Most practical set of headers (LT1)?

Ok, I know this is kind of a dumb question (I did search for a bit, I just didn't find what I was looking for) but I would like to know which set of headers would be the most practical. Basically, the practicality aspect I am curious about is which set of headers for the LT1 would make swapping plugs easier (while giving a small performance increase) because the stock exhaust manifolds are a huge PITA to work around. So far, the one that has seemed the most appealing for what I am looking for out of a set based on what it looks like is this set:



http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=DTC%2D114%2D831350&N=700+4294908216+4294908198+4294924746+4294923429+ 4294918680+4294840140+115&autoview=sku



I'll admit, I don't have a whole lot of experience with long tube headers so I am not sure if the set I am looking at is worth the price (or if it can be found cheaper elsewhere) and if they bolt up to the rest of the ehxaust with no modificiation required. Also, I don't know if Dyantech quality is worth a damn; here are others I have looked at on the same site:



http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?RC=100&N=700+4294908216+4294908198+4294924746+4294923429+ 4294918680+4294840140+115&Ntt=&Ntk=&Ns=P_Rank%7C0&rsview=sku



From looking at what is available, it would seem that long tube headers will do what I want where as the short ones will not. Also, I'm not sure what diameter inlet piping the headers would need to be to match the stock exhaust manifolds and what would be an upgrade. Anyhow, if someone with a bit more experience could take a few minutes to make some recommendations to me, I'd really appreciate the time. Thanks in advance.

2 words:
Coated Pacesetters

slp - if u got the cash
edelbrock - nice gains

wat has the best gains?

slp has a massive price reduction on their 93 mids right now
stainless steel!

I'm not looking for what has the most gain performance wise, I'm looking for the set that would be the most practical for working on the car. The Pacesetters seem to wrap over the top much like the stock manifolds do, which appears to still be difficult for doing work down on the side of the engine. The Dynatech one that I looked at seems to be the only set that has no over lap but I have no idea if they are even a decent quality product. Also, I am not sure which of the available sets will bolt to the remaining stock exhaust.

Mac mids. Good plug access. Bolts to stock cat.

http://www.macperformance.com/store/product1.cfm?SID=3&Product_ID=457

SLPs are on a great deal right now and theyre stainless steel. You would have to get rid of your emmissions and you would need to get a 3" cat or 3" pipe to mate it to the rest of your exhaust. Mac headers have a good reputation for plug access and you can keep your emmissions stuff and it should bolt in with minimal modification. The Macs are just made of regular steel though, that shiny coating will turn to rust in a couple years.
The Dynatech one that I looked at seems to be the only set that has no over lap but I have no idea if they are even a decent quality product.
The picture of those headers are for an LS1 camaro, they wont fit yours.

I see you're asking about "direct bolt-in"....

You're not going to bolt longtubes up to stock exhaust by just replacing the manifolds. You'll need a y-pipe to go along with it plus welding a flange on the end to mate to the catback (better than welding the ypipe to the catback)

Practical implies:
easy to install
easy plug access
proven quality and performance
value
emmision friendly

The only header that is this is Mac headers, preferrably coated.
That is the most practical.

Yes LT's and a few other mids perform better, but they may cost more, plug access sux and they are harder to install.

My Jet Hot Longtubes have excellent plug access. I can take my time gapping all of the plugs, using dielectric grease, and making sure everything is right, and still get them done in a 1/2 hr.

Do you have to meet any sort of emissions inspection, particularly "visual"? That will determine what headers you have to select from. There are not many 96 dual-cat emisions certified headers.

I have Hooker shorties that are coated and love them #6 plug is the only one I have any trouble with other than that I can change all of them from the top with little or no prob and it has all the emmision stuff on it

If you want headers, you should get a catback as well, otherwise you will not see near the gains because the stock muffler will choke the exhaust.

I also have a OBDII LT1 ('96-'97). I bought the '94-'95 style Mac mids coated directly from www.jet-hot.com I also changed my catback to a '94-'95 style Hooker Aerochamber catback. All you need to do is fab up a cat, or bullet muffler to connect the Y-pipe to the catback. I have a write-up on here somewhere with how I did it. You'll also need rear O2 sims, or have them programmed out, but that's the case with almost any header.

I gained 35 rwhp and 30 rwtq from the headers and catback. It was a huge gain, and worth every penny. Roughly $280 for the catback, $550 for the headers, and $90 for the cat.

Plug access is awesome, the sound is incredible, and they installed well.

Dan

I have hooker Lt's and the plugs are very easy to change except for the #6and 8. Ground clearance is fine as long as you don't have a lowered car (I've never scraped). Installation is a pain but its not like you will do it a billion times. Do it once and do it right.

Thanks for the input guys, I'll take a look at the Mac mid headers as you've suggested but I'm still leaning towards long tube ones (not sure why, I think it's the look). No data on the quality of the Dynatech stuff?

Anyhow, as for my Camaro, it has a Flowmaster muffler and outlet pipes but I'm not sure if it's a full catback (I haven't had the time to crawl under it and look). I doubt that it is a full catback based on my impression of the seller (sort of a "minimal cost" kind of guy). I've had the car for about 3 months and it came with the muffler; I'm just looking ahead for the need to do a tune up. Also, I know it has both precats and I was kind of looking at the long tube sets to sort of eliminate those as well but I was trying to sort of stay as a direct bolt on setup; I guess I won't be able to really have both (bolt-on and long tube). As for emissions regulations, I don't have to meet any at the moment and unless FL changes thier rules I won't have to for awhile so I'm still considering the setups that remove emissions controls. I noticed that the Dynatech set I looked at online had bungs for O2 sensors but not for the EGR pipe. I know when I removed the EGR stuff on my Stealth I had issues with it on the stock ECU, will I have the same problems with the Camaro on the stock ECU?

With a 96 you will throw a code for removing emissions systems. There are a few approaches that you can take. One is to get a tune and call it a day. the other is to get 02 sims and place a resistor where your EGR was plugged in. Both would cost about the same so you might as well get the tune seeing as though it will also add additional performance.

Can you elaborate what you mean when you say "get a tune?" Is the stock ECU flash programmable or will I need a piggyback controller? Please keep in mind, when it comes to aftermarket tuning, I'm still a little one sided (import); don't take that the wrong way though, I've worked on cars for about 15 years (started as a job, now as a hobby and to help friends out) but when it comes to builds and tuning I've barely messed with it; the Stealth is my first.

Yes the PCM can be reflashed with a new tune.
Ion or Brian can do this for you.

Dont buy pace setter! Ive helped install a couple sets of these and wow they are junk IMO. I really like the SLP's.

Can you elaborate what you mean when you say "get a tune?" Is the stock ECU flash programmable or will I need a piggyback controller? Please keep in mind, when it comes to aftermarket tuning, I'm still a little one sided (import); don't take that the wrong way though, I've worked on cars for about 15 years (started as a job, now as a hobby and to help friends out) but when it comes to builds and tuning I've barely messed with it; the Stealth is my first.

By that I mean you can send your pcm in to be recalibrated for the new parts that have been installed on the car. The person doing the tune can also delete codes such as the EGR or AIR codes from the pcm so you won't get a SES light. As said above two good ones are Brian (PCMforless) and Ion (MAD----, I don't know the full name :D ). Brian tuned mine when I did headers and gears and updated it again when I did the 503 cam and did an excellent job both times. There are many things these guys can play with through the pcm.

What would I need to be able reprogram it myself?

LT1 edit. Not sure how much it costs though. There may be a few other programs as well. They all cost more than a mail order tuen though.

Dan

LT-1 Edit for 96-97 OBDII is 450.00 for 1 vin and can be found at

http://www.carputing.com/

Tunercat OBDII for same was briefly available for 389.00
with unlimited vins but was sold to Jet and vin locked with a higher price.

Hmm, just a bit more than I was wanting to spend for a computer program I may only use once or twice. Does anyone on here have it for personal use and find it to be worth the $450? How difficult is the program to work with? Will it also program out the skip-shift as well? If I use LT-1 Edit to delete something such as the EGR or Air codes, can I later put them back in?

You can save your original file first then make changes and save that.
You can always reflash to or start with your original file.
I have unlimited updates with MadZ28.
If I make major changes I can have a tune emailed to me
and use LT-1 Edit to load it.
First there was my S/C and 30# injectors, then the cam and heads and the 58mm TB.
Myself I've taken Ion's tune and added 2 degrees more advance in the tables due to my 9.75 cr which worked great, and lowered the fan temperatures.
I also increased the 1-2 shift at 12.5% TB from 10 to 15
so I'd have more time to hang it in first.

I have my original tune,
HPP3 tune saved then unit sold.
S/C tune w 30# injectors.
S/C heads, cam 30# injectors tune
as above with higher first shift and 2 deg advance.

LT-1 Edit for OBDII is somewhat expensive but it does have it's advantages.
If I was racing my car it would be even more handy.

slp has a massive price reduction on their 93 mids right now
stainless steel!



Thanks for the info, just ordered mine...:)

i paid 200 for my pace setter mids off ebay and another 125 to have them coated. easy install (except for teh fact that i have a 97 and i bought 94 headers and had to custom up my own y-pipe) very easy to access plugs (i dont have to get ANY from under the car (with a shortened plug socket and a ratchet wrench), emissions legal, and they have decent gians. very cheap, very easy access, easy to install...what else do you need?

if i had it to do again, i'd go with the eddelbrock TES headers, and get the right year model for my car. i dont like long tubes because you have to re-route the fuel lines under the car, and you may have to modify the y-pipe with a BFH to get it to fit.

2 words:
Coated Pacesetters

Smart man. :)

Does the LT-1 Edit program allow you to log on it?


I keep hearing conflicting things about Pacesetter parts, for those who've had experience with them, why do you consider them good/bad? Is it just the fact that they are not coated and rust? Are there manufacturing flaws?

Does the LT-1 Edit program allow you to log on it?


LT1_Edit for OBD-I includes pcmcomm data logging software. The OBD-II version does not include any logging software.

Damn, that sucks. Is there an OBD-II program that will log as well as reprogram the PCM?

HP Tuners

I was under the impression HP Tuners is Gen III/IV (LSx) specific? Is this not correct?

hp tuners dont' work on 0bd 2 lt1 cars unfortunately.

my pacesetter longtubes were of excellent quality, and for the price($520 shipped to my door including off-road y-pipe) they can't be beat. There were zero clearance issues and the headers/y-pipe tuck up above the trans am ground effects

Just for contrast, over 2 years I have come to despise my pacesetter longtubes/y-pipe setup.

Problems:

1. Slip-on flanges. I have never been able to totally solve the exhaust leaks between the headers and the y-pipe. I have tried many brands of band clamp and many styles without success.

2. Y-pipe. The y-pipe has always hung a bit low on the passenger's side. I've tried to tweak it many times, but without severely mangling the mounting bracket I can't seem to get it tucked up. It also had the same problems as the header slip fits, but I eventually fixed that by welding the two pieces together.

Some people have complained about the coating, but mine is still very nice in the engine compartment. The parts that are dragged through puddles are starting to get rust spots, but I would expect that from any coated header.

People claim that the ground clearance is better. I manage to get over most speed bumps easily, but if you are going a little bit too fast you will still bang the y-pipe on your way down.

All in all I wish I had paid the extra cash and went with a header that had a flange on it, and then had a custom y-pipe made. I even bought a set of the awesome flowmaster ball-joint header collectors, but due to the way the underside of the car is configured, they are basically impossible to retrofit onto the pacesetters.

Just for contrast, over 2 years I have come to despise my pacesetter longtubes/y-pipe setup.

Problems:

1. Slip-on flanges. I have never been able to totally solve the exhaust leaks between the headers and the y-pipe. I have tried many brands of band clamp and many styles without success.

2. Y-pipe. The y-pipe has always hung a bit low on the passenger's side. I've tried to tweak it many times, but without severely mangling the mounting bracket I can't seem to get it tucked up. It also had the same problems as the header slip fits, but I eventually fixed that by welding the two pieces together.

Some people have complained about the coating, but mine is still very nice in the engine compartment. The parts that are dragged through puddles are starting to get rust spots, but I would expect that from any coated header.

People claim that the ground clearance is better. I manage to get over most speed bumps easily, but if you are going a little bit too fast you will still bang the y-pipe on your way down.

All in all I wish I had paid the extra cash and went with a header that had a flange on it, and then had a custom y-pipe made. I even bought a set of the awesome flowmaster ball-joint header collectors, but due to the way the underside of the car is configured, they are basically impossible to retrofit onto the pacesetters.

I've experience similar issues with my Pacesetters as well as some other gremlins. But considering the cost and that they are a budget header, I can't complain too much. Hopefully one day when money permits, a set of Kooks will be in the mail.:)

If you want to never curse your plugs go with the Macs. You can run OTVC wires with the Macs something you can't with most headers. I can change my spark plugs in 30 minutes.

Cam, stock heads, RRs no cat with the macs through a cutout I did ~340 RWHP. 326 through the exhaust (B&B triflo).

If you want to never curse your plugs go with the Macs. You can run OTVC wires with the Macs something you can't with most headers. I can change my spark plugs in 30 minutes.

Cam, stock heads, RRs no cat with the macs through a cutout I did ~340 RWHP. 326 through the exhaust (B&B triflo).

So you picked up 14 horsepower with the cutout open? If so, very nice.:) What kind of cam do you have in there?