in the 5th gen or not.

Come 2009 I think I'll be making a trade in... 450 hp stock... I think so! :bow:

Hmm, Saleen Camaro.... interesting! :)

I totally disagree with Saleen. There will be no Saleen Camaro or Mustang....not after the black Suburbans get dispatched for this one!:death: :D

That's great news on the engines if it's true. I'm so happy that the top model will be a lot cheaper than the GT500, and with only 50 less hp and hopefully a couple hundred pounds less, it should compete well. I am not looking forward to saleen Camaros though. They are overpriced ricer cars if you ask me. :barf:

Lol. Ya, there is going to be a sign on the GM building "Hiring Assasins. Bring refrences!"

Wow, I'm guessing that we weren't supposed to know that. Well at any rate, with a 450 hp top end motor, anyone care to speculate about the mid-range? That seems to be what most of us have indicated we will be purchasing. When the speculation was a 500 hp top end motor, most people thought the mid-range would be the 400 hp-ish option. Anyone care to change your bets?

I just hope and pray that they keep the price point of this 450HP beast around the 30-35k mark.

my guess the midrange would be 380-400hp

my guess the midrange would be 380-400hp

If I had to guess I would say the same.... maybe a new 5.7L or keep the LS2 in production?

Saleen: I hope I don't get in trouble with GM for saying this, but they're using a 6.2 liter 450 horsepower engine for the premium V8 in the 2009 Camaro and the base Corvette. The base V8 will probably be a detuned version of the same 6.2. So we'll just upgrade the 6.2 liter V8 to Saleen level specifications. We're going to upgrade the 6.2 liter V8 if we're given the legal chance by GM. Our base model should have around 485 horsepower, and expect our Extreme Supercharged Camaro to have over 600 horsepower.

:eek:

Yup....... Nuf said. :bow:

Interesting. On that 6.2 stuff, I've always felt that that combo could be one of the V8 line up possibilities.

Personally, I've made no secret that I'd prefer a 450 hp, 3,500 lbs, Z/28 over a 500 hp, 3,900 lbs, GT-500.

450 hp. That is like, WAAAAAAAY more than i expected.


THAT IS ****ING AWESOME.

Interesting. On that 6.2 stuff, I've always felt that that combo could be one of the V8 line up possibilities.

Personally, I've made no secret that I'd prefer a 450 hp, 3,500 lbs, Z/28 over a 500 hp, 3,900 lbs, GT-500.

Would be a clooooose race.

7.777:1 lb/HP ratio for the Camaro
7.8:1 lb/HP ratio for the GT500

I'll take the Camaro.

as exceited I am to hear this...I still want to hear it from GM along with prices :)
SCOTT GET IN HERE!!

Bring on the Skyline... :)

my guess the midrange would be 380-400hp

Yeah, right around there, or so.

as exceited I am to hear this...I still want to hear it from GM along with prices :)
SCOTT GET IN HERE!!

LOL! I can't help but wonder if now that the lid is off the box that we will not hear something from GM soon... Maybe the NAIAS?

Saleen: I hope I don't get in trouble with GM for saying this, but

If you preface a statement w/ the above, you probably will.

:D :D :D

... Maybe the NAIAS?

Perfect time for a winkie.







;)

Yeah, after letting this cat out of the bag, there may not be a Saleen Camaro now.

It would make sense though. A 450 HP top Camaro with the same engine as the base Vette (sound familiar?) and the base V8 having at least 350 HP. Remember, level for level Camaro must outperform Mustang. That's straight from the horse's mouth. :)

The one thing that puzzles me is all the hints about the top Camaro being supercharged. Unless you're talking about the uber-priced boutique model from Saleen, it doesn't look like that'll happen.....and I'm liking it.

If they keep this thing under 35k I have a feeling they will have no problem hitting their 100,000 car quota

hmmm...if this is true I hope it doesn't hurt any GM/Saleen cooperation that they may have

At this point though, what is the "harm" in people finding out about what engines to expect? :shrug: I mean, really?? :rolleyes: We get more and more worked up NOT knowing, and yet we KNOW what the Mustang has, and there's a little more "confirmed" with what the Challenger is going to get, so why not appease us, and give us something we can count on (and prepare for :thumb: ).

If GM actually got mad at Saleen, and cut off any dealings, that would be shooting themselves in the foot, IMO. I think Saleen involvement (while it's typically been solely Mustang associated) can/will actually be a GOOD thing for the Camaro ... it's a "name brand" other than just GM or Chevrolet being tied to the car ... I hope it draws more hype :).

I'm still being "optimistic" that the car will weigh in (in a "low trim" package) at slightly less than 3600 lbs, so we can at least round DOWN the weight to ~35xx lbs ;). And with ~450 HP? :yes:

if the mid and top v8 are both 6.2L, only tuned different, as Saleen said.. it shouldnt bee too hard to mod the lower model to match the top one should it?

if the mid and top v8 are both 6.2L, only tuned different, as Saleen said.. it shouldnt bee too hard to mod the lower model to match the top one should it?

A cam swap, CAI, Exhaust and headers, and custom tune.... may be getting up around 500HP :eek:

^ ^ like LS1 --> LS6? ;)

if the mid and top v8 are both 6.2L, only tuned different, as Saleen said.. it shouldnt bee too hard to mod the lower model to match the top one should it?

Well that all depends on what they do to "de-tune" it.

If its got smaller intake and exhaust manifolds, a different cat, a different intake, and/or a different computer. Then no.

Now if it has different heads, cam, and valvetrain, it might be a little harder, in that case it would probably be more cost beneficial just to get the higher hp model.

It's still kinda awkward, Saleen Camaro! I'm sure it'll sell, IF they put together a decent package............For the PRICE. Which is really what it's about. I'm sure Saleen is not the only MFG who will be tweaking the new Camaro. There should be an ample amount of aftermarket parts out there as well for it. I wonder if there will be a F/I model from the factory like Ford has. GM probably isn't pleased with this, but it wouldn't make sense to kill the deal with Saleen over it, also they should probably have others too. Berger maybe they were noice! Price is the big thing, I can't afford a Camaro that's 95K or I'd have a Berger ZL1. I am totally syked about this, I can't wait to see them out there...........:D <<<<<This will be me.>>>>>:cool:

absolutly awesome to find out somewhat of the motor specs, i dont think its a bad thing, i dont see a reason to keep it wraps minus the fact of giving ford time to develop something to outdo it, but either way the more people that know the specs earlier.. the more that will want to buy it

hmm..usually when something like this comes around chris, jason, or scott are usually in here telling us not to get our hopes up because its not official...do they know something they aren't telling us??? :lol:

Would be a clooooose race.

7.777:1 lb/HP ratio for the Camaro
7.8:1 lb/HP ratio for the GT500

I'll take the Camaro.

Looks like it will come down to gearing and torque curves then. What weight did you use for the Camaro?

Personally, I've made no secret that I'd prefer a 450 hp, 3,500 lbs, Z/28 over a 500 hp, 3,900 lbs, GT-500.

Ditto. The question in my eyes is how close can GM come to a 3500 lb Z28?

4-5-0 HP........:eek: That sounds SO nice!!! :cool:

I'm not really sure that they're going to get in trouble for revealling this, either. "Salleen Camaro" is PR gold for low volume enthusiasts. And if it's tipping GM's hand, couldn't they just boost engine power to level the field again? Aside from the fact that since the weight is unknown, the actual performance of the car is a big question (at least to the competition). As a GM fan, I'm SURE this car is gonna rock!!!

Yeah, after letting this cat out of the bag, there may not be a Saleen Camaro now.

It would make sense though. A 450 HP top Camaro with the same engine as the base Vette (sound familiar?) and the base V8 having at least 350 HP. Remember, level for level Camaro must outperform Mustang. That's straight from the horse's mouth. :)

The one thing that puzzles me is all the hints about the top Camaro being supercharged. Unless you're talking about the uber-priced boutique model from Saleen, it doesn't look like that'll happen.....and I'm liking it.

He did say the 2009 premium Camaro to have 450 hp but wasnt there speculation that the actual top dog Camaro wasnt coming out the 1st year? Im guessing maybe thats changed now? :shrug:

Either way, I'm sure he received a call from GM if that info is accurate :lol:

Looks like it will come down to gearing and torque curves then. What weight did you use for the Camaro?

I used the assumed 3500 lbs for rightnow.... given that ratio, hopefully GM can keep it inthat ball park.

Damn. Well bye-bye LT1 when 2009 comes around. Might as well level the racing field with the people that'll be getting them off the shelf with 450hp. That is gonna be awesome, but like it's been said many times- price is gonna make or break it.

Well I always did like that Steve Saleen guy! :) So a 450hp 6.2L for the top Camaro. That's some great news! I hope the weight is proportional and the price too!

Heck if the top Camaro is 450hp who needs a Saleen Camaro....

Well, looks like I was wrong about the Camaro getting a LS9. :think:

As for the LS1, LS6, and LS2 all those motors are done and I can't see GM putting a 12,8,and 4 year-old motors into the "all brand new" Camaro.

A LS3 slightly detuned makes much more sense for a base V8 putting out 400hp against the "top" Camaro putting out 450hp. :D

I like having the Camaro N/A more anyway, so GM just added more power(450hp). :bow:

god please let this be correct...someone needs to freakin confirm this

Well, I dont know if dealings with Saleen is such a good idea. If Chevy does deal with him, then Saleen will have to deal with the politics of Ford and GM guys both nudging poor Steve with their elbows, saying, hey, make OUR car better. I think Saleen involvement would make everyone stressed out, especially considering Saleen has a long history of Mustang favortism.

But here is a thought, and I dont know if this has been posted as a thread already...which it probably has because Im sure it has been thought of: Why not just let Lengenfelter and Mallet get their hands on it. To tell you the truth, both Lengenfelter and Mallet both have impressed me more than Saleen in terms of "extra" performance. I remember reading an article on a C5 Corvette that ran a 9 and a half second quarter mile and pulled a 2 second 0-60. Im sorry, but Saleen hasnt produced much in that stature. Besides, let GM have a special edition company all to themselves, just like in the sixties where we had the Yenko and Ford had Shelbys. And I dont want to hear anything like, "Oh, Lengenfelter and Mallet are Corvette people" because I know that at least Lengenfelter soups up Caddy CTSs and GTOs as well...not to mention, they stuffed a Vette engine into a goddam Solstice. You know what, to hell with Saleen. There I said it. To hell with Saleen, as far as I see it, they are just an extention of Mustang-competition.

I would definately choose a Lingenfelter, or a Mallet Camaro over a Saleen one. I do see it as a conflict of interest, Steve IS a Mustang guy. However if its effective in converting former Mustang guys over to the Camaro, I see a use for it even if it wouldn't be my choice. Mallet does a nice job with the Solstice/Sky! And Lingenfelter,:( I still think he left behind a hell of a team, equipt with a wealth of knowledge John learned over the years, from building some very powerful smallblocks. There will still be people willing to pay extra for a "tuned" Camaro, despite the car having so much power stock.

I would definately choose a Lingenfelter, or a Mallet Camaro over a Saleen one. I do see it as a conflict of interest, Steve IS a Mustang guy. However if its effective in converting former Mustang guys over to the Camaro, I see a use for it even if it wouldn't be my choice. Mallet does a nice job with the Solstice/Sky! And Lingenfelter,:( I still think he left behind a hell of a team, equipt with a wealth of knowledge John learned over the years, from building some very powerful smallblocks. There will still be people willing to pay extra for a "tuned" Camaro, despite the car having so much power stock.

WORD...and yet I know a lot of people in here are going to hate me for saying this, but I dont want to convert any Mustang fans. Given, the introduction of the Camaro and Challenger are going to swing a few "potential" Mustang buyers our way, but for the most part, I like the idea of there being a high population of Mustang owners to compete with the high population of Camaro owners. I like the competition. Its like the yankees and the mets going at eachother. The two opposing sides say that they hate eachother...and yet I think that they want that opposing team to keep on coming back, just so we can see a good fight, er, game. To be honest, as long as there is a pretty even margin between Mustang and Camaro sales, I want Saleen to keep being Ford-only, as long as Lengenfelter and Mallet are GM-only:cool:

450 HP. What a beautiful number. My 1984 Z28 had 150 :lol:

If it has 450hp, who would waste the money on a Saleen product. ?? :)

I can handle the rest and I certianly dont need a body kit. :)

Personally, I wouldn't buy a Saleen anything. Lots of folks do on the Mustang side, and that's fine if that is what they want. Me....I'll take the cheaper and lighter version and modify from there.

Personal preference.

Bob

I dunno about all this Saleen Stuff... but I cant wait until Lingenfelter gets their hands on a ls7 camaro.

So how much extra will people have to pay for the Saleen Camaro? Is it gonna be like the Saleen 281 mustangs? wayyy overpriced and just a little bit faster than stock? Uhhh....after all this Shelby-Mustang we've been making fun of in the last months, we are gonna be looking like fools with the Saleen-Camaro.

I hope GM keeps the Saleen name out of the Camaro.

I would definately choose a Lingenfelter, or a Mallet Camaro over a Saleen one. I do see it as a conflict of interest, Steve IS a Mustang guy. However if its effective in converting former Mustang guys over to the Camaro, I see a use for it even if it wouldn't be my choice. Mallet does a nice job with the Solstice/Sky! And Lingenfelter,:( I still think he left behind a hell of a team, equipt with a wealth of knowledge John learned over the years, from building some very powerful smallblocks. There will still be people willing to pay extra for a "tuned" Camaro, despite the car having so much power stock.

Saleen isn't a tuner, they are a small volume manufacturer. Big difference compared to Lingefelter or Mallet whom I assume are still tuners.

Saleen isn't a tuner, they are a small volume manufacturer. Big difference compared to Lingefelter or Mallet whom I assume are still tuners.

That is true...there is quite a difference between Lingenfelter and Saleen. And I beleive someone said that Saleens were way over priced for just a little bit faster of a car. That is so true too. In fact the Mustang GT and some of the Saleen Mustangs are pretty much neck and neck in performance. No offense to the guy, but yeah, I dont think Camaro will even be needing him. And to tell you the truth, I dont think even Mustang needs him now that Shelby is back into the game with that GT500. Not to worry though, Im sure that with the arrival of the 650 horsepower Vette, there will be room for a limited production ZL1 or COPO that will have the Z06 engine so that it can compete directly with that pesky Shelby;)

True, but Saleen does offer exclusivity, which some (or maybe even alot) of people crave more than just big performance. Eh, it'll be neat to see if they come up with something and how it turns out in the Saleen Mustang vs. Saleen Camaro camps. I can how that goes down now, you guys say there will be fomoco favoritism, but if a 600hp Saleen F-bod is in the wings and there isn't an equivalent 600hp Mustang there as well, I can see the Ford camp screaming bloody murder.

True, but Saleen does offer exclusivity, which some (or maybe even alot) of people crave more than just big performance.
I think that's probably an important point ... while I bet the majority of people HERE on this board care more about the "power" than they do the "name" on the car (I mean, like "Saleen" or "Berger"), I think the general "population" DO care about the things that make their car "personal" (even if that means slapping some Saleen decals on with a Saleen body kit;)).

While I likely wouldn't pay for a Saleen package on my Camaro, I believe it would be a good thing for the Camaro overall :cool:.

450HP is nice. It should be a lot lighter and cheaper than a GT500 too

Since Saleen has been around for a long time and working directly with Ford- I would assume he'd know exactly what he could and couldn't say about an upcoming vehicle without getting in trouble. I'm surprised someone from the illustrious "winky club" hasn' winked in on this.;)

Whether anyone likes or dislikes Saleen- dosen't matter. I think it would be a very good thing to have a company like his involved in the new Camaro- it provides that much more exposure (not to mention parts development) and could possibly bring in some untapped buyers of the car.

File this one under "Its alllll gooood!!!"

Since Saleen has been around for a long time and working directly with Ford- I would assume he'd know exactly what he could and couldn't say about an upcoming vehicle without getting in trouble. I'm surprised someone from the illustrious "winky club" hasn' winked in on this.;)

Whether anyone likes or dislikes Saleen- dosen't matter. I think it would be a very good thing to have a company like his involved in the new Camaro- it provides that much more exposure (not to mention parts development) and could possibly bring in some untapped buyers of the car.

File this one under "Its alllll gooood!!!"

I agree completely. While I can also understand where other are coming from in terms of not wanting Saleen in the Camaro market (Saleen's long history with Mustangs and a general distaste of everything Mustang do not mix), but from a sales perspective this is a great thing. Not to mention, I couldn't thing of any bigger insult to Ford and the Mustang than stealing their own customers away from them!

If they keep this thing under 35k I have a feeling they will have no problem hitting their 100,000 car quota

I would say not seeing as to how every single one of us is probably already saving up pennies for this one... I know I am! I just hope they don't try to make it "rare" to get more money like Ford has done with the GT500. Just sell us the car!

I just hope they don't try to make it "rare" to get more money like Ford has done with the GT500. Just sell us the car!

I could not agree more! If the demand is there, why in the hell would you not want to sell them! Given their lack luster sales in 2002 with the camaro I would have to think that GM would be smarter than to pull a stunt like this (hopefully I am not just giving them too much credit)

I couldn't thing of any bigger insult to Ford and the Mustang than stealing their own customers away from them!

WTF??????? If you could convert testosteroil into gas, this forum could keep the US of A off of foreign oil like forever!

Anyways, if you let a little something like a new F-bod steal your alleginece away then you weren't a true fan to begin with

a saleen camaro, yuck i couldn't stomach it. i'd rather wait and see what GMMG :bow: is going to offer cuz you know they are going to do something.

yeah im new. lol. just tryin out this site. seems pretty neat. yeah whats up with a saleen camaro? i always thought they only did stangs and ford cars but sounds pretty sick.

There is a Ford dealership near where I live. They are an authorized Saleen dealer. Over the summer they will have anywhere from 10-15 Stangs right out front by the street. Talk about stopping traffic! IMO they are overpriced for the performance you get, but they are BEAUTIFUL! Just imagine what he could have done to a 4th Gen Camaro if he had the chance? Those stangs don't have a bad body panel on them, and they outperform the regular Ford offerings to boot. Yes they are expensive, but they are exclusive, and have a certain prestige about them. I see no harm in a Saleen Camaro. I can picture one sitting in the middle of a showroom with a different hood, an RS type grille, better taillight treatment, special paint color, bitchin' 20" wheels, perfect stance, tasteful stripes, and oh yeah....600HP!!!!! name your price!

The Saleen Camaro might help to get rid of the redneck image some people stereotype the Camaro with.

The Saleen Camaro might help to get rid of the redneck image some people stereotype the Camaro with.

Or, just add to it!!

For the most part, the ignorant who believe that Mullet = Camaro, no amount of styling changes will change the the attitude they have.

As for GMMG:

GMMG+Camaro=$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$

But, they do look great!! And, I cant wait to see what they do with it!! How about a blue Penske Trans Am tribute!! Or, a Grumpy Jenkins pro stock look??!!

Or, just add to it!!

For the most part, the ignorant who believe that Mullet = Camaro, no amount of styling changes will change the the attitude they have.

A 450+hp corner carvin' Z28 ... however... :)

A 450+hp corner carvin' Z28 ... however... :)
Just a faster, more powerful mullet mobile :rolleyes:.

Saleen Camaro has no ring to it. Everyone alreadly associates Saleen w/ Mustang and it will just be something people always look at differently, but this is coming from someone who thought harley and ford trucks was a poor mix. As far as prestige goes, if you have a car in your driveway w/ a Quote: joelster different hood, RS grille, better taillight treatment, special paint color, bitchin' 20" wheels, perfect stance, tasteful stripes, and oh yeah....600HP, and you did it yourself, then you are what every Camaro fan wants to be, a guy that knows cars and knows where to put his money. If you want prestige then buy a corvette, or better yet a Z06, but the guy that spends an extra $10k for a Saleen Camaro that is just gonna offer stripes, wheels, and maybe a couple mm bigger throttle body, is the same guy that buys a Dale Earnhart Monte Carlo to look rich. Apologies to anybody who owns a Dale Earnhart Monte Carlo and thinks they look rich

As far as prestige goes, if you have a car in your driveway w/ a Quote: joelster different hood, RS grille, better taillight treatment, special paint color, bitchin' 20" wheels, perfect stance, tasteful stripes, and oh yeah....600HP, and you did it yourself, then you are what every Camaro fan wants to be, a guy that knows cars and knows where to put his money...but the guy that spends an extra $10k for a Saleen Camaro that is just gonna offer stripes, wheels, and maybe a couple mm bigger throttle body, is the same guy that buys a Dale Earnhart Monte Carlo to look rich.

I am in no way defending those that "buy a Dale Earnhart Monte Carlo to look rich" but I often times wonder if our (the members of forums just like this one) perceptions are not drastically skewed because the majority of us know our way around an engine. I will not deny that when i see a saleen mustang or the like I question why people would spend the money to purchase one; however, the fact of the matter is that people like us make up a very small percentage of those who buy muscle cars. The majority of people who will buy a camaro are your average everyday Joe who does care about aesthetics and will want a car that is set apart from all the others but at the same time does not have the time or know-how to make it happen; so for them a saleen type of vehicle is very appealing.

We continually rip on these cars because they are just not "worth the money", but people all have different perspectives. It is all to easy to be critical without understanding others perspectives. There is obviously a market for these cars as people are buying them. What you have to ask is not "why in the hell would anyone buy that" but rather "what makes it appealing to that demographic". Yes for enthusiasts a Saleen Camaro would be pointless, but for the other 95% of individuals who will be in the market for a Camaro they may not be.

mmm...yeah, well the little box popped up at the top saying i hadn't said anything in awhile so i had to come up w/ something. but i see where you are going, i just wish it was something other than saleen

..........guy that buys a Dale Earnhart Monte Carlo to look rich. Apologies to anybody who owns a Dale Earnhart Monte Carlo and thinks they look rich
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry, but to me, a "Dale Earnhardt Monte Carlo" most definitely DOES NOT make me think of riches.

If someone has one because they like the look or options, great.....more power to them.

But if someone has one and thinks it makes them "look rich".........well that's just pathetic :rolleyes: . I don't know, maybe I'm just hanging out in the wrong trailer parks :shrug:.



....................But back to the real topic
It wouldn't bother me at all if Saleen were to be involved in the Camaro. If they offer a visual or power option you'd want good for you......if they offer a visual or power option someone else would like (which would sell more cars) good for US. We need this thing to sell WELL to people other than the hard core F-Body guys if we want it to be a success and NOT die out after a few years due to poor sales.
Don't get hung up on something as silly as a name just because it's associated with the Mustang.

i'd rather wait and see what GMMG :bow: is going to offer cuz you know they are going to do something.

+1 million. GMMG is the shiznit.

maybe im misreading, but it seems like a lot of people who might have an idea of whats going on are staying away from this thread.

maybe im misreading, but it seems like a lot of people who might have an idea of whats going on are staying away from this thread.

True:think:

I guess that can mean one of two things:
Either it's completely baseless and they don't feel it's worth getting involved in the thread.
Or there's some negotiating or planning going on behind the scenes and they don't want any more info to leak out before the "right" time. ;)

True:think:

I guess that can mean one of two things:
Either it's completely baseless and they don't feel it's worth getting involved in the thread.
Or there's some negotiating or planning going on behind the scenes and they don't want any more info to leak out before the "right" time. ;)

Or there is some merit to the information and they choose to not get involved for fear of their jobs and the black suburbans...

My guess is that even if Saleen is involved, you won't see a "Saleen Camaro" any more than we saw an "SLP Camaro" on the 4ths. My guess is that Saleen will be the build-house for the SS just like SLP used to do, or Saleen will just buy and resell Camaros like he used to do with Mustangs. While you can get a Saleen Mustang through many Ford dealers, it's not a ford-offered product in the same way that the Cobra is. Likewise, I think Chevy will still have their Z28 and SS, and if you want a Camaro from Saleen, you get it from Saleen or through some dealer that he's aligned with.

a 95 NA 351 Saleen. It was a sweet car and was the main reason for my getting the SS. The new ones ,281's, are not worth what the 351's were/are.
My youngest son was the owner of the 95 and after it demise he drove a 281, he was not impressed and ended up with a 97 C5.

I believe Saleen is more interested in its Super car work and the Mustang is just an orphaned child, especially with that 4.6 motor. They can be made to run quick but will not stand up to constant use.

You can bet a Saleen Camaro will be mucho bucks! I'll wait and see what Berger, Baldwin and others come up with.

My guess is that even if Saleen is involved, you won't see a "Saleen Camaro" any more than we saw an "SLP Camaro" on the 4ths. My guess is that Saleen will be the build-house for the SS just like SLP used to do, or Saleen will just buy and resell Camaros like he used to do with Mustangs. While you can get a Saleen Mustang through many Ford dealers, it's not a ford-offered product in the same way that the Cobra is. Likewise, I think Chevy will still have their Z28 and SS, and if you want a Camaro from Saleen, you get it from Saleen or through some dealer that he's aligned with.

you bring up an interesting point, but it has also been said ;) ;) that GM doesn't particularly want to get involved with Tier 1's anymore... going to the dealer for GM Performance Parts is where it's at.... that's all i'll say :D

I like Mr. Saleen more just for the fact that he may have let it slip out what engine may be an option from GM...or maybe he was spying on GM for ford! :lol: although I believe in that same interview he mentioned that the mustang GT will be at 350hp in 2009...whoop dee doo ;)

although I believe in that same interview he mentioned that the mustang GT will be at 350hp in 2009...whoop dee doo ;)
They're only ~11 years late to that party!! :p (I'm talking about the ~350 HP LS1, for those of you who don't get what I mean;)).

I didn't bother reading all 6+ pages here but I'm willing to bet the Camaro will have the same motor as the base C6, although the C6 will advertise 450HP and the Camaro will advertise 400HP.

LS1 ala C5 anyone? :D Same motor, just paper HP difference.

The more types(ie saleen, ss..etc) the better I think.

I ran across this little snippet on a different site that I frequent. Typically I don't pass on info like this but it came from a member on the site that I find to be very realiable as far as good source of info.

The snippet comes from a yet to be released article in an up comming Road and Track magazine. This is a direct quote from that members post as to what Steve Saleen said during an interview.

Saleen: I hope I don't get in trouble with GM for saying this, but they're using a 6.2 liter 450 horsepower engine for the premium V8 in the 2009 Camaro and the base Corvette. The base V8 will probably be a detuned version of the same 6.2. So we'll just upgrade the 6.2 liter V8 to Saleen level specifications. We're going to upgrade the 6.2 liter V8 if we're given the legal chance by GM. Our base model should have around 485 horsepower, and expect our Extreme Supercharged Camaro to have over 600 horsepower.


Take this as you will, don't believe it...fine, do believe it...fine. All I ask is that you don't shoot the messenger.

I ran across this little snippet on a different site that I frequent. Typically I don't pass on info like this but it came from a member on the site that I find to be very realiable as far as good source of info.

The snippet comes from a yet to be released article in an up comming Road and Track magazine. This is a direct quote from that members post as to what Steve Saleen said during an interview.

Saleen: I hope I don't get in trouble with GM for saying this, but they're using a 6.2 liter 450 horsepower engine for the premium V8 in the 2009 Camaro and the base Corvette. The base V8 will probably be a detuned version of the same 6.2. So we'll just upgrade the 6.2 liter V8 to Saleen level specifications. We're going to upgrade the 6.2 liter V8 if we're given the legal chance by GM. Our base model should have around 485 horsepower, and expect our Extreme Supercharged Camaro to have over 600 horsepower.


Take this as you will, don't believe it...fine, do believe it...fine. All I ask is that you don't shoot the messenger.

Look at the first post in this thread, It says the same thing....

I didn't bother reading all 6+ pages here but I'm willing to bet the Camaro will have the same motor as the base C6, although the C6 will advertise 450HP and the Camaro will advertise 400HP.

LS1 ala C5 anyone? :D Same motor, just paper HP difference.

They did share the same motor, but the C5's intake (air box & routing to TB) and exhaust system (including exhaust manifolds) were more efficient/effective than that in the F-Body. As installed, the engine in the Corvette did make more power.

Nothing new, they did the same trick with the L98 and LT1 from the C4 when they put those motors in F-Bodies. Chevy doesn't want to piss any of those elitist Corvette guys off ;).

50hp sounds a bit extreme to me, I'd guess between 20-30hp less than the "normal" Corvette if they share the same engine.
..............unless they decide to have the Corvette get the LS3 one year earlier than they introduce it in the Camaro similar to the way the LT1 was in the Vette in 92 and F-Body in 93, and then later, the LS1 in the Vette in 97 and in the F-Body in 98.

maybe im misreading, but it seems like a lot of people who might have an idea of whats going on are staying away from this thread.


:)

quite observant of you.

They did share the same motor, but the C5's intake (air box & routing to TB) and exhaust system (including exhaust manifolds) were more efficient/effective than that in the F-Body. As installed, the engine in the Corvette did make more power.

Nothing new, they did the same trick with the L98 and LT1 from the C4 when they put those motors in F-Bodies. Chevy doesn't want to piss any of those elitist Corvette guys off ;).

50hp sounds a bit extreme to me, I'd guess between 20-30hp less than the "normal" Corvette if they share the same engine.
..............unless they decide the have the Corvette get the LS3 one year earlier than they introduce it in the Camaro similar to the way the LT1 was in the Vette in 92 and F-Body in 93, and then later, the LS1 in the Vette in 97 and in the F-Body in 98.


I understand about what you are referring too as in the past this was the case with rating Corvette vs Camaro HP. But I do beleive it has changed now with the GTO, TB SS, and CTS-V, SSR, they all use the base engine (LS2) as the Corvette does without any HP loss. So maybe GM does not care as much about pissing off Corvette owners?

Here was a certain someone's response to this story when it was posted on another board that I moderate.

My posterior!!! (political correct way of saying "my a&#!!!")

maybe we will hear about it in the podcast tomorrow.

I understand about what you are referring too as in the past this was the case with rating Corvette vs Camaro HP. But I do beleive it has changed now with the GTO, TB SS, and CTS-V, SSR, they all use the base engine (LS2) as the Corvette does without any HP loss. So maybe GM does not care as much about pissing off Corvette owners?

As they shouldn't. The motor is just one variable. The vette is a better car becasue of the amount of effort that is put in to ensure it is light weight, as aerodynamic as possible, with great handling. This is what puts the vette in a league of its own, not just the power of its motor. These factors are what vette owners pay for. They shouldn't be pissed becasue a GTO or Camaro is rated at the same HP becasue on any given day the vette will still kick its butt stock for stock.

Here was a certain someone's response to this story when it was posted on another board that I moderate.

What part of the story was Fbodfather referring to in his comment?

I understand about what you are referring too as in the past this was the case with rating Corvette vs Camaro HP. But I do beleive it has changed now with the GTO, TB SS, and CTS-V, SSR, they all use the base engine (LS2) as the Corvette does without any HP loss. So maybe GM does not care as much about pissing off Corvette owners?


Hmmm..........now that you mention it, I think you're right.

If that were to happen, the Corvette "should" still have the acceleration advantage due to it's lighter weight so the Vette guys can still feel superior over Camaro owners. ;)

Here was a certain someone's response to this story when it was posted on another board that I moderate.

My posterior!!! (political correct way of saying "my a&#!!!")

WOOHOO!

i'll drink to that! http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/images/smilies/drink.gif now where's that iced tea? ;)

Just a few random responses to some of the posts....

I dont see GM going a Tier 1 relationship for the 5th gen like they did with SLP and ASC for the 4th gens. They dont want to share that large a slice of the pie with anyone.

Saleen would be dumb not trying jump into the Camaro segment of the aftermarket. Why not? Look at the money GMMG was able to command for their cars.

Any vehicle using a Corvette derived V8 is going to be slightly detuned. Be that by weight, PCM, induction, exhaust. GM is not going to let another OE car be faster. Yes, the Corvette owners have that much pull.

proof - when SLP brought their 1LE SS test mule to GM, Heinricy beat his C5 Z51 lap times. SLP was told they could not release that information.

GM may use the same engine as the Vette, but the difference really wasn't in advertised HP alone, but torque. The advertised HP/TQ on an upgraded SS in 2002-from SLP w/exhaust & box was 345/350. The Vette was 350/375(w/6-speed). We will just hafta see where things go from here once the cat is out of the bag in 2007.

Look at the first post in this thread, It says the same thing....

Whoops...I skimmed over it and must have completely over looked the last paragraph.:shame: :shame: ;)

You guys can keep believing there really was a big power difference between the LS1 C5's and F-bodies, but when there are a bunch of guys out there dyno-ing well over 300 HP at the wheels in their F-bodies, and running low 13's (and some breaking into 12's) all the while, being bone stock, I don't think there's much difference from the C5's "350 HP" rating ;) (actually, 345 HP for the first ~3 or 4 years, then 350 HP for the last 4 - 5 years).

Besides, a lid and catback (the first basic mods for most F-body owners) and you're pretty much even (or better) than the 'Vette :thumb:.

Like chrisL just mentioned, there are more variables than simply "rated HP" that affect a car's overall performance ..... WEIGHT is a big factor. The Camaro will never weigh ~3200 lbs from the factory, but the 'Vette WILL (in fact, it's only ~3130 for the Z06 ;)). We're going to be LUCKY to get a 3500 lb Camaro ..... the 'Vette still owns the power/weight ratio :cool:.

Like chrisL just mentioned, there are more variables than simply "rated HP" that affect a car's overall performance ..... WEIGHT is a big factor. The Camaro will never weigh ~3200 lbs from the factory, but the 'Vette WILL (in fact, it's only ~3130 for the Z06 ;)). We're going to be LUCKY to get a 3500 lb Camaro ..... the 'Vette still owns the power/weight ratio :cool:.

Word....

Whatis the curb weight for the 4th gen Camaros anyway? Were they close to 35xx lbs? If they pump out a Camaro between 3500 - 3600 lbs I will be one happy camper. However with the Mustang GT500 weighing in at 3900+ and the GT probably near this weight (I couldn't find the weight of a regular GT) is it reasonable to expect a 35-3600 lb camaro?

Besides, a lid and catback (the first basic mods for most F-body owners) and you're pretty much even (or better) than the 'Vette :thumb:.

AHEM!! some of us F-body owners don't have lids!:rolleyes: :lol: ;)




:(

Besides, a lid and cat-back (the first basic mods for most F-body owners) and you're pretty much even (or better) than the 'Vette :thumb:.


Even with those mods I'd still have to give a nod to the Corvette. Stock Vette has better exhaust manifolds and more engineering was put into the exhaust plumbing. Hell, the thing has true duals with a balance pipe.....stock.

But if you were to put some long tube headers on the F-Body then I'd definitely agree with your "better than" statement........as long as you don't take into effect the Corvette's lighter weight. :)

oh boy.. i don't think he was supposed to let those engine options slip :D.. i can't wait to hear the pricing on them

that's pretty sweet though, that Saleen is gonna do something with the Camaro.. i'm sure some people on both the Camaro and Mustang sides of things won't like it, but i think it's a great idea.

id buy one... be pretty pimp, i think camaro/mustang owners need to get over it and know they are both good cars. just different

well Scott did have something to say on chirpthird.com

http://www.chirpthird.com/vb/showthread.php?p=75433#post75433
Wonder what the FBODFATHER would have to say if and when he reads this? :confused:

I thought Saleen was only into Fords? :confused:

My posterior!!! (political correct way of saying "my a&#!!!")

AHEM!! some of us F-body owners don't have lids!:rolleyes:
The LT1 is such a distant memory at this point, I didn't think it was worth comparing? :shrug: But even at that, how much difference was there between LT1 'Vettes and F-bodies?? :confused:

Even with those mods I'd still have to give a nod to the Corvette. Stock Vette has better exhaust manifolds and more engineering was put into the exhaust plumbing. Hell, the thing has true duals with a balance pipe.....stock.
More engineering into the exhaust?? :rolleyes: I'd say it's the other way around!! Look at what each car offers in terms of exhaust routing. The C5's routing is self-explanitory!! Any "idiot" would route it how the factory did, because it makes perfect sense, and it works without a fight. The F-bodies, however, with little to no room for routing an exhaust system, probably took twice as much time to "engineer" ... heck, look at the Y-pipe ... GM even took the time to flatten out the driver's side so we'd get more clearance!! :rolleyes: That took some "engineering", now didn't it? ;)

But if you were to put some long tube headers on the F-Body then I'd definitely agree with your "better than" statement........as long as you don't take into effect the Corvette's lighter weight. :)
From a power perspective, LT's are over kill if you simply want to "match" the power of the C5 with an LS1 F-body. Again, as was discussed earlier, I think there's probably slightly more drivetrain loss through the IRS (half shafts) on the C5 than there is through the F-body drivetrain, so RWHP #'s may actually favor the F-body. At the end of the day, they're too close to call, and it's really a driver's race (in a straight line) :cool:.

More engineering into the exhaust?? :rolleyes: I'd say it's the other way around!! Look at what each car offers in terms of exhaust routing. The C5's routing is self-explanitory!! Any "idiot" would route it how the factory did, because it makes perfect sense, and it works without a fight. The F-bodies, however, with little to no room for routing an exhaust system, probably took twice as much time to "engineer" ... heck, look at the Y-pipe ... GM even took the time to flatten out the driver's side so we'd get more clearance!! :rolleyes: That took some "engineering", now didn't it? ;)


From a power perspective, LT's are over kill if you simply want to "match" the power of the C5 with an LS1 F-body. Again, as was discussed earlier, I think there's probably slightly more drivetrain loss through the IRS (half shafts) on the C5 than there is through the F-body drivetrain, so RWHP #'s may actually favor the F-body. At the end of the day, they're too close to call, and it's really a driver's race (in a straight line) :cool:.

............Just to argue :D

So then it sounds like you agree that the stock Corvette exhaust is better than the F-Bodie's?

As far as more drive train loss......who knows :shrug:.

As far as a "driver's" race I agree 100%. I remember one time at the track with my 2001 SS I saw a 2001 (or newer) auto Vette and C5 Z06. The best the auto Corvette could get was high 14's and the best the Z06 could muster was a VERY low 14. On the same day I was getting 13.5 @ 107 and I don't think I can drive! Jsst goes to show that power (and less weight) can't make up for a driver's incompetence.

...............ummmm, what are we arguing about again............oh yeah, I'm still convinced that a stock C5 will get more RWHP than a stock LS1 F-Body barring any "factory freaks".:)

Did that buddy of yours finally get his 87 Corvette up & running? What route did he end up going with?

............Just to argue :D

So then it sounds like you agree that the stock Corvette exhaust is better than the F-Bodies?

As far as more drive train loss......who knows :shrug:.Did that buddy of yours finally get his 87 Corvette up & running? What route did he end up going with?
Yeah, since there's nothing else "new" or "exciting" around here, a little meaningless debate can't hurt anyone!! ;)

I do agree that the factory exhaust on 'Vettes is superior to the F-bodies ... no question, True Dual > 2-into-1 :cool:.

As far as that guy with the '87 'Vette ... he was a b/f of one of my Aunt's, but keyword - "was" (they split up). Too bad, 'cause I was looking forward to helping someone else spend their money on their car!! :lol: