Newly Purchased HHR Review - By an Engineer (Me...)

Wifey took possession of her HHR on Friday evening, we drove to Canada and back on Saturday and putted around town a little bit buying a futon that day, and then putted around some more on Sunday, so I've got... oh... 500 miles or so behind the wheel of it and can do something of a review now...



Dealership Experience:

All in all, a good experience. Bill Fox Chevrolet in Rochester Hills, Michigan sold us the car. 0% interest over 72 months didn't hurt either. I usually won't take a car on a term that long, but hey... if there's no interest, why not? We usually pay ahead anyway.

The saleswoman was very busy, Bill Fox has sold... get this... something around 220 cars in the past WEEK. That's WEEK, not MONTH. They financing gal was very professional, and very nice too. Didn't even try to sell me Scotchgard for my already Scotchgarded seats (they all come with Scotchgard or an equivalent from the factory, don't waste your money...).

The saleswoman also was prepared to do the "this is how everything in the car works" spiel (showing us how to use the radio and such...) but I basically told her we wouldn't need that since... well... I know GM vehicles like the back of my hand.


And now on to the car itself...

2006 Chevrolet HHR 2LT, Sport Red Metallic
Medium Gray Interior
Engine: 2.4 Ecotec VVT 4 cyl
Power & Torque: 172hp @ 6000rpm, 162 ft. lbs. torque @ 5000rpm
Transmission: 4spd Automatic
Fuel Economy: 22 mpg city / 30 mpg highway
Fuel Range: ~420 miles
Fuel Type: Regular Unleaded
Curb Weight: ~3200 lbs.
Warranty: 3yrs/36,000 miles


Engine/Transmission/Economy:
Power is decent. Enough for passing, won't win many drag races, but isn't supposed to. There's no buzziness beyond what's expected from any 4 cylinder. Zero vibration in the passenger compartment.

Transmission is typical GM - absolutely seamless, can't even tell it's there.

Fuel economy is very good, the 400 mile range is nice.

Remote starter is WAAAAY cool! Especially in Michigan where it gets cold!!!


Exterior:
Paint was flawless, almost no orange peel. Paint match between the plastic bumpers and the steel panels is excellent.

3.5mm panels gaps... 3.5mm!?!?! That's almost unheard of on a mid/lower end car in most cases. Rivals Cadillac, made the RX300 it was parked next to at lunch one day look like it had been assembled out of Tinkertoys by preschoolers.

Chrome 17" wheels are very nice, along with the chrome accents all over the body.

Panel splits are... well... different, not bad - just different. The styling forces panel splits you wouldn't normally see. Takes the eye a little bit to adjust to.

Exterior trim was all well assembled, tight gaps. Only issue there is that the top of the windshield has no seal - meaning that the trough formed by the windshield there is exposed. Usually a no-no - not only from an appearance standpoint, but also from a noise standpoint.

The electronic latch for the hatchback release is a nice touch.

The chrome trim and gold Bowtie on the hatch look very nice.

The apperance of the chrome grill is excellent.

The windshield wipers have a nice, finished and styled appearance and there's a rear window wiper with a washer unit. Nice touch.

Door handles are solid feeling with little or any free play, the hinges and check system are dead silent.

The doors were adjusted correctly - no bad gaps and they close flush.

The hood itself is a sterling example of how to manage gaps and flushes in the area of hood to fender and hood to fascia gaps and flushes. In a word, design them so you don't have to manage them and they still look good. Excellent work.


Interior:

Initially, your fist impression is that the interior is very small, but once seated it is very, very well packaged and comfortable - much roomier than your eye tells you it is.

There's plenty of leg and shoulder room up front - even for me (small I ain't...), and plenty of leg room and shoulder room in the rear. My knees don't hit anything.

Seats were comfortable and supportive even on a long ride like we took. Not much shifting around to get comfortable on a long trip (that's a clear sign of a good seat). Great adjustment range fore/aft. The armrests were useful.

The seating position is fairly vertical, something like a truck or true SUV. It has a 6-way power driver's seat, a manual recliner on both seats and adjustable lumbar on both seats. The seat cover material is a very nice cloth - I prefer leather, wifey likes cloth. Leather is available.

There's a passive occupant sensor system for the passenger seat - if there's no occupant or a small occupant there, the air bags don't go "BOOM" during a collision. Excellent.

The folding seats are very nice and easy to use - you have to remove the head restraints, but that's no biggy. We fit a 6'6" futon (disassembled in the box) and mattress in the back with the end sticking out the hatch a bit. There are enough tie-downs available to get the job done.

Brake and throttle feel is excellent. The dead pedal isn't very useful for me, but it's there. I imagine I could adjust the seating position to make it feel better, but didn't fiddle with it to do it.

Nicely, I don't end up having to rest my right leg on the edge of the console - which is terribly uncomfortable on long rides.

Our vehicle has the Pioneer sound system in it, a 6-disc changer, Ipod compatibility and XM Radio. I have not yet attempted to blow my own head off with the radio volume-wise, so I can't evaluate the system at high power, but at the settings it was at it sounded very, very good. XM Radio is WAAAY cool. At ~$10/mth, I'm sold for life. The radio itself is simple to use and the controls are intuitive.

Fit in the interior is generally very good. Finish is excellent.

The gauges are well laid out and nice looking with their chrome accents. The Driver Information Center provided good information and was easy to use.

The High-Beam switch is now the European/Japanese "push forward" for brights style - which I don't like (minor gripe here), I prefer the GM standard "pull back for brights" style - but understand why it was done. "Flash to Pass" is done by pulling back on the stalk.

Window regulator switches are on the console center stack... meh... but there's isn't much room to put them on the door panels, so I get it.

Shifter is very nice. It's solid feeling. The shifter is well placed, and all the controls are easily reached.

The armrests are nice and solid also - very little cross-car free movement.

The parking brake is kinda buried under the armrests - but won't get used anyway (it's an automatic) so that's OK.

Two available cupholders in the center console - plenty cupholders enough.

There's a power port on the center stack, might consider adding another there.

There's a nice, covered, latching cubby hole in the center of the instrument panel on the top surface - good idea. The glove box is large and useful.

Almost all of the little cubby holes and nooks and crannies have a removeable and washable rubber liner - which is very nice. Makes cleaning them a snap.

YAY! There are retaining hooks for the floor mats in the front!!! No more "Creeping Floormat Syndrome"... except in the rear...

ZERO exposed fasteners, anywhere in the (easily visible) interior - very, very nice! Where there are fasteners, they're hidden by nice plastic covers which are countersunk into the trim panel - EXCELLENT!

An armrest cushion on the door panels would be nice, but they're still comfortable.

The HVAC system is relatively quiet, the A/C blows cold and the controls themselves are easily understood, have a nice feel, and have nice chrome accents.

The storage system in the rear compartment is very useful, there are about a half dozen ways to arrange it, and it came with a cargo net - all nice features.

And next... Here comes the constructive criticism...

Nice review! The more I see those things around the more I like them.

The wife LOVES them. Not sure how the backseat would do with 2 babyseats though.... (plus a 6 year old as well)

CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM TIME:

First Features and Content...

Engine/Transmission:

1) Needs a 5spd automatic, the benefit to fuel economy and performance is undeniable. I know that essentially the HHR is a Cobalt from a powertrain standpoint, and that a 5spd automatic isn't available yet there, but it needs one - 2007 is a year too late, don't wait - get it done.

2) Howza 'bout a 220-260hp blown/turbo HHR SS? They're selling like hotcakes right now, but in a year or so that'll cool down - which is the perfect time to bring out a fire-breathing performance model.

3) E85. Must have E85 compatibility. Hopefully it is coming soon. Hybrids suck, E85 is the future.


Chassis:

1) ABS should be STANDARD across the board. No ifs, ands or buts. I disagree STRONGLY with the marketing decision that said "the others charge for it as an option, so we will too". Make ABS standard and then tell the world through advertising which car companies DON'T have standard ABS - with the not-so-subtle hint that they don't care about safety or their customers, and they're just rying to make a buck. Hammer the point home.

2) Include traction control in the 2LT package. The car is hot from a sales standpoint, option up the 2LT's and increase your margin.

3) For the "SS", if one is ever done, rear discs are a necessity. The rear drums on the current models are perfectly adequate - no sense in making them all disc/disc.


Interior:

1) Color selection... Basically every HHR you see on a dealer lot is built with a Medium Gray interior. The Cashmere and Ebony are rarer than hen's teeth. The Gray itself is... well... gray... and shockingly inoffensive... which is the point I guess.

2) How about some body color accents on the interior? It looks good, but a little more jazzing up wouldn't hurt.


Body:

Erm... I got nothing to suggest. It's terrific. The color selection is great, the fit and finish is great, the styling is great... just a home run all the way around.

EXCEPT - a design like this gets ~5 years of market viability before it looks old. The PT Cruiser is the perfect example of a styling home run that gets tired and old appearing after 5 years. Sales then slump. If there is to be a restyling for this vehicle, it needs to launch no later than ~4 years from now. A mere "REFRESH" WILL NOT be adequate.

Take heed - the Camaro design ALSO only has 5 years of viability before the inevitable slump happens. The restyling has to be timed to happen in the 6th year and the car needs to look radically different after it.



Now, here are the non-content or feature related issues with the car we own. Understand clearly that I am a HYPER-CRITICAL car owner because of my background - many of you would NEVER notice this stuff unless I pointed it out to you item by item. These are true issues that need to be addressed to make a world-class car:

1) NVH: There's an intake whistle on ours. I'll track it down and kill it, but it's there and it bugs me... I shouldn't have to track it down and kill it, it simply shouldn't be there in the first place.

2) NVH: There's a bit of wind noise. Not horrible, but it's there. I'm not good at finding wind noise issues. Could be a door seal compression issue on the driver's side, or the previously mentioned windshield trough.

3) Interior Fit and Finish: Gap (rat-hole - about 1mm) between A pillar trim and headliner at the corner. INEXCUSABLE. Dammit, I've been telling the world about these for YEARS and they STILL GET SCREWED UP. This is Rookie Engineering 101 stuff. F-R-U-S-T-R-A-T-I-N-G.

4) Interior Fit and Finish: Windshield fritter and the edge of the A pillar trim show an inconsistent measurement both when compared side to side (passenger to driver's side) and on the individual sides. The A pillar trim does not follow the same line as the fritter - we're not talking about a small amount here - it looks like a 5-10mm mismatch from one side to the other.

5) Interior Fit and Finish: The door pull plastic panel (which also contains the power outside rearview mirror switches) doesn't sit flush relative to the door panel surface. Another no-brainer fit that got screwed up. Grrrr...

6) Interior Fit and Finish: The rear hatch interior trim is designed to sit flush against the rear hatch steel inner panel. It doesn't, and none of them ever do. The fix? A 3-5mm trough, much like a stamping bead, should be stamped into the rear hatch inner panel and the trim panel designed so that the edge sits in that trough - any gap there is then hidden, along with any flash along the parting line of that interior trim panel. Cost? One more die... MAYBE... you could probably just modify the existing die set to do it.

7) Interior Fit and Finish: The exit hole for the door lock pull needs a ferrule. There door lock pull is nicely chromed, and then exits through this nasty hole in the door trim panel. There's flash on the hole and door lock pull isn't centered. A chrome ferrule fixes both of those problems and looks retro and cool while doing it.

8) Interior/Exterior Fit and Finish: Speaking of fritter, narrow the windshield and backlight fritter up. Fritter is not cool, it's not retro, it looks awful and the vehicle has a small windshield and backlight in the first place - viewable area is at a premium.

9) Interior Fit and Finish: Either pay the money to chrome the door striker or finish it in a dull zinc (which all the nuts used to attach the door hardware are finished in - something like Magni). It looks like an afterthought right now. A "sorta-shiny" part on a car that's got lots of chrome. DO NOT attempt to use the bright zinc that's being used right now - bright zinc, no matter how good, DOES NOT look like chrome. Never has, never will, forever and ever and ever, AMEN.

10) Exterior Fit and Finish: Close out the top of the windshield with a seal or something.

11) Exterior Fit and Finish: Rusty rotors and/or drums are yucky - and the HHR's rotors and drums are already rusty ON THE DEALER'S LOT. This is an endemic GM problem - even Cadillacs have it. There has to be a way to stop this inexpensively... I know this because I went out into our parking lot and looked at a couple of dozen cars. BMW? Rusty. Audi? Rusty. Ford? Rusty.
Chrysler and Jeep? NOT RUSTY after better than 50,000 miles of service in some cases. Now, if those DCX knuckleheads can do it right, GM can. Go to a Chrysler dealer, buy a couple of Pacifica rotors and analyze the coating/plating and where and how it is applied. Then copy it.


Welp, that's it so far. I'll report back if I discover any more or forgot anything.

What were the panel gaps on the RX300 that made it look so bad? Is the HHR 3.5mm all the way around or just best-case?

Google RX300 panel gaps and then do the same for HHR panel gaps.

It could just be default editorial biases or something but you'll be hard pressed to find anything but praise for the RX - HHR comments range from 'bad' to 'better'.

I certainly haven't gotten out there and measured them - just something I've noticed in general reading. I know on the RX330 loaner I had (which I was not impressed with, but for reasons other than panel gaps - mainly centered around the crappy drivetrain which was fixed with the RX350) seemed to have wider panel gaps in certain areas and ultra tight ones in others. The difference seemed to be in the areas that would face a good amount of wind, the gaps were a bit wider, but used some sort of rubber seals to compensate. I'm not sure if the seals were there to compensate for the gaps or if the gaps were left a bit wider to allow for the seals.:shrug:

What were the panel gaps on the RX300 that made it look so bad? Is the HHR 3.5mm all the way around or just best-case?

Google RX300 panel gaps and then do the same for HHR panel gaps.

It could just be default editorial biases or something but you'll be hard pressed to find anything but praise for the RX - HHR comments range from 'bad' to 'better'.

I certainly haven't gotten out there and measured them - just something I've noticed in general reading. I know on the RX330 loaner I had (which I was not impressed with, but for reasons other than panel gaps - mainly centered around the crappy drivetrain which was fixed with the RX350) seemed to have wider panel gaps in certain areas and ultra tight ones in others. The difference seemed to be in the areas that would face a good amount of wind, the gaps were a bit wider, but used some sort of rubber seals to compensate. I'm not sure if the seals were there to compensate for the gaps or if the gaps were left a bit wider to allow for the seals.:shrug:

The RX300's I've measured is designed to be 5mm all the way around. But even then, they sucked. Under or overflush and inconsistent.

I whipped out a scale (called a "ruler" by most folks) AND MEASURED THEM.

In true trucks, the GMT-900's have a world better exterior fit and finish than the RX300.

The RX300's I've measured is designed to be 5mm all the way around. But even then, they sucked. Under or overflush and inconsistent.

I whipped out a scale (called a "ruler" by most folks) AND MEASURED THEM.

In true trucks, the GMT-900's have a world better exterior fit and finish than the RX300.

I didn't ask how you measured them - though I've heard you use that line countless times in response to that question so it's probably just a knee-jerk reactional line for you.:p

Granted the RX300 came out in 1998 and hasn't been made since 2002, its chassis dates back to the 1992 Toyota Camry. The RX330 updated the chassis to an extended version (similar to the Avalon) of the 02+ model year Camry. Now the 07 model year Camry comes out with a significantly revised chassis but we won't see the RX take advantage of the new architecture until about the 09 model year, though it's already using the drastically improved powertrain.

I didn't ask how you measured them - though I've heard you use that line countless times in response to that question so it's probably just a knee-jerk reactional line for you.:p

Granted the RX300 came out in 1998 and hasn't been made since 2002, its chassis dates back to the 1992 Toyota Camry. The RX330 updated the chassis to an extended version (similar to the Avalon) of the 02+ model year Camry. Now the 07 model year Camry comes out with a significantly revised chassis but we won't see the RX take advantage of the new architecture until about the 09 model year, though it's already using the drastically improved powertrain.

I'll take a look at an RX350 or whatever it's called at the first available opportunity.

My guess? From what I've seen on the HHR, the Lexus has got some steep competition in panel fits... at roughly... oh... half the price?


PS:

My scale > Anybody's eyeball. :p

My guess? From what I've seen on the HHR, the Lexus has got some steep competition in panel fits... at roughly... oh... half the price?

Because panel gaps are the #1 measure of vehicle quality and engineering and thus the #1 measure of value in price?:p

Because panel gaps are the #1 measure of vehicle quality and engineering and thus the #1 measure of value in price?:p

Welp, if the Lexus can't put a $40,000 body together better than Chevrolet can put a (usually) sub-$20,000 body together, time to give credit where credit is due...

Data bothers the Import-Lovers for some reason... odd.

Welp, if the Lexus can't put a $40,000 body together better than Chevrolet can put a (usually) sub-$20,000 body, time to give credit where credit is due...

Again, go check out the current models instead of comparing a 5 year newer vehicle, then I'll give credit where credit is due.

Maybe I should give the 13k dollar Toyota Yaris credit for having a sturdier arm rest than the 60k dollar Caddy Escalade?:p

Or shall we just realize that there are countless measures of quality, some not even quantifiable?:p

Again, go check out the current models instead of comparing a 5 year newer vehicle, then I'll give credit where credit is due.

Maybe I should give the 13k dollar Toyota Yaris credit for having a sturdier arm rest than the 60k dollar Caddy Escalade?:p

Or shall we just realize that there are countless measures of quality, some not even quantifiable?:p

"Cry havoc and let slip the Lexus Nut-Hugger Excuse-O-Matic!!!"

"Cry havoc and let slip the Lexus Nut-Hugger Excuse-O-Matic!!!"

So far we have determined that based on your data, the 06 HHR gaps are 3.5mm and very even compared to the 99 RX300 which has, by your data, 5mm gaps and is very uneven compared to the HHR.
The significance of this discovery to me is about as significant as discovering that modern day family sedans are able to hang with LT1 Z28s and even surpass. It's interesting to think about but has very little significance in the current day marketplace.:shrug:

I can't imagine the reaction I'd get on here if I went and grabbed, say, a 99 Caddy Catera, Deville, Eldorado, Escalade, or Seville and started comparing them to a modern day Toyota of half the price and chose to focus strictly on one particular measure of quality - panel gaps or whatever else I chose to focus on.

I'd get reemed for making such a stretch of a comparison.

Nice review.

Thanks for buying from an American car company instead of Toyota.

I'd get reemed for making such a stretch of a comparison.

No, you'd get "reamed"... at least initially...

But, let's say you offered this point and backed it up... well then, a reasonable person would have to say that 3.5mm gaps are darned impressive... especially in light of the 5.0mm gaps that are so common now.

Then, a resonable person would also have to point that not only are these 3.5mm gaps, but this car is a sub-$20,000 Chevrolet based off of an entry-level Chevrolet (Cobalt).

Pretty cool, all the way around. Great attention to detail, particularly on a relatively inexpensive car, and concurrently very impressive when compared to what many of the unwashed out there consider a benchmark (a Lexus) because they're... well... dumb.

BTW, the RX300 was sold new up until 2003:

http://www.lotpro.com/cars/2003/lexus/rx_300

...and had you parked by anything else that day this thread wouldnt be half as long now.

...and had you parked by anything else that day this thread wouldnt be half as long now.

I musta hit a nerve... it's like I punched his mom or something...

thanks for the review, debating getting one when I sell my truck.

I musta hit a nerve... it's like I punched his mom or something...

As soon as I read "Lexus," I immediately imagined a certain board member twitching and cursing, followed by a grand mal seizure and the obligatory head explosion.

All hail Toyota, our great and wonderful overlords!

Seriously, though, most of the new GM cars look really good in terms of panel gap, from HHR to Impala. It's something you can notice just driving by on the road. They may still have a ways to go, but there's been undeniable progress.

Pacer, you do seem a bit hypercritical on HHR's interior gaps.

Is there any other vehicle of similar price and content that is better?

Point: for the price, isn't this one of the best assembled vehicles around???

(yes, I'm a bit of an HHR fan. ;) )

CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM TIME:
Howza 'bout a 220-260hp blown/turbo HHR SS? They're selling like hotcakes right now, but in a year or so that'll cool down - which is the perfect time to bring out a fire-breathing performance model.

It already appears that an HHR SS is coming...

http://news.windingroad.com/?p=129

Pacer, you do seem a bit hypercritical on HHR's interior gaps.

Is there any other vehicle of similar price and content that is better?

Point: for the price, isn't this one of the best assembled vehicles around???

(yes, I'm a bit of an HHR fan. ;) )

Hi Guy!

Long time no writey...

Anyhoo...

Let me address your first question first:
Price is not an indicator of good design practice in this instance.

What I mean is this:
It takes no more money to design and build an A pillar to headliner interface properly (i.e. no rat hole) than it does to screw it up. It's a systemic failure at GM.

Where GM's system continually fails here is related to how they specify and track that interface from design to production. The "Bill of Process" documentation and the specification processes are inadequate to the need.

The proof of the above statement?

I just bought one with an issue there.



Now for the second question:

The interior is very, very good with regard to it's price point, and it may very well be one of the best assembled vehicles around.



I just want it to be indisputably the best.

Congrats on the new HHR.

I rented a white one with tan leather to go drive to PA and buy my Z28. What a joy to drive! I'm not a fan of 4-cyl's mind you. But the HHR is peppy enough to get around, and the engine is very, very smooth. Excellent interior ergonomics (I loved the little LED throwing soft light down on the HVAC cluster at night!). I see why the HHR is a star for Chevy right now.

I love it when people, rather than eh, ya know, discuss the points that have been made, attack the poster of those points, instead. It's an entertaining and very predictable defensive reaction that if I sunk down to... I would receive even more critisism than I already do. But no, I try to have an honest and logical conversation about the subject and instead am subjected to personal scrutiny? :no:
I am no doubt playing the devil's advocate here, and in playing the devil's advocate, guess what you primarily end up doing? Saying what nobody else wants to say. Guess what nobody else on this board (well, mostly nobody else) wants to say? That's right... anything that defends a non-GM product. Especially anything from Toyota.:shrug:

I might ask you consider that the poster of this thread has a habit of making comparisons that make almost no sense. Like comparing a 3/4-ton diesel pickup truck to a Tacoma, or in this case comparing a 4 to 8 year old entry level luxury sport utility's panel gaps as the primary measure of assembly quality next to a brand new entry level mainstream vehicle.
I just don't understand where the point is.
GM has improved their panels gaps so well that they not only have bested their own cadillac brand of years ago but have bested other brands as well? OK.;)

No, you'd get "reamed"... at least initially...

But, let's say you offered this point and backed it up... well then, a reasonable person would have to say that 3.5mm gaps are darned impressive... especially in light of the 5.0mm gaps that are so common now.

Then, a resonable person would also have to point that not only are these 3.5mm gaps, but this car is a sub-$20,000 Chevrolet based off of an entry-level Chevrolet (Cobalt).

Pretty cool, all the way around. Great attention to detail, particularly on a relatively inexpensive car, and concurrently very impressive when compared to what many of the unwashed out there consider a benchmark (a Lexus) because they're... well... dumb.

BTW, the RX300 was sold new up until 2003:

http://www.lotpro.com/cars/2003/lexus/rx_300

I said they stopped being made in 2002 - as in the actual year production stopped, not the model year.

Nice review. How did you like the seats?
Did you still like them after your 500 mile drive?

I sat in one at the auto show but I wasn't to impressed with the seats.

I will be buying a new chevy next year. My choices are currently impala or hhr. Need to go drive both. :)

Nice review. How did you like the seats?
Did you still like them after your 500 mile drive?

I sat in one at the auto show but I wasn't to impressed with the seats.

I will be buying a new chevy next year. My choices are currently impala or hhr. Need to go drive both. :)

Seats were good as far as I am concerned - even after 500 miles.

The Impala is a VERY impressive machine. Less money than the HHR, and better fuel economy. Much less than a Camry or Accord - and a higher content, bigger, more comfortable, flat-out better value in a car.

My dad just bought one, and I showed one to wifey with a twinkle in my eye, but she was having none of it...

She wanted an HHR, and that's what she got.


Heck, I offered her a CTS...
She still wanted the HHR and even told a Cadillac dealer that.
The Cadillac salesman was so stunned when he heard her say it that had absolutely no reply... left a car salesman speechless.

She still wanted the HHR and even told a Cadillac dealer that.
The Cadillac salesman was so stunned when he heard her say it that had absolutely no reply... left a car salesman speechless.

In my experience, women often do that - they sink their hooks into what they want, often times based purely on looks and a few superficial details like placement of vanity mirrors, cup holders, and storage bins, and then they won't let go.

By the time my mom decided she wanted an '04 Toyota Camry, a car dealer could have walked up to her and my dad and offered her a car twice the price and twice as nice for half off and she still wouldn't even have done more than glanced at the car and said 'nope... don't want it'. lol

My wife's latest car shopping expedition left her looking for three primary things in a vehicle: maroon paint, the more sunglass holders the better, especially if they were in an overhead console type setup, and the more cupholders the better.:(

My wife's latest car shopping expedition left her looking for three primary things in a vehicle: maroon paint, the more sunglass holders the better, especially if they were in an overhead console type setup, and the more cupholders the better.:(http://www.sabinas.com/ACTIVE%20INV/S2931.jpg

http://www.sabinas.com/ACTIVE%20INV/S2931.jpg

Perfect.

Did someone say we should "knee a jerk"? :D


Nice write-up Pacer. While the HHR is more of an economy car, by the time you load up the LT2, its well over 20k and should have better fit and finish. I could except huge gaps on an Aveo though. ;) Still, I wish it were a little roomier... about the size of the "old" S-10 Blazer would be good imho.

Pacer, I wonder about the statement you made about rusty rotors. I'm no engineer and certainly no expert, but all cars that I've seen end up with rust on the rotors when they aren't driven and kept outside. The connection I've drawn is that water + rotor = instant rust on the surface.

Now you say that you've seen Jeeps where this doesn't occur? Could you offer an explanation?

Pacer, I wonder about the statement you made about rusty rotors. I'm no engineer and certainly no expert, but all cars that I've seen end up with rust on the rotors when they aren't driven and kept outside. The connection I've drawn is that water + rotor = instant rust on the surface.

Now you say that you've seen Jeeps where this doesn't occur? Could you offer an explanation?

The center hub of the rotor is plated...

With what, I do not yet know... but it's better than what GM is using.

Zinc.

The center hub of the rotor is plated...

With what, I do not yet know... but it's better than what GM is using.

Pace, what is the range on your Remote Start? Mine's not crap, not enough to give it a reasonable head start at cooling off the car. 50-70 feet max for me :( .

As soon as I read "Lexus," I immediately imagined a certain board member twitching and cursing, followed by a grand mal seizure and the obligatory head explosion.

All hail Toyota, our great and wonderful overlords!

Seriously, though, most of the new GM cars look really good in terms of panel gap, from HHR to Impala. It's something you can notice just driving by on the road. They may still have a ways to go, but there's been undeniable progress.


well........just passed some iced tea thru my nose!

Good one!

3.5mm is corp. standard on all new vehicles (meaning old architecture will still have larger gaps). (except Corvette .... dark colors in Mesa on a 110 degree day means the doors expand and you can't open 'em! --- so the gaps are larger on Corvette.

PacerX -- again, a great job -- and the issues are duly noted!

well........just passed some iced tea thru my nose!

Good one!

3.5mm is corp. standard on all new vehicles (meaning old architecture will still have larger gaps). (except Corvette ....
And consequently XLR.

In my experience, women often do that - they sink their hooks into what they want, often times based purely on looks and a few superficial details like placement of vanity mirrors, cup holders, and storage bins, and then they won't let go.


Women tend to judge things on practicality... how useful things are. The HHR is more useful than a CTS. Her priority seems like it was based on what a vehicle could haul, and that's what she chose.

SUV & crossover sales are driven by women, either as buyer or head influencer. :)

Zinc.

There are a bazillion different types of zinc plating.

I'm looking for the actual specification.

I wonder if Magni 565 would work...

Pace, what is the range on your Remote Start? Mine's not crap, not enough to give it a reasonable head start at cooling off the car. 50-70 feet max for me :( .

I do not know...

Hmmm...

I imagine wifey will be happy if she doesn't have to actually go outside in January to start it, so I'm guessing 30-40 feet would be good.

3.5mm is corp. standard on all new vehicles (meaning old architecture will still have larger gaps).

I was very impressed in seeing my first real GMT-900 at the unveiling of the Camaro. Outstanding job.

Yes...

I'm a bit odd...

There's a Camaro unveiling and I'm looking at panel gaps on a truck.



PacerX -- again, a great job -- and the issues are duly noted!

Thank you, Sir!

Tell everyone within earshot what a great job they did!

or head influencer. :)

Well now...

There's a couple of ways to interpret that one Guy...

Well now...

There's a couple of ways to interpret that one Guy...

Ahhh....... You caught that? :lol: ;)

Ahhh....... You caught that? :lol: ;)

That's me...

"Perceptive"

The center hub of the rotor is plated...

With what, I do not yet know... but it's better than what GM is using.

Go back far enough, and you'll find that GM has used e-coated rotor hats in certain applications where the rotors were visible (Tri-9 Impala SS), and non-coated hats in similar applications where the rotors were hidden by the wheels (Caprice). Odd that they didn't continue that practice forward, but I'm guessing it looked like an attractive cost-cutting target to someone in Purchasing.

Go back far enough, and you'll find that GM has used e-coated rotor hats in certain applications where the rotors were visible (Tri-9 Impala SS), and non-coated hats in similar applications where the rotors were hidden by the wheels (Caprice). Odd that they didn't continue that practice forward, but I'm guessing it looked like an attractive cost-cutting target to someone in Purchasing.

The Rotors on my Wife's Grand Prix are rusting, and it really does take away from the looks of the car.


Women tend to judge things on practicality... how useful things are. The HHR is more useful than a CTS. Her priority seems like it was based on what a vehicle could haul, and that's what she chose.

SUV & crossover sales are driven by women, either as buyer or head influencer. :)

If my wife had her way i'd be in a Yukon playing soccer dad. I'm pulling rank on this one and getting a truck. Even though she denies it, I know she wants a Hemi too.

3.5mm is corp. standard on all new vehicles (meaning old architecture will still have larger gaps). (except Corvette .... dark colors in Mesa on a 110 degree day means the doors expand and you can't open 'em! --- so the gaps are larger on Corvette.



I still have my black 85 Fiero and if it were not for the gaps it would be the same deal.

You really can hear the body pop and crack as it expands when you pull it out in the sun.

Sheet molded panels have a lot of good points but fit is not one of them.

And know we know why they are making metal Saturns.

You know, not to be an ass, but I saw one of these HHRs today and I took a close look at it. I didn't find the gaps to be especially small (I could see the hinge and bolts through the seam at the front of the door). I also noticed some variation in the gaps on each side of the hatch.

Now, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't complain about them, overall the fit appeared to be decent...and better than typical GM. I just don't know if I'd be making a big deal about how good the gaps were.

Maybe they send the factory rejects to NJ. :)

Come to south florida, where brake rotors are rust-orange by the time your work shift is over...

Now that you've had it over a week, what kind of fuel mileage are you getting out of it?

If my wife had her way i'd be in a Yukon playing soccer dad. I'm pulling rank on this one and getting a truck. Even though she denies it, I know she wants a Hemi too.

:lol:

Now that you've had it over a week, what kind of fuel mileage are you getting out of it?

The displayed economy on the DIC runs right about 24.5 mpg - that's kind of a combined city and highway (her going back and forth to work).

We took a long trip into Ohio last week, and it knocked down roughly 29 in all highway driving @ 70-75mph.

The displayed economy on the DIC runs right about 24.5 mpg - that's kind of a combined city and highway (her going back and forth to work).

We took a long trip into Ohio last week, and it knocked down roughly 29 in all highway driving @ 70-75mph.
Thanks. My wife and I are considering an "economy" car for daily commuting and I'm trying to steer her towards the HHR. :D

Thanks. My wife and I are considering an "economy" car for daily commuting and I'm trying to steer her towards the HHR. :D

You're welcome.

You'll sacrifice a few MPG relative to a Cobalt or Malibu, run fairly even with an Impala.

It's probably more useful than any of the above from a "hauling stuff" standpoint... except for MAYBE the Impala... That thing has a HUGE trunk.

You're welcome.

You'll sacrifice a few MPG relative to a Cobalt or Malibu, run fairly even with an Impala.

It's probably more useful than any of the above from a "hauling stuff" standpoint... except for MAYBE the Impala... That thing has a HUGE trunk.
Would you say it hauls better than a Malibu MaXX?

Would you say it hauls better than a Malibu MaXX?

Depends on what you're really hauling, but I'd have to go with "yes" on that one.

When are you going to review the trains that you drive? ;)

You'll sacrifice a few MPG relative to a Cobalt or Malibu, run fairly even with an Impala.

It's probably more useful than any of the above from a "hauling stuff" standpoint... except for MAYBE the Impala... That thing has a HUGE trunk.
I'd actually lean towards the Impala myself, except we rented one a few months back and my wife wasn't enthusiastic about its styling. I loved it from a daily driver/cruiser standpoint.

With gas at $3.30+ per gallon here in the East Bay, the Tahoe just isn't cutting it as a daily driver at 15mpg average. I was able to talk my wife into us using BART (transit) rather than driving the 22 mi round trip to Oakland each day, but I know she's miserable and would rather we drove. (We work for the same company so carpooling either way would be in.) I really don't need a hauler (I already have the Tahoe). I need something cheap that gets good gas mileage and that my wife wouldn't fear for her life to drive on the freeway. (That knocks out the Aveo. :D )

At this point I need to sell a few cars first, but I see an economy car in my future. (That doesn't mean I'm ruling out a new Camaro at some point. ;) )

I'd actually lean towards the Impala myself, except we rented one a few months back and my wife wasn't enthusiastic about its styling. I loved it from a daily driver/cruiser standpoint.

With gas at $3.30+ per gallon here in the East Bay, the Tahoe just isn't cutting it as a daily driver at 15mpg average. I was able to talk my wife into us using BART (transit) rather than driving the 22 mi round trip to Oakland each day, but I know she's miserable and would rather we drove. (We work for the same company so carpooling either way would be in.) I really don't need a hauler (I already have the Tahoe). I need something cheap that gets good gas mileage and that my wife wouldn't fear for her life to drive on the freeway. (That knocks out the Aveo. :D )

At this point I need to sell a few cars first, but I see an economy car in my future. (That doesn't mean I'm ruling out a new Camaro at some point. ;) )

that's why I got my wife a Miata so she can carpool with our daughter at peak hours. If I was in your situation, I would not hesitate to get a 2-seater for daily carpooling. my wife and I didn't find the "smaller-sized" Miata a danger among other vehicles, so maybe that's the deal clincher.

I even rode my cruiser especially during peak hours so I can use the carpool lanes and fastrack my journey lane-sharing.

we are now relocated to Tampa and gas has kinda gone up a little. we're now $2.83 for standard unleaded.

that's why I got my wife a Miata so she can carpool with our daughter at peak hours. If I was in your situation, I would not hesitate to get a 2-seater for daily carpooling. my wife and I didn't find the "smaller-sized" Miata a danger among other vehicles, so maybe that's the deal clincher.

I tried talking her into the Sky or Solstice. She actually wants a BMW 3-series convertible. (I'd rather drive a Mustang. :D) I'm typically brand loyal and would like to stay GM, but am weighing in all options. ;)

When are you going to review the trains that you drive? ;)

They're all poweered by GM too!

GM Electromotive, that is!

http://www.emdiesels.com/en/home/


Welll.... they got sold.... that sucks...



GM used to own Terex too...

They got sold... that sucks too...


And Republic Aircraft...

They got sold too... that sucks...


Allison is probably next.

<snip>

Allison is probably next.Bite thy tongue!! :mad:

:p :)

Bite thy tongue!! :mad:

:p :)
Ahhh, I get why you are where you are now.:eek:

So whatcha workin on?;)

Oooooooh...

Working on yummy super-transmissions, are we?