Will the 2008/2009 mid-level V8 Camaro be able to take out LS1s?

What do you guys think?

of course it will 400HP compared to 310 HP

of course it will 400HP compared to 310 HP

C'mon now, LS1s clearly put out at least 350HP to the crank. Not to mention they will have a weight advantage.

I dont think there would be any problem beating a stock LS1

C'mon now, LS1s clearly put out at least 350HP to the crank. Not to mention they will have a weight advantage.

That and GM seems to like to add torque management into the mix.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if the '01-'02s could hang with a new camaro
with "400hp".

depends on the new car's weight, and power. i hope a new stock V8 rated signfiicatly higher will have no trouble with a old stock V8.

when you say mid level are you talking about a 5.3 or a ls2?

:banging head on wall:

when you say mid level are you talking about a 5.3 or a ls2?

5.3L or whatever they're going to use in a new model.

:lol:

01-02 might be able to hang with a new Camaro, but the 98-00 don't stand a chance. :eek:

I'm assuming the new Camaro will weigh about like the newest GTOs, and the LS2 Goats could run a little ahead of your average LS1 Fbody with equal drivers, but it was pretty close. I suspect if the "midlevel" (or more like top model for the first couple years) gets the LS3 w/ 425-ish hp it will have absolutely no trouble pulling a LS1 Fbody. But if the "midlevel" gets a 350ish hp 5.3 then it will likely have alot of trouble, and probably lose to a LS1 Fbody, seeing as power will be very similar and again I'm assuming it'll weigh in around 3650 lbs...

Will certainly be some interesting comparisons to make.

02 Camaros are rated around 375 hp, I thought.

The 5th gen better be able to outgun a 4th gen. :think:

What the hell is the point in evolving otherwise? :irk:

The 5th gen better be able to outgun a 4th gen. :think:

What the hell is the point in evolving otherwise? :irk:

This has kind of been a concern of mine for quite some time now. The new Camaro better be packing over 400hp in it's midlevel v8, but with it's added heft and IRS setup, it is going to need that power to pull away from a 350hp/3350-3500lb LS1 fbody.

02 Camaros are rated around 375 hp, I thought.

WS6's were rated at 325hp. With the lid package the SS/Firehawks reached 335hp.

However, they came in more around 350hp. I don't think we're going to see such a weight gain that it will hurt it that much. Also acceleration depends on tires, suspension, and gearing which can overcome the weight difference.

Plus we don't know the weight yet. The 02 t-tops were coming in around 3450 and the 06 GTO's are coming in around 3700. I suspect we're going to see it come in right between the 2. Since 06 GTO's are already running high 12's low 13's with 400hp, I suspect a slightly lighter Camaro with more like 425hp will run even quicker.

Chris

WS6's were rated at 325hp. With the lid package the SS/Firehawks reached 335hp.

However, they came in more around 350hp. I don't think we're going to see such a weight gain that it will hurt it that much. Also acceleration depends on tires, suspension, and gearing which can overcome the weight difference.

Plus we don't know the weight yet. The 02 t-tops were coming in around 3450 and the 06 GTO's are coming in around 3700. I suspect we're going to see it come in right between the 2. Since 06 GTO's are already running high 12's low 13's with 400hp, I suspect a slightly lighter Camaro with more like 425hp will run even quicker.

Chris


Hopefully the v8 cars don't come in at 3800lbs, like some have suggested on here. Tire technology hasn't changed by leaps and bounds since 02, I doubt the 5th gen is going to be geared much more aggressively than the 4th gen was, due to the heavy emphasis on fuel economy nowadays, and most IRS setups are notoriously difficult to launch really well on. We have yet to see how the 5th gen's rear suspension setup will deal with an aggressive launch, and weight is not finalized at this point (hell, the car isn't either), but these are the roots for some of the causes of my concerns.

:lol:

01-02 might be able to hang with a new Camaro, but the 98-00 don't stand a chance. :eek:
dont count them all out, i dynoed 324.9rwhp and 342.2rwtq with only a k&n filter and slp LM. a friend of mine with a 02 ws6 with lid/filter/exhaust/headers only dynoed 321rwhp.

Yeah they will be faster.

Yeah they will be faster.


And how do you know.

If the 5th gen is 3700lbs or more, i think it will be a good match up.

Hopefully the v8 cars don't come in at 3800lbs, like some have suggested on here. Tire technology hasn't changed by leaps and bounds since 02, I doubt the 5th gen is going to be geared much more aggressively than the 4th gen was, due to the heavy emphasis on fuel economy nowadays, and most IRS setups are notoriously difficult to launch really well on. We have yet to see how the 5th gen's rear suspension setup will deal with an aggressive launch, and weight is not finalized at this point (hell, the car isn't either), but these are the roots for some of the causes of my concerns.

Sorry I should have elaborated. What I meant by tires was that they could be larger/stickier. The Goodyears on my WS.6 weren't that great and I'm sure they could be upgraded with maybe the same variant as the Z06 uses (but obviously slightly smaller sizes).

Chris

Well think about it this way.

The LS1's were rated at around 325 for the SS/WS-6, but REALLY puts out around 350-360.

The LS2 is rated @ 400, SO WHY would'nt it put out around 425-440

I think that they are all underrated a bit. So i wouldnt worry about putting the slap down on an LS1.

I mean when all is said and done, its still a 75 hp difference. thats quite a bit no matter how you look at it.

I sure hope the new mid level with eat the 4th gens. I'm SICK AND TIRED of being beaten by Camaro SS's. I'm just wondering will GM allow the 28K dollar camaro to be faster than the 33K dollar GTO.

WS6's were rated at 325hp. With the lid package the SS/Firehawks reached 335hp.

However, they came in more around 350hp. I don't think we're going to see such a weight gain that it will hurt it that much. Also acceleration depends on tires, suspension, and gearing which can overcome the weight difference.

Plus we don't know the weight yet. The 02 t-tops were coming in around 3450 and the 06 GTO's are coming in around 3700. I suspect we're going to see it come in right between the 2. Since 06 GTO's are already running high 12's low 13's with 400hp, I suspect a slightly lighter Camaro with more like 425hp will run even quicker.

Chris


Show me a dyno sheet of a stock WS6 making 350HP to the pavement and I'll eat my hat.

Show me a dyno sheet of a stock WS6 making 350HP to the pavement and I'll eat my hat.

he's referring to crank HP. Everyone knows LS1s put out more than their advertised HP.

:banging head on wall:
I believe you were looking for this sir.....

http://images.corvetteforum.com/images/smilies/banghead.gif

I believe you were looking for this sir.....

http://images.corvetteforum.com/images/smilies/banghead.gif

:D thanks

I'm assuming the new Camaro will weigh about like the newest GTOs, and the LS2 Goats could run a little ahead of your average LS1 Fbody with equal drivers, but it was pretty close...

Not really.
Goats get to 60 about half a second quicker and the quarter 1/4 to 1/2 second quicker with a 5 to 8 mph advantage.

02 Camaros are rated around 375 hp, I thought.

No they weren't.

They ranged between 335 and 345 horses, despite whatever was advertised or what the supposed horsepower advantage an SS supposedly gained over a base Z28.

The 02 t-tops were coming in around 3450...

Nope again.

Try around 3,570 lbs.... with T-tops.

I sure hope the new mid level with eat the 4th gens. I'm SICK AND TIRED of being beaten by Camaro SS's...

Then lose the '83 Z, pump more $$$ into the Cobalt, or simply buy a used supercharged Cobra, or a new SRT8 Charger, SRT-8 300, SRT-8 Magnum, or an LS2 GTO. All will reverse your fortunes pretty quickly.


I believe you were looking for this sir.....

http://images.corvetteforum.com/images/smilies/banghead.gif

That icon's going to get alot of use around here.

A '06 GTO is capable of a 116mph trap stock???

A '06 GTO is capable of a 116mph trap stock???

Hell no.. :lol:

Gtos don't trap any higher 110 stock. Most run 12.9-13.2..

Not really.
Goats get to 60 about half a second quicker and the quarter 1/4 to 1/2 second quicker with a 5 to 8 mph advantage.



No they weren't.

They ranged between 335 and 345 horses, despite whatever was advertised or what the supposed horsepower advantage an SS supposedly gained over a base Z28.



Nope again.

Try around 3,570 lbs.... with T-tops.



Then lose the '83 Z, pump more $$$ into the Cobalt, or simply buy a used supercharged Cobra, or a new SRT8 Charger, SRT-8 300, SRT-8 Magnum, or an LS2 GTO. All will reverse your fortunes pretty quickly.




That icon's going to get alot of use around here.


Actually those are more like magazine numbers. At the track "stockish" GTO's have been running mid 13's @105ish whereas "stockish" LS1 F-bodies run low 13's at roughly the same mph. Stockish meaning the minor bolt-ons like CAI and a catback.
Also for the weight issue 3450 is closer than 3570. My LT1 car only tipped the scales at 3480 lbs. I can't see an aluminum LS1 weighing 100 lbs more.

Nope again.

Try around 3,570 lbs.... with T-tops.



Maybe with someone in it.

Mine weighed under 3,500 lbs when I weighed it at the track, bone stock.

Chris

Maybe with someone in it.

Mine weighed under 3,500 lbs when I weighed it at the track, bone stock.

Chris

Some guys on here like to believe most 4th gens are above 3500lbs minus the driver. It makes the 5th gen's weight easier to deal with I guess.

They ranged between 335 and 345 horses, despite whatever was advertised or what the supposed horsepower advantage an SS supposedly gained over a base Z28.






'02 Z28= 310
'02 SS= 325
"02 SS w/SLP exhuast 345

Now we're good :D

'02 Z28= 310
'02 SS= 325
"02 SS w/SLP exhuast 345

Now we're good :D

You misread him, and simply quoted the advertised HP. GuionM was referring to the motor's actual output, as the LS1s were very underrated by GM in the fbodies.

I just weighed my SS with t-tops at the track last week...3400lbs(no spare/jack)...so probably 3450 stock as said above.

I've been to the strip more times than i can remember in the last two years and i've never seen a new gto hit 12's stock.

I understand we want the future to be bright for the 5th gen, and we all want it to do well in all aspects, but its simple...if the base V8 puts down 370 to the wheels and weighs over 3700lbs, it will be a good race with an ls1.

Look forward to the future, but don't ignore the past.

Then lose the '83 Z, pump more $$$ into the Cobalt, or simply buy a used supercharged Cobra, or a new SRT8 Charger, SRT-8 300, SRT-8 Magnum, or an LS2 GTO. All will reverse your fortunes pretty quickly.

Where is the logic in this?

If we're talking pure speed here, keep the 83...throw in a built motor, good trans, and a 12 bolt and beat the hell out of every car mentioned, and save a ton of money in the process.

This is why i stick with one brand, my eyes don't wonder no matter what the other guy comes out with...because a year later, something will be "better" or faster stock.

Weight, the ultimate enemy...its simple, they're offsetting the weight with the little voice in the consumers head saying 500 horsepower!

Maybe i'm just bitter..the idea of a LS1 4th gen being average, or slow! Never thought that day would come :D

02 Camaros are rated around 375 hp, I thought.

375? Uh, no way.

I'm assuming the new Camaro will weigh about like the newest GTOs, and the LS2 Goats could run a little ahead of your average LS1 Fbody with equal drivers, but it was pretty close...
Not really.
Goats get to 60 about half a second quicker and the quarter 1/4 to 1/2 second quicker with a 5 to 8 mph advantage.
Can't say I agree with that at all. That would put the GTOs solidly (several tenths) under 5 secs 0-60 and 12.7s-12.8s in the quarter. You'd be hard pressed to come anywhere near 4.7-4.8 0-60s and although high 12s are probably possible in the 1/4, they're possible in a LS1 Fbody under great conditions as well and they aren't common in either car. And an 8mph advantage through the quarter is ridiculously high...

Average times I've seen have the GTOs driven as well as the Fbodies results in the GTOs running a tenth or two quicker through the quarter, not a half second and 8 mph quicker...

Maybe you meant magazine times, which I guess might come out about like your results. But for whatever reaosn the "mainstream" mags usually got pretty poor times from LS1 Fbodies whereas they seem to be getting fairly good times for the GTOs, about like real owners at real tracks. I think the standards for magazine testing conditions and such have gotten more accurate and consistent in the 5+ years since most of them ran their LS1 tests perhaps explaining that somewhat... As far as I'm aware mags like GMHTP and such that actually got good (or stellar) times out of LS1 Fbodies have not quite matched those results w/ 05-06 GTOs yet, although the average times for both are probably about right in line...

Where is the logic in this?

If we're talking pure speed here, keep the 83...throw in a built motor, good trans, and a 12 bolt and beat the hell out of every car mentioned, and save a ton of money in the process.:D

This was actually my very first car and it was given to me by my stepdad. Its in good condition but unfortunently it is currently under a boat shelter collecting dust. My stepdad and me are looking to perhaps strip out the current powertrain and make it into a street legal drag car.

The budget will be about 10 grand but it is not set in stone. We both have low level mechanic knowledge so we're going to have to find a family member or friend to do the actual motor assembly and drop in.

Any ideas on a Motor/trans combination? Gas mileage and road trip worthiness are not a factor. Were looking for performance slightly above that of an LS2 GTO. So, we basically want a 12 second car thats not overly complicated.

It will look good sitting next to ye Cobalt SS/SC and 5th gen SS. :bow: :bow: :bow:

This was actually my very first car and it was given to me by my stepdad. Its in good condition but unfortunently it is currently under a boat shelter collecting dust. My stepdad and me are looking to perhaps strip out the current powertrain and make it into a street legal drag car.

The budget will be about 10 grand but it is not set in stone. We both have low level mechanic knowledge so we're going to have to find a family member or friend to do the actual motor assembly and drop in.

Any ideas on a Motor/trans combination? Gas mileage and road trip worthiness are not a factor. Were looking for performance slightly above that of an LS2 GTO. So, we basically want a 12 second car thats not overly complicated.

It will look good sitting next to ye Cobalt SS/SC and 5th gen SS. :bow: :bow: :bow:

10k ?? thats easy, build a nice 383 stroker for 4k that puts 425 to the wheels, pick up a 6 speed for 1500, and buy a new 12 bolt rear for 2300..then put the rest of the money into suspension and tires. If you have a little extra throw on a nitrous plate, just a 100 shot will have you running with z06's on the highway, and you'll destroy them at the strip.

Building the motor is technical of course, but dropping everything in just comes down to patience. A fast 3rd gen is a lot more impressive than a stock 12 sec. car.

A fast 3rd gen is a lot more impressive than a stock 12 sec. car.

Why? As you stated, it is typically cheap to build up an old 3rd gen. Besides, I have seen plenty of drag 3rd gens at the track. You just don't see that many fast ones on the street.

It's not that hard to build a fast 3rd gen. You figure the 5.7l models had over 300lb/ft tq off the floor, and new heads alone did wonders to help their deficient hp stock. TPI and a small block... you're well on the way to real power.

It's not that hard to build a fast 3rd gen. You figure the 5.7l models had over 300lb/ft tq off the floor, and new heads alone did wonders to help their deficient hp stock. TPI and a small block... you're well on the way to real power.

I've always been a 3rd Gen nut, but you're being WAY Over-Optimistic about the L98's capability.

Heads Suck.
Cam Sucks.
TPI Sucks.
Exhaust Sucks.
Transmission Sucks.

You can mod it up with nicer heads/cam, but you'll still be restricted to ~4,500rpm with all but an Aftermarket TPI; and even those only get you to about 5,000rpm before falling on their face. If you stick with a TPI you're looking at a BEST of mid-12's and that's if the star's align. I don't know of ANY TPI car that's into the 11's without major/major weight reductions or a power adder.

Although, a Holley Stealth Ram or TPIS (if you wanna spend the money) Miniram can wake things up nicely. SuperRam's ok too, but costly and a PITA to work on.

Back to topic, I think it'll probably be very close. I don't expect a 400hp engine in the "Midlevel" V8 and I don't think Chevy would even want that. A 350hp 5.3L would be an excellent Mid-Level V8. And yes a late model LS1 could probably hang and possibly beat it. But that late model LS1 was the TOP OF THE LINE, best you could get engine. I expect the Z28/SS whatever to have the LS2 (or derivative) and it WILL eat a Z28/SS 4th Gen alive (Stock/Stock)....

Blah

I guess I'm just dated... i think mid-12's is screaming fast :) I hit low 13's with heads, exhaust, chip, and cam with my 88 IROC that had the L98. And honestly it wasn't too extremely expensive to get there. However I'll admit on a highway roll an LT1 would eat me up, let alone an LS1.

Also, on topic. I also think about 350 to maybe 375hp is what you'll see in a mid-level Camaro V8. I'm more interested in finding out what the gearing is going to be like in them, comapred to what it was in the past.

Why? As you stated, it is typically cheap to build up an old 3rd gen. Besides, I have seen plenty of drag 3rd gens at the track. You just don't see that many fast ones on the street.

Satisfaction maybe? beating cars you shouldn't, with something you built yourself....and you're right, i've seen plenty of dragged out 3rd gens, but i've only seen 2 or 3 fast ones on the street.