Question for the SERIOUS auto buffs

In light of Scott's passing statement that the Camaro concept is booked solid for the next year and a half, it makes me wonder this:

In history, has there ever been a concept car that has been displayed, video taped, put in movies, photo shot, commercialized and actually test driven, as much as the Camaro concept? It seems the concept will have 50,000 miles on it before its all said and done. While I am not that old(38), I can't recall a concept in my lifetime that has been poked, prodded and put out to the public for inspection like the Camaro concept has.

Thats very true....And that only proves what the faithful have been saying here since 2001…….IT SHOULD HAVE NEVER GONE ON HIATIS ;) I'm still happy though how it turned out...

To tell you the truth, i can't think of one either.

But i also cant think of another car that is so Iconic to america.

Even the Vette isnt as much of a symbol.

Not to mention, its the coolest looking concept ive seen in a the last 20 years.

i agree it shouldnt have gone on its hiatus.. but perhaps it is going to be a better car because of it.

As for your question about there ever being a concept as poked and prodded.. i dunno.. either way though.. it is something for us to speculate on..

im still in the very great minority of hoping for a sometime next year production, but its probably impossible. who knows though.
-steve

Bet the concept feels like a farmer that has been abducted by aliens, what with all the poking and prodding. But one thing is for sure, they are killing thier trade-in value with all those miles.:D

Thats very true....And that only proves what the faithful have been saying here since 2001…….IT SHOULD HAVE NEVER GONE ON HIATIS ;) I'm still happy though how it turned out...

I have to disagree. If it took a hiatus to get us this car and rid of the issues with the last gen I am happy :cool:

I have to disagree. If it took a hiatus to get us this car and rid of the issues with the last gen I am happy :cool:

Well true.....I blame old Mgmt....

In light of Scott's passing statement that the Camaro concept is booked solid for the next year and a half, it makes me wonder this:

In history, has there ever been a concept car that has been displayed, video taped, put in movies, photo shot, commercialized and actually test driven, as much as the Camaro concept? It seems the concept will have 50,000 miles on it before its all said and done. While I am not that old(38), I can't recall a concept in my lifetime that has been poked, prodded and put out to the public for inspection like the Camaro concept has.

That's easy. :lol:

The 1955 Lincoln Futura.

Did a serious stint at auto shows for some time. It had at least 2 customizing jobs, in the end was given to George Barris and redone & had a final life as the Batmobile in the 60s TV series.

Went again on the auto show circuit and made special public appearences at fairs, conventions, etc...... over a 12 year period!

Who's yer daddy? :lol:

Lincoln Futura:
http://www.1966batmobile.com/background.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Futura

I'm only a few years older than you. ;)

I doubt that the concept is actually really racking up many miles. Maybe a few hundred by the end of the year. Most of the miles it travels occur with it riding quietly in the back of a truck.

That's easy. :lol:

The 1955 Lincoln Futura.

Did a serious stint at auto shows for some time. It had at least 2 customizing jobs, in the end was given to George Barris and redone & had a final life as the Batmobile in the 60s TV series.

Went again on the auto show circuit and made special public appearences at fairs, conventions, etc...... over a 12 year period!

Who's yer daddy? :lol:

Lincoln Futura:
http://www.1966batmobile.com/background.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Futura

I'm only a few years older than you. ;)

Many bows to the auto god ! :bow: :bow:

Given this new info, I'll have to rephrase my question to concept cars that actually went into production. If at first you don't succeed, change the rules!

They hyped the bejeesus out of the Solstice before it went on sale. It was even on The Apprentice, before it was out. They even showed it at NAIAS more than once too. I wonder how many concept cars can boast that little feat.

I think I can one-up you guy....:p

Harley Earl drove his '39(?) LaSabre concept car everyday for (I think) the better part of a year. Plus, it was one of the first true 'dream cars' to come out of detroit and was part of what started the autorama (autoshow) concept.

I believe that LaSabre is still all original and in great running condition.

They hyped the bejeesus out of the Solstice before it went on sale. It was even on The Apprentice, before it was out. They even showed it at NAIAS more than once too. I wonder how many concept cars can boast that little feat.

I believe the one in the Apprentice was a preproduction car. The hype surrounding the Solstice was the production model. GM invited the press on drives of the engineering mules. The actual cobbled together (from J-chassis & Subaru parts) concept car did the auto show circuit for awhile, then was retired as work continued towards production.


I think I can one-up you guy....:p

Harley Earl drove his '39(?) LaSabre concept car everyday for (I think) the better part of a year. Plus, it was one of the first true 'dream cars' to come out of detroit and was part of what started the autorama (autoshow) concept.

I believe that LaSabre is still all original and in great running condition.

Ahh! Good one! :lol:

The car was actually driven quite a few miles, and I believe was actually the 1st real "concept" car. But I don't think it had the exposure the Futura did as far as film and the length of time it was in the public's eye.

If I'm not mistaken, that LeSabre is still in GM's collection, so it has been around the longest by far! :)

I think I can one-up you guy....:p

Harley Earl drove his '39(?) LaSabre concept car everyday for (I think) the better part of a year. Plus, it was one of the first true 'dream cars' to come out of detroit and was part of what started the autorama (autoshow) concept.

I believe that LaSabre is still all original and in great running condition.

That is such a cool car, I cant believe I forgot to mention it, good call! :thumb:

Good point, Guy.

But let me say this.........and I've talked to a lot of people......

No one at GM can remember of a car getting this much attention......at least in the past 40 years. The only car that I can think can approach the attention that this car is getting would be the 84 Corvette. I don't even think the C5 got this much attention.....but then again, we unveiled it when it was ready for sale.

The Solstice and SSR got a ton of attention........but the Camaro Concept outshines them in terms of consumer interest.

I got a question for all those who say the car shouldnt have gone in to hiatus

Would the car get the hype that its getting now? would we be seeing the younger kids thats just coming in to the driving age start craving for the American muscle cars again?

Think of it you guys

Since the showing of the Camaro concept & also the other concepts in Jan the price of the Classic cars that were displayed in Detroit in Jan have started going through the roof. You can now NOT touch a 1st or early 2nd gen Camaro/Firebird for less than $20k no matter what the shape it is in. (at least not here in Washington state)


Yes the GTO & the Mustang once again brough the 2nd coming of the American Muscle cars back but its the Camaro & the Challenger that will bring everyone to their knees once again.

Good point, Guy.

The only car that I can think can approach the attention that this car is getting would be the 84 Corvette.

This is ironic, as the C4 is the least desireable of the Vettes today. Same with the 3rd Gen Camaro which won MTs Car of the Year and was pronounced the most beautiful car produced. Today it is clarion of the white trash stigma.

In the mid-80s, when I had my '68 Camaro, the 1st and 3rd Gens were all the rave and 2nd Gens were frowned upon. I had the chance to buy a mint '70 split bumper with low miles for $750. I didn't buy it, as I thought a kegger beer party was a better idea. Today, I've seen the same cars on eBay commanding as much as $30k.

Right now, without looking too hard, a 3rd Gen in good condition can be had for under $1,000. I have a strong feeling that as the 5th Gen starts to roll out, 3rd Gens will experience a resurgence in popularity and the price will start creeping back up.

Since the showing of the Camaro concept & also the other concepts in Jan the price of the Classic cars that were displayed in Detroit in Jan have started going through the roof. You can now NOT touch a 1st or early 2nd gen Camaro/Firebird for less than $20k no matter what the shape it is in. (at least not here in Washington state)



I don't know Krazzy. While I can agree that the hiatus might have been the only way to properly revitalize the Camaro - emphasis on properly, I don't necessarily think we can draw a connection between classics revival and the 5th Gen's reappearance. The price of Classics have been skyrocketting for several years now and their dramatic increase in value is akin to the real estate boom that we just experienced.

While the internet boom/bust marked the demise of many small, it also marked the beginning of a huge capital shift. When the dotcoms fell apart, those who made a killing in the Nasdaq needed a place to put their money. Real estate was one of them. The day the Nasdaq crashed marked the beginning of the current real estate grab. The internet bubble may have burst, but the real estate bubble began its expansion. That same investment shift moved over to other material goods as well, such as classic cars. Many found themselves in positions of being able to afford their hobbies like never before. Thus an entire new breed of classic cars became a commodity.

Cars from the 60's and 70's that were once only found at the bottom of junk yard heaps, such as the Mercury Comet, Pontiac Tempest, Buick Skylark, Pontiac Catalina, Oldsmobile Cutlass, Oldsmobile Delta, Chevy Nova, Chrysler Imperial, Ford Torino, Ford Maverick were being restored and driven both as a display of conspicuous consumption and an in-your-face tribute to the golden Americana auto age. It is a rebellious resurgence of American coolness, in the face of import scrutiny of all that is American. BMW/Porsche drivers who scoff and sneer at everything domestic now get a proud middle finger from the driver of a 4,500 pound chunk of metal that gets 8 mpg.

I got a question for all those who say the car shouldnt have gone in to hiatus

Would the car get the hype that its getting now? would we be seeing the younger kids thats just coming in to the driving age start craving for the American muscle cars again?.

Yes we would have seen the same amount of hype. The 'stick-your-head-in-the-sand-retro-lovefest' was bigger or just about to take off in around '02. Plus the departure in styling would've been more dramatic.

Plus...Chevy's "spotted" how many sales to Ford according to one quoted GM official (not of Martian way)? I know all the reasons it went on hiatus; a victim of circumstance. But I really think it'd been better not to interupt the generations.

I don't think that a hiatus was "necessary" to bring attention back to the Camaro. I think that proper management and decisions regarding the direction of the car would have helped, and actually ADVERTISING would have gone a long way to A) increasing the sales of the 4th-gens, and B) securing the future of the Camaro without any gap in production.

Yes, GM is working the current situation very well ... the car is getting lots of hype, and it's been a long time coming. People like us are relieved to finally see SOMETHING come our way. And fortunately the media is covering the car enough to spread the word to the general population, who are taking a liking to it.

BUT, look at the current Mustang. It never took a break in production, and in '05, I don't think Ford could keep up with the demand for the restyled RETRO Mustang?!:rolleyes: The Camaro didn't need a hiatus to create the same buzz. It just needed more support and promotion from INSIDE GM to keep it afloat.

In terms of the original question though, I can't think of any car in recent years to get this much attention. Even while Chrysler is trying to push the Challenger, and get it into the spotlight, I think the Camaro is still winning the "popularity contest";). But I guess the sales figures in a couple years will show the real truth?:shrug:

But what would be REALLY NICE, is not showing up LATE for the party!!!:no: Perhaps the Camaro could make an early entrance, and impress the f**king pants off of EVERYBODY!!!!:D (is that too much to ask?;))

I don't think that a hiatus was "necessary" to bring attention back to the Camaro. I think that proper management and decisions regarding the direction of the car would have helped, and actually ADVERTISING would have gone a long way to A) increasing the sales of the 4th-gens, and B) securing the future of the Camaro without any gap in production.

Yes, GM is working the current situation very well ... the car is getting lots of hype, and it's been a long time coming. People like us are relieved to finally see SOMETHING come our way. And fortunately the media is covering the car enough to spread the word to the general population, who are taking a liking to it.


As for Proper Managment of the Fbody you are wrong there. It was the lack of Love for the fbody from the old Vice Pres of GM (the guy who Bob Lutz took over for) & the fact that the 4th gen fbody car couldnt & wouldnt pass safety testing no matter what they did.

as for Advertising yes I think GM fell short there with both the Camaro & Firebird. But then if you also look at things how many ads on tv do you see JUST the Vette? Just the Cobolt?, Just the HHR? Just the SSR??? Hardly if any

If the Camaro was brought out in 03 as the body style it is today alot of people would have went OH ok what ever, I know I would have. but since its been out of everyones mind & sight for the last 4yrs everyone went OH WOW I want.

I don't think that a hiatus was "necessary" to bring attention back to the Camaro. I think that proper management and decisions regarding the direction of the car would have helped, and actually ADVERTISING would have gone a long way to A) increasing the sales of the 4th-gens, and B) securing the future of the Camaro without any gap in production.

Yes, GM is working the current situation very well ... the car is getting lots of hype, and it's been a long time coming. People like us are relieved to finally see SOMETHING come our way. And fortunately the media is covering the car enough to spread the word to the general population, who are taking a liking to it.

BUT, look at the current Mustang. It never took a break in production, and in '05, I don't think Ford could keep up with the demand for the restyled RETRO Mustang?!:rolleyes: The Camaro didn't need a hiatus to create the same buzz. It just needed more support and promotion from INSIDE GM to keep it afloat.

In terms of the original question though, I can't think of any car in recent years to get this much attention. Even while Chrysler is trying to push the Challenger, and get it into the spotlight, I think the Camaro is still winning the "popularity contest";). But I guess the sales figures in a couple years will show the real truth?:shrug:

But what would be REALLY NICE, is not showing up LATE for the party!!!:no: Perhaps the Camaro could make an early entrance, and impress the f**king pants off of EVERYBODY!!!!:D (is that too much to ask?;))

The 05 Mustang was a bombshell. If the Camaro had fixed the issues and went 69 retro in 03 or even 05 it would have done just as well. It would have got my attention

If the Camaro was brought out in 03 as the body style it is today alot of people would have went OH ok what ever, I know I would have. but since its been out of everyones mind & sight for the last 4yrs everyone went OH WOW I want.

not me. had they done this in 03 I would have thought that GM actually might build a Camaro I would buy again.

As for Proper Managment of the Fbody you are wrong there. It was the lack of Love for the fbody from the old Vice Pres of GM (the guy who Bob Lutz took over for)...

...as for Advertising yes I think GM fell short there with both the Camaro & Firebird. But then if you also look at things how many ads on tv do you see JUST the Vette? Just the Cobolt?, Just the HHR? Just the SSR??? Hardly if any
Fine, so the "management" was fine:rolleyes:. My point being, and you just reinforced it, is there was a "lack of love" from INSIDE GM (corporate, management, whomever) ... the car didn't just die of its own accord:no:.

And are there 'Vette/Cobalt/HHR/SSR commercials for those cars as stand-alone?:shrug: Well, I've seen more of them in the last couple years than I did of any F-body commercial pretty much after ~'92/'93 (basically, once the 4th-gen was debuted, they stopped advertising it is how it seemed:think: ). The Corvette though, doesn't NEED to be advertised. It's got over 50 years of solid reputation to sell it. The Mustang even has the same. The Camaro/Firebird SHOULD HAVE sold themselves, but while they were still being made, it would have been nice to actually see more than just the odd 1 sitting on a dealership lot:shrug:. The car's future was limited in that platform, and it wasn't going to last forever, that's fine, but it shouldn't have been left out in the dark.

And if the VICE PRESIDENT of GM can't "love" a car, why should the car buyer love it? At least now it seems there are high up people inside GM who are pushing HARD for this concept to be released;). THAT's what it should have had all along:cool:.

Kinda off topic, but did the 58 T-Bird come from the Futura?

OK, back on topic.

I think I can one-up you guy....:p

Harley Earl drove his '39(?) LaSabre concept car everyday for (I think) the better part of a year. Plus, it was one of the first true 'dream cars' to come out of detroit and was part of what started the autorama (autoshow) concept.

I believe that LaSabre is still all original and in great running condition.



Actually, you'll find that Harley Earl drove his 1939 Buick Y-Job everyday for some period of time. The Y-Job is credited as the first concept car.

He didn't build his Le Sabre concept until 1951.

side note: The Le Sabre had a rain sensing convertable top... not bad for 1951 technology... but I remember reading somewhere that this mechanism was damaged because the kids at the golf course would repeatedly dump water on Mr. Earl's car so they could see the top go up automatically, which wore out the unit prematurely...

The only other rain sensing conv. top I've heard of was a recent Lexus, and of course they advertised the feature as though it was a brand new idea.

Sorta the same thing they're doing with the headlights that swivel into turns... that feature was on some quirky european car back in the 50s or 60s....

...no, I'm not that old, but I read a lot of books

Sorta the same thing they're doing with the headlights that swivel into turns... that feature was on some quirky european car back in the 50s or 60s....

That would be the Tucker, wouldn't it? Not exactly European.

actually, having looked into it, the swivel headlight car was the Citroen DS, but it didn't get the swivel feature until the seventies...

Dunno about the Tucker...

Kinda off topic, but did the 58 T-Bird come from the Futura?

OK, back on topic.

Not really, but some design themes seem common.


Actually, you'll find that Harley Earl drove his 1939 Buick Y-Job everyday for some period of time. The Y-Job is credited as the first concept car.

He didn't build his Le Sabre concept until 1951.

D'oh! That's right! :thumb:

Sorta the same thing they're doing with the headlights that swivel into turns... that feature was on some quirky european car back in the 50s or 60s....


That would be Citroen. French.

However, the 1949 Tucker's center "cyclops" light swiveled with the steering direction.


Since we are on the subject of new innovation that's actually stolen from past rides, that since deleted optional opening convertible top over the cargo sections of GMC Envoys actually was 1st on a Studebaker wagon. Around 1963-65 if I'm not mistaken.

Since we are on the subject of new innovation that's actually stolen from past rides, that since deleted optional opening convertible top over the cargo sections of GMC Envoys actually was 1st on a Studebaker wagon. Around 1963-65 if I'm not mistaken.

And all the press going gaga over variable inlet turbochargers on the Acura RDX and 911 turbo. The "innovation" that was on Shelby Dodges in 1990 and is currently on the road in the Duramax and Powerstroke diesels. But if Acura did it, it's sure innovative!

Actually, you'll find that Harley Earl drove his 1939 Buick Y-Job everyday for some period of time. The Y-Job is credited as the first concept car.

He didn't build his Le Sabre concept until 1951.

side note: The Le Sabre had a rain sensing convertable top... not bad for 1951 technology... but I remember reading somewhere that this mechanism was damaged because the kids at the golf course would repeatedly dump water on Mr. Earl's car so they could see the top go up automatically, which wore out the unit prematurely...

The only other rain sensing conv. top I've heard of was a recent Lexus, and of course they advertised the feature as though it was a brand new idea.

Sorta the same thing they're doing with the headlights that swivel into turns... that feature was on some quirky european car back in the 50s or 60s....

...no, I'm not that old, but I read a lot of books

I remember the y-job, although I'm not sure whre it stood as far as cocnept cars and I didn't think Earl drove it that much. :thumb:

Well, I've seen more of them in the last couple years than I did of any F-body commercial pretty much after ~'92/'93 (basically, once the 4th-gen was debuted, they stopped advertising it is how it seemed:think: ). The Corvette though, doesn't NEED to be advertised. It's got over 50 years of solid reputation to sell it. The Mustang even has the same.

The fact that you said the Corvette doesnt "NEED" to be advertised and the Camaro did in the 4th Gen tells you something was seriously wrong with the PRODUCT. The Camaro was advertised. The reason the Vette sold was because it was a good product. Also saying that the Mustang has 50 years of solid reputation is pretty funny considering it came out in 64 as a 65 Mustang and the 67 Camaro two years later in 66. That also tells you it was the product. The Camaro was only 2 years short in terms of years in the market place. In terms of SOLID years, your absoloutely right GM needed to look back to the 1st gen when they built the car correctly.:mad:

Bottom line the car lost something. Well several things. Its all well and good to pull some from the Vette but Its a FOUR seater Pony car or small sports car like the 3 Series which is close to pony car if you think about it, and the Mustang which have SOLID years in the market place as you put it.

I remember the y-job, although I'm not sure whre it stood as far as cocnept cars and I didn't think Earl drove it that much. :thumb:

The Y job was actually GMs first concept car ever. Harley Earl did drive it as his personal car:

http://info.detnews.com/history/story/index.cfm?id=101&category=people

Hard to believe that Buick used to be the test bed for forward thinking ideas. Maybe the Enclave will signal a new era for Buick.

The fact that you said the Corvette doesnt "NEED" to be advertised and the Camaro did in the 4th Gen tells you something was seriously wrong with the PRODUCT. The Camaro was advertised. The reason the Vette sold was because it was a good product. Also saying that the Mustang has 50 years of solid reputation is pretty funny considering it came out in 64 as a 65 Mustang and the 67 Camaro two years later in 66. That also tells you it was the product. The Camaro was only 2 years short in terms of years in the market place. In terms of SOLID years, your absoloutely right GM needed to look back to the 1st gen when they built the car correctly.:mad:
You're right, there are/were some things lacking in the "product" of the 4th-gen, but for whatever reason, the Camaro was never treated with the same amount of praise as the Corvette even by GM themselves ... I guess having faith in your own product would help:rolleyes:. And for whatever reason, Camaros developed the "redneck/mullet" reputation over the years (don't know why, other than they were so much cheaper than 'Vettes) and THAT was the reputation that needed to be rid of from the 4th-gens (that proper advertising could have done). I mean, if you want to base it solely on PRODUCT, Corvettes are far from perfect too;). It's just the whole attitude around that car is, and always has been, different than the F-bodies:shrug:.

You're right, there are/were some things lacking in the "product" of the 4th-gen, but for whatever reason, the Camaro was never treated with the same amount of praise as the Corvette even by GM themselves ... I guess having faith in your own product would help:rolleyes:. And for whatever reason, Camaros developed the "redneck/mullet" reputation over the years (don't know why, other than they were so much cheaper than 'Vettes) and THAT was the reputation that needed to be rid of from the 4th-gens (that proper advertising could have done). I mean, if you want to base it solely on PRODUCT, Corvettes are far from perfect too;). It's just the whole attitude around that car is, and always has been, different than the F-bodies:shrug:.

I attribute the mullet stigma to the last time the car sold well in the 3rd gen when mullets were in style just as I attribute the VW bus to hippies. Its certainly not the veiw I have of the car. Vettes arent perfect but they are Chevys baby and rightfully so. They arent and were never compromises that the Camaros became. To me the Vette is GMs flagship not just Chevy.

Also to me the Camaro is more than a bloated cheap version of an enlongated Vette. Mustang stuck to the format. Camaro didnt. It was a 4 seater like the 3 series BMW at least originally. If you want a cheaper Vette great do something with Kappa or even shorten the Zeta II to Vette size remove the back seats give it to Pontiac call it Firebird :) I think they tried to make this car an immitation of something its not.

Im always shocked to see so much retro hate when I love the 69

Since the showing of the Camaro concept & also the other concepts in Jan the price of the Classic cars that were displayed in Detroit in Jan have started going through the roof. You can now NOT touch a 1st or early 2nd gen Camaro/Firebird for less than $20k no matter what the shape it is in. (at least not here in Washington state)

The prices of classics and muscle cars went through the roof way before the Camaro and Challenger concepts were shown. Heck, it could (and frequently is) be argued that the large surge in the classic and muscle car markets is the driving force behind the retro new car trend.

David

You're right, there are/were some things lacking in the "product" of the 4th-gen, but for whatever reason, the Camaro was never treated with the same amount of praise as the Corvette even by GM themselves ... I guess having faith in your own product would help:rolleyes:.

Corvette is a high profit machine. Though it adds barely a drop in the bucket for GM, the profit per car makes it something of a darling at GM, compared to the 4th gen which GM made almost as an obligation.

Still, consider that GM actually (and officially) pulled the plug on Corvette during early C6 development... multiple times. As the 4th gen went into production, GM was actually looking at shutting Corvette down.


And for whatever reason, Camaros developed the "redneck/mullet" reputation over the years (don't know why, other than they were so much cheaper than 'Vettes) and THAT was the reputation that needed to be rid of from the 4th-gens....

When the 4th gen came out, 3rd gens were very cheap, sporty, and plentiful and gained that pretty bad reputation. That rep didn't exist in the 1980s when those cars were new.

The also cheap & plentiful used Mustang 5.0s, on the other hand, were bought by highschoolers, backyard mechanics and rodders. Unfortunately, that drove 5.0 prices through the roof, making used Camaros seem even that much cheaper and won that reputation of being 'down market'.

When the 4th gen came out, 3rd gens were very cheap, sporty, and plentiful and gained that pretty bad reputation. That rep didn't exist in the 1980s when those cars were new.

The also cheap & plentiful used Mustang 5.0s, on the other hand, were bought by highschoolers, backyard mechanics and rodders. Unfortunately, that drove 5.0 prices through the roof, making used Camaros seem even that much cheaper and won that reputation of being 'down market'.

I know when I was in High School(graduated 1995) everyone was going after the 5.0's I much perfered short front overhang the look which was hard not liking fords. The only thing Camaro had comparable was the first gen. Also at the time I thought if you wanted a Chevy you looked for a 350 when most Camaros people I knew had were 305's or whatever and if you wanted a Mustang you wanted a 5.0 which you got in either the GT or the LX. LX being the base V8 car even gave you more than the GT and for a short while was insurable the same as LX the 4cl in Maryland, from what Ive heard from a friend who had an 87 5.0.

I would venture that much of the "redneck" association with f-bodies stems from the Smokey and the Bandit movies.

It sold a lot of f-bodies in the process.

The prices of classics and muscle cars went through the roof way before the Camaro and Challenger concepts were shown. Heck, it could (and frequently is) be argued that the large surge in the classic and muscle car markets is the driving force behind the retro new car trend.

David

Well its not true that they all go for 20k regaurdless of shape as I just sold my 69 for $9500 in May. It could be argued that it is driven by the retro trend but it doesnt hold any water with me at all. First, the main driving force for the price of the Classics are if you want a 69 there were 243,085 produced new. In 40 years that number has been greatly reduced by cars that have been destroyed in wrecks or totaly scrapped. Of those remaining cars you have to find someone who wants to actually sell theirs. Some Ive seen on Ebay have literally rusted in half. As in the front of the car and back were in two different places because they werent protected from water.

I would argue that retro cars drive the price of the classics DOWN. The reason being is that from my experience you have two types of classic car buyers. Collectors who want them original in as many ways as possible. Some of these people refuse to drive the cars more than necessary. The second type, thats me, is the people who demand that styling but couldnt care less if it is the original engine trans and would actually much perfer modern suspension and performance. Also this type would love to not have to worry about what milege would do to a classic car(admittedly some do not care what it does to them), if a classic car would even hold up to daily driving, or about the rust from one.

That means that a person like me would be more likely to favor the new retro cars than the classic cars like the one I just sold, taking away just a little bit from demand for classic cars and subsequently wear and tear on them. ;)

I agree with 5thgen69Camaro.

I too sold a '69 recently, got $12.5K for it, and it was a nice car. They aren't all Barrett-Jackson prices! I got a realistic price for the car and am happy with that.

I too am not truly into the classic cars as original, more for the styling and appeal of pre-emissions power. They are simple to work on, and relatively cheap to fix/repair/upgrade.

I'd rather have the '08, than a '69 if I could only have one. Why? Because the '69 would have to 'work' for me, meaning it'd have to be driveable for me to truly enjoy the experience. That means good brakes, good seats, air conditioning, decent handling, etc. While I didn't expect it to be a daily driver, it isn't much fun to own a car like that and not even be able to drive it out of town for the weekend or to/from work on a nice day for fear of traffic. The best I could do with my '69 was evening rips around the neighborhood, an occassional blast down the freeway, or a nervous trip to the next town for cruising and shows...after all, it was a nearly 40 year old car! Well, that and the roll-cage and 4.56 gears and tunnel ram didn't help! ;)

Give me the style of the 1st gens, and the daily convenience of a modern car, and I'm all over it.

I think a lot of guys are looking for that style, that essence from the glory days. If we can get that from these new cars, then we don't all have to pine for that hemi cuda, boss 'stang or ZL1 camaro we'll never afford.

I would have loved to find a 69 Camaro for that price that isnt rusted out, broken, or had a troubled past.

Camaro concept gives you just that, the design of the first gen with the modern advancments of a proper sports coupe with a powerful engine.