http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...NESS/608010403

 

No FREAKIN' WAY! GM don't sell something that gives you a HUGE leg up on the competition!

 

We had a meeting to talk about this yesterday (because rumors were starting to float that we might be for sale, etc.). Basically we don't know anything more than is in that article.

I think the price tag would probably be pretty high, since Allison sends GM a BIG check every year and is really the only part of Powertrain that is a profit generator; the rest is essentially a supplier to the vehicle side. Most everyday people know the Allison name from the pickups, but Allison really makes its money selling big *** transmissions for semis, dump trucks, delivery trucks, city busses, even tanks.

We'll see, I guess.

As an aside, don't you just love it when newspaper articles get canned quotes from the automotive "analysts" and "experts" at the market research and "consulting" companies, like the Center for Automotive Research? The Detroit Free Press is notorious for using them. They are often the source for such pearls as "the domestics need to make more relevant products" or "the domestics are just not on par with the Japanese in terms of vehicle appeal"... which get printed in the press, so the next analyst sees it and uses it, and so do more newspaper writers, and so on...

:blah:

But anyway, back on topic, it will be interesting to see how this plays out in the coming months.

 

This will hurt the Duramax as well. One of the things that make this engine work so well is the Allison tranny. Even Dmax will admit that.

 

Not enough details in the article amount to much of anything at this point. Even if GM did elvis Allison, doesn't mean they can't continue to source transmissions from Allison.

One of the major reasons I purchased my truck over a Ford or Dodge was the Allison 1000 Series in the truck.

 

True and technically they could take the design and keep it to themselves since it was devloped under "GM Powertrain/Allison". Although I do have to ask how sweet would the new larger Cummins be with an Allison?

 

Well, the LCT (1000 series tranny) was done by Allison, even before the folding of Allison into powertrain. But, Allison was owned by GM at the time.

I doubt anyone would buy Allison if they gave up rights to the LCT. In any case, as has been said, the sale of Allison would not prevent GM from using it as a source for the trucks as they do today. All that contractural stuff would have to be worked out, should this ever happen.

And yes, the Allison/DMAx combo is an AWESOME powertrain for a truck. Drives better than MANY automatic cars I've been in.

And by the way, you'd be amazed at how smoothly the big trannys (3000,4000 series) shift in big trucks.

 

Cat recently announced that they were getting into the heavy-duty automatic transmission business. Their new 6 speed automatics look a lot like the Allison World Series, at least in ratios. Does anyone know more about these?

On the related note, I've seen ads in some bus industry magazines to replace a B500R with one of the older HT series, such as the HT748. Why would someone want to replace a B500 with an HT748?

 

Is the 3000 the same as the B300? The B400 and B500 both do very nicely in buses, both coach and transit. I like them quite a bit more than the German competition (Voith and ZF). I was quite happy when the ZF purchase of Allison a few years ago didn't happen.

I do miss the sound of the old HT740 and V730 though.

 

http://www.cat.com/cda/components/fu...6&languageId=7



Caterpillar will introduce a new planetary automatic transmission designed specifically for medium-duty on-highway applications. Developed as a totally new design, this transmission will deliver the same reliable, durable performance customers have come to expect from the industry leader in on-highway engines.

"For decades Caterpillar has been building planetary transmissions for its construction equipment. We are now leveraging this expertise and applying it specifically to the transmission needs of on-highway customers," said Chris Schena, Caterpillar Vice President, Motion and Power Control Division. "Our first step was introducing the CX31 and CX35 transmissions to vocational truck builders and end users earlier this year. The CX28 is another step forward."

The CX28 has six forward speeds and one reverse speed with horsepower up to 400 (298 kW) and torque up to 1,250 lb-ft (1695 N×m). Weight is comparable to currently available alternatives that utilize power take-offs (PTO). The CX28 matches up with the Cat® C7 and C9 diesel engines.

Caterpillar will begin production in 2006 with OEM availability to be announced at a later date.

"We surveyed OEMs and end users to find out what they wanted and needed in an automatic transmission—their answers included improved performance, more power take-off options, and a single source of service," said Larry Riekert, On-Highway Manager, Caterpillar OEM Solutions Group. "These transmissions are designed to deliver all of these features, giving North American vehicle builders and owners a new choice in automatic transmissions."
Power take-off options are a major advantage when specifying an automatic transmission from Caterpillar. This transmission has three power take-off locations: two locations on the torque converter housing (2 o'clock and 8 o'clock) and a new high-output drive at the rear of the transmission. This rear drive can be fitted with a live yoke, a direct drive pump or a clutched adapter. The resulting narrow profile provides excellent packaging flexibility.
Cat Transmissions have an electronic control module (ECM) and will use industry standard J1939 communications protocol.

Cat parts and service support for the transmissions will be available through Caterpillar authorized facilities.

For 80 years, Caterpillar Inc. has been building the world's infrastructure and, in partnership with its worldwide dealer network, is driving positive and sustainable change on every continent. With 2004 sales and revenues of $30.25 billion, Caterpillar is a technology leader and the world's leading manufacturer of construction and mining equipment, diesel and natural gas engines and industrial gas turbines.

 

Yeah, CAT's goal is to overtake Allison's in the Transmission market. Something that isn't going to be easy.

Through a relative that works at Allison's; I heard the initial rumor was that CUMMINS was interested in Allisons. But I believe that just turned out to be "internet" rumor.

 

Why does GM look at it's profitable pieces to sell? This doesn't make much sense to me. Wouldn't the transmissions cost more if they sold Allison but still contracted them? Or would it not be a noticeable difference?

 

Now you have to realize, it doens't mean they will sell ALL of ALLISONS. Maybe something like they've done with GMAC.

And they are looking to sell because they need money, and it's hard to sell divisions that are LOSING money. Allisons is one of the few that are making money so it makes it valuable on the market...

 

Allison, not Allisons.

It would be like saying "Chevrolets" or "Fords". There is no S at the end (seems to be a common problem, as even some people who work at Allison say it with the phantom "s").

 

Cummings has the same problem . . . .