So will there be a 500hp engine option?

We know Lutz said one is available if necessary.
But, do you guys actually think GM will make one available in the
new camaro whether it be n/a, s/c or whatever?

I'm sure details will be coming out, but we will see about 300 threads until that happens. With the new Z06, or SS, or Stingray, or whatever it may open up HP levels for the Camaro. We'd be crazy to think the GM and Dodge are sleeping knowing the Shelby is already here and Ford isn't resting on its larels looking at '08 and '09 for the Mustang's competition.

Yea, i agree, the 500hp is definately coming in some way, shape, fashion or form. Only real thing to discuss is whether it will be supercharged or NA and how much it will cost.

chevrolet really doesn't have strong factory supercharger support nowadays. I can think of two cars in the past 10 years that have had one, and there hp ratings combined werent even 500hp.

My money is on a naturally aspirated V8, but i'm often wrong

Yea, i agree, the 500hp is definately coming in some way, shape, fashion or form. Only real thing to discuss is whether it will be supercharged or NA and how much it will cost.

chevrolet really doesn't have strong factory supercharger support nowadays. I can think of two cars in the past 10 years that have had one, and there hp ratings combined werent even 500hp.

My money is on a naturally aspirated V8, but i'm often wrong
Currently in production:
Supercharged 4.4 N*
3800 SC
2.0 SC Ecotec

Upcoming Escalade 6.2 SC, modified from the one in the super Vette!

On the Turbo end there are lots of GMs to choose from but not to many SC motors, yet.

Yes

Z28. ;)

You have to look at things from a business perspective. GM always reuses parts (ie, engines) across the line. LS1 went from Corvette to fbody. I don't see a supercharged V8 in use at the moment...plus that SC adds costs onto the base car.

So...the LS2 went from vette to GTO, SSR, CTS-V, etc.

So...unless there is a LS3 already available before the Camaro comes out...my money is the LS2 as it will still be in production in great numbers. It all boils down to re-using parts to keep costs down.

Now...the LS7 will be in production for the Z06 and the CTS-V and maybe a few other vehicles. If it's still being used in 2009 I'd say there's a good chance it could make it into the new Camaro if another company is still producing a 500 HP car.

What's interesting to note is that for some reason the GT500 is a low 12's mid teens car. If the Camaro keeps it's weight at around 3500# and the LS2 or equivalent is bumped up to 425-450 HP....that should be enough to keep up with the GT500.

I think the z28 or SS will run high 12's low teens stock and match the GT500 with very little mods.

We shall see....we have another year or two until GM releases all the details...but let the speculation begin.

i hope so, the more HP the better.

Currently in production:
Supercharged 4.4 N*
3800 SC
2.0 SC Ecotec

Upcoming Escalade 6.2 SC, modified from the one in the super Vette!

On the Turbo end there are lots of GMs to choose from but not to many SC motors, yet.

Question, i thought the 3800 series engines have been all but killed off? I thought they only put the supercharged 3.8 into the previous Monte carlo SS model. So what are they being currently produced in?

You have to look at things from a business perspective. GM always reuses parts (ie, engines) across the line. LS1 went from Corvette to fbody. I don't see a supercharged V8 in use at the moment...plus that SC adds costs onto the base car.

How about a historical perspective?

Today's LSx based motors all harken back to the venerable Chevy small-block V8. (GM even markets them as such.) And what is perhaps the most popular displacement of small-block of all time? That's right, the 350 cid. A little known fact (to all but diehard Chevy fans) is the first time a 350 cid small-block was ever used in a production Chevrolet was in the 1967 Camaro SS. In fact, in 1967 you could only get the 350 in a Camaro SS. Wouldn't it be cool to resurrect that with the new 2009 Camaro? What I'm suggesting is a modern LSx derivative V8 that is not available on any other GM model in 2009. No, I am not suggesting 350 cid (5.7L), I'm suggesting a unique powerplant to Camaro be it 6.2L, 6.4L, or whatever.

Secondly, I disagree about superchargers. While superchargers appear pricey on the surface, they are a cheap way to add horsepower when you have maximized all the juice you can get out of the same motor that is naturally aspirated. Adding 150-200hp via a supercharger to an already 400hp NA motor takes far less money to develop than trying to design a 550-600hp NA motor from scratch. Besides, if the supercharger is only used on the upscale V8 model, how can it possibly add costs to the base car?

Question, i thought the 3800 series engines have been all but killed off? I thought they only put the supercharged 3.8 into the previous Monte carlo SS model. So what are they being currently produced in?

i dont think they use the sc 3800 anymore but i could be wrong. they did use them as an option on almost every buick and big pontiac for years. also, the impala and monte got the option for a few years. for pontiac, they had the grand prix, boniville, buick had the park ave ultra and so forth, so the 3800 had big time support on eaton's side.

me i would prefer a turbo v8, but most likely we will get a sc v8 with a new gen eaton style on it. either way, id take both, and will order one when the it is available.

The 500hp option will come out on something special (SS), or along those lines, so you will pay through the nose.

The 500hp option will come out on something special (SS), or along those lines, so you will pay through the nose.

yes i will.

indeed, thats why i am putting money back right now. by the time the car comes out i should have between $14,000 and $18,000 as a down payment:D

Question, i thought the 3800 series engines have been all but killed off? I thought they only put the supercharged 3.8 into the previous Monte carlo SS model. So what are they being currently produced in?
Grand Prix GT uses the L67 still.

You have to look at things from a business perspective. GM always reuses parts (ie, engines) across the line. LS1 went from Corvette to fbody. I don't see a supercharged V8 in use at the moment...plus that SC adds costs onto the base car.

So...the LS2 went from vette to GTO, SSR, CTS-V, etc.

So...unless there is a LS3 already available before the Camaro comes out...my money is the LS2 as it will still be in production in great numbers. It all boils down to re-using parts to keep costs down.

Now...the LS7 will be in production for the Z06 and the CTS-V and maybe a few other vehicles. If it's still being used in 2009 I'd say there's a good chance it could make it into the new Camaro if another company is still producing a 500 HP car.

What's interesting to note is that for some reason the GT500 is a low 12's mid teens car. If the Camaro keeps it's weight at around 3500# and the LS2 or equivalent is bumped up to 425-450 HP....that should be enough to keep up with the GT500.

I think the z28 or SS will run high 12's low teens stock and match the GT500 with very little mods.

We shall see....we have another year or two until GM releases all the details...but let the speculation begin.

Forget about the LS7. It's hand built and too expensive to put in an affordable performance car slated for 100,000 plus units. Even if only a select few are scheduled to be the top model. The LS2 and the LS7 most likely won't be around by the time the Camaro comes out. We are most likely going to see a naturally aspirated 6.2 L and a supercharged 6.2 L. But only time will tell.

I'll be happy with 400hp, if GM can keep the Camaro's weight around 3450lbs.

I personally don't think I can handle a 500hp car. :) I'll take a driving lesson first, 'cos I'll probably be spinning out of control a lot...

I'll be happy with 400hp, if GM can keep the Camaro's weight around 3450lbs.

I personally don't think I can handle a 500hp car. :) I'll take a driving lesson first, 'cos I'll probably be spinning out of control a lot...
you would learn quickly:devil:

you would learn quickly:devil:

How about if you've never owned a car with over 200hp? LOL

None of my previous vehicles were over 200 obviously and that one was my '02 V6 Camaro...

So I'll quickly learn to compensate for 400+hp if that's what the midlevel has?

This was something I really was curious about to be honest.

Only car with over 200 I've ever driven was a V8 '06 Dakota w/230hp and an '06 Nissan Frontier w/265... But they were just test drives.

Heh, I bet I'm the only person on this site who's an HP Virgin. LOL

How about if you've never owned a car with over 200hp? LOL

None of my previous vehicles were over 200 obviously and that one was my '02 V6 Camaro...

So I'll quickly learn to compensate for 400+hp if that's what the midlevel has?

This was something I really was curious about to be honest.

Only car with over 200 I've ever driven was a V8 '06 Dakota w/230hp and an '06 Nissan Frontier w/265... But they were just test drives.

Heh, I bet I'm the only person on this site who's an HP Virgin. LOL

Yea i'm kind of in the same boat. My first car was a V8, my second was a V6, and my third was a 4 cylinder. And each time i got a new car, it was significantly faster than the previous! Today's technology is getting sick performance numbers out of relatively low displacement/horsepower numbers.

An example being a 20 thousand dollar neon thrashing a 30+ thousand dollar dodge charger R/T w/ 340hp!

Nowadays it seems to be more about the timeslip than the dyno chart.

Nowadays it seems to be more about the timeslip than the dyno chart.

Not for me. I want pure torque! Time means nothing ... I'm in no hurry;)

Torque = Smiles

hey this is a dumb qestion but why does every one say the ls7 and ls2 wont be out by the time the camaro comes out its only 3 years. but i mean the 5.8 was around a long long time but the 6.0 just came out

hey this is a dumb qestion but why does every one say the ls7 and ls2 wont be out by the time the camaro comes out its only 3 years. but i mean the 5.8 was around a long long time but the 6.0 just came out
GM hasn't made a 5.8 V8, you meant 5.7. But anyways the 6.2 truck engine is out now and we have been hearing that the vette is getting a larger V8 that isn't the 7.0. Combine that with the fact that the LS7 is very expensive to build and we have also seen dyno charts and pics of supercharged LSx V8s from within GM and you can see how we draw the conclusions we have about the next Camaro's engine lineup.

sorry i meant 5.7 i must have hit 8 instead. i thought i read some where though that the lsX might possibly be dead because of a new engine coming out. and i didn’t mean to say they weren’t going to i just wanted to understand where u guys were coming up with these conclusions i guess i can see them now. but hasn’t the corvette always had the new engine a few years prior to the camaro? if so wouldn’t that mean that if chevy followed in prior tradition that the corvette would have to have a 6.2 next year.

sorry i meant 5.7 i must have hit 8 instead. i thought i read some where though that the lsX might possibly be dead because of a new engine coming out. and i didn’t mean to say they weren’t going to i just wanted to understand where u guys were coming up with these conclusions i guess i can see them now. but hasn’t the corvette always had the new engine a few years prior to the camaro? if so wouldn’t that mean that if chevy followed in prior tradition that the corvette would have to have a 6.2 next year.
The C5 got the LS1 for the 97 model year and the 4th gens got it in 98. The 3rd gen Camaro got the 305 TPI 1 year after the Vette got the 350 TPI, it took 3 years for the Camaro to get the 350 TPI.

It used to be that whatever new engine the Corvette got, the F-body would get the following year. But Corvette, GTO, and CTS-V all got the 6.0 in '05. So I don't think that applies anymore. I believe that whatever the base engine for the Corvette is in '08 is what you will see as the midlevel engine for the Camaro. Whether the car comes out in last quarter of '08 or the first quarter of '09.

I agree with many of you about the engine being something bigger, more special, than a 350. I think Chevy might offer a 350 in addition to a 383 or 427. I'm going for the biggest. They are always more uncommon and worth more 25 years down the road. This is going to be one bad car and I think in two and a half years Chevy is going to have to offer two engine options over 500 or 550. Maybe even a supercharger because people love those. Have you ever spoke with a Mustang guy with a supercharged car. Thats their favorite thing to say. I'd rather have cubic inches. But I think there is a market and a profit for Chevy in offering one. Plus you can fine tune Horsepower to a specific rating with a sc. I can't wait to get one.

Forget about the LS7. It's hand built and too expensive to put in an affordable performance car slated for 100,000 plus units. Even if only a select few are scheduled to be the top model. The LS2 and the LS7 most likely won't be around by the time the Camaro comes out. We are most likely going to see a naturally aspirated 6.2 L and a supercharged 6.2 L. But only time will tell.

I think you're probably close.

It used to be that whatever new engine the Corvette got, the F-body would get the following year. But Corvette, GTO, and CTS-V all got the 6.0 in '05. So I don't think that applies anymore. I believe that whatever the base engine for the Corvette is in '08 is what you will see as the midlevel engine for the Camaro. Whether the car comes out in last quarter of '08 or the first quarter of '09.

that makes total sense to me.........

now the only question is, what will that engine be?

intresting thanks for the info firehawk

Corvette LS7 @ 505 hp why shouldn't Camaro get 500?

Corvette LS7 @ 505 hp why shouldn't Camaro get 500?

First off thanks for the "props" guys (and gals?). As for a 500 hp Camaro I don't think that is out of the question. With rumors of a 500 hp and a 650+hp Corvette in the works, the Camaro wouldn't be stepping on any toes with that kind of power. 1987IROC350 has a valid point with the fine tuning of a supercharged engine. Its a lot easier to mass produce one engine setup and then tune the hp offerings with nothing more than the Mustang favorite: "pulley and a tune".
There have been rumors of GM not even offering N/A V-8's in their performance cars. There is talk of a low boost non-intercooled 6.2, a low boost intercooled 6.2, and a high boost intercooled 6.2. This would make sense cost-wise due to the fact that only have one engine to produce. Everything else would be accessories to add (or delete) for the desired hp rating. Very cost effective in my books, however these are only rumors.

There have been rumors of GM not even offering N/A V-8's in their performance cars. There is talk of a low boost non-intercooled 6.2, a low boost intercooled 6.2, and a high boost intercooled 6.2. This would make sense cost-wise due to the fact that only have one engine to produce. Everything else would be accessories to add (or delete) for the desired hp rating. Very cost effective in my books, however these are only rumors.

I'm guessing with each engine/supercharger level increase, they'd still have to build up the 6.2 for higher horsepower numbers. If all the 6.2's were the same, i definetly would buy a low boost intercooled version and do the pulley + tune aftermarket.
Sounds like an interesting proposition though. Hopefully turns out to be more then just a rumor.

Considering that we've been told that the new Camaro will have more horsepower than the Mustang.. and we have a 500 hp Mustang out there... I think this one is pretty much a given.

Not for me. I want pure torque! Time means nothing ... I'm in no hurry;)

Torque = Smiles
Yes, more smiles for every mile! :D Low RPM Torque is where it's at, yes it is!:) :cool:

Why is GM going to the dark side with FI. :no:
because it is cheaper to manufacture big HP engines. an equal NA motor would cost loads more $$$$. sure na motors are fun and responsive, but twinsrew sc they produce now keep that responsiveness.

Too bad Scott never speaks up much in these threads re: engine options!! :D

An LS7 (or a lower tech, mass produced, non hand-built, wet sump derivative thereof) is on my wish list for the 5th-gen :). I'm sorry, but THAT is one thing that's been sadly missed since the "good 'ol days" of the 1st / early 2nd-gens ..... BIG BLOCK NUMBERS!!! :bow:

Camaro NEEDS a 427 c.i. engine! :yes: What's the old saying?;)
There's no replacement for displacement.

I say BRING IT!!! :thumb: By then there should be a higher HP engine available for the 'Vette, and they still retain the power-to-weight ratio anyways, so Camaro won't be stepping on the 'Vette's toes :cool:.

Scott ... any comments on THAT?????? ;)

That was true back in the days of inefficient power adders. But with modern technology a power adder can give you more power, better gas mileage, and be just as reliable than a bigger displacement N/A motor. The 03/04 Cobra is a prime example of that. There are countless 500+ rwhp daily driver Cobra's out there that still get mid to high twenties to the gallon and don't overheat. Actually I know of several 600+ rwhp cars that also get great gas mileage and have excellent street manners but they all have aftermarket blowers or turbos on them. With motors like the 427 you can build them to make that kind of power to the wheels but you sacrifice the driveability and gas mileage as well as add significant cost. Don't get me wrong, I love big displacement motors but I think that they are becoming "old technology".

As the former owner of a 355 RWHP N/A 99 Cobra and a 550 RWHP 2004 Cobra (both daily drivers - the 99 more drag oriented), I'd take the big-inch, lightweight, all-aluminum small block over a small-inch blown motor any day of the week.

Personnal preference, of course.

You ran some pretty amazing numbers with that 99 Bob. However I would gamble that your 04 has better manners on the street, gets better gas mileage, runs quicker (ported, pullied Eaton?), and cost less to get to the current power level. I don't want to sound like I am knocking N/A motors but in today's gas starved world I think that an FI motor is the better choice.
One more thing, since when did 6.2L become small? lol.

Sorry I have another question for those who love the big cubed N/A motors. What is it about these motors that makes you choose them over an FI motor? What is it that they do that an FI motor can't?
Again I am not bashing these motors or the guys that love them. I am just looking for some insight into these people. What draws them to those particular engines.

Hi firehawk,

Both cars had awesome street manners. The 99 had stock cams, unported heads, and was a VERY efficient powerplant. It had to be, given that I was racing it in a very restrictive class. That also meant it got very, very good gas mileage - up to 28 mpg. The 04 never came close to that in mileage, though its street manners were essentially stock....until you mashed the gas. LOL. It had a 17 PSI KB and associated hardware, btw.

Now cost of mods is a whole nuther ball of wax. It took several thousand dollars to squeeze a few dozen RWHP out of the 99 (though again, a restrictive racing class actually makes it more expensive). For quite a bit less money, the 04 gained upwards of 200 HP. And make no mistake, from anything about a 30-40 mph roll, the 04 would have made the 99 look like it was standing still.

None-the-less, I'd take the 99, simply because I enjoyed it more, and I guess because I was pretty sentimental about it, given that I had such great success with it.

Appreciate the kind words.
Bob

PS...N/A for F/I....I guess I like the simplicity, and don't really care to do what "every other Mustang owner does"....visa vie...through a blower on the damn thing. ;)

That was true back in the days of inefficient power adders. But with modern technology a power adder can give you more power, better gas mileage, and be just as reliable than a bigger displacement N/A motor. The 03/04 Cobra is a prime example of that. There are countless 500+ rwhp daily driver Cobra's out there that still get mid to high twenties to the gallon and don't overheat. Actually I know of several 600+ rwhp cars that also get great gas mileage and have excellent street manners but they all have aftermarket blowers or turbos on them. With motors like the 427 you can build them to make that kind of power to the wheels but you sacrifice the driveability and gas mileage as well as add significant cost. Don't get me wrong, I love big displacement motors but I think that they are becoming "old technology".03/04 Cobra's don't even get mid twenty mpg stock from the factory, hence the gas guzzler tax. Add another 100+ hp and I'm pretty sure there is no way in hell your gonna get mid to high 20's in a blown cobra.

03/04 Cobra's don't even get mid twenty mpg stock from the factory, hence the gas guzzler tax. Add another 100+ hp and I'm pretty sure there is no way in hell your gonna get mid to high 20's in a blown cobra.


It is not un common for a 03 Cobra to get 8-10 MPG around the city...with liberal ammounts of pedel enduced pleasure. On the highway the best I have ever seen was 25...that was in 6th running 65 mph.

The new Shelby's get 15-22 for gas mileage...not real great if you ask me.

And on the flip side.....

.....the '06 Z06 w/505HP 7.0L gets exceptional gas mileage, and BEATS the gas guzzler tax!! :yes:

And THEN if you slap a blower on a big cube motor, the little cube motor is gonna be crying for its mama!!!:lol:

THAT should answer your question, 95Firehawk ;).

Something to consider, from Mopar-rumor-land:

There's a very good chance that Challenger will be launched with a 500+ hp engine option. The motor in question (which is a NA V8 Hemi bigger than 400ci) has been largely developed; the internal debate is apparently over whether to make it available at launch or hold it in reserve to meet competition.

I'll be really surprised if Camaro doesn't have a comparable option at or soon after launch.

You know, I'm reading all of the different posts about Chevy/GM missing the boat or whatever about getting this car out. Well, what if they are sitting back, watching the blue oval and DCX boys put their cars out there and thinking, "we are gonna blow their doors off when this thing hits the streets." At least that's what I'm hoping for.......

03/04 Cobra's don't even get mid twenty mpg stock from the factory, hence the gas guzzler tax. Add another 100+ hp and I'm pretty sure there is no way in hell your gonna get mid to high 20's in a blown cobra.
FYI...the 03 Cobra had a gas guzzler tax (17/22), the 04 did not (17/24). There were no changes in the car that would give it 10% better fuel mileage.

Bob

FYI...the 03 Cobra had a gas guzzler tax (17/22), the 04 did not (17/24). There were no changes in the car that would give it 10% better fuel mileage.

Bob
Not even some sort of computer tweaks? I guess they may have just learned how to beat the test more easily.

There was undoubtably a few "tweaks" between model years, but no way that could make a difference of 10%. I'm betting your second sentence is much more accurate.

Bob

...what if they are sitting back, watching the blue oval and DCX boys put their cars out there and thinking, "we are gonna blow their doors off when this thing hits the streets."
I wouldn't put it past them :thumb: :yes:.

I also held the same kind of "hope" about the release date (I was hoping for an '07 release ... "40th Anniversary" :rolleyes: ) but since they've announced production to be in Oshawa, I don't think there's going to be much change on the '08/'09 production.

But in terms of the power situation? ;) ..... I think between the lighter car and GM's engine line-up, the Mustang and Challenger could be in for a real treat!! :D :bow:

I wouldn't put it past them :thumb: :yes:.

I also held the same kind of "hope" about the release date (I was hoping for an '07 release ... "40th Anniversary" :rolleyes: ) but since they've announced production to be in Oshawa, I don't think there's going to be much change on the '08/'09 production.

But in terms of the power situation? ;) ..... I think between the lighter car and GM's engine line-up, the Mustang and Challenger could be in for a real treat!! :D :bow:
I'm with you, was also hoping for an 07 40th. As well as there NEEDS to be a 427 Camaro. :bow: Just has a nice ring to it, 427 Camaro!:p It really depends on how you look at it though. What I mean is there could still be a 40th anniv. ed. Camaro, if you consider that the 5th gen was based on the 69 MY, 09 MY would be the 40th anniversary of Camaro. OK maybe it's a stretch, but still doable IMHO. I'm just really glad it's been approved. I knew it would be back.

Bob,

355 rwhp out of stock heads and cams is just plain sick! Nice work.

Thanks - I had a good engine builder. :) The heads weren't totally stock. They were 03 4V heads and were unported, but had a good valve job. The shortblock was pretty good too.

Bob

Without quoting the entire rulebook what was allowed to the engines? Also what was the minimum racewight allowed?
Just between you and me all of my friends are Mustang owners and I like Mustangs almost as much as the F-body:devil:. I am kind like the b*st*rd child of the bunch. So I have as much interest in seeing something like your '99 as much as I like seeing a bolt-on LT1 run low 12' to high 11's.:D