Wikipedia list of 'Automotive Flops'!

interesting list of cars for whatever its worth- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automotive_flops#Pontiac_Fiero

Interesting how they call Hummer a flop since it sales in the UK have been less than desirable.

I don’t think the UK market is going to make or break Hummer :rolleyes:

I use to own an Eagle Talon back in 1990, but I never heard of the this before:

"Liberty

In May 1985, hot on the heels of General Motors announced partnership with Toyota (NUMMI) and the launch of the Geo nameplate, Lee Iacocca announced the formation of the "Liberty", a new Chrysler marque targeting younger, import-loyal car buyers. Before the Liberty could get to the formation stage, Chrysler acquired American Motors for the rights to Jeep, and Liberty quietly disappeared, when Chrysler decided to launch Eagle as its youth-targeted brand."

I dont know how the Isuzu Vehicross escaped that list ?? - http://www.japcar.ru/autowallpapers/isuzu/isuzu_vehicross_800x600_1.jpg

I use to own an Eagle Talon back in 1990, but I never heard of the this before:



I dont know how the Isuzu Vehicross escaped that list ?? - http://www.japcar.ru/autowallpapers/isuzu/isuzu_vehicross_800x600_1.jpg


Probably because it was a very limited production vehicle, and there were never any just sitting on lots. Those all got bought up pretty quick.

Holy **** they killed the Raider already??

:lol:

I actually thought it was kind of good looking.

Mitsubishi, Izusu and a couple others need to just liquidate their assests and die. :death:

Suzuki... that was the other one.

While I applaud any attempt to take risks and bring out unique automobiles, this list really shows how difficult the auto industry is.

Unfortunately Auto Corps often spend valuable time, money, and resources answering questions that no one is asking:confused:

Why was the XJ220 so "undesired" at the time?

Few items I disagree somewhat with:

AMC Pacer
The Pacer sold an average of over 300,000 cars the 1st couple of years if I remember as they point out, but petered out when the fuel crisis ebbed. The way the car entered the market was pretty haphazardly (it was supposed to be lighter and be powered by GM's rotary engine, and capacity was expanded far too quickly), but it's total sales over the years still met what was expected over the life of the model.... it just happened quicker than planned.

Chevrolet Corvair
Corvair was a huge success. Such a success that GM initially decided that the new Mustang was no threat to the technologically superior Corvair (Corvair has IRS, turbocharging, and a unique chassis, while Mustang was essentially a rebodied Falcon... then positioned where a Focus sedan is today). Besides, there was an updated Corvair planned a few years later. Ralph Nader put the nails in Corvair's coffin, but GM decided to go with the new & cheaper Chevy 2 chassis for a sports coupe & fade the Corvair out well before Nader's influence...... an influence inflated by Nader himself.

GM EV1
I'm amazed this vehicle is on the list. First off, it was never sold! It was leased to customers with a mandated buyback by GM. Second, it was made in limited numbers. Finally, it was more an experimental vehicle than anything. All were collected back by GM and destroyed... to the great fanfare and crying of the eco-friendly crowd who offered to sign lawsuit waivers and spend any amount of money in order to keep theirs. Proof positive that the people who support these cars are rich, overly insecure people who are more intrested in making a statement than solving an issue..... sorry, I should say IMO on that. :)

Lincoln Versailles
It didn't burn up the charts, but it did still sell pretty well for a period. I remember my aunt & uncle bought one when they came out.

Pontiac Fiero
It sold in phenominal numbers when they 1st came out, and was by no measure a failure. But it was handicapped by 2 things. First, 2 passenger cars have a finite number of models it can sell. Once it reaches that number, unless there's a serious redesign, it's going to stagnate. That's why GM is keeping Kappa's production numbers low despite massive demand. The 2nd thing that happened with fiero was that GM didn't do all their homework on the car, and it was almost literally a flaming lemon the 1st couple of years. By the time GM got the car right (and fire resistant), not only was it on the down side of it's sales cycle, the car had a... er...."hot" reputation.

Hummer
As pointed out, judging Hummers success by it's sales in Europe is downright silly. The Chevy Impala sells 250,000 cars per year in the US and zilch in Europe. Holden sells about 140,000 Commodores in Australia, and only a few dozen in Europe (if that). Do these make them failures as well?

Why was the XJ220 so "undesired" at the time?
That's what I was wondering. Maybe the 3.5L V6 was underpowered?

GM EV1
I'm amazed this vehicle is on the list. First off, it was never sold! It was leased to customers with a mandated buyback by GM. Second, it was made in limited numbers. Finally, it was more an experimental vehicle than anything. All were collected back by GM and destroyed... to the great fanfare and crying of the eco-friendly crowd who offered to sign lawsuit waivers and spend any amount of money in order to keep theirs. Proof positive that the people who support these cars are rich, overly insecure people who are more intrested in making a statement than solving an issue..... sorry, I should say IMO on that. :)


I was about to post that GM was missing one, because its parked in the deck at my school. I guess it has something to do with this.

GM donated a small fraction of the total of EV1s to colleges and universities for engineering students, and to several museums, including the Smithsonian Institution

They aren't doing **** with it. Just sits there, with people writing "WTF is this" in the dust on it. :blah:

Few items I disagree somewhat with:

Pontiac Fiero
The 2nd thing that happened with fiero was that GM didn't do all their homework on the car, and it was almost literally a flaming lemon the 1st couple of years.

GM spent only 300m to build the car, the iron duke wasnt the engine of choice, it was what they were given. The oil capacity was 1/2 quart too low and GM supplied connecting rods were failing, causing the engine fires.

Wikipedia must be trying to use revisionist history. The fiero never was unprofitable (unlike kappa). There were no fitment issues with the panels and frame due to the unique mill-drill process. The frame design was excellent, proof of that is the fact that the Corvette starting using a similar design in 1997- C5.

Anyone aware EV1 had an aluminum chassis nearly 10 years before the Zo6.
Spaceframe design as well.

Have to disagree with them on the Fiero for a lot of reasons stated above. I've driven an 88 GT and I really enjoyed it. There was a good posting on C&G talking about GM 80 and it's connection to the failed Fiero. I'm also scratching my head on how one of the most important muscle cars of all time (superbird/daytona) can be called a flop.

I saw an EV1 on the road by my girlfriends house about a year and a half ago. There's also some type of of big GM service building about 20 minutes away from my house in an industrial park and there were about 20 or so EV1's in the parking lot, I'll have to drive by there some time soon and take a photo if they're still there

LOL a guy over at fuelslut.net has one of the dakota convertable pickup trucks...

Few items I disagree somewhat with:



You can change it. It is a wiki and is open for editing by the general public.

Holy **** they killed the Raider already??

:lol:

I actually thought it was kind of good looking.

A few weeks ago one of the Mitsubishi dealers here in Kansas City was running ads for buy a Raider and get a free Lancer! If you read the fine print, it was a 3 year lease on the Lancer, but still - that's still a pretty big incentive.

haha... I have one of those cars in my driveway right now.... the SVX. God I love it... until it breaks... then I die a little on the inside.

I'm also scratching my head on how one of the most important muscle cars of all time (superbird/daytona) can be called a flop.

They weren't on the tracks, but they certainly were in the showroom. Dealer's couldn't get rid of them. I've heard stories of dealers having brand new ones for years. Like the article mentions, there are stories of Superbirds being converted to plain Road Runners just to sell them.

Have to disagree with them on the Fiero for a lot of reasons stated above. I've driven an 88 GT and I really enjoyed it. There was a good posting on C&G talking about GM 80 and it's connection to the failed Fiero. I'm also scratching my head on how one of the most important muscle cars of all time (superbird/daytona) can be called a flop.


Like Eric pointed out, the Superbird & Daytona were bona fide flops due to them being all but absolutely impossible to sell. Just because something is important in retrospect doesn't mean it was popular, special, or sold well. At the time, the SB/Datona looked liked something that today would be ridiculed as an extreme ricer, carried an absolutely astronomical pricetag (though it was cut to the bone when dealers couldn't get rid of them), and finally, they came out after the insurence industry declared war on high performance, high powered cars..... and the Superbird had the biggest target painted on it.

Also, just because a car is really enjoyable doesn't mean it isn't a flop as well. The Corvette ZR1 became something of a flop. Ditto Ford's Merkur line of the 80s. Both set new levels of handling. Both were duds.

Fiero IMO wasn't a flop. As pointed out, they cost nothing to create & always made a profit. They call Fiero a flop because of sales figures of the last couple years, which I think is wrong because it sold in fantastic quanities early on. GM still sold more Fieros overall than they ever planned to.

and poof there goes the hummer entry :)

you guys need to contact wikipedia to get that info changed.. Thats the whole point of a wiki.

you guys need to contact wikipedia to get that info changed.. Thats the whole point of a wiki.
no need to contact wikipedia, you just click the "edit" link and poof there you go.

notice how the hummer entry is gone? thats because i just went in there and deleted it ... anyone can do anything.

Someone should delete the whole article, since it's basically nothing more than an opinion piece.

Someone should delete the whole article, since it's basically nothing more than an opinion piece.


There's no doubt there is a whole lot of 'opinion' on that page, but if a car sells far below anticipated annual sales volume projections then it would be in 'fact' a sales flop and not just an opinion.

Just because a car did not sell well does not automatically mean it was a bad car. Only that it was not marketed/advertised right, its price was too high, lack of demand for that type of car in that time period, and etc.

Sometimes a poor selling car of the past end up being a highly desireable collector car of the future because of it's unique design and low production volume. So in fact 'one man's garbage can be another man's goldmine'.

no need to contact wikipedia, you just click the "edit" link and poof there you go.

notice how the hummer entry is gone? thats because i just went in there and deleted it ... anyone can do anything.


Ah.. wasn't sure if they opened it up like that.. We have an internal one that we purposefully restrict access.

and poof there goes the hummer entry :)

I was wondering why it wasn't there anymore.