A quick tid-bit on the SC Vette

Talked to my friend who works at GM and goes up to one of the build centers in Detroit regularly.

He said he has seen many Z06’s come in and out (I guess going over to the Milford proving grounds) with blowers on them since April.

He has been told the Escalade will also be receiving this engine.

So the LS9 looks to be in full test mode right now :D

Z06s w/ blowers? So you mean they just strapped on a blower to an LS7 and called it an LS9 or made a few other changes or are they just sticking fully unique LS9 motors in Z06s?

Z06s w/ blowers? So you mean they just strapped on a blower to an LS7 and called it an LS9 or made a few other changes or are they just sticking fully unique LS9 motors in Z06s?

The Z06 bodies are just test shells. I don’t think it has really much to do with the Z06 at all. They just happen to be the mules.

Have you been living under a rock Kyle? There have been many threads about the LS9 SC engine in here over the past few months. ;)

We’ve even had some pics I think last week.

This is a totally unique engine with nothing really to do with the LS7 other than both being LS engines.

He said they come in and totally replace their drive and powertrain after each test run, only leaving the brake components and such still on the car.

The only real way to tell the difference visually between these mules and a regular Z06 is a small fiberglass bump on the hood where they had to cut to make room for the blower components.

Oh and I forgot to mention, the hybrid Tahoe’s they are building/testing right now are using 6.0L V8’s :shock:

I thought the LS9 was 6.4l?

So you mean they just strapped on a blower to an LS7 and called it an LS9 or made a few other changes or are they just sticking fully unique LS9 motors in Z06s?No. :rolleyes:

My understanding is the LS9 is a smaller displacement and mass produced, not handbuilt like the LS7, making it cheaper to manufacture.

Probably forged pistons too. Isnt the current LS7 using Hypereutectic pistons along with every other LS engine?

No. :rolleyes:

My understanding is the LS9 is a smaller displacement and mass produced, not handbuilt like the LS7, making it cheaper to manufacture.

I believe you're correct about the smaller displacement. Last I heard was 6.2. Wasn't it the cylinder walls on 7.0L that were too thin to make it a blown motor?

However, the LS9 will still be built at the Performance Build Center and in very low numbers.

dont think I like the Z06 LS7 replacement being a blown motor. I hope there is a motor over the LS9 Naturally aspirated.

Yea, I've heard of one in another vehicle. I guess it's a good dream car to look forward to buying when I'm old.
The Camaro isn't a poor man's sports car anymore. :(

No. :rolleyes:

People say I act condescening and 'know it all' like?:lol: Wow.

I just asked a damn question. I've seen a couple of threads about the LS9 but seen absolutely no solid answers about its design other than it's a supercharged LS architecture motor. I didn't know if it was basically a supercharged LS7 or just the unique LS9 being tested in the Z06 body or what... way to simply answer my question and not act like a star wars geek when the newb asks such an obvious question as 'What was princess Leia's second line to Chewbaca in the 47th scene of the first star wars movie?'

:p

Last I heard the LS9 is a Supercharged 6.2L. The N/A 6.2L was called to be the LS3.

People say I act condescening and 'know it all' like?:lol: Wow.

I just asked a damn question. I've seen a couple of threads about the LS9 but seen absolutely no solid answers about its design other than it's a supercharged LS architecture motor. I didn't know if it was basically a supercharged LS7 or just the unique LS9 being tested in the Z06 body or what... way to simply answer my question and not act like a star wars geek when the newb asks such an obvious question as 'What was princess Leia's second line to Chewbaca in the 47th scene of the first star wars movie?'

:p
Actually, Princess Leia had no lines spoken directly to Chewbacca in the first star wars movie....

Actually, Princess Leia had no lines spoken directly to Chewbacca in the first star wars movie....

Your Geek-Fu is awesome. The grasshapper bows to the master and hopes the master only uses his awesome powers for good!

Those of you worried about the GT500's weight might want to consider something.

A supercharger, intercooler, tubing & plumbing, and beefer drivetrain added about 350 pounds to the Mustang GT.

Though this GM engine will have an alumunum block instead of iron, all that stuff is still gonna add weight..... quite a bit.

Those of you worried about the GT500's weight might want to consider something.

A supercharger, intercooler, tubing & plumbing, and beefer drivetrain added about 350 pounds to the Mustang GT.

Though this GM engine will have an alumunum block instead of iron, all that stuff is still gonna add weight..... quite a bit.
Its a good thing then that itll be going in a Vette with a team behind it that can magically make weight disappear....however if it shows up in a Camaro, we might have a weight issue, but hell, we'd have a 500+hp Camaro, who the F cares!!!

Those of you worried about the GT500's weight might want to consider something.

A supercharger, intercooler, tubing & plumbing, and beefer drivetrain added about 350 pounds to the Mustang GT.

Though this GM engine will have an alumunum block instead of iron, all that stuff is still gonna add weight..... quite a bit.

nothing wrong with a supercharger but there was a strong alure to the Z06 not needing one to do as well as the GT

My cousin was talking about replacing his 04 Z06 when the new Z06 gets Ceramic brakes. I told him to wait for the new motors but he doesnt want the superchargers.

we might have a weight issue, but hell, we'd have a 500+hp Camaro, who the F cares!!!
All of the people who are down on the GT500 because of its weight, that's who. And there are a lot of them.

Confucious say blower on stock LS7 go boom.

Its a good thing then that itll be going in a Vette with a team behind it that can magically make weight disappear....however if it shows up in a Camaro, we might have a weight issue, but hell, we'd have a 500+hp Camaro, who the F cares!!!

I don't expect to see a supercharged 650HP+ Camaro. The most powerfull/fastest mass produced production Camaro was the last SS at 325HP. 400HP LS2 or 425HP 6.2L Camaros would be a huge upgrade.

We will be lucky to see a limited edition 500HP LS7 Camaro, and even that will be pushing the price limits on what a Camaro should cost.

Though this GM engine will have an alumunum block instead of iron, all that stuff is still gonna add weight..... quite a bit.

Which is why I cringe whenever the topic of blown top motors in Corvette/Camaro come up.

Looks like it's a done deal though. :(

Looks like it's a done deal though. :(

Not necessarily.

Not necessarily.


That's the first I've heard that they may be considering other options. I hope there are other alternatives to a power adder on the table for this car. It just doesn't fit with Corvette, IMO.

That's the first I've heard that they may be considering other options. I hope there are other alternatives to a power adder on the table for this car. It just doesn't fit with Corvette, IMO.

I think the LS9 is a done deal for the Corvette though.

As far as a SC Camaro, it may not be final.

I think the LS9 is a done deal for the Corvette though.

As far as a SC Camaro, it may not be final.


Ah, I misunderstood... I thought you meant there were alternatives being considered for Corvette. Now I'm back to slightly disappointed. :(

I think the LS9 is a done deal for the Corvette though.

As far as a SC Camaro, it may not be final.


Really?

I don’t expect to see a 650hp SC version like the Vette in the 5th gen, but I was under the impression we would have a 500 plus hp version of the LS9.

Either way, I still think its cool these are being tested right now. That means we may only be a year or so until they hit the streets. :D

I don’t expect to see a 650hp SC version like the Vette in the 5th gen, but I was under the impression we would have a 500 plus hp version of the LS9.
I was under the same impression. :D

I don’t expect to see a 650hp SC version like the Vette in the 5th gen, but I was under the impression we would have a 500 plus hp version of the LS9.

I'm kinda confused by your wording but it sounds like you think a non-S/C version of the LS9 could make it into the 5th gen Camaro? If so do you think they'd keep most/all other specs the same as to make it the perfect candidate for out of the box supercharging? Or would they likely at least take advantage of the N/A setup and set it up with a much higher CR?

Doesn't E85 produce a much higher effective octane? If that's the case if the Camaro is setup to use E85, I wonder if that would allow people to effectively leave the CR of their motor alone when going for FI as long as they stuck to E85?

Really?

I don’t expect to see a 650hp SC version like the Vette in the 5th gen, but I was under the impression we would have a 500 plus hp version of the LS9.

Either way, I still think its cool these are being tested right now. That means we may only be a year or so until they hit the streets. :D
If the LS9 isnt supercharged, isnt it just an LS3?

Personally, I'd much prefer to see the Camaro remain N/A.

I don't expect to see a supercharged 650HP+ Camaro. The most powerfull/fastest mass produced production Camaro was the last SS at 325HP.

Minor point: The SS with the SLP lid and dual-dual exhaust was rated at 345 HP.

I'm kinda confused by your wording but it sounds like you think a non-S/C version of the LS9 could make it into the 5th gen Camaro? If so do you think they'd keep most/all other specs the same as to make it the perfect candidate for out of the box supercharging? Or would they likely at least take advantage of the N/A setup and set it up with a much higher CR?


If the LS9 isnt supercharged, isnt it just an LS3?

Sorry if what I typed wasn’t clear. From what I understand/ last I heard, the 5th gen’s top model will have SC LS engine. I also heard somewhere that it will make above 500 hp.

Whether it’s this LS9 that my friend saw testing in the Corvettes or something else I'm not sure.

From what I've read and heard this LS9 under testing now will be above 600 hp.

So that leads me to think the Camaro’s version will either be a totally different SC engine or an LS9 with a different tune of sorts.

From what I understand it’s more cost effective to use force induction on LS motors to make this kind of power compared to building high performance N/A engines like the LS7.

Is this making more sense? Sometimes I type out stuff and assume people understand what I'm saying. One of my fatal flaws I guess.

One of my fatal flaws I guess.

I'll miss you.:( When's the funeral?

:p

I'll miss you.:( When's the funeral?

:p

;)
Hopefully this weekend....I’ve been working 10 hour days for nearly two weeks straight now (minus Tuesday)....my brain is turning to mush...

Sorry if what I typed wasn’t clear. From what I understand/ last I heard, the 5th gen’s top model will have SC LS engine. I also heard somewhere that it will make above 500 hp.

Whether it’s this LS9 that my friend saw testing in the Corvettes or something else I'm not sure.

From what I've read and heard this LS9 under testing now will be above 600 hp.

So that leads me to think the Camaro’s version will either be a totally different SC engine or an LS9 with a different tune of sorts.

From what I understand it’s more cost effective to use force induction on LS motors to make this kind of power compared to building high performance N/A engines like the LS7.

Is this making more sense? Sometimes I type out stuff and assume people understand what I'm saying. One of my fatal flaws I guess.


hmm... S/C 6.2L is expected to be ~650ish HP, maybe too much for a Camaro that is just looking for a 500HP engine.

Would GM build a S/C 5.3L? How well would DoD take to a supercharger. 500HP + 28mpg would be cool :cool:

hmm... S/C 6.2L is expected to be ~650ish HP, maybe too much for a Camaro that is just looking for a 500HP engine.

Would GM build a S/C 5.3L? How well would DoD take to a supercharger. 500HP + 28mpg would be cool :cool:

Interesting thought, but I was under the impression the 5.3L days were numbered.

If we do end up getting a SC 5th gen I would expect it to be a very similar variant of this LS9.

This is just my own speculation though.

hmm... S/C 6.2L is expected to be ~650ish HP, maybe too much for a Camaro that is just looking for a 500HP engine.

Would GM build a S/C 5.3L? How well would DoD take to a supercharger. 500HP + 28mpg would be cool :cool:
I don't think you will see AMF, not DOD, and a supercharger on the same engine. There would be issue with the increased intake pressure being compressed by the closing of 4 cylinders, when the AMF is active. So the intake pressure would spike when going into 4 cylinder mode. And how well would the hydraulic filled lifters work under higher pressures of a supercharged engine?

I don't think you will see AMF, not DOD, and a supercharger on the same engine. There would be issue with the increased intake pressure being compressed by the closing of 4 cylinders, when the AMF is active. So the intake pressure would spike when going into 4 cylinder mode. And how well would the hydraulic filled lifters work under higher pressures of a supercharged engine?

I think DOD could be made to work. A supercharger does not create any additional cylinder pressure unless the throttle is opened to the point with load on the engine to create boost. Current DOD operation reverts from 4 cylinder to 8 cylinder mode upon increased throttle openings anyways. It is just an issue of accurate programming. And perhaps, component durability with things such as the lifters as you pointed out.

Interesting thought, but I was under the impression the 5.3L days were numbered.

Replaced by what displacement? They killed the 5.7L and now have a 6.2L that is very close in size to the 6.0L.

Replaced by what displacement? They killed the 5.7L and now have a 6.2L that is very close in size to the 6.0L.

I really don’t know, I just thought I heard it somewhere.

Funny thing though, same guy who told about the Vette's said they have been building a lot Tahoes with 4.8L's

Funny thing though, same guy who told about the Vette's said they have been building a lot Tahoes with 4.8L's

The Tahoes are getting iron block 4.8L's that don't have AFM/DoD and put out 295HP/305tq. On GMCs they will be for 2WD only. Other than a little bit of cost, what advantage would a 4.8L offer over a 5.3L w/ DoD?

from http://www.gmc.com/2007yukon/specsFuel.jsp

Yukon 2wd 4.8L = 15/20mpg 295Hp/305tq
Yukon 2wd 5.3L = 16/22mpg 320HP/340tq

Why on earth would anyone want the 4.8L? It really could use that AFM/DoD and VVT

Edit: Corrected HP#'s for 4.8L, source GMpowertrain.com

The Tahoes are getting iron block 4.8L's that don't have AFM/DoD and put out 290HP/290tq. On GMCs they will be for 2WD only. Other than a little bit of cost, what advantage would a 4.8L offer over a 5.3L w/ DoD?

from http://www.gmc.com/2007yukon/specsFuel.jsp

Yukon 2wd 4.8L = 15/20mpg 290Hp/290tq
Yukon 2wd 5.3L = 16/22mpg 320HP/340tq

Why on earth would anyone want the 4.8L? It really could use that AFM/DoD and VVT

Oh I wasn’t suggesting the use of the 4.8L over the 5.3L, I just thought it was weird that my friend mentioned the increased use of it while at the same time I heard on here that the 5.3L's future may not be too bright.

But like I said, I'm shooting in the dark here.

Oh I wasn’t suggesting the use of the 4.8L over the 5.3L, I just thought it was weird that my friend mentioned the increased use of it while at the same time I heard on here that the 5.3L's future may not be too bright.

But like I said, I'm shooting in the dark here.

I corrected my numbers, the 4.8L does better than I thought. It will be 295HP/305tq.

concerning weight, I havent seen any vette owners who install a magnacharger that complain about the added weight.

I too would like to see an "all motor" engine in the new camaro although the modability of ford's modular engine but in a lighter and less complex package with more displacement capabilities really is exciting.

you guys realize that the 6.2L is a 4.065" bore by 3.622" stroke? that means with a .005" hone of the cylinder walls and a 4.1" stroker crank (which doesnt cost more than a 4" stroker crank) you have 427 cubic inches. a supercharged 427 sounds good :bow:

Thought the SC vette might even be a DOHC motor?
Sucks about smaller displacement though. We don't want to pull a ford and go backwards on our displacement.
Would be real nice if the blower is not the inefficient roots style though.
No chance of that happening though.
Why are people saying the ls7 is too thin to take boost.
Lingenfelter and others boost them to 800HP with a 2 year warrenty.
They don't do that because they think they'll break.

I don't expect to see a supercharged 650HP+ Camaro. The most powerfull/fastest mass produced production Camaro was the last SS at 325HP. 400HP LS2 or 425HP 6.2L Camaros would be a huge upgrade.

We will be lucky to see a limited edition 500HP LS7 Camaro, and even that will be pushing the price limits on what a Camaro should cost.

The last mass produced production Camaro could come with a rating of 345HP, depending on SLP options.

*Edit - Damn, Bert beat me to it.

Its a good thing then that itll be going in a Vette with a team behind it that can magically make weight disappear....however if it shows up in a Camaro, we might have a weight issue, but hell, we'd have a 500+hp Camaro, who the F cares!!!

I would probably have an issue with it weighing that much, 500hp or not.

Personally, I'd much prefer to see the Camaro remain N/A.

Personally, I would prefer to see the Corvette remain N/A as well.

Thought the SC vette might even be a DOHC motor?


I was just thinking about this. Remember awhile back, the leaked document that DigitalCorvettes got their hands on that listed the LS9 as a DOHC motor? There was much speculation as to whether the engine's valvetrain would actually be DOHC, or if it was some kind of manufacturing code? However, building an ultra low volume DOHC 7L handbuilt engine for a Corvette likely to cost somewhere in the 6 figures making 650hp naturally aspirated would have been pretty sweet. I personnaly wouldn't have had any problem with a setup like that in the Vette, and it would have circumvented any weight issues brought on by the addition of a blower and it's componentry, as a set of DOHC heads are likely to add much less weight that all the FI stuff.

I am confused about something else as well. There are supposedly 3 new performance type engines coming to the GM powertrain family: the LS3, the LS8, and the LS9. We seem to have a pretty good idea of what the LS3 is: a 6.2L engine with cylinder deactivation being a likely feature, and variable valve timing. That leaves the LS8 and the LS9. Sounds like the LS9 is definetly the blown 6.2L big hp motor. I have heard that the LS8 is an LS3 existing in a state of higher tune, but I have also heard that the LS8 is an LS9 under a milder state of tune. Which one is likely correct? I am having trouble making heads or tails of this LS8/LS9 stuff.

I would probably have an issue with it weighing that much, 500hp or not.



Personally, I would prefer to see the Corvette remain N/A as well.



I was just thinking about this. Remember awhile back, the leaked document that DigitalCorvettes got their hands on that listed the LS9 as a DOHC motor? There was much speculation as to whether the engine's valvetrain would actually be DOHC, or if it was some kind of manufacturing code? However, building an ultra low volume DOHC 7L handbuilt engine for a Corvette likely to cost somewhere in the 6 figures making 650hp naturally aspirated would have been pretty sweet. I personnaly wouldn't have had any problem with a setup like that in the Vette, and it would have circumvented any weight issues brought on by the addition of a blower and it's componentry, as a set of DOHC heads are likely to add much less weight that all the FI stuff.

I am confused about something else as well. There are supposedly 3 new performance type engines coming to the GM powertrain family: the LS3, the LS8, and the LS9. We seem to have a pretty good idea of what the LS3 is: a 6.2L engine with cylinder deactivation being a likely feature, and variable valve timing. That leaves the LS8 and the LS9. Sounds like the LS9 is definetly the blown 6.2L big hp motor. I have heard that the LS8 is an LS3 existing in a state of higher tune, but I have also heard that the LS8 is an LS9 under a milder state of tune. Which one is likely correct? I am having trouble making heads or tails of this LS8/LS9 stuff.
The DOHC engine would be a re-do of what the ZR1 was. I personally would prefer OHV, but to each their own. Either way, sounds like we're gonna get one awesome motor.

The DOHC engine would be a re-do of what the ZR1 was. I personally would prefer OHV, but to each their own. Either way, sounds like we're gonna get one awesome motor.

And I would personally prefer NA, which is probably unlikely with the current OHV technology GM employs in their engines.

I think the supercharger would add as much complication, if not more, than a set of DOHC heads.

And I would personally prefer NA, which is probably unlikely with the current OHV technology GM employs in their engines.

I think the supercharger would add as much complication, if not more, than a set of DOHC heads.
Well, I'm still waiting for the 3 valve heads that we heard about so long ago.

Doesnt Ford use a #v head on their 300hp 4.6?

Those of you worried about the GT500's weight might want to consider something.

A supercharger, intercooler, tubing & plumbing, and beefer drivetrain added about 350 pounds to the Mustang GT.

Though this GM engine will have an alumunum block instead of iron, all that stuff is still gonna add weight..... quite a bit.

Well sort of. Litre for litre, Ford's engine will always weigh more than an LSx engine simply due to the fact that it is OHC. Ever see the heads on Ford's little 4.6 liter engine? They look bigger than the heads on an old school Chrysler Hemi big block. The design is so massive that it significantly changes the center of gravity of the engine and thus the vehicle.