I've had it with my suspension!!!

Damn thing rides like a rock! I have Y2k's on stock F1 EMT's, eibach pro kit springs and decarbons (I know). I've been considering changing shocks and struts, but I'm having a constant problem with the alignment going out of spec under 8k miles. This is causing my front tires to wear on the inside as well as cause the car to pull to the left or right was I brake depending on where I am. I feel everything in the road and bumps will jar my teeth out, and the front is very stiff while the rear is really soft. All the tie rods and balljoints are tight and the shocks, struts and springs are fairly new.

I really dont think the springs are to blame mostly, I think it's a combination of the front struts being too stiff for lowering springs and perhaps the extra height in the rear from the 18's causing a traction/ weight distribution issue? Someone enlighten me so I dont spend more unneeded money again, please!

Your basic problem here is that you thought springs would improve handling, but forgot to learn that without shocks capable of damping the springs, all springs alone will do is make your car miserable to drive.

The decarbons are utterly and completely incapable of controlling those springs. You'll need konis, and yes they are pricey. Lowering springs are also not compatible with Bilsteins, not even with the revalves available only from Strano. I see no reason to lower at all, IF performance and handling is your goal. With LTs and true duals, I'd go back to stock springs with good shocks, again preferably Koni, but with stock springs and Revalved Strano Bilsteins, both handling and ride would GREATLY improve over the mistakes you've made so far. Add a set of 35/22 sway bars, you'd be amazed. Konis would be better, but do cost more.

Personally, I'd lose the 18s and go back to at least 17 or better yet 16s for some reasonable sidewall height, but if not, at least keep air pressure stockish, say 32 front, 30 rear.

Look, if you really want to know how to make it handle well and ride well, search this stuff a while, read a couple hundred pages here, and then call Sam Strano. Or skip the reading, and call him, and take ALL his advice, not just parts.

The size of the wheel makes a huge difference in ride quality.
As an example: Melissas 95 firebird V6 was running around on the stock 16 inch wheels and she had no problems with how the suspension felt.
We got a great deal on a set of 17 X 9.5 Y2K rims and had some thin sidewall tires on em and installed them.
She loved how it looked but absolutely hated how it made the car feel.
Only change was the wheels and tires, nothing else changed and she hated it.
I will probably end up with the wheels now once we find a good set of 16s to put back on hers.

did you adjust your alignment specs to compensate for the lowering? look on eibach's site for the new specs and then go get an alignment. if you just do the alignment, you'll be way out of spec by about .2 degrees...enough to give you tire shred.

also check your tie rod ends and ball joints. if they're bad replace them. they'll cause you to shred tires too. i just had to replace my rod ends at 85k miles.

as for the stiff ride, dropping to 17's and replacing your shocks is a first and a must. then go with your sway bars...it's already been covered. als, if you have rod end stuff on the rest off your suspension get rid of it for bushings. it's a mushier ride but the "handling" aspect is better...it's also quieter. rod ends are like having solid steel connections for suspension components...it's rough and loud. if you're interested in this, there's a thread about using aluminum LCA/PHR from a store and getting bushings/rod ends from somewhere else to make your own susp stuff.

Cant go back to 16's. I have the C5 brake conversion in the front and it needs a 17" minimum. I LOVE those things, so I dont think I'd put stockers back on there just for that reason. And since C5's came with those tire and wheel combo's, and they ride 100x better, I dont think the problem lies too much in the wheels...some, but not that much. Maybe the weight distribution and ride height of the 18's would cause some traction issues, that's about it.

I think the decarbon's are probably mostly to blame. I'd like to keep a slightly dropped ride height because of the clearance it gives in the wheelwells and even with LT's and duals I dont have clearance issues (maybe partially because of the 18's in the rear?). I dont like big gaps over the tire under the fender.

I dont have too big of a problem with cornering, but I think the swaybars would still help. What kind of shocks could I use with the eibachs and improve my ride? I no longer have the stock springs. After that I'm doing 17's with drag radials, then a 12 bolt.

Do the front C5 wheels bolt in place in the rear with any problems?

...Lowering springs are also not compatible with Bilsteins, not even with the revalves available only from Strano.

That's funny, cause I just spoke with Spohn and they said Bilstein HD's are EXACTLY the shocks to use with the Pro Kit. Hmm...

-John

HD revalves

yeah my cars pretty stiff and doesnt like bumps too. Hotchkis 1 inch springs with Bilstien HDs. wheels are OEM corvette wheels. (17 front / 18 rear) Bad combo for living in MA, but i like how it looks and handles. :)

To what extent is Spohn in roadracing and autox?

That's funny, cause I just spoke with Spohn and they said Bilstein HD's are EXACTLY the shocks to use with the Pro Kit. Hmm...

-John

Damn thing rides like a rock! I have Y2k's on stock F1 EMT's,............ I feel everything in the road and bumps will jar my teeth out, ..........


Aren't the EMT's run-flats? If so, I believe that is a big part of your problem. My understanding is that the run-flats are like riding on rocks.......

To what extent is Spohn in roadracing and autox?

Don't know. Contact them.;)

-J

I really dont think the springs are to blame mostly, I think it's a combination of the front struts being too stiff for lowering springs and perhaps the extra height in the rear from the 18's causing a traction/ weight distribution issue? Someone enlighten me so I dont spend more unneeded money again, please!You hit the nail on the head yourself. Those 18's really give up all the sidewall cushion and the shocks are totally wrong. I've had the Eibach prokit springs with the Bilstein shocks on my '94 going on four years and I cannot imagine anything working better. My car drives like it is on a wire. I don't find the firm ride too jarring.

That's funny, cause I just spoke with Spohn and they said Bilstein HD's are EXACTLY the shocks to use with the Pro Kit. Hmm...

-John


So do it. They are wrong, and advising you incorrectly. Bilsteins are NOT capable of damping the shorter, stiffer travel of lowering springs.

Ask Sam Strano if you want feedback from someone who has tried most every combination out there.

Um. Sam Strano is somewhere in the top 5 in autocross in the F stock class, IIRC.

Spohn... I believe they do a lot of welding, and make some nice suspension parts.

So do it. They are wrong, and advising you incorrectly. Bilsteins are NOT capable of damping the shorter, stiffer travel of lowering springs.

In the bilstien catalog, it says they are not for use with lowering springs or lowered cars. I'm not saying they'll "explode", but it's not an ideal package in my opinion, nor is it recommended by the manufacturer. I do feel that they are an improvement over the stock decarbons, but not that much of an improvement for 1/2 the cost of Koni's.

In the bilstien catalog, it says they are not for use with lowering springs or lowered cars.
Searching the Bilstein catalog by either '94 or '98 Camaro Z28 I could only find them listed as the SLP model and SLP sells them with lowering springs from Eibach. It seems likely that the combination was intended to work together.

That's funny, cause I just spoke with Spohn and they said Bilstein HD's are EXACTLY the shocks to use with the Pro Kit. Hmm...

-John

:no: :no: :no: :rolleyes:

Searching the Bilstein catalog by either '94 or '98 Camaro Z28 I could only find them listed as the SLP model and SLP sells them with lowering springs from Eibach. It seems likely that the combination was intended to work together.

Also not right.. While Eibach makes the SLP springs, they are not in fact the *SAME* as the Eibach Pro-kits or Sportlines. For that matter those aren't even the same part numbers between LT1 and LS1 cars.

Um. Sam Strano is somewhere in the top 5 in autocross in the F stock class, IIRC.



2 SCCA National Championships. 1 SCCA ProSolo series Championship. Setup, helped setup, or been a part of numerous other nationals winners. fwiw

Also not right.. While Eibach makes the SLP springs, they are not in fact the *SAME* as the Eibach Pro-kits or Sportlines. For that matter those aren't even the same part numbers between LT1 and LS1 cars.I know but they are a "lowering" spring, 1" according to the SLP catalog, which is what someone said the Bilstein catalog specifically warned against. There is a difference between working and optimum, I'll agree.

Searching the Bilstein catalog by either '94 or '98 Camaro Z28 I could only find them listed as the SLP model and SLP sells them with lowering springs from Eibach. It seems likely that the combination was intended to work together.

Uh...ok.

Start here. Just read the top of the page, you don't even have to look for it. This is from Bilstien's website.

http://www.bilstein.com/302passengercars.pdf

IMPORTANT NOTE-SUSPENSION MODIFICATIONS FOR LOWERING VEHICLE RIDE HEIGHT.
If Bilstein shocks are used in conjunction with shorter aftermarket springs, the shocks selected should
be Sport type. HD or C type shocks are not suitable.

Now, with that said. SLP has their shocks revalved (well, the fronts are) to their specs and their lowering springs don't really lower the front of the car more than 1/4" (based on the last car I installed them on). The rear drops a bit more.... But, as I said, they won't explode.....it's just not ideal and it's still probably better than the decarbons, just not enough for the money in my opinion.

So, you guys can think what you want and as I said, it can work somewhat (and the world won't end), but in fact, the manufacturer recommends against it (I wasn't lying about that).

i'm sure if you called sam and asked him he'd set you up with something you'll end up loving. even if you want to keep the wheels you have now...tires too. he'll set you up with whay you need. he's got good prices and great customer service.