Can you make an LS1 as fun down low as the LT1's?

I liked my old LT1 low down torque, but, I cant get away from the idea of more horsesup top for pulling power. Can I get both worlds with the LS1?

LS1s make more torque everywhere than an LT1. they just peak higher so it feels different.

^At WOT, he is right.

But, under normal dirving conditions, low loads, etc., an LT1 DOES feel tourqier.

Ive driven both. And I KNOW mine feels stronger to just drive. Unfortunatly, I KNOW mine feels weaker at redline too ...

As stated earlier, LS1's definitely make more torque down low. Add some gears, and you'll REALLY feel it!!

remove torque management..

Or replace the muffler bearing with one out of an LT1

LS1s make more torque everywhere than an LT1. they just peak higher so it feels different.


The LT1's make TQ early in the RPM range. About 2800-3200 RPM Peak TQ, then it maintans it. The LS1's have a linear TQ curve, just keeps climbing, until around 5200rpm.

Mine... climbs from 2300....peaks @ 5000rpm it starts falling... gradually... (looking at dyno sheet)

EDIT: Comparing my dyno sheet to one I found on the net, THe LS1's seem to peak early and maintain it better than the LT1... This one was 400 HP...Hmm... :think:

Dyno runs are also made at WOT ...

Im telling you, test drive a LT1 car and a LS1 car. To drive, at part throttle, just puttin around town, a LT1 feels alot toquier. There are a million things that could make it feel that way. Under WOT, they feel about the same, until you get close to redline. This is where a LS1 car feels its best.

yeah, I've never driven an LT1 car.

I would think, if you cammed or stroked an LS1 it would make a TQy motor.

once modified theres really no comparing. stock cube LS1s can see well over 400 ft lbs of torque to the rear wheels. Ive seen a few on ls1tech that beat 430 rwtq (patrick G and allngn_c5 to name two.) you rarely ever see a stock cube LT1 above 400 rwtq.
LS1s are more efficient, but im sure everyone knew that already.


I don't really have a good comparison. Ive riden in 4 f-bodies
my car, stock, with boltons, and the 383.
two friends car, most boltons, but 6 speed
and a 6 speed LS1 with boltons, boltons with 150 shot, and later a 420 rwhp h/c package.

my 383 felt the torqueyest (I cant spell that damnit) of all. of course I had a 3500 rpm stall.
the LS1 seemed to pull further with boltons. with the heads and cam it pulled about even to my firebird with the 383.
the 6 speed LT1s both felt torquier than my car with boltons.

I dont know where im going with this but if you look at dyno charts LS1s look peakier however they generate more torque across the board than an LT1.

I think the reason that the LT1's feel faster is in the heads and cam. A stock LS1 cam has a good bit more lift on it than a LT1 does. Also, their heads flow WAY better.

If you bolt on a set of fully ported and polished heads on a otherwise STOCK car, it will loose bottom end TQ for everyday driving. It cant keep the velocity up high enough like the more restrictive stock porting does. This is why an LT1 feels so strong just driving around. But at WOT, the LS1 engine is really taking advantage of the better heads, better cam/valvetrain, and intake.

Lower gears, as mentioned, will change all that;).

Now just for another comparison, I got to drive an '87 'Vette with the L98 ... it "feels" like a torque monster! :bow:

But here's the question:

Do you want to "feel" fast, or "be" fast?? ;)

Case closed! :cool:

But here's the question:

Do you want to "feel" fast, or "be" fast?? ;)

Case closed! :cool:

Honestly, I'd rather "feel" fast than "be" fast. I drive my car for my personal enjoyment. My personal enjoyment doesn't come out of ego from having a nice/fast car, or beating other cars. It comes out of adrenaline from the experience of driving something that feels very very fast. If I could get that same feeling by cornering at 70mph that I get by cornering at 100mph, I would corner at the slower, safer speed. If I could get the same feeling by driving a turbo charged escort that I get by driving my torque monster, I'd drive the escort and get fewer tickets.. well maybe not, since the escort didn't have power windows.. so it'd be less comfortable to drive, but I think you get my point.

I didn't put gears in my car to be objectively faster, I put them in there because its hella fun to drive a car that can accelerate uphill in 2nd gear by just dumping the clutch at idle with your foot nowhere near the gas pedal (as in 0% tps). It's hella fun to do a wot pull with the cutout open and hear the engine screaming as I go sideways through the first 3 gears before my stock clutch starts slipping (that'll be fixed soon with a centerforce). If my car was AWD, it would be faster, but I'd never go sideways, and I think it'd be a little less fun to drive (unless I could selectively turn off the awd, ala skyline)..

And even with regard to straight line acceleration, if I could be accelerating slower, but feel like I was accelerating faster, I'd pick that option every time.

Just my 0.02.

I am the same way, I'd rather FEEL fast than be the fastest. But it just so happens that after I feel fast for a few months I itch for more and I know with my LS1 the high hp bar is raised quite a bit more, AND I dont have the headache of an OPTI woot.

In all honesty though, lower RPM torque motors are more practical for people who like the feel of it more than the high RPM rush. the engine rarely spends its like above 3.5k anyway let alone 5600+ where the LS1 shines with angellic light. I mean I let my car raise past 5500 maybe once every 2 weeks, depending on what f-bod or y-bod is next to me hehe

My LT1 felt more.. hmm.. rompy.. hehe thats my word for it.. I attribute it to the auto..

I can make the LS1 feel very similar but usually dont because I know how to drive. Can my LS1 beat my old LT1? ohh yeah. Hands down. Is it a power thing? Nope. My LT1 even had 3.73's and it wouldnt touch my stock LS1..
I honestly feel that the 98-2000 LS1's must feel different from mine though.

Honestly I don't know why I built an LT1, I'd much rather have a LS1 car.

Is that sarcasm? You've replaced almost everything on your car... the only thing you'd gain with an LS1 at this point is a lighter engine and better flowing heads. Add a turbo charger to your engine, and you'll have more power than you know what to do with...

Honestly I don't know why I built an LT1, I'd much rather have a LS1 car.
I felt the same way with my LT1. sometimes I think my spun bearing was just a way of getting out of it.

I felt the same way with my LT1. sometimes I think my spun bearing was just a way of getting out of it.

Care to elaborate??? Save a fellow fbody owner the pain and suffering if you are serious?

Yea that is pretty pathetic if your serious. I mean, Yes their faster. Mod for Mod, they always will be faster, but are you seriously letting it get to you that bad?

If you wanna go that far, a C6 Z06 is always going to out do you mod for mod even in a LS1. So you mind as well junk your LS1 cars and hop in them ....

Yea that is pretty pathetic if your serious. I mean, Yes their faster. Mod for Mod, they always will be faster, but are you seriously letting it get to you that bad?

If you wanna go that far, a C6 Z06 is always going to out do you mod for mod even in a LS1. So you mind as well junk your LS1 cars and hop in them ....

:think: You just want to jump the gun and yell "Traitor" don't you? :p

Honestly, I'd rather "feel" fast than "be" fast. I drive my car for my personal enjoyment. My personal enjoyment doesn't come out of ego from having a nice/fast car, or beating other cars. It comes out of adrenaline from the experience of driving something that feels very very fast...

...if I could be accelerating slower, but feel like I was accelerating faster, I'd pick that option every time.

Just my 0.02.
That's cool, and I respect that :thumb:. That's what keeps things interesting, is different views and attitudes on things. I've had guys tell me that one of the most "fun" cars to drive is a 5.0L Fox-body Mustang. But do you know how many 5.0L's I've beat??:rolleyes: I would never own one, 'cause the first time I got beat by an LS1 Camaro, I wouldn't tear apart the motor, I'd kick my a$$ for buying it, and go get another LS1 Camaro;).

It's like one of my buddies with an LT1 ... he's sunk lots of money into his car, but on some of the wrong parts, IMO:rolleyes:. It's run a best of 14.5 @ 96 mph to date. My mostly "stock" LS1, except for a lid, Flowmaster cat-back, and 4.10 gears, ran a 13.0 @ 107:thumb:.

In terms of "feel", I've driven both, and don't "feel" like my LS1 is lacking much down low, but when I get the opportunity to wind it up, I STILL get joy-gasms out of it!! :D :lol: But that's just me! ;)

FWIW, I think $ for $, modding a 5 liter mustang will net you a faster car than modding any 4th gen fbody. They will start out way behind, but after a little while, they'll catch up.. all the mods are like half as expensive on those cars.. That being said, I still wouldn't choose to own one over my lt1 fbody, because I don't like the way they look or their interiors. I'm in love with my car, I can have the "fast feeling" I was talking about before, and I can sit there and oggle at her all day after I give her a good wash and wax hehe. :D

Edit: But I would take a C5/C6 Vette in a heartbeat!

Edit: But I would take a C5/C6 Vette in a heartbeat!
You'd get over the "lack" of torque for a 'Vette, eh?? ;) Yeah, I'd get over the lack of Camaro for a 'Vette too!! :D :lol:

I REALLY dont think i'd take a vette over my car unless it was a new z06 or a 96GS. I love having a 4 seater, and i think that'd be alot to sacrifice for me.

Need4Camaro ~ Ok so I jumped the gun a little bit ... lol I was just saying.

Either car can be made fast. Once you jump into the engine mods, its anyones game. An LS1 always will have better heads and intake, but it comes at a price $$$. An LT1 can be made fast, but you have to be smart when you mod it.

If your looking for cheap bang for your buck, buy a 5.0. I think you probably could build the fastest/most reliable car if you got one for the cheapest amount of money. This comes at the cost though of being ugly, not "mean" looking, sloppy interior, not really a sporty feel to it either. More like a family car thats significantly faster. You dont sit IN the seats, you sit on them. Like a truck ...

My whole problem is I am trying to decide where to draw the line in the sand, so to speak. Yes, i could take any engine and mod the crap out of it to be fast. I have to think about reliability, price, fuel economy (come on, dont laugh, as its kind of impractical to have a 10mpg daily driver) and not getting spanked by 4cyl neons (those things can be vicious turboed, lol).

But really, it comes down to the F-body. Like was posted earlier, "I" would have a Vette IF the interior was bigger. The camaro has just enough room to feel comfertable, so, now it is down to engines. Both motors, for the most part, would be fine, but, if I have to pick one with all the above options I am looking for, I need to do some stupid questions (you havnt seen all my questions yet) along with some good viable ones to steer me in "my" right direction.

P.S. The Mustang IS a fun car to drive as I had a 92 2.3l . Between me and my girlfriend, we took that car out. She would kill that poor thing from a standstill and I would drive around corners on 2 wheels every where I went. Even with a 2.3l engine, it felt very nimble. If I were to do a mustang, I would sneak a 351w in there and build it up a wee bit, but, I just like the camaro bodys a little better. The mustang kind of reminds me of impalas and such, not as mean looking as our cars...... Wait, how about some blasfamy? What about a windsor in a camaro? it has the dist up front, so......... :eek: :bow: :D

That's not even funny :rolleyes:. Leave now!! :o

;)

This is almost too hard to call, because everyone is different, and your expectations are different. Like we were talking about above, some people would rather "feel" fast, some would rather "be" fast, even if it doesn't feel the same.

In terms of reliability, mileage, things like that??:shrug: I don't have any personal comparisons, but I've always "heard" that LS1's are supposed to get better mileage than LT1's, but I don't know if that's 100% for sure???:confused:

At this point, maybe I'm biased, but I'd lean towards an LS1. I just know that out of the box, they're quick, reliable, faster than almost all cars the same age or older, and even faster than cars NEWER than them too!! :lol: I like the looks of either Camaro (LT1 or LS1) but I much prefer the LS1 Firebirds ... the WS6 is pure sex on 4 wheels!! :yes: :bow: But hey, that's just IMO!! ;)

I like open unbiased (okay in your instance, biased :p ) opinions, thanks.

Well I have had several of BOTH. Ls1 hands down is far superior. And I FEEL and KNOW I am faster in a Ls1. I like both though

But the original question only asked, if it was possible to make an LS1 FEEL as touquey down low as an LT1 and still be as fast...

... Not which you would prefer, massive touque or massive speed... :shrug:

Smaller cam maybe. In theory I would think that would lower your peak torque rpm. Its an awfull idea, but should work.

True LS1s make more torque everywhere. But how can you explain better 60's and better or equal 1/8 mile times from a stock LT1 when compared to a stock LS1?

I'll say that my LT1 car with a few bolt-ons would hurt you if I punched it down low. It takes a well modified LS1 to give the same feeling. However, LS1s would pull past me after about 3rd gear and leave me far behind.

Care to elaborate??? Save a fellow fbody owner the pain and suffering if you are serious?
well, to elaborate more...
I started buying pieces for my 383 LT1 in may of 2004. at the time LS1 prices were still way up there. as I started gathering pieces the cost of building an LS1 slowly dropped. now the price difference is in favor of an LSx.
Ive also just had problems with my LT1. it leaked a ton of oil even though I did all the proper procedures in assembling it.
the car had knock sensor issues and I ultimately had to wire a resistor in line to the ground to eliminate the false knock.
I hate the ignition system of an LT1. I know you can go buy a delteq and fix most of the problems but thats also $600 you can put towards an LS1 that doesnt need to have ignition upgrades.
lloyd did excellent work on my heads but theres only so far you can go. not to mention that even when ported our intakes hold us back a bit. LS1 intakes also hold them back a little but not as bad as ours.
just the overall design of the engines. I just recently tore down an LS2 and its just worlds ahead of an LT1. the only thing I dont like is you gotta take the heads off to get the lifters out.

before I spun my rod bearing I was about to take another step. I was gonna get a set of SBC heads converted to reverse cooling, stick a single plane intake, and have lloyd & co spec a solid roller. honestly with the ridiculous preload on comp R lifters and their notorious failing a solid roller doesnt seem like a bad idea. especially since I had those valve covers off so often to make sure the valve lash was set correctly. by that point I might as well have started with a SBC. then I wouldnt have to worry about the damned optispark and I would have much larger displacement capabilities.

if I could do it again I would do alot different. I wouldve built a rev happy stock crank 355 and used some of the cost from not having to buy a forged crank and putting it towards a single plane intake. the 383 made great torque, but with a high stall converter was it really needed?

dont get me wrong, im not trying to bad mouth the LT1. im just stating some experiances and my hindsights.

if I could TRUELY go back I would go back much further and never purchase this car!! I can think of alot of things I couldve done with the money I have spent...

beautifly put. That is exactly why i got my ls1 car. I figured with my lust for pwer I should get the car with the most potential despite a couple grand difference in price, plus I like the front end and taillights better.

I've never really been impressed with LS1s (even after owning one), and am happy with my LT1. It's got punch down low and at part throttle and that's a big fun factor. If I ever wanted to make it haul ass it's a short $1500 away. A couple bolt-ons and it runs high 12s, and has yet to be beaten by a bolt-on LS1 on the street over here.

I'm happy.

A couple bolt-ons and it runs high 12s, and has yet to be beaten by a bolt-on LS1 on the street over here.
Have you actually raced a bolt-on LS1?

I'm not being an LS1 fanboy here. Seriously. At 12.96, you shouldn't be beating many bolt-on LS1's. :no:

Unless the drivers suck...

My LS1 definately feels faster than my LT1 all the time. :)

BTW, looking at the dyno graphs between the two, the LS1 put out about 310TQ at 3200 RPMs, my LT1 peaked right around there with 285TQ. The LS1 peaked at about 3600 RPMs at 318.8 TQ.

I've never really been impressed with LS1s (even after owning one), and am happy with my LT1. It's got punch down low and at part throttle and that's a big fun factor. If I ever wanted to make it haul ass it's a short $1500 away. A couple bolt-ons and it runs high 12s, and has yet to be beaten by a bolt-on LS1 on the street over here.

I'm happy.

I beat a bolt-on LT1 on a small shot of spray with only a lid and catback. Does that mean I would have every time? Probably not.


For the original question. Gears and converter (if its an A4).
If you like the LT1's power band then get one. Nothing wrong with that.

I beat a bolt-on LT1 on a small shot of spray with only a lid and catback. Does that mean I would have every time? Probably not.


For the original question. Gears and converter (if its an A4).
If you like the LT1's power band then get one. Nothing wrong with that.


Oh i totally agree, there is nothig wrong with either one. I just dont want to lose that fun feeling i have in my LT1 if I went with an LS1. Maybe I should rent an LS1 for a week, lol???

This claim that LT1's make more power at part throttle is ridiculous as far as using it as a reason that an LT1 is "more fun down low" than an LS1.

Give it more gas, for Pete's sake! :rolleyes:

Give it more gas, for Pete's sake! :rolleyes:

Well, thats the thing. My cherokee has plenty of power if I keep giving it gas, but, it sucks to drive cause I have to keep dogging the crap out of it. Now, comparing the LS1 to the LT1, and neither one is a dog, from all the readings it seems that the LS1 would not be as "snappy" as the LT1 for around town driving. Oh, she is definitly fast, but not quite as crisp throttle degree for throttle degree. I have driven a few but not long enough to get comfertable and really see if there is a noticeable differance. Hmm, maybe I will just buy one with an auto since that is what I want. Mmmmm, naaa, gotta do some reasearch. An educated consumer is a................. :p

Yea JakeRobb real rediculous claim :rolleyes:

If you put hogged out heads on a otherwise stock car, you will loose low rpm, part throttle response. It will FEEL slower down low.

This is because the heads cant keep the velocity up on the incoming air charge at low RPM's ...

This is why LT1's FEEL faster than an LS1 if your just driving it around town, part throttle, normal driving. LS1 heads flow way better than an LT1 head does stock for stock. They both are very similar displacement, and at idle and low RPM use, require about the same amount of air in the cylinders. An LT1 head keeps the velocity of the incoming air up a little better because they are MORE RESTRICTIVE. They feel "snappier" in this rpm range. Where as a LS1 feels a little less responsive down low ... Its all in the heads.

Dont believe me? Put a set of fully ported stock casting heads on your otherwise stock car and see what happens to the bottom end TQ.

And you said about giving it more gas ... Thats the whole point. You have to open them up a little more because they are NOT as responsive.

Maybe that makes a little more sense now.

And to the origional poster, you cant go wrong with either car. If I had the money when I was in the market I would have got a LS1. I was broke, in 11th grade, and wanted something fast. So I bought a LT1 totaled and restored it myself. If I had my choice I would have done an LS1 car. But the sentimental value I have in it now is enough to keep my LT1. That and its an awesome car.

And you said about giving it more gas ... Thats the whole point. You have to open them up a little more because they are NOT as responsive.

Maybe that makes a little more sense now.
It made sense, and it's still ridiculous.

You have to give an LS1 what, 5-10% more throttle to get the same response? Unless your right foot has years of training behind an LT1 (which, admittedly, is true for many of you), you'd barely notice.

Personally, I like that the LS1 delivers power smoothly and progressively. If I'm light on the throttle, I want the car to act accordingly. Especially with an M6, where consistent throttle modulation is critical to a good launch at the track and smooth driving around town.

Go ahead, tell me that your nonlinear throttle response is a good thing. :rolleyes:

I never said it was a good thing ... Or that it was a bad thing. Its neither.

But ya cant say that the claim that LT1's make more power at part throttle is ridiculous as far as using it as a reason that an LT1 is "more fun down low" than an LS1 is not true if you havent owned both or at least drove both.

I have driven them both multiple times. An LT1 comes on alot harder down low. Yea it might make it harder to launch. But it sure makes its feel alot stronger also.

Your entitled to your opinion as I am to mine, but there is no argueing that an LT1 FEELS faster. When the LS1 cars first came out I remember EVERYONE talking about how theres no way, they felt to slow down low. Then as more people started to get them, they could see that the top end on these cars is where they really shine.

And FWIW, I dont want my car to act smooth. I want that quick, snappy, muscle car feel. Not the smooth linear easy into the power Caddy feeling.

Well, I've had my LS1 for about a month and honestly my 89 L98 feels like it has more torque....... but it's an Auto and my LS1 is a 6 speed. It's all how you drive it. If I'm cruzing in 2nd going 30 or 40 mph and tap the gas, I deffinitely can tell that my LS1 has just as much torque or more. I agree that an LT1 or even an L98 may feel great down low, but the difference is that the LS1 keeps going and going. This is how it should be though, the L98 on my IROC-Z is rated as having 345 lbs/ft of torque and my LS1 is rated at 350. So it makes sense that they feel just as fast, but the LS1 is far superior. In my opinion the L98 and the LS1 feel just as fast down low, but once you hit 40 mph the LS1 smokes it. I have yet to drive an LT1, this thread makes me want to go test drive one............

Funny you mention the L98 ... I've only driven one (an '87 'Vette) and it was a torque monster!! :eek: From 0 - 30, hang on, baby!! :D :lol: Once it got spun up to ~4000 RPM, set the cruise control, 'cause the ride is over!! :p

Maybe I need to drive that kind of car around again for awhile?:shrug: Maybe I'd like it better?? :rolleyes:

And FWIW, I dont want my car to act smooth. I want that quick, snappy, muscle car feel. Not the smooth linear easy into the power Caddy feeling.I like "quick, snappy, muscle car" too :think:. I've never felt that my LS1 has lacked that, or that the LT1's I've driven have had something I don't?? :shrug: Or maybe I've just gotten very accustomed to where the LS1 power band is in the last ~4 years of driving one, that I just drive it accordingly?? :confused: I've not lost too many races except where the odds were totally stacked against me (like blown Mustangs, a ZR1 Corvette, or other obvious faster cars;)). And I've never felt like my car was "slow" or "unresponsive" ... even when it "only" had 2.73 gears in it!!

I'm a reasonable guy, so I'm going to reserve final judgement until I drive an LT1, but I have a hard time beleiving that an LT1 is going to feel more like a muscle car.

And FWIW, I dont want my car to act smooth. I want that quick, snappy, muscle car feel. Not the smooth linear easy into the power Caddy feeling.
If you're claiming that an LS1 isn't quick or snappy, or that the power comes on like a Cadillac, you're insane.

In an LS1, if you want 50% of the power, you give it 50% of the throttle. Likewise for all other percentages.

By the descriptions I've read here, it sounds like 50% of the LT1 throttle might give you, say, 70% of the power. That is, the low half of the throttle travel is more responsive than the top half.

Is that fairly accurate?

but I much prefer the LS1 Firebirds ... the WS6 is pure sex on 4 wheels!! :yes: :bow: But hey, that's just IMO!! ;)

LOVE the way you put that, SO TRUE! :D

I have both, so I will comment on this as well.

My LT1 is heavily modified, and it feels incredible down low, I can just tap the gas and the thing wants to rear up. Very impressive to by-standers, know what I mean? I can go full throttle at 60 mph, and still get a little spin from the wheels, and it *feels* amazing. But the dyno humbled me. I do admit it mainly feels fast. I am in the 370hp range w/ that LT1, but it felt like so much more!

The LS1 on the other hand is a monster in itself. It loves to fly up high, after about 2000 RPM, it will jump way up there, and feels like it just wants to keep pulling. It's a bolt on car, w/ a cam, and it is so different from the LT1.

My LT1 has so much sentimental value though, I could never let it go.

I'm glad to be blessed enough to have a little of both worlds :)

Lt1 feel much better down low stock for stock. Yes the ls1 is still faster.

My ls1 has a big cam so it dont' pull down low too much lol with the stock gear got to get up north of 3 then it screams hard.

Well, my Lt 1 pulls like a raped ape everywhere in the band, but I guess I am not much for a good point of reference. It is hard to keep the damn thing stuck at all sometimes (which is exactly why I love driving it). But my firend has an LS1 and stock for stock having driven both I would say that part throttle response the LT1 does "seem" a little more TQy, but not sure if that is because of the more restrictive heads, or possibly the flow at low velocity in the intake etc.

As for making an LS1 feel more TQy, gears are probably the way to go. I am sure 3.73 would fix all your complaints.

I'm a reasonable guy, so I'm going to reserve final judgement until I drive an LT1, but I have a hard time beleiving that an LT1 is going to feel more like a muscle car.


If you're claiming that an LS1 isn't quick or snappy, or that the power comes on like a Cadillac, you're insane.

In an LS1, if you want 50% of the power, you give it 50% of the throttle. Likewise for all other percentages.

By the descriptions I've read here, it sounds like 50% of the LT1 throttle might give you, say, 70% of the power. That is, the low half of the throttle travel is more responsive than the top half.

Is that fairly accurate?

Yes, something like that. LT1 = 750-3000 like a banshee, 3000 up not so good. LS1 750-3000 = not so good, 3001 up like a banshee. Both are about equal in power in the end, but the LT1 you feel more when your down low "in the seat of your pants". SO, for racing long distances or long winded sprints, the LT1 cant hang in as long as the LS1, but, for block to block driving, the LT1 is sweeter. Plus, with the higher volocity in the heads down low, the cylinders would fill up quicker and with more air. More air = more fuel = more power, like turbo charging efect which could be why the LT1's seem peppier. With that theory, they would be.

Looks like I will be getting a LS1 with a stick this weekend, so, I guess we will soon see.

Yes, something like that. LT1 = 750-3000 like a banshee, 3000 up not so good. LS1 750-3000 = not so good, 3001 up like a banshee.

I completely disagree. LS1 750-3000 = good, 3001-4000 = great, 4001-6000= holy F*&^% Sh**

:D

I have no problems down low, mid range or up high. I have no complaints on part throttle or aggressive throttle. And I DEFINATELY have no complaints about WOT :bow:

really, hmmmmm.... and the LT1 is the same but in reverse, so...........

really, hmmmmm.... and the LT1 is the same but in reverse, so...........

So the LT1 has a strong reverse :eek:

This thread makes my eyes bleed.

:no:

Both are about equal in power in the end

If that were the case the LT1 would run a low 13 sec stock. It took a friend's 93 Firehawk full bolt ons to get where my SS was stock.
Very little of a race is spent under 3K RPM.

The LS1 has more torque than LT1 people like to think, and yes I've driven and raced both. 750 is idle. Cruising RPM is at least 1200 RPM so anything less is invalid since you're talking "driving fun". Actually, if you're going to accelerate much you should down shift which would be at least 1800 RPM. 1800-3000 RPM is a pretty limited power band. Give me 3000-6000 over that any day. Well, 6800+ for us cammed people. Its pretty easy to down shift and give it part throttle and have all the peppiness you want and more than your rear tires will handle.

Get your LS1 or LT1. Doesn't matter which.

Yeah don't get me twisted, the LS1 is the superior engine for sure. There really is no question about that. 13 degree heads make all the diffeence, as well as all alumin blocks for weight. As I said above, the part throttle response is probably do to the more restrictive heads of the LT1 (which is why a lot of pro drag run smaller intake runner heads at high altitude). But yeah if you have the cash an LS1 is the way to go. BUT you can make good power with any engine if you throw enough $$$ at it, just ask me lol.

I have an '89 Iroc and a 2000 SS. You really can't drive the two cars the same way and get the same feeling of low end torque. If you want the LS1 to feel like the L98, you have to hold each gear longer and let the RPM's climb. Simply put, to get the feeling of the low end torque you get in an L98, keep the RPM's in the LS1 above 2750 and it will feel similar.

If that were the case the LT1 would run a low 13 sec stock. It took a friend's 93 Firehawk full bolt ons to get where my SS was stock.
Very little of a race is spent under 3K RPM.

The LS1 has more torque than LT1 people like to think, and yes I've driven and raced both. 750 is idle. Cruising RPM is at least 1200 RPM so anything less is invalid since you're talking "driving fun". Actually, if you're going to accelerate much you should down shift which would be at least 1800 RPM. 1800-3000 RPM is a pretty limited power band. Give me 3000-6000 over that any day. Well, 6800+ for us cammed people. Its pretty easy to down shift and give it part throttle and have all the peppiness you want and more than your rear tires will handle.

Get your LS1 or LT1. Doesn't matter which.

Yea, I was smoking crack when I said that and it was late at night, not exactly what I ment. I was talking about the rpm range I drive in 750-4500/5000

Well, I have two now! I have a 94 lt1 6-speed and a 98 LS1-6 speed. As soon as I get the LS1 out of the intensive care ward and get her on the street, I can post back my findings. As of the initial test drive, putzing around was right about what I said, seemed to want to dog more just comming off a stoplight, but, that could do with a bazillion things seeing as the *check engine* light does not come on when the key is turned, but, she fires right up!? Could be she has stupid geraing like 2.73's or something.

Could be she has stupid geraing like 2.73's or something.

All M6 LS1's came with 3.42 gears. Only A4's had 2.73's unless they had the GU5 performance upgrade in which case they came with 3.23's.

All M6 LS1's came with 3.42 gears. Only A4's had 2.73's unless they had the GU5 performance upgrade in which case they came with 3.23's.

Or someone broke the rear and just threw whatever they could in there to get rid of the car.

I am starting to think of that because there was a lot of play in the driveshaft, way more than one would think.

Has it occured to anyone that 30% throttle at the pedal on an LT1 and LS1 could mean completely different things at the other end of that pedal? I mean, they use completely different throttle bodies. The LT1 uses a 2-bladed TB, and the LS1 uses a single-blade TB. I have no idea what each flows at various throttle openings, but I would imagine there are differences and I would imagine those differences are what many of you are "feeling". I bet if you put the same TB on both engines they would feel VERY similar below 3K.

Anyways, I highly doubt an LS-1 is any "less torquey" down low, and even if it is, it's not like it's down 50 lb-ft at 2,000 RPM.

Has it occured to anyone that 30% throttle at the pedal on an LT1 and LS1 could mean completely different things at the other end of that pedal? I mean, they use completely different throttle bodies. The LT1 uses a 2-bladed TB, and the LS1 uses a single-blade TB. I have no idea what each flows at various throttle openings, but I would imagine there are differences and I would imagine those differences are what many of you are "feeling". I bet if you put the same TB on both engines they would feel VERY similar below 3K.

Anyways, I highly doubt an LS-1 is any "less torquey" down low, and even if it is, it's not like it's down 50 lb-ft at 2,000 RPM.

I don't know about any of that but something has occured to me. Its occured to me that I don't race in part throttle :eek: It has also occured to me that when I'm driving in Rochester traffic, I could care less how much torque I have or don't have going from 0-35 MPH with cars all around me :D

If I feel the need to have a lot of torque when driving on the street then all I need to do is flash my converter. 2.5 STR BABY :bow:

I don't know about any of that but something has occured to me. Its occured to me that I don't race in part throttle :eek: It has also occured to me that when I'm driving in Rochester traffic, I could care less how much torque I have or don't have going from 0-35 MPH with cars all around me :D

If I feel the need to have a lot of torque when driving on the street then all I need to do is flash my converter. 2.5 STR BABY :bow:


Right on! I feel the exact same way! Reading this thread would make one think we were comparing an SBC to a Honda S2000 engine. In the real world, LT1 vs. LS1 bottom-end torque doesn't really matter all that much, and you're right...how long does an engine spend below 3K in a race anyways? Maybe 2 seconds at the most, and in your case, probably not at all. If I am doing any "fun" driving at all, when I would be worried about the amount of torque my engine is producing, I don't have it in 4th gear at 1500 RPM. More like 2nd gear at 4K. You get the idea.

Ehh, I spend MOST of my time driving under 2500 RPMs, so for me, that "feel" or being fast is what makes it fun to DRIVE. To race, Yea I would rather have an LS1. ****, even to drive I would. But the point i was making was that to drive an LT1, it is a funner TQ-ier car.

BTW, looking at the dyno graphs between the two, the LS1 put out about 310TQ at 3200 RPMs, my LT1 peaked right around there with 285TQ. The LS1 peaked at about 3600 RPMs at 318.8 TQ.


take a look at the dyno graph of my hooker catback/slp intake m6 lt1 in my sig it peaked at 314.4 ft/lbs at about 2400 rpm and remained over 300 from 2000-4500 rpm that is one hell of a tq curve if you ask me peak power peaked at about 5100 rpm but only dropped off a couple horse to 5700 rpm not bad if you ask me

Well, just like stereo systems, some people do not hear my-nute differances, and thats okay. Some just hear loud and all is good........

Thats the best I have seen anyone describe it ... ever.

I have a LT1 so I will build it. I love the way my car feels to drive.

Thats not to say I wouldnt learn to love the way an LS1 feels to drive. You have to drive them both to understand the difference. But really, its not like an LS1 feels like its deprived of low end power by any means. It makes nice TQ. You wont be disapointed with one. They dont have an opti. And the aftermarket is getting bigger every day still. Their starting to get cheaper to come across parts for.

If I was to do a new project car I wuold go with an LS1. I only jumped on mine cause it was cheap, totaled, and had 9K origional miles on it. It sat in a garage since 96.

sweet!! Well, as soon as I get my basket case (LS1) running, I can play around with it and see whats up. I will surely drop by after getting fully acustomed to it with unbiased feedback.

i didmt read all 5 pages so if this has been posted oh well read it again lol

the LT1 makes peak torque at 2,400rpm the LS1 at 4,600 or so (i think its a little higher)..both cars having an A4 and the converters both having a stall around 1,400rpms, the LT1 does produce more torque thus feeling and being faster out of the hole..

the Lt1 intake runners are something like 3 inches..which makes low speed velocity through the roof...midrange power suffers a little bit and it levels off upstairs..they actually make decent upper end power,but then the heads become the restriction..

the LS1 intake is like 17inches...low end power isnt as strong, midrange and upper end power is well yall know..

Well this topic is as played out as ever.....but if you dont have a ton of money buy the lt1 if you have the cash on hand buy the ls1 both are great motors capable of speeds you wont even want on the street......so its not like you cant make the car fast one just has advanteges over the other outta the box but that can all be corrected with cash so i say buy what you want and can afford you can get the same results outta either car it just depends on the green

The lt1 stock for stock will feel "better" since the TQ peaks at 2400..! thats so low.

It's just feels different. So its what ever you want and can afford.

Can you make an LS1 as fun down low as the LT1's?
Absolutely not.

Absolutely not.

*reads Mods list*

But arn't you just a teeny tiny bit biased? :think:

I agree, but here is how I see it.

LS1 Pro's
1) Fast outta the box
2) very much dependable (unlike the opti crap stuff on the LT1
3) Has the interior I am used to and like so much more over the 96 and down interiors

LS1 Con's
1) Power is up top where i do not use it on the street much
2) does not have the front nose I like (a biggie for me)
3) Thats all




LT1 Pro's
1) Lots of low end 0-posted speed limit fun (very important for me)
2) see above
3) has the front end/nose I like

LT1 Con's
1) much less power than the LS1
2) optipasark

I was thinking that if I could get a LS1 and give her a shot in the low end power while keeping my top end and having dependability, that would be the ticket, hense the title of this thread.

So, it was said that LT1's have a 3" runner? Where can I find a 3" runer manifold for the LS1, lol?

the Lt1 intake runners are something like 3 inches..which makes low speed velocity through the roof...midrange power suffers a little bit and it levels off upstairs..they actually make decent upper end power,but then the heads become the restriction..

the LS1 intake is like 17inches...low end power isnt as strong, midrange and upper end power is well yall know..

Ummmmm, you got that backwards there. Shorter = top end. Take a look at the long runners on the L98....tons of low-end. Think about what the OEM's do with the dual-runner intake. Long runners for low-end, and a switch to short runners(or a "bypass") as RPM increases. Long runners build velocity and low-speed torque, while short runners allow better cylinder filling at high RPM. I'm actually surprised the LT-1 does as well as it does in spite of its short runners.

Oh, hmmm, well, I was just useing what someone posted here, whoops :)

This thread makes my eyes bleed.

:no:

been thinking about this thread all day, man thats gotta burn ha ha ha ha ha!!

Ummmmm, you got that backwards there. Shorter = top end. Take a look at the long runners on the L98....tons of low-end. Think about what the OEM's do with the dual-runner intake. Long runners for low-end, and a switch to short runners(or a "bypass") as RPM increases. Long runners build velocity and low-speed torque, while short runners allow better cylinder filling at high RPM. I'm actually surprised the LT-1 does as well as it does in spite of its short runners.


Serious question about that. Where do the LS1 intake runners place? THey're long. But how do they compare to the Long runner velocity and top end power?

Looking at my dyno sheet, at the start of the pull, 2400 rpm I have 315 ftlbs RWTQ. It peaks at 4000 rpm (346.5) and maintains that till about 5100, then it starts to drop off.

Serious question about that. Where do the LS1 intake runners place? THey're long. But how do they compare to the Long runner velocity and top end power?

Looking at my dyno sheet, at the start of the pull, 2400 rpm I have 315 ftlbs RWTQ. It peaks at 4000 rpm (346.5) and maintains that till about 5100, then it starts to drop off.


I'm not sure how long they are exactly, but I bet one of the guys who hang out in Advanced tech would know. I highly doubt they are ridiculously long, and I have no doubt they were engineered to work in a very broad RPM range. Though they are long, they seem to still flow well at higher RPM, which is where the heads really shine compared to the LT1. I'm actually quite surprised the LT1 has such short runners on it, but it seems to work well. Still, 315 lf-ft at 2400 RPM is nothing to sneeze at, and I still hold firm in my belief that both LT1 and LS1 engines produce very similar low-RPM torque while the LS1 walks away on the top-end.

These are all approx. numbers because I can't remember the exact numbers. The L98 runners are 21-24 inches, LT1 is 3 inches, LS1 is 15-17 inches.

The L98 has a high peak torque in a narrow rpm band because the intake and camshaft are designed to take advantage of resonant tuning or something like that. It happens when the first intake pulse bounces off the back of the intake valve and reverses in the intake stream. The second pulse then comes through and joins the first pulse to travel back through the intake into the combustion chamber at a very high velocity. It is like a supercharging effect because of the inertia of the second pulse joining the first one.

The LS1 doesn't take advantage of any inertial phenomenon but has a medium length runner that is long enough to create good velocity for a broad torque curve, yet not too long that it can't breathe up high.

*reads Mods list*

But arn't you just a teeny tiny bit biased? :think:
:lol:

:yes: I think he is. ;)

:lol:

:yes: I think he is. ;)
I'm not biased at all. ;)

I'm not biased at all. ;)

Atleast you have a good sense of humor... :)