The need for GM to work with the aftermarket early on the new Camaro

Here is somthing to think about.

I had a talk with several reps from MR Gasket Today. I posed them a few questions about the Camaro as they were pushing hard on new Mustang parts for this years SEMA show.

I asked if they had any contact with GM on the new Camaro and if there was any chance the after market parts might be ready at the release of the new car in 09.

Sad to say but they said they were invited by GM to look and measure the car but they were not able to touch the car. This is not a good way to engineer new parts.

The Gasket reps seem to believe GM feels that the aftermarket is not very important to them and that no one will offer parts any better than GM? [Their words]

The truth is GM worked well with the aftermarket in the 60's on the first gen Camaro and the Small Block. This was one of the reasons the Camaro was as popular as it was and affordable to modify.

The 80's Mustang replaced the Camaro as the affordable hot rod and this hurt the 4th gen Camaro in the long run.

We should all hope and push GM to work with the aftermarket and to bring the many bolt on performance parts we need as soon as the car is available. The more this car is modified and worked on the better it's sales potential will be with those in the performance field. This is an area to steal Mustang sales right out from under them.

Also the aftermarket should be consulted to make a wide range of V6 parts to give us the 300 HP V6 at a affordable price. If the majority of the cars will be a V6 this is a must and a hedge with gas prices.

The reason I asked the Gasket guys is that they provide Hurst, Lakewood, Mallory and other top line aftermarket parts that played a major part in making the First Gen reach it full potential.

If GM does not work with the aftermarket during development the parts we need to compete with the already available Mustang parts will be available no sooner than 2010 or 11.

By the way the Mustang part they were showing were to beaf up the control arms per the stock ones are not strong enough to hold anything over stock HP. Also the stock aluminum water pumps crack if used with a supercharger. So right now the new stang is a weak build up model with out extensive mods to hold the power. Oh they also have a lot of strut tower flex like the old ones and need a weld in bar to tie the K member in.

Right now is when GM can capitalize on the Mustang short comings in the after market. So if we want to see the Camaro as the dominate car at the track, the time is now to let GM know.

How would the greats like Zora, Delorean, Perkins and Piggins handle the new car and engine?

A red magazine cover pilot car to Hot Rod might be a good start.

Scott I hope you can give us some idea if GM plans to offer some good lead time to the parts makers so we can play with this car from the start.

We all know the Camaro is going to be a great car but few of us can leave them stock. Most owners like to make his his own and can not afford SLP of GMMG.

Just watch SEMA and see what will be offered for the Mustang just this year.

If there is little aftermarket, they will lose not a majority, but a substantial amount of enthusiasts.
They'd have to be retarded to think aftermarket doesn't matter.
(and they aren't retarded, so i hope your information is wrong.)
Look at Toyota's Scion.
...look at how many riced out civics you see. There is a huge aftermarket for them, so people into that will buy them just for that reason.

What measurements did they take? I don't see how you can get gasket measurements without removing the part. Also, we are talking about the production vehicle, not the concept right? The production version is gonna completely different than the concept(but gonna look generall the same).

A red magazine cover pilot car to Hot Rod might be a good start.

As the editor (I think it was Freiburger) said. "Give us a red one with a red interior, and we'll make heroes out of ya."

Sad to say but they said they were invited by GM to look and measure the car but they were not able to touch the car. This is not a good way to engineer new parts.

This should not be a problem. The car is a CONCEPT. Virtually everything WILL CHANGE in the production version, even if very very slightly. There is no need to start engineering parts for it when they will have to be re-engineered again to production specs and measurements.

I never knew it was up to the manufacturers to "work with" aftermarket companies. I know they supply vehicles, but I didn't think it went beyond that.

So, this is not a sign of things to come. When the 4th gens came out, there was a decent aftermarket. Could have been better but it was pretty big in 1995 and the LSx aftermarket is still strong. With the global architecture of the new platform, there will be a serious reason to develop aftermarket parts.

I never knew it was up to the manufacturers to "work with" aftermarket companies. I know they supply vehicles, but I didn't think it went beyond that.

Ford is excellent about working with aftermarket tuners and component manufacturers, which is exactly why there's so much support for vehicles like the Mustang and F-150. The importance of this simply cannot be underestimated, especially with the complexity of modern vehicles.

This should not be a problem. The car is a CONCEPT. Virtually everything WILL CHANGE in the production version, even if very very slightly. There is no need to start engineering parts for it when they will have to be re-engineered again to production specs and measurements.
My thoughts exactly. Besides, since they currently only have 1 ... let me capitalize that ... ONE running/working concept built right now (there's no point counting the mock-ups) then I think they're going to be pretty protective of that ONE car until they have SEVERAL true pre-production cars that they can start playing with at will, with less worry about scratching, denting, or damaging their ONE and only CONCEPT!! ;)

And, seeing as there are still nearly 2 years to go, I'm sure the aftermarket companies will have plenty of opportunity to get their hands on a real production version and have parts ready when they hit the streets :cool:.

I don't think the folks at Mr. Gasket should be too upset, afterall, they would feel pretty bad if they spent thousands on research and design to fab up parts for a car that will most likely have a completely different powertrain altogether.

If Mr Gasket doesnt already make LS2 parts, that's their problem.

my guess is once GM actively starts testing the car for final production is when they will send out cars to the aftermarket. GM knows how important the aftermarket currently is. they learned that lesson in the sport compact market a few years ago. im not worried about the camaro not having good aftermarket support

What measurements did they take? I don't see how you can get gasket measurements without removing the part.

This is funny. They make much more than Gaskets :)

with less worry about scratching, denting, or damaging their ONE and only CONCEPT!! ;) :cool:.


The concept has a scratch on teh right fender. I saw it today and took a picture!!!!
:D

Attention !!!

Please note: I never said in my post they were measuring the Concept car!!!!!!

They were NOT planning to MEASURING the CONCEPT CAMARO. They were invited when available to measure a prodution car. Please do not ask when they planned to do that as they did not say.

Who in there right mind would measure a one off concept?? What would tbe the point??? Why ould anyone even consider this???

For those who did not read the post all the way through. Gasket makes Hurst shifters. Lakewood Bell housings and suspention parts, Mallory ignition, Accel ignitions and fuel injection upgrades, Hays clutches, and many many more aftermarket parts. They account for about 1/4 of the aftermarket. Oh yes they still make gaskets.

The point is Ford and other MFG's have been giving better lead times to get performance parts out and GM has not been coperating as well for the last few years. The Mustang has florished in the 80's and 90's in the performance field with enthusiast because of readily available and low cost performance parts. Heck Ford even gave my company a prototype N95 Mustang converitble to build a project car.

Chevy started in the 50's working with the aftermarket with the SBC and made it the engine of choice as it also did on the early Camaro's. They have a chance to repeat this but if they don't work with the MFG's and give them a lead time parts will not be available, cheap and you will not see many till 2011.

All I ask it companies like Edelbrock, Holley, FLowmaster, Hurst, Hedman, Borla, Crane, Ram, KNN, Paxton, Eibach etc are given a good lead time to make the parts needed to compete with the modified Mustangs right out of the box. Don't make us wait 1-2 years for the parts to reach the market after the cars reaches showrooms because of the lack of lead time.

Anyway this is just something to think about now before you start looking for the cold air indution system for that new 2009 Camaro you bought only to be told it won't be out till 2010 or later because they just got their first Camaro to fit the parts to and get certified by the C.A.R.B. board.

There is a letter written by Zora Arkus-Duntov, to I believe, Ed Cole, circa 1954. He talks about the upcoming smallblock V8 and the '55 Chevy. He describes how it was important to support these cars and engines with performance parts and developement, if Chevy is to get the attention of "hotrodders"- who at the time considered the Flathead Ford an icon. It's been many years since I've read it, so I can't remember the whole thing.

Anyway, it's a letter of great significance. I tried to find it and post it, but no luck. I'll try again later.

There is a letter written by Zora Arkus-Duntov, to I believe, Ed Cole, circa 1954. He talks about the upcoming smallblock V8 and the '55 Chevy. He describes how it was important to support these cars and engines with performance parts and developement, if Chevy is to get the attention of "hotrodders"- who at the time considered the Flathead Ford an icon. It's been many years since I've read it, so I can't remember the whole thing.

Anyway, it's a letter of great significance. I tried to find it and post it, but no luck. I'll try again later.


I have read this letter and it still speaks volumes today with the performance market. Giving the performance companies some help will reap an automaker so much more in return.

Lets face it, if this letter was not written the SBC may have never been the engine of choice for so many over the years.

Much good or bad can be learned from history. Too many forget that.

When the 4th gens came out, there was a decent aftermarket. Could have been better but it was pretty big in 1995 and the LSx aftermarket is still strong. With the global architecture of the new platform, there will be a serious reason to develop aftermarket parts.

You're crazy. The f-body aftermarket was almost non existant back in the early 90's. Lets not even compare it to the Mustang aftermarket.

You're crazy. The f-body aftermarket was almost non existant back in the early 90's.

I didn't say early 90's, I said 1995...mid-90's.

Lets not even compare it to the Mustang aftermarket.

I didn't.

You're crazy. The f-body aftermarket was almost non existant back in the early 90's. Lets not even compare it to the Mustang aftermarket.


yea, I don't expect much, there really won't be a need for it.

Even giving the aftermarket 6 months to a year head start would be a great idea. We'll have to wait until GM gets more pre-production cars made that are going to be close to the actual final product.

Ford went all out on the new Mustang, letting aftermarket manufacturers and racers develope products and already have articles in magazines months before you could even purchase the car. I hope GM learned from that.

yea, I don't expect much, there really won't be a need for it.

That's what I was thinking back then was the case. In mid 90's as Jason says the Mustang had tons more parts IMHO, because it needed them more than the F-twins;), they were quite a pkg. right out of the box, and didn't need that much to make em' faster.:D I would also agree that Duntov's letter to Cole was extremely important, I kinda recall hearing about, or reading this letter somewhere! :think: GM needs more people like the people of that era, they did tremendous things with the American automobile especially Zora, Cole, Delorean, Earl, etc.. There were countless others, most of us are probably just familiar with their names. :bow: I agree Hot Rod should get a Red one to play with once again. I'd bet that once they get a run of cars ready, they will send them over to the right people, who can make some parts for us.

A Newbie here. I have been reading threads on here for the last few hours and thought I'd finally register and chime in on this topic.

Having just returned from GM's ride and drive for the All-New Silverado yesterday, I can share some insight on the aftermarket situation. The GM rep told us they were delaying the aftermarket product sharing releases for about 90-120 days to allow for more sales of their in-house Chevy Accessories. These ranged from rims, chrome trim, engine performance bolt-ons, chips, etc. This also allows for the buyer to have these items dealer installed at the time of purchase for 2 key advantages: covered under the 100k warranty and financed along with the purchase price.

Just a few thoughts.