Subtleties that make a good car great.

Being a homegrown Detroit suburbia GM brat my entire life, it's blasphemous looking at a new Mustang and contemplating owning one. But what's a gear head to do when it's the only American muscle car that's deserving of such attention? Ford guys need not to get excited over a GM fan taking notice, trust me it's due to lack of options not lack of loyalty. With that said, one can only speculate my excitement and anticipation for the Camaro revival. Quite recently my step Father bought a 2006 Mustang GT and it is absolutely stunning. It's not the performance by any means necessary that makes me say that, it's the subtleties that make this good car great. Like how you can choose from 119 different colors for the gauges (that's a different color every other day) and if you hit the right buttons on the key fob your windows roll down and activate a sensor that triggers the alarm with any movement in the interior and how about different wheel options, all this from the factory! Any how, I hope the guys over at GM are thinking along the same path. I'd love the buy the top of the line Camaro with DVD navigation, or Bluetooth or even better a built in G-Tech Pro-like devise (Reaction-Time, 0-60mph time, 1/4 mile E.T. and speed, Horsepower & Torque, Braking distance and Handling G's). Do you think GM's paying attention or am I putting to much stock in attention to detail?

:)

Good post, yes I think GM knows their future products must have an attention to detail.

I also think the new Camaro will be a slam dunk in this respect.

I hope they do, i would love it if it came with some of those options.

Like:
Navi/Bluetooth
Fuel and trip computer
HUD
A Telemetry Computer like the Challenger Concept.
Gauge color options from in cockpit.
Different color trim, maybe a Satin Silver, and Piano Black
Different Wheel options
Maybe a subltle rally or bumble bee stripe
Brake Caliper Color options.

Unfortunatley, i bet only 1 or maybe 2 of these things will even be an option.

I can say for sure GM is paying attention to detail, and they are looking at what kinds of technology should be implemented in the 5th gen:

http://www.5thgen.org/forum/showthread.php?t=381

Apparently you have not heard of the new 400HP GTO?

I do like the new Mustang. I considered one before I bought my GTO. But I was keenly disappointed with the rear legroom and headroom in the Mustang... as well as interior quality (for example, the gauges are SO retro you can barely read them). Color-adjustable gauge lighting? I sincerely HOPE the next Camaro doesn't have such silly frills. Instead, make the Camaro what it's famous for - a king of performance value.

I think its smart actually..Mustang has gone to lengths to appeal to females...and say what you want about it being a Girl Car (which it is), at least you can go out and buy one still, which is more than I can say for our beloved F-car.

Mustang has gone to lengths to appeal to females...and say what you want about it being a Girl Car (which it is), at least you can go out and buy one still, which is more than I can say for our beloved F-car.

Agreed, females have been more likely to buy a Mustang than a Camaro, but does that make Mustang a Girl Car? Bob Crosby drove a Girl Car? I think not. I believe more females bought Firebirds than Camaros (among the very few that bought F-body cars in the first place), so does the same logic apply to the Firebird. I owned a Girl Car? Once again, I think not.

However, I respect your opinion, sort of. If females had stayed away from the Mustang the way they shunned the Camaro, the Mustang may also have been put "on hiatus". Buyers are what keep the production line running, the gender is irrelevant.

Girl car = a friendly jab at our Mustang friends. Try not to take me too seriously.

When I think of subtleties I don't think of gimmicks. I think subtleties are the material choices, ergonomics, the feel of things that are used on a regular basis, the readability of the gauges, the speed of the windows, the sounds of a door closing, the visibility, the placement of cup holders, road feel, the brake feel, long drive comfort, HVAC noise levels, solid armrests, firm door handles, etc., etc., etc., etc.

I would prefer all the subtleties be absolutely perfect before adding gimmicks like color changing dash lights.

Color-adjustable gauge lighting? I sincerely HOPE the next Camaro doesn't have such silly frills.

Ok, I must admit. I'd love to be able to change the color of the lighting. Why be stuck with what the manufacturer wants when you can change it? And it's a very minor thing. If you like the original color, just don't ever change it...

To me, attention to detail is more about interior quality, the way the doors close and small panel gaps than 'gimmicky' colored guage lighting and bells and whistles.

I'm sure the Monte Carlo can have all the bells and whistles, too but it just doesn't change the character of the car. What Mustang does have is character, and that's what sets it apart from other cars.

Camaro can't come soon enough!

To me, attention to detail is more about interior quality, the way the doors close and small panel gaps than 'gimmicky' colored guage lighting and bells and whistles.

I'm sure the Monte Carlo can have all the bells and whistles, too but it just doesn't change the character of the car. What Mustang does have is character, and that's what sets it apart from other cars.

Camaro can't come soon enough!
Agreed. The only wacky thing about the Mustang dash lights - to me anyway - it doesn't seem to be part of the character of Mustangs.

ive got some inside info through work that forces me to no longer be able to talk about the camaro...nanana na na na but i can honestly say that 119 color choices wont have **** on this if gm decides to build it

ive got some inside info through work that forces me to no longer be able to talk about the camaro...nanana na na na but i can honestly say that 119 color choices wont have **** on this if gm decides to build it
i hate you!!! you get me all excited

Everything I need for excitement about the new Camaro is already apparent from what is visible in plain sight :)

I also agree with an above post, what you're talking about on the Mustang is features...these are completely separate from subtleties.

http://www.camaroz28.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=117

^ that body line ^ there's a subtlety.

I don't really find many other subtleties right now since I haven't had a good chance to eyeball the car any closer than what the velvet ropes would allow, but given some time, I could find some more that make this design so great.

To me, attention to detail is more about interior quality, the way the doors close and small panel gaps than 'gimmicky' colored guage lighting and bells and whistles.

I'm sure the Monte Carlo can have all the bells and whistles, too but it just doesn't change the character of the car. What Mustang does have is character, and that's what sets it apart from other cars.

Camaro can't come soon enough!


Dont know what you call it but attention to detail is what I consider the important thing here :).

Some of you guys who think the Muffstain is the only american muscle car available for around $30k really should look at the new GTOs. You truly are missing out on a great car. One test drive and I was sold, and I'm not the only one. ;)

Some of you guys who think the Muffstain is the only american muscle car available for around $30k really should look at the new GTOs. You truly are missing out on a great car. One test drive and I was sold, and I'm not the only one. ;)
I second that! :cool:

When I think of subtleties I don't think of gimmicks. I think subtleties are the material choices, ergonomics, the feel of things that are used on a regular basis, the readability of the gauges, the speed of the windows, the sounds of a door closing, the visibility, the placement of cup holders, road feel, the brake feel, long drive comfort, HVAC noise levels, solid armrests, firm door handles, etc., etc., etc., etc.

I would prefer all the subtleties be absolutely perfect before adding gimmicks like color changing dash lights.I agree 100%

you have to think though, in todays day of "2 fast 2 furious" kids, something as simple as a dash board that uses fiber optic lighting to change colors at will is a decent idea. Im sure that it has sold some folks on the car versus say, a lancer or even a civic /accord...

but then agian i can be totally off base here..


would i want it in my camaro... no not really.. would i care if they offered it as an option.. no not at all.

-steve

I think its smart actually..Mustang has gone to lengths to appeal to females...and say what you want about it being a Girl Car (which it is),.....

Uh... no, Chris, it isn't. ;)

......anyway, the current Mustang:
* holds approximately 55% of the sporty coupe market.
* lowest priced 300 horsepower vehicle in the world.
* currently the lowest priced vehicle with 500 horsepower.
* The only American made, 4 passeneger, rear drive coupe.

Demographics (if intrested in numbers):
* 55% of Mustangs overall are sold to men.
* 51% of retail V6 sales are to females (almost identical to base and RS Camaro numbers).
* 70% of Mustang GT sales are to men.
* Median age of the Mustang buyer is 37, average age is 41.
* Median household income is about $57,000 per year
* GT convertible buyer profile is 63% male, and has a median income of $83,000 per year.

Putting all this into perspective:
* 85% of all Dodges are sold to men (an industry high).
* 53% of all Pontiacs are sold to women (another industry high).
* Vehicles with the higest number of female buyers (Eclipse and the Rav4)

Keep in mind that today depending on which figures you believe, somewhere between 55-60% of all new car buyers are women. Overall, Mustang's figures despite the wishful thinking of many people (you aren't the only one, Chris), Mustang isn't a "girly car", and was developed to appeal to a wide group of people.

But all this is still a moot point..... More men bought the new D2C Mustang since it's introduction (2 model years) than all Camaros sold the last 4 years of production... let alone that more men bought the last 2 years of Mustangs than roughly the number of guys who bought Camaros since roughly 1996.

Acura's NSX has yet to have a single female registration, but more men buy Corvettes (despite having 25-30% sales to females). It would be an act of utter desperation if the NSX guys started saying that Corvettes were girly cars. :lol:


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7965948

Some of you guys who think the Muffstain is the only american muscle car available for around $30k really should look at the new GTOs. You truly are missing out on a great car. One test drive and I was sold, and I'm not the only one. ;)

I prefer the GTO myself. Fully loaded, built like a tank (right down to engine skid plates :bow: ) and likely to still be in great shape when same year American cars are starting to sag, creak, and making wind noise.

But with the base Mustang GT at just over $25,000, and the fact that I don't need any options save the top stereo (I'd even delete the rear wing), that $5-8,000 difference makes the Stang nothing to sneeze at.

* The only American made, 4 passeneger, rear drive coupe.



PATHETIC! :mad:

Although that should change soon with, Camaro, CTC and Challenger. What is GTO 5 passenger?

bluetooth, heated leather seats, HUD, navigation. options, options, options.

give me something black and fast:metal:

....oh and t-tops:cool:

**** options. give me crank-up windows and old school locks.

and please, nothing bigger than 18" for the wheels. if it were up to me there'd be some fatass 15"s on instead...

Median age of the Mustang buyer is 37, average age is 41.What I find most interesting about this is Scott Settlemeyer's comment at Carlisle about them targeting the 20-25 crowd. I wonder if GM is trying to pull in different buyers rather than compete with Mustang, or if they're just trying to appeal to an additional demographic?

Something else that Scott mentioned is that when Mustang owners were polled what their 2nd choice was, answers like Grand Am and Cavalier were most popular. Doesn't sound like answers from a 41 year old crowd.

What I find most interesting about this is Scott Settlemeyer's comment at Carlisle about them targeting the 20-25 crowd. I wonder if GM is trying to pull in different buyers rather than compete with Mustang, or if they're just trying to appeal to an additional demographic?

Something else that Scott mentioned is that when Mustang owners were polled what their 2nd choice was, answers like Grand Am and Cavalier were most popular. Doesn't sound like answers from a 41 year old crowd.

Well Im pretty sure those numbers are generated by new car buyers only. So its quite possible a good percent of that is fathers buying their daughter a V6 stang. Also, as always most young people are buying used, so they aren't in that survey.

I think it would be more useful to know who Mustangs were REGISTERED to, but good luck getting that.

Well Im pretty sure those numbers are generated by new car buyers only. So its quite possible a good percent of that is fathers buying their daughter a V6 stang. Also, as always most young people are buying used, so they aren't in that survey.

I think it would be more useful to know who Mustangs were REGISTERED to, but good luck getting that.

Could also be fathers buying their sons Mustangs as well. ;)

There's always myths and urban legends when someone wants to justify the view that Mustangs are girl's cars, although there isn't a thread of evidence (right down to seeing the people who drive them... again, mostly men.... including the V6s).

You are right about the young buying used. However, the ones that buy new brings down the median and average age of buyers, and that's what Scott was refering to.

What I find most interesting about this is Scott Settlemeyer's comment at Carlisle about them targeting the 20-25 crowd. I wonder if GM is trying to pull in different buyers rather than compete with Mustang, or if they're just trying to appeal to an additional demographic?

Something else that Scott mentioned is that when Mustang owners were polled what their 2nd choice was, answers like Grand Am and Cavalier were most popular. Doesn't sound like answers from a 41 year old crowd.

Dont know if you sat in on a different seminar but if I remember correctly he said

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I have to appeal to the 25 to 29 crowd AS WELL AS the 40 something crowd or the car would not survive. (in responce to why the car was not more retro)

If someone who wasnt around during that era saw the car, hopefully they would see a new attractive sports car that they would buy.
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been a week since I heard him say it so I hope I got that right... It was my impression he was going after the younger crowd in addition to not instead of.