Base Model Nervousness

Not sure if this has been discussed before, but is anyone else worried about the entry-level camaro? One of the reasons I dislike the new stang so much is because they look horrible in base trim, which is what the majority on the street are, as will be the case with the new camaro. Even the 4th gens, especially the base firebird, looked bloated and bland with the little wheels/tires, etc. I'm just worried that the aggressive lines, low roof, and muscular fenders of the new camaro are going to look overdone & out of place on a plain jane v6 model, which could really hurt the mass appeal of the car. Maybe its just me though :shrug:

who cares what the v6 looks like? I hope it only comes in z28 form personally

who cares what the v6 looks like?

We should all care, because if it fails so do the top models. :rolleyes:

who cares what the v6 looks like? I hope it only comes in z28 form personally

People who want the 5th gen to stay around IMO. If this car is going to sell over 100k units, the v6 is going to have to be a hit. If it looks the short-bus version of the z28 or ss, then it wont be a threat to the competition.

I'm not nervous at all. GM knows the v6 cars have to be more than just afterthoughts.

I'm not nervous at all. GM knows the v6 cars have to be more than just afterthoughts.
Im pretty sure GM is aware that the V6 has to get the attention of the crowd. After all its the car that needs to sell to keep the car alive. Im sure they will have something good for us.

Base 4th gens had Z28 wheels, and tire width was only 10mm narrower :shrug:

Base 4th gens had Z28 wheels

Or vice versa, not sure which!! :D

We should all care, because if it fails so do the top models. :rolleyes:


you couldnt have typed a more true statement.
-steve

No Im not worried. Then again I think that the base mustang looks great. The only two things that give it away to me are single exhaust an fog lights? There isnt one Camaro year that didnt have a base model, plain jane in comparison.

My 69 didnt have the cowl, front spoiler or chrome shark gill. It got plenty of looks. My 98 doesnt have the Z28 wheels y'all are talking about so that must have been an option.(has hubcaps) Besides those , dual exhaust and badges I cant tell for the 4th gen. The car still has Mystic green which changes to purple slightly in certain light. Its going to be differentiated from the V8. Its also going to let the average person know what they're looking at when they see a Z28 after that.

The concern I have is that this car, compared to the past models, is much more aggressive and bold. It doesn't seem like the design is meant to have an entry-level model. We are all use to seeing the camaro with 21/22" wheels, a rear valence with built-in dual exhaust,etc and I think that when the car gets watered down to be able to compete with a $20k mustang that it will look "cheap" for lack of a better term. It seems it is going to be like trying to make the corvette into an entry level sports car, from an appearance point of view.

The concern I have is that this car, compared to the past models, is much more aggressive and bold. It doesn't seem like the design is meant to have an entry-level model. We are all use to seeing the camaro with 21/22" wheels, a rear valence with built-in dual exhaust,etc and I think that when the car gets watered down to be able to compete with a $20k mustang that it will look "cheap" for lack of a better term. It seems it is going to be like trying to make the corvette into an entry level sports car, from an appearance point of view.
Well, any concept car has had those big rims. If I recall the 4th gen concept cars also had bigger rims then what they came with. I think (since I drive one) Thhe 4th gen V6 were perfect espically for there time era. Not many cars in the late 90s had a 200hp V6 for a sports car so it was a great car then still is today imo I love mine lol.

I'm not worried about the base or mid level model. I think GM is going to nail it. What does worry me is the ability to personalize.... perhaps the Mustang's strong point.

The big thing about past "pony cars" (as well as modern ricers) is the ability and ease to find a wide range of performance and cosmetic parts and make your car unique.

I also hope GM finds a way to make most options ala-carte instead of needing to order packages containing items you don't want or need just to get a simple item.

Forcing someone in Hawaii or Arizona to order heated seats just to get a leather interior for example seems pretty dumb IMO.

What does worry me is the ability to personalize.... perhaps the Mustang's strong point.

The big thing about past "pony cars" (as well as modern ricers) is the ability and ease to find a wide range of performance and cosmetic parts and make your car unique.

I also hope GM finds a way to make most options ala-carte instead of needing to order packages containing items you don't want or need just to get a simple item.

Forcing someone in Hawaii or Arizona to order heated seats just to get a leather interior for example seems pretty dumb IMO.


I thought the groupings like that were pretty smart. The only way to get exactly what you want or individualize exactly is to order a car not on the lot. Then arent you paying MSRP for it? It would seem to me you would have more control of what your getting. If you had the leather seats you would know that heated seats came with that package rather than a mis matched package that was cobbled together. Am I wrong on this?

Even the 4th gens, especially the base firebird, looked bloated and bland with the little wheels/tires, etc. I'm just worried that the aggressive lines, low roof, and muscular fenders of the new camaro are going to look overdone & out of place on a plain jane v6 model, which could really hurt the mass appeal of the car. Maybe its just me though :shrug:

I park next to a guy with a black Z28 convertable that has the exact stock rims and damn close tire size as me just about everyday and our cars dont look bloated :shrug:. I agree with the others though. I think GM knows the v6er has to look good and appealing and I dont think they'll disappoint.

I thought the groupings like that were pretty smart. The only way to get exactly what you want or individualize exactly is to order a car not on the lot. Then arent you paying MSRP for it? It would seem to me you would have more control of what your getting. If you had the leather seats you would know that heated seats came with that package rather than a mis matched package that was cobbled together. Am I wrong on this?


Not necessarily, you pay whatever the price you and the dealership worked out before hand. Whether MSRP, less, more...etc.
If you wanted a base car with bigger wheels...why would u want to pay for the wheels...and a few thousand dollars worth of other options they tack on with the package???? Why would you want to pay for the heated seats when you live in an environment to never use it?? all you really wanted is the leather.
I too hope buyers are able to individualize a little more then what has been the case.

I am not worried. GM understands that the V6 is the "cake", and everything beyond that is "icing" on the "cake". If people don't want "cake", there probably won't be any "icing" either. I would like to see the options be more "ala-carte" as well. People like different kinds of "cake" and they like different "icing" on their "cake", some people even like to add "sprinkles". Mustangs (especially the new ones) are notoriously good at that, and I am hoping the 5th Gen will be the same in that respect.

David

I personally think the V6 Mustang looks cleaner than the GT with the lack of fog lights.

I don't think GM will ignore the V6 models this time. I hope they offer individual options as well, packages just aren't the right thing to do this time around.

I am not worried. GM understands that the V6 is the "cake", and everything beyond that is "icing" on the "cake". If people don't want "cake", there probably won't be any "icing" either. I would like to see the options be more "ala-carte" as well. People like different kinds of "cake" and they like different "icing" on their "cake", some people even like to add "sprinkles". Mustangs (especially the new ones) are notoriously good at that, and I am hoping the 5th Gen will be the same in that respect.

David

I like pie :eek:

I am not worried. GM understands that the V6 is the "cake", and everything beyond that is "icing" on the "cake". If people don't want "cake", there probably won't be any "icing" either. I would like to see the options be more "ala-carte" as well. People like different kinds of "cake" and they like different "icing" on their "cake", some people even like to add "sprinkles". Mustangs (especially the new ones) are notoriously good at that, and I am hoping the 5th Gen will be the same in that respect.

David

Now I'm just damned hungry! :eek:

My Camaro has heated leather seats? I'll have to look for that switch.
At any rate, the 4th generation Camaro v-6 was identical on the exterior to the Z-28, save a couple badges. The hoods were the same, bumpers were the same, heck, even the spoilers were the same. The only real difference was tire size, and that was so small that it couldn't be seen without really getting in there and looking.
You can be sure that the 21 and 22 inch wheels are going away on this car, there's no sense in that for a street car, much less one that's supposed to be able to perform. As far as the exterior goes, it would be a lot more expensive to have the v-6 and v-8 have a different look. I really hope the v-6 car is a surefire hit, which I'm sure it will be. It only prolongs the life of the v-8 in the process.

I personally think the V6 Mustang looks cleaner than the GT with the lack of fog lights.
Honestly, I don't think "cleaner" is the word here... A V6 Mustang is ugly, the GT is more acceptable, and if you pay like $40k you can get an ok looking car.

I don't think the Base Camaro will be considered ugly to me, I don't think there is much to worry about.

Honestly, I don't think "cleaner" is the word here... A V6 Mustang is ugly, the GT is more acceptable, and if you pay like $40k you can get an ok looking car.

I don't think the Base Camaro will be considered ugly to me, I don't think there is much to worry about.

How about, the GT has too much sh!t going on in its grille?

Honestly, I don't think "cleaner" is the word here... A V6 Mustang is ugly, the GT is more acceptable, and if you pay like $40k you can get an ok looking car.

I don't think the Base Camaro will be considered ugly to me, I don't think there is much to worry about.

HUH? They look the same to me. What exactly is different other than the fogs and exhaust? Maybe the wheels?

smaller wheels and an ugly sticker package seems to be working great for Mustang, so why not for the Camaro?

I agree, the 2nd pair of round lights on the grill is not my cup of tea, but whatever, to each his own.

It will be interesting to see if the integrated duals make it to the v6. It's not like an extra stock muffler, if GM buys 100,000 of them, will be all that expensive, and shouldn't be difficult to assemble. They could just use a smaller diameter exhaust and tips on the v6 than the v8 models. This would definitely set it apart from the stang, and the v6 fourth gens had a y-pipe and duals, if I'm not mistaken, but I believe it was a single muffler, so its not without preceent. Heck my six-banger tiburon had duals standard.

Of course the 6-banger won't have the 20's, 17s or 18s will be plenty, IMO. Extend the body panel a little around the wheel well and most will hardy notice. IMO, this is probably the biggest holdup on a production announcement, they haven't even built a concept of the car they will produce the most of.

Now I'm just damned hungry! :eek:

:D Yeah, I was hungry when I wrote that :D .

David

At any rate, the 4th generation Camaro v-6 was identical on the exterior to the Z-28, save a couple badges. The hoods were the same, bumpers were the same, heck, even the spoilers were the same. The only real difference was tire size, and that was so small that it couldn't be seen without really getting in there and looking.



Yea the Z28 didn't have two rectangular exhaust tips or anything and the V6 with it's one single rounded exhaust tip.....

HUH? They look the same to me. What exactly is different other than the fogs and exhaust? Maybe the wheels?

Those fog lamps make a big enough difference in breaking up the void that is the Mustangs grille.

I think the GT is much better looking than the base model even though it's a pretty minor difference. (Though 'much better looking' means 'somewhat less boring.)

My Camaro has heated leather seats? I'll have to look for that switch...


Actually, most if not many vehicles from GM since the Camaro was canned have had heated seats mandatory with leather.

There's other examples of unnecessary items that others have been forced to get simply to get a single item.

Base 4th gens had Z28 wheels, and tire width was only 10mm narrower :shrug:

Actually for the first year or so the base model came with plastic hubcaps that looked horrible.

GM will do the V6 and every other model just fine. i'm more worried about it not coming out soon enough.

Actually, most if not many vehicles from GM since the Camaro was canned have had heated seats mandatory with leather.

There's other examples of unnecessary items that others have been forced to get simply to get a single item.

Well im sure you know how much it cost to make different wiring setups for gadgets... By offering "packages" They can keep cost down.

Im sure some people would like a fairly stipped down Camaro. But because that would be an individual and otherwise useless wiring setup, it would probably cost as much as a loaded Camaro.

NO hub caps or rusty turn down tail pipes!!!

The base V6 needs 17"s or 18"s and a nice dual exhust unlike the 4th gen.

I'd even like to see a 20" tire options for the V6 cars.

Solstice has 18"s and a low low base price, why can't the Camaro?

NO hub caps or rusty turn down tail pipes!!!

The base V6 needs 17"s or 18"s and a nice dual exhust unlike the 4th gen.

I'd even like to see a 20" tire options for the V6 cars.

Solstice has 18"s and a low low base price, why can't the Camaro?
20's on a camaro? Have you lost your mind.

I agree on finding a way to get rid of the "packages". I live in florida, heated seats with leather isn't bad during the cooler months, but people shouldn't have to buy them if they don't want too. I've been looking to get a car in recent months, my biggest pet peeve is how dealers and companies handle sunroofs. Most of a 1000 dollar option with a bunch of crap added on to it. I think that GM could make 1 or 2 wiring harnesses and then do some research to find out what are popular options and have them as ala carte items.
I think also the GM needs to make the V-6 look exactly like the V-8, sorry if that cheapens the v-8 look, but at this point, looks of a vehicle rate over performance.

I think the new Tahoe is a good example... although there aren't engine differences, the lower model and the LTZ don't have a huge difference between then from the outside looking in. Bigger wheels being the most obvious difference.