Raced my first mustang tonight....

I was in my new-to-me 2001 v6 camaro on the way home on the interstate. I passed up an 02-03 v6 mustang.

All of a sudden it came back up next to me and leveled out. We both took off from a roll at 70. I think his was an auto though. When I dropped mine down a gear, he just couldnt keep up.

I just pulled away and finally let up when I hit 115 and he just kept falling further and further back. :D He was trying but just didnt have enough in it to keep up.

This was the first time to run my new camaro against anything, it was awesome....even though it is only a v6. I had a blast with it.

Just thought I would share.

Sounds like fun :) I had a cobra try me today but unfortunatly it was raining :cry:

Good kill save up for an LS1.

I didnt buy it for performance, but for better gas mileage and a lower monthly payment then my jeep.

And believe me, the pennies are already being saved for 2009 :cool:

Just me perhaps, but all of your guys races sound freaking long. When i race its short and simple, i dont know....whatever.

Nice! :D I was really hoping it was a GT that you layed the smack down on though! ;) (not really that far off, to be honest;)). Good job keeping the gold medal on our side :thumb:.

A v6 camaro of any year couldnt on its best day take a 99-04 GT. Its just not going to happen. A edge body mustang will run dead even or beat a LT1 mod for mod EVERYTIME. I know because I OWN both. The LS1 is more cobra territory. So GM still mid level car will lb for lb win but the Cobra terminators were built to beat the camaro SS and firebird WS6 not the vettes to which they are compared.

I dont like going from board to board and watch people talk **** about the other manufacturers cars when they are still freakin AMERICAN.

People need to stop internet racing. Thats the easy part. Just cause some guy who CAN drive his manual can do a 12.9 with his stock LS1 doesnt mean your gear missing asses can do it.

Just because a 03-04 Cobra is obviously lb for lb the fastest of the pony cars doesnt mean a retarded driver cant lose to even a lt1 in a short enough race.

I dont like going from board to board and watch people talk **** about the other manufacturers cars when they are still freakin AMERICAN.

People need to stop internet racing. Thats the easy part. Just cause some guy who CAN drive his manual can do a 12.9 with his stock LS1 doesnt mean your gear missing asses can do it.
Oh, come on, that's what keeps things interesting ;). Obviously the Camaro guys will root for fellow Camaros, and knock pretty much anything else, unless it's something worthy like a blown Mustang, a 'Vette, or something along those lines ... then they'll get respect and won't get trash talked (I mean the Mustangs). But I don't think there will be too many Ricers you hear about getting much "respect" around here (that's half the fun, poking fun at them!:D).

Of course good/bad drivers can make/break a race ... that's why people still race, because you never know who's going to win, even if one guy has a Viper and another has a V6 Camaro :p.

Thing is, I've seen newer 4.6L 'Stangs running high 14's / low 15's, and I'm pretty sure that 3.8L Camaros are capable of close to that, so that's why I said that buddy wasn't all that far off a GT:thumb:. Sorry, it's not meant to be trash talking or slamming another American car ... just "bench racing" and having a little fun;).

Didnt mean to come at you but I get it over at corral.net too. They talk down the lt1 all the time. Its a good motor with a bad distributor and iffy heads. Mustangs at least 4.6s dont even have a aftermarket casting for their heads. I just think that American muscle is just that. I cant stand the mentally challenged who think just because it says ford or chevrolet means its garbage and it will be owned no matter what because someone is a brand loyalist badass.:D

I own both and love both, I on the other hand support fully ricer trash talk. They are just uncalled for.

i dont think a 4.6 mustang (99-04) has anything to defend, ive seen stock eclipse Gts beating 4.6 mustangs on the street, so I dont think those guys have anything to talk down the LT1 or LS1.

Alot of the wins against american muscle people see, whether its a camaro or a mustang is because of driver error.

Seriously who here is going to say they cant drive really well? People have taken out cars and run times that are almost a second to slow for what they can be driven.

If you look at what times real drivers can do you will see what the car can do.

ANYTHING can happen on the street. A short enough distance and you could walk a z06 or gt500 aswell. A short race could make a lt1 seem able to beat a ls1.

Who gives a **** what happens on the street. Racing shouldnt be happening there anyways.

i dont think a 4.6 mustang (99-04) has anything to defend, ive seen stock eclipse Gts beating 4.6 mustangs on the street, so I dont think those guys have anything to talk down the LT1 or LS1.

Seriously? Please do tell us more and enlighten us with your plethora of knowledge, would you please? Thanks and I look forward to your response. :bow:

response?to what? i was just sharing an experience of mine. Also , no 4.6 GTs dont impress me at all.

response?to what? i was just sharing an experience of mine. Also , no 4.6 GTs dont impress me at all.

Experience of yours? So you're experience is supposed to pass on to all of us here? Should we take your word as the gospel? Since you have a wealth of knowledge, please do share this plethora about the 4.6's to me, would you please? I'm in a learning mood tonight and ready to be schooled and will be patiently waiting for this information............

How long have you been racing? Do you race or do you just sit behind the keyboard racing? What ET have you run ( this means YOUR car not your uncles brothers sisters aunts car)? How long have you been building engines? Have you ever built a 4.6?

By the way, I could care less if my 4.6 impresses you. Fact of the matter is that it would crack your azz and that's that. :D

Thank you and I'll be looking forward to reading your dissertation on the 4.6L and so will the rest of CZ28.com ....

School is in session folks please everyone give a round of applause to korrrray34.

Experience of yours? So you're experience is supposed to pass on to all of us here? Should we take your word as the gospel? Since you have a wealth of knowledge, please do share this plethora about the 4.6's to me, would you please? I'm in a learning mood tonight and ready to be schooled and will be patiently waiting for this information............

How long have you been racing? Do you race or do you just sit behind the keyboard racing? What ET have you run ( this means YOUR car not your uncles brothers sisters aunts car)? How long have you been building engines? Have you ever built a 4.6?

By the way, I could care less if my 4.6 impresses you. Fact of the matter is that it would crack your azz and that's that. :D

Thank you and I'll be looking forward to reading your dissertation on the 4.6L and so will the rest of CZ28.com ....

School is in session folks please everyone give a round of applause to korrrray34.


I see you are continuing to school the children in the kills section Tim:D:D:D

Experience of yours? So you're experience is supposed to pass on to all of us here? Should we take your word as the gospel? Since you have a wealth of knowledge, please do share this plethora about the 4.6's to me, would you please? I'm in a learning mood tonight and ready to be schooled and will be patiently waiting for this information............

How long have you been racing? Do you race or do you just sit behind the keyboard racing? What ET have you run ( this means YOUR car not your uncles brothers sisters aunts car)? How long have you been building engines? Have you ever built a 4.6?

By the way, I could care less if my 4.6 impresses you. Fact of the matter is that it would crack your azz and that's that. :D

Thank you and I'll be looking forward to reading your dissertation on the 4.6L and so will the rest of CZ28.com ....

School is in session folks please everyone give a round of applause to korrrray34.


So to say 4.6s dont impress me, I need to have built a 4.6 before? so everytime I need to have an opinion about a car, I have to built its motor and race it then get an ET for it? Are you serious?
I dont have a fast car, only a 94 z28 6 speed but even that has no problem taking 4.6 GTs. I have never seen an impressive stock 4.6 GT, and I dont think Im the one to blame on that one.
You may have a fast 4.6 but dont think everybody else's is the same way.

So to say 4.6s dont impress me, I need to have built a 4.6 before? so everytime I need to have an opinion about a car, I have to built its motor and race it then get an ET for it? Are you serious?
I dont have a fast car, only a 94 z28 6 speed but even that has no problem taking 4.6 GTs. I have never seen an impressive stock 4.6 GT, and I dont think Im the one to blame on that one.
You may have a fast 4.6 but dont think everybody else's is the same way.

Haven't you gotten the hint that we don't care about your opinion nor do we care about your slow LT1? Your 13 second Camaro doesn't impress me either but you didn't see me stating that until now. Matter of fact, if you have no problem taking 4.6 GTs as you clearly stated above, you won't mind running heads up at Capitol, correct? :eek:

I see you are continuing to school the children in the kills section Tim:D:D:D

Hey stranger! :D

Well I'm not impressed with a stock 4.6L either nor am I with a Caravan, but when I see 11.2 and 13.5 out of each, I have to say true sleeper and that impresses me! :bow: I don't know why "people" around here can't give credit where credit is due? I would think it would be funny and bad ass if I pulled up to badazz and he SSpanked me when I looked and figured I would put a hurtin on that little 4.6L, to see tail lights out of that thing would blow my mind! To all the haters......just pipe down!

Thanks bud I appreciate that. I ran the 11.2 last season and based on the seat-o-meter and the dynometer, the car will run much faster with the new setup. I'm going to cross my fingers that I can work out the existing tune bugs and take her for a run down the track before snow hits the ground. We'll see.

Here is a good friend of mine running his slow 4.6 (SOHC 2V). (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3935527738268537038&pr=goog-sl) Our combinations/setups are very very similar.

Haven't you gotten the hint that we don't care about your opinion nor do we care about your slow LT1? Your 13 second Camaro doesn't impress me either but you didn't see me stating that until now. Matter of fact, if you have no problem taking 4.6 GTs as you clearly stated above, you won't mind running heads up at Capitol, correct? :eek:

first of all , you are taking this personal. I sent that message to the camaroz28.com forum, not your personal email account. So if you think my opinion is worthless and then just ignore it.

Im not here to impress anyone here with an LT1 but at least Im on the correct forum, Im not going on a mustang forum and try to impress them.
No matter what you say or do, it will not change the fact that 4.6 GTs are inferior when you compare them to f-body cars.

Even if we go to Capitol raceway, will it satisfy you to beat a somewhat stock LT1 with a supercharged mustang? Because Im talking about "stock" 4.6 GTs being slow, of course itll be fast when you throw a SCharger on it. You can make a 1.6l motor fast with the right turbo, that does not mean 1.6 civics are fast as hell stock.

first of all , you are taking this personal. I sent that message to the camaroz28.com forum, not your personal email account. So if you think my opinion is worthless and then just ignore it.

Im not here to impress anyone here with an LT1 but at least Im on the correct forum, Im not going on a mustang forum and try to impress them.
No matter what you say or do, it will not change the fact that 4.6 GTs are inferior when you compare them to f-body cars.

Even if we go to Capitol raceway, will it satisfy you to beat a somewhat stock LT1 with a supercharged mustang? Because Im talking about "stock" 4.6 GTs being slow, of course itll be fast when you throw a SCharger on it. You can make a 1.6l motor fast with the right turbo, that does not mean 1.6 civics are fast as hell stock.

I find the back peddling very amusing --- thanks for the entertainment. You think I'm on here to impress people? I've been on this forum when the forum started and happen to have a lot of friends with Fbody cars but you want to try and use the "mustang guy on an Fbody board" angle with me --- nice try keep grasping. Matter of fact, I've helped quite a few folks with Fbody cars in the past and will do so in the future.

No it won't make me feel any better racing your 13 second car at Capitol unless we're back 6 or 7 years when I was running those kind of times.

Any more excuses that you'd like to come up with? Is your opti spark working ok? All hail the LT1 :bow:

first of all , you are taking this personal. I sent that message to the camaroz28.com forum, not your personal email account. So if you think my opinion is worthless and then just ignore it.

You posted in this thread Sherlock, it's open territory to whoever wants to show it is wrong.

Im not here to impress anyone here with an LT1 but at least Im on the correct forum, Im not going on a mustang forum and try to impress them.

Tim has been here for years and is a respected member. He like others here has owned both sets. I remember when his car went from being quicker than a normal non PI GT (I believe he trapped 97 stock) to the monster it is today. You have not been here long enough to tell anyone that they should not be here.


No matter what you say or do, it will not change the fact that 4.6 GTs are inferior when you compare them to f-body cars.

And how is that? The fastest 4.6 based SOHC and DOHC cars are faster than the fasters LT1 and LS1 based cars with the fastest SOHC car being in the 7's and the fastest DOHC in the mid 6's. How is that inferior? Must be that bullet proof F-body rear end...no? How about sales? Which car died again? Which car owes the very fact that it is coming back to the Mustang's success? Before you assume anything I have owned 3 F-bodies myself.


Even if we go to Capitol raceway, will it satisfy you to beat a somewhat stock LT1 with a supercharged mustang? Because Im talking about "stock" 4.6 GTs being slow, of course itll be fast when you throw a SCharger on it. You can make a 1.6l motor fast with the right turbo, that does not mean 1.6 civics are fast as hell stock.

Who cares about stock and who keeps their car stock? Tim's car would have run closer to you than you think when he was stock, he was running 14.3's on a car that was not on paper able to go that fast.

You posted in this thread Sherlock, it's open territory to whoever wants to show it is wrong.


Tim has been here for years and is a respected member. He like others here has owned both sets. I remember when his car went from being quicker than a normal non PI GT (I believe he trapped 97 stock) to the monster it is today. You have not been here long enough to tell anyone that they should not be here.



And how is that? The fastest 4.6 based SOHC and DOHC cars are faster than the fasters LT1 and LS1 based cars with the fastest SOHC car being in the 7's and the fastest DOHC in the mid 6's. How is that inferior? Must be that bullet proof F-body rear end...no? How about sales? Which car died again? Which car owes the very fact that it is coming back to the Mustang's success? Before you assume anything I have owned 3 F-bodies myself.



Who cares about stock and who keeps their car stock? Tim's car would have run closer to you than you think when he was stock, he was running 14.3's on a car that was not on paper able to go that fast.

You're very close. I ran 14.2@97 bone stock to the filter back in 98. That is indeed LT1 territory. You have a great memory and time sure does fly doesn't it?

to capital we goooooooooooooooooo.

to capital we goooooooooooooooooo.

That's what I'm talkin bout!!!!!!! :D

I mean come on right Tim. I am new here but i got alot of respect for mustangs. If this kid thinks there are so slow and just a junk car then he should not have a problem racing a junk box right ?

Ill bring the beer and popcorn

Ill bring the beer and popcorn

Buttered? :D

You posted in this thread Sherlock, it's open territory to whoever wants to show it is wrong.

Thanks. I'll take that as an open invitation to jump right in ;)

Tim has been here for years and is a respected member.

So? Am I supposed to worship him now? :lol:

He like others here has owned both sets. I remember when his car went from being quicker than a normal non PI GT (I believe he trapped 97 stock) to the monster it is today. You have not been here long enough to tell anyone that they should not be here.

11.2 is a monster? You are entitled to your opinion but in my opinion he isn't a monster until he is required to have a 10 point certified cage, competitors license and window net. In other words single digits baby :bow:

No one should tell anyone they can not be here. Except Moderators of course. They just break out the ban stick :eek:

The fastest 4.6 based SOHC and DOHC cars are faster than the fasters LT1 and LS1 based cars with the fastest SOHC car being in the 7's and the fastest DOHC in the mid 6's.

Well you're half right. The fastest LT1 is 8.08 @ 174 MPH so it's behind both. But the fastest LS1 went 6.86 @ 205 MPH so it has the SOHC beat. Not quite to the mid 6's of the DOHC but maybe the W2W boys will work on that. It's still damn impressive as is any car in the single digits regardless of what kind of vehicle.

How is that inferior? Must be that bullet proof F-body rear end...no?

For 300 rwhp the 10 bolt made sense. Strong enough for that and it eats less HP then the 12 bolt or 9". If you want to make any car faster then stock you need to look at the weak links and upgrade appropriately. I still like 13's stock as a starting point though ;)

How about sales? Which car died again?

Yeah because FORD is doing real well right now. How many people did they recently lay off? The reason the F-body died (or went on a hiatus) is because of the V6 sales. More girls were buying V6 Mustangs and that hurt the V6 F-body sales. They can't sustain the V8 sales without the V6. I personally think this is because the base Vette is within the blue collar guys reach where the Mustang has no flagship car in that price range other then a Cobra which is still a Mustang.

Which car owes the very fact that it is coming back to the Mustang's success?

It's was not just FORD but Dodge as well with their Charger. That and GM was given a few petitions looking for the return of the Camaro. Every little bit helps. Retro looks have been selling but I personally think it's a phase that'll pass. By the time the Camaro comes out it may all ready be over and that would suck. But I don't work for FORD or GM so my job is safe :D

Before you assume anything I have owned 3 F-bodies myself.

I'm thrilled to to hear it.

Who cares about stock and who keeps their car stock?

Umm how about 95% or more of the people who own a car. Not in places like this of course but the general public does not mod thier mini-vans :lol:

Many kids or people on tight budgets can not afford to mod thier cars because that takes cash in hand vs a car loan you can make payments on. If that's the case then why not get a car that at least runs 13's like a LS1, new GT or mach one.

Tim's car would have run closer to you than you think when he was stock, he was running 14.3's on a car that was not on paper able to go that fast.

That's great. Nothing wrong with a car running stronger then expected times.

So? Am I supposed to worship him now? :lol:


I hope not that would be scary! lol.

I hope not that would be scary! lol.

Hehe :D

of course it will be buttered who eats plain pop corn these days.

on with the show and off to capital we goooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!

You posted in this thread Sherlock, it's open territory to whoever wants to show it is wrong.
There is nothing wrong with him showing me wrong. But he seems to take this too personal, by that I mean, he seems to think Im talking about his GT.


Tim has been here for years and is a respected member. He like others here has owned both sets. I remember when his car went from being quicker than a normal non PI GT (I believe he trapped 97 stock) to the monster it is today. You have not been here long enough to tell anyone that they should not be here.

You should practice your english reading skills, I never told anyone not to be here, I only said " at least Im on the right forum since I own an LT1 ".



And how is that? The fastest 4.6 based SOHC and DOHC cars are faster than the fasters LT1 and LS1 based cars with the fastest SOHC car being in the 7's and the fastest DOHC in the mid 6's. How is that inferior? Must be that bullet proof F-body rear end...no? How about sales? Which car died again? Which car owes the very fact that it is coming back to the Mustang's success? Before you assume anything I have owned 3 F-bodies myself.

Who cares about sales? if sales mattered , we would all be racing honda accords. I was talking about "stock" but again, you seem like you need some practice on reading.



Who cares about stock and who keeps their car stock? Tim's car would have run closer to you than you think when he was stock, he was running 14.3's on a car that was not on paper able to go that fast.

If Tim is a great driver, good for him. Im not talking about drivers, I was just talking about a STOCK 4.6 . As for who keeps their cars stock, thats a whole different arguement.

This thing all started because I wrote an experience of a buddy of mine taking a 2004 Gt with his 01 eclipse gts. I guess Gt needed a supercharger to beat him too.LOL

You're very close. I ran 14.2@97 bone stock to the filter back in 98. That is indeed LT1 territory. You have a great memory and time sure does fly doesn't it?

I also remember that you added mods and went slower;) :p

Thanks. I'll take that as an open invitation to jump right in ;)

Feel free



So? Am I supposed to worship him now? :lol:

I believe choice of religion is a right in this country. The ass kissing begin at 7:00 A.M.



11.2 is a monster? You are entitled to your opinion but in my opinion he isn't a monster until he is required to have a 10 point certified cage, competitors license and window net. In other words single digits baby :bow:
For a 4.6 SOHC, yes it is;) :p


No one should tell anyone they can not be here. Except Moderators of course. They just break out the ban stick :eek:

Agreed.



Well you're half right. The fastest LT1 is 8.08 @ 174 MPH so it's behind both. But the fastest LS1 went 6.86 @ 205 MPH so it has the SOHC beat. Not quite to the mid 6's of the DOHC but maybe the W2W boys will work on that. It's still damn impressive as is any car in the single digits regardless of what kind of vehicle.

I have not kept up with it for at least a year and a half, I will have to look up the SOHC record again.


For 300 rwhp the 10 bolt made sense. Strong enough for that and it eats less HP then the 12 bolt or 9".

It made no sense, any sticky tire and pop!! I have seen 2 stock LS1's blow rear ends on moderate launches using street slicks and one lose a few teeth using Dr's. I doubt that the 12 bolt (almost identical to the Ford 8.8) used much more hp than the 10 inch. It was a matter of G.M. being cheap.


If you want to make any car faster then stock you need to look at the weak links and upgrade appropriately. I still like 13's stock as a starting point though ;

You better upgrade that weak 10 bolt or you won't go far.


Yeah because FORD is doing real well right now

What exactly does this have to do with anything? Perhaps you might want to visit the 5th gen section where is is regarded as fact that Mustang sales are what brought the Camaro back. Don't forget that Lutz when asked said "The Camaro might come back....in 30 years"


How many people did they recently lay off?

G.M. laid off just as many if not more, so?
The reason the F-body died (or went on a hiatus) is because of the V6 sales. More girls were buying V6 Mustangs and that hurt the V6 F-body sales.

Another B.S. so called fact. Here is a reality check for you, 70% of Mustang sales are to males. Fact of the matter is that the Mustang was simply easier to live with as a daily driver and it outsold the twins over 2-1.


They can't sustain the V8 sales without the V6.

They sell plenty of each, but the base model of each car is what sold the most. Again, so what?


I personally think this is because the base Vette is within the blue collar guys reach where the Mustang has no flagship car in that price range other then a Cobra which is still a Mustang.

A $51,000 Vette is a blue collar car:lol: :lol: :lol: The Shelby is cheaper by a damn sight at M.S.R.P. even though dealers are charging 2-3 times sticker (and getting buyers). Try again.



It's was not just FORD but Dodge as well with their Charger.
Charger has almost nothing to do with the decision to return the Camaro, this is a fact. Try again.


That and GM was given a few petitions looking for the return of the Camaro. Every little bit helps. Retro looks have been selling but I personally think it's a phase that'll pass. By the time the Camaro comes out it may all ready be over and that would suck. But I don't work for FORD or GM so my job is safe :D

The petitions did nothing, it was the cold hard sales numbers and the fact that G.M. was being left out in the cold that cemented the decision to bring the car back.




Many kids or people on tight budgets can not afford to mod thier cars because that takes cash in hand vs a car loan you can make payments on. If that's the case then why not get a car that at least runs 13's like a LS1, new GT or mach one.

You are way off the Mark here. People, especially kids, will mod whatever they have. If your scenario were the case no one would mod a damn Civic. Not everyone has or can afford an LS1 or it's insurance, many can and do mod Mustangs. Mustangs also hands down have the largest aftermarket of any vechicle.

If Tim is a great driver, good for him. Im not talking about drivers, I was just talking about a STOCK 4.6 . As for who keeps their cars stock, thats a whole different arguement.

He did it, the car was stock, what is the difference? Are you saying that only bad drivers are elligble to apply for the times list?


This thing all started because I wrote an experience of a buddy of mine taking a 2004 Gt with his 01 eclipse gts. I guess Gt needed a supercharger to beat him too.LOL

Since I have raped an Eclipse with my stock Mark VIII I think your buddy need to learn how to drive. If he can't beat a 200 HP POS then he has issues:)

Feel free.

Don't mind if I do.

I believe choice of religion is a right in this country. The ass kissing begin at 7:00 A.M.

Good to hear. I choose not to then.

For a 4.6 SOHC, yes it is;) :p

But you said,

the fastest SOHC car being in the 7's

Since it has the potential to run 7's I would say 11.2 is not a "monster". My opinion still stands as I am sure yours does as well. No offence to 1badazzgt personally because 11.2 is definately fast. I just don't consider it a monster till your running single digits and 130+ traps. But that's just me.

Agreed.

Well at least we agree on something. This is a step in the right direction :D

I have not kept up with it for at least a year and a half, I will have to look up the SOHC record again.

I'm just going by what you said. I would think you would want to be sure of your facts before you post but maybe you were in a hurry.

It made no sense, any sticky tire and pop!! I have seen 2 stock LS1's blow rear ends on moderate launches using street slicks and one lose a few teeth using Dr's. I doubt that the 12 bolt (almost identical to the Ford 8.8) used much more hp than the 10 inch. It was a matter of G.M. being cheap.

I'm sure they were being cheap. But they also know that they could get away with it. Autos have gone well into the 10's and seen 1.6 60's without breaking the 10 bolt. That doesn't mean it's strong but is a testiment to how much pre-loading the drivetrain absorbs alot of the shock. But for 300 rwhp and street tires there was no way to break the 10 bolt (even with a M6) unless you get some nasty wheel hop.

I look at it like this. I wanted to replace the gears anyway so why not get them free in a new rearend :)

You better upgrade that weak 10 bolt or you won't go far.

We just covered this didn't we? In an auto I can get to 10's on it. But like I said, I'll use it as an excuse to get a free gear upgrade (so to speak).

What exactly does this have to do with anything? Perhaps you might want to visit the 5th gen section where is is regarded as fact that Mustang sales are what brought the Camaro back. Don't forget that Lutz when asked said "The Camaro might come back....in 30 years"

You're entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. I have read more threads then I care to admit to on this subject. The only thing I will add to this is that GM was in a contract that made it so they could only build cars with the "camaro" or "firebird" name at the St. Therese plant in Canada. If I remember correctly the contract expires at the end of this year. While I am sure the sale of the retro Mustang and Challengers had an influence it was by no means the ONLY reason. But it was a big part of it.

I don't think it's a coincidense that GM announces the rebirth of the Camaro as the end of the contract is getting close. But that's just me.

G.M. laid off just as many if not more, so?

Exactly. So? You were the one who brought up sales and demises. I just pointed out that the company you were praising was in the same boat as GM.

Another B.S. so called fact. Here is a reality check for you, 70% of Mustang sales are to males. Fact of the matter is that the Mustang was simply easier to live with as a daily driver and it outsold the twins over 2-1.

I don't think so. That is what you see on paper. Sometimes the numbers lie. Most guys do not want a V6 Camaro, Firebird or Mustang. Not all but most. I bet there were alot of that 70% that were bought by men as a gift for the wife or GF. Or bought and put in his name for credit reasons but she is the driver. While those numbers went into your 70% argument they in reality added to my statement of "more girls liked the mustang".

I don't know why you care about that anyway. Isn't that a compliment?

They sell plenty of each, but the base model of each car is what sold the most. Again, so what?

They didn't sell enough V6's. I've read it so many times from so many places that I am not going to believe one person (you) over 50 others.

A $51,000 Vette is a blue collar car:lol: :lol: :lol: The Shelby is cheaper by a damn sight at M.S.R.P. even though dealers are charging 2-3 times sticker (and getting buyers). Try again.

You have to look at the big picture. First of all, these cars are often garage kept with limited driving. That means you could potentially find a 10 year old Vette with only 25,000 original miles for an affordable price. But even if you wanted a $50K 2006 base vette there are ways to get it.

As long as your credit and income checks out they will finance these friggin things for 90 months. I know how insane that is but a salesman at a Chevy dealership told me I'd be surprised how many people do this because they want the car so bad. If you put $5K down (cash or trade) and get around 7% interest you'll get the car for about $650 a month. I had a $450 car note before and if I had wanted I could of gone another $200. I am by no means rich.

I said it was within reach. I never said it was smart.

Charger has almost nothing to do with the decision to return the Camaro, this is a fact. Try again.

Nothing and almost nothing are two different things. Every little bit helps.



The petitions did nothing, it was the cold hard sales numbers and the fact that G.M. was being left out in the cold that cemented the decision to bring the car back.

You don't know that. I still say every little bit helps and nothing you say will convince me otherwise.

You are way off the Mark here. People, especially kids, will mod whatever they have. If your scenario were the case no one would mod a damn Civic. Not everyone has or can afford an LS1 or it's insurance, many can and do mod Mustangs. Mustangs also hands down have the largest aftermarket of any vechicle.

Not everyone mods thier cars. There are alot of stock F-bodies, Corvettes and Mustangs out there. It doesn't seem like it when you spend time at a site like this because you see all the sigs. But not everyone who owns a F-body is a member of sites like this. Some just wanted a fast car for a reasonable payment and are content with that because they either don't care about mods or because they can't afford them. Too many people live paycheck to paycheck and have nothing left after they pay bills.

It's becoming the american way :(

Don't mind if I do.



Good to hear. I choose not to then.



But you said,



Since it has the potential to run 7's I would say 11.2 is not a "monster". My opinion still stands as I am sure yours does as well. No offence to 1badazzgt personally because 11.2 is definately fast. I just don't consider it a monster till your running single digits and 130+ traps. But that's just me.



Well at least we agree on something. This is a step in the right direction :D



I'm just going by what you said. I would think you would want to be sure of your facts before you post but maybe you were in a hurry.



I'm sure they were being cheap. But they also know that they could get away with it. Autos have gone well into the 10's and seen 1.6 60's without breaking the 10 bolt. That doesn't mean it's strong but is a testiment to how much pre-loading the drivetrain absorbs alot of the shock. But for 300 rwhp and street tires there was no way to break the 10 bolt (even with a M6) unless you get some nasty wheel hop.

I look at it like this. I wanted to replace the gears anyway so why not get them free in a new rearend :)



We just covered this didn't we? In an auto I can get to 10's on it. But like I said, I'll use it as an excuse to get a free gear upgrade (so to speak).



You're entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. I have read more threads then I care to admit to on this subject. The only thing I will add to this is that GM was in a contract that made it so they could only build cars with the "camaro" or "firebird" name at the St. Therese plant in Canada. If I remember correctly the contract expires at the end of this year. While I am sure the sale of the retro Mustang and Challengers had an influence it was by no means the ONLY reason. But it was a big part of it.

I don't think it's a coincidense that GM announces the rebirth of the Camaro as the end of the contract is getting close. But that's just me.



Exactly. So? You were the one who brought up sales and demises. I just pointed out that the company you were praising was in the same boat as GM.



I don't think so. That is what you see on paper. Sometimes the numbers lie. Most guys do not want a V6 Camaro, Firebird or Mustang. Not all but most. I bet there were alot of that 70% that were bought by men as a gift for the wife or GF. Or bought and put in his name for credit reasons but she is the driver. While those numbers went into your 70% argument they in reality added to my statement of "more girls liked the mustang".

I don't know why you care about that anyway. Isn't that a compliment?



They didn't sell enough V6's. I've read it so many times from so many places that I am not going to believe one person (you) over 50 others.



You have to look at the big picture. First of all, these cars are often garage kept with limited driving. That means you could potentially find a 10 year old Vette with only 25,000 original miles for an affordable price. But even if you wanted a $50K 2006 base vette there are ways to get it.

As long as your credit and income checks out they will finance these friggin things for 90 months. I know how insane that is but a salesman at a Chevy dealership told me I'd be surprised how many people do this because they want the car so bad. If you put $5K down (cash or trade) and get around 7% interest you'll get the car for about $650 a month. I had a $450 car note before and if I had wanted I could of gone another $200. I am by no means rich.

I said it was within reach. I never said it was smart.



Nothing and almost nothing are two different things. Every little bit helps.





You don't know that. I still say every little bit helps and nothing you say will convince me otherwise.



Not everyone mods thier cars. There are alot of stock F-bodies, Corvettes and Mustangs out there. It doesn't seem like it when you spend time at a site like this because you see all the sigs. But not everyone who owns a F-body is a member of sites like this. Some just wanted a fast car for a reasonable payment and are content with that because they either don't care about mods or because they can't afford them. Too many people live paycheck to paycheck and have nothing left after they pay bills.

It's becoming the american way :(

Holy quotes batman! LMAO! :D

Holy quotes batman! LMAO! :D

:D I know. I definately get carried away with the quotes. But that's how I debate in details. Plus I think it's part of my charm.

Or lack there of ;)

:D I know. I definately get carried away with the quotes. But that's how I debate in details. Plus I think it's part of my charm.

Or lack there of ;)

Please tell me if I've read your dissertation wrong or not ok? The way I have read it is that if I can trap 130+ now, my car to you, would be considered a monster? :D ;)

Please tell me if I've read your dissertation wrong or not ok? The way I have read it is that if I can trap 130+ now, my car to you, would be considered a monster? :D ;)

I'm used to the world of autos so 130+ there is low 10's to high 9's. But I'll compromise. I'll say 9.99 at any trap is a full blown monster and anyone trapping 130+ but still in the 10's is a monster in training :D

You will not find a single digit car MOST of the time running on the streets either.

Low 11's or tens on the street is a fast ass car. Thats exotic territory.

This whole damn thing started because people were saying 4.6l motors are gay. I defended the GT in saying that there is no way a 4.6l is going to lose to a 3.8l.

The edge mustang especially since this is the years being taken into question would not lose to a V6. It has 260hp and 302ftlbs. A mustang v6 has 197hp and 225ftlbs and the camaro 200hp and 225ftlbs. Both of which are far less than the GT and at least the camaro V6 weighs about the same.

This thread has turned into I dont know what.

Fact is that the lt1 and pi4.6L are about equal the ls1 is still faster than both. V6's of either car cannot handle themselves against most v8 trucks and there is no freaking way they are taking a v8 of either car. There is a big reason for the price difference in the 6 and 8 series.

The discussion was a nice kill v6 against v6 that got blown out of proportion into somehow gm managed to make their almost identically rated 3.8L into a v8 ford killer.:rolleyes:

I'm used to the world of autos so 130+ there is low 10's to high 9's. But I'll compromise. I'll say 9.99 at any trap is a full blown monster and anyone trapping 130+ but still in the 10's is a monster in training :D

Damn I still can't win with your analogy then :D

Don't forget that I still run with full interior, full weight, drag radials, have a/c, stereo, etc and on pump gas. Oh and I drive to and from the track no trailer queen nor gutted out beer can.

Can I at least be considered a "mini" monster in training then? I looked at my one timeslip and it was almost 129mph. :D :cool:

Damn I still can't win with your analogy then :D

Don't forget that I still run with full interior, full weight, drag radials, have a/c, stereo, etc and on pump gas. Oh and I drive to and from the track no trailer queen nor gutted out beer can.

Can I at least be considered a "mini" monster in training then? I looked at my one timeslip and it was almost 129mph. :D :cool:

Considering all that. Yes sir. You are officailly a Mini-Monster in training. Gain 2 more MPH and I'll upgrade your status to Official Mini-Monster :D

I think your car is a frickin monster no matter what!!!! I do a little thing called comparing to what I have: prolly low 13 sec ride that I love, your is MUCH faster, therefore a monster!!!!!!

So by that logic a 20 second car could call a 17 second car a monster :shock:

But in 99formula's defense I also see what you are saying and I do support GM over ferds anyday! So lets click ours beers agree that our muscle rocks and go hunting some ports!!!!!!!

I'll drink to that. Doing a shot right now :yes:

Considering all that. Yes sir. You are officailly a Mini-Monster in training. Gain 2 more MPH and I'll upgrade your status to Official Mini-Monster :D

Kewl..... mini-monster in training :-) LOL... that's funny. thanks for helping out with this thread it was getting too serious.

Shot of what? ( I 'm a JD fan ) No, it is very circumsatantial, think about it, 20 sec car to 17 sec car could be a matter 25 horse, where you would prolly add a 0 to that ( 250 ) in SStock LS1 form to where he is at! But if you like go get a Geo storm I'll ride my 10-speed and call your Geo a "monster" if this is based on comparison!

I was just messing with you. There is no right or wrong when it comes to opinions.

And it was Crown Royal. But I too love JD :bow:

Where is that bad 13 second LT1 ............ ? Has it vanished? ;)

I think your car is a frickin monster no matter what!!!! I do a little thing called comparing to what I have: prolly low 13 sec ride that I love, your is MUCH faster, therefore a monster!!!!! But in 99formula's defense I also see what you are saying and I do support GM over ferds anyday! So lets click ours beers agree that our muscle rocks and go hunting some ports!!!!!!!

Thanks! I'm hoping to get this damn tune dialed in with this new setup so I can make a pass off the transbrake soon < fingers crossed >. Last season I could only come off the footbrake on the little drag radials resulting in a poor subpar 1.7 sixty foot. I can't wait to try some real tires, the transbrake building some boost it should be fun :)

Where is that bad 13 second LT1 ............ ? Has it vanished? ;)


im here
but the real ? is, what ever happened to codyWV? haha

im here
but the real ? is, what ever happened to codyWV? haha

hahahahaha...... maybe he's taking the supercharger off his Ferrari? :D

Cool man, well keep us posted when you crack 10's, good luck!!!

Will do. Thanks!