Tom Wallace says 600hp Blue Devil is a go.

The fact that he lists Z06 and Blue Devil seperately when mentioning the driving school leads me to further believe that Blue Devil is not "the next Z06", or will replace the Z06 in the lineup, but would rather become the next higher notch on the Corvette Ladder.


Link: http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060502/FREE/60501021/1024/TOC01ARCHIVE



To Hell and Back
Off-again/on-again super-Corvette is definitely on, GM performance cars chief says


AutoWeek | Published 05/01/06, 2:38 pm et



That off-again/on-again super-Corvette is definitely on, according to General Motors performance cars chief Tom Wallace.

Wallace, who replaced recently retired Corvette chief engineer Dave Hill, tells AutoWeek the biggest challenge facing the so-called Blue Devil Corvette is figuring out how to get 600 hp to the ground in such a way that it can be handled by a driver with the money to buy the car.

Wallace said GM is considering requiring that Blue Devil—and even Z06—buyers attend a driver school as part of the price of admission.

Wallace said GM is considering requiring that Blue Devil—and even Z06—buyers attend a driver school as part of the price of admission.


Smart man.....

Smart man.....
Doesn't Porche do this on some 911 models?

Hey, that was my idea like 5 YEARS ago for Camaro buyers in lieu of rebates!

The Z06 is too high volume to require a driving school. If they wanna do that with the blue devil, that's cool. In fact I think it's a good idea - will make the drivers more educated and will add to the alure of owning one - almost kinda like a higher end Ferrari.

BUT not on the regular Z06...

I made this suggestion (the driving school) when the first mention of a blue devil was made a couple years ago. I'm glad someone else is thinking along the same path.

The Z06 is too high volume to require a driving school. If they wanna do that with the blue devil, that's cool. In fact I think it's a good idea - will make the drivers more educated and will add to the alure of owning one - almost kinda like a higher end Ferrari.

BUT not on the regular Z06...
how many Z06's are they planning on selling annually?

I've been saying for some time now (in fact I once asked Scott S about it) that something is going to have to "give" in the ever increasing HP figures.

Mass produced vehicles capable of well in excess of 170-180MPH avaliable in large numbers to the public has a lot of potential for disaster.

Either the manufacturers are going to have to agree on a limit/some sort of system or the government will step in or insurance companies will simply refuse to insure drivers without proven driving skills.

Many years ago a read an C&D article about european insurance companies who base insurance rates on proven driver skills; for example, if someone took a high performance driving coursek like Bonderant, they would get a break on their insurance rates. I do also remember that in europe, cars are tagged with a designation that tells police how fast the car is allowed to go...that is, a teenager wasn't allowed to drive over a specified limit while and adult didn't have that restriction.

It seems to me that the US could benefit from such a system...the "driver training" we do here is a joke compared to truly knowing how to handle a car at speed or how to react to an emergency.

how many Z06's are they planning on selling annually?

As of 04/07/06, Z06 was 18% of total build for MY2006. 4511 units and counting.

http://www.corvetteconti.com/welcome/images/zoom/GTLFMM/06bash-86.jpg

I believe they are projecting Z06 to be 20% to 25% of the total build for MY2007....

how many Z06's are they planning on selling annually?

I think 25% of all vette sales are Z06's......50% Coupes and 25% Verts.....I'm not totally sure if those numbers are right, but I did read it somewhere....

Edit: Sorry Darth I answered this before I got to your post.....well it looks like I was close :)

I've been saying for some time now (in fact I once asked Scott S about it) that something is going to have to "give" in the ever increasing HP figures.

Mass produced vehicles capable of well in excess of 170-180MPH avaliable in large numbers to the public has a lot of potential for disaster.




I definately see your point... but...

Is there really that much more potential for mayhem with a 500 or even 600 hp car than there is with a 300 or 400 hp car?

I'd think it's not much, if any difference.

Plus, these cars are so expensive, they won't be in a lot of irresponsible hands anytime soon...

I'd actually think something of more concern is the 303 hp Monte Carlo SS's that can be had by almost anyone... or the 220 or whatever horsepower Solstice GXP's.

With that said, I still don't think it'd be all that different than it is today or in the past. A jackass behind the wheel is a jackass behind the wheel. Doesn't make a whole lot of difference if he's driving a Cavalier or a Corvette.

I would like to see insurance companies giving out decent discounts for people who have attended driving schools of some sort. And if you drive a performance vehicle, and attend a driving school, you get even more discount. Because honestly, as was stated before, our licensing system here is a complete joke. There are hundreds of thousands of people who should not be allowed within 10 feet of a car, yet they are driving huge SUV's or sports cars. I am ALL FOR a much stricter licensing program.

I would like to see insurance companies giving out decent discounts for people who have attended driving schools of some sort. And if you drive a performance vehicle, and attend a driving school, you get even more discount. Because honestly, as was stated before, our licensing system here is a complete joke. There are hundreds of thousands of people who should not be allowed within 10 feet of a car, yet they are driving huge SUV's or sports cars. I am ALL FOR a much stricter licensing program.

The government won't do it beause it just creates more expense for them or for the end user and more red tape.
I'm all for it being privatized but unfortunately most 'skilled' drivers are still more likely to get into trouble by using those skills in inappropriate situations.

Wild skilled drivers are just as much if not more dangerous than your average half-insane blue-haired doing half the speed limit and pulling out in front of oncoming traffic.

So if there was a way for them to determine people who are skilled/capable but are also responsible, then it'd be worth it - but then you're getting so complicated that any insurance company who moved to that 'system' would likely lose half its customers because they don't feel like going to a full fledged driving school just to keep from paying higher premiums, when the insurance company next door doesn't require it.

What if GM includes driving school lessons in the purchase price of the vehicle and makes it optional for the buyer? (What Z06 buyer would not want to flogg his new toy on the track if he could do so for "FREE"?)

The government won't do it beause it just creates more expense for them or for the end user and more red tape.
I'm all for it being privatized but unfortunately most 'skilled' drivers are still more likely to get into trouble by using those skills in inappropriate situations.

Wild skilled drivers are just as much if not more dangerous than your average half-insane blue-haired doing half the speed limit and pulling out in front of oncoming traffic.

So if there was a way for them to determine people who are skilled/capable but are also responsible, then it'd be worth it - but then you're getting so complicated that any insurance company who moved to that 'system' would likely lose half its customers because they don't feel like going to a full fledged driving school just to keep from paying higher premiums, when the insurance company next door doesn't require it.

They can just jack the prices up and give a "discout" for going to the school for a set amount of hp just like they do with anything else...

I HATE insurance companies. Claims adjusters are vultures...

I was going to say. "Only 600 hp?" But that does makes sense, thats a lot of power and considering the z06 hp to weight ratio any more and they would probably be approaching formula one.

The answer to the other question is to completely reform our drivers training. Test need to become stricter and more frequent once you get above 55, they need to be comprehensive for first timers and license renewals should require actual class time at least every other year. I think that would save a lot of lives. You wouldnt believe the **** I see people attempt on the road everyday, oh wait... Yes you would. :eek:

I definately see your point... but...

Is there really that much more potential for mayhem with a 500 or even 600 hp car than there is with a 300 or 400 hp car?

I'd think it's not much, if any difference.

Plus, these cars are so expensive, they won't be in a lot of irresponsible hands anytime soon...

I'd actually think something of more concern is the 303 hp Monte Carlo SS's that can be had by almost anyone... or the 220 or whatever horsepower Solstice GXP's.

With that said, I still don't think it'd be all that different than it is today or in the past. A jackass behind the wheel is a jackass behind the wheel. Doesn't make a whole lot of difference if he's driving a Cavalier or a Corvette.

You are right, horsepower alone is not the real problem but it is something easy to latch on to...all it takes for the government to step in is a couple of high profile accidents in high horsepower corvette's and we'll suddenly have a national crisis! :)

While a jackass is a jackass, most people who take a legitimate high-performance driving course come away not just with more knowledge and skills but with a changed attitude. So; I think any movement by GM or other nameplates to require or at least strongly encourage training/education is a good move; especially if it can be tied to an insurance deduction.

We have a similar concept in Tennessee with motorcycle endorsements on your DL...if you take the AMA safety course (a 2.5 day course with both classroom and actual riding) you get your MC endorsement from the motor vehicle bureau immediately and don't have to take the state test; you also get a break on your MC insurance.

The answer to the other question is to completely reform our drivers training. Test need to become stricter and more frequent once you get above 55, :

Too much revenue comes from raping the citizens with speeding tickets... Technically on most roads you arent supposed to go over 65, 75 on some rare roads (nowhere near MD that I know of) so technically they arent likely train you to do something illeagal.

Its discrimination against motivated drivers! Every time I get stuck behind someone doing 45 I think, This is a person who should be doing community service for holding up people who actually have to be somewhere.

Too much revenue comes from raping the citizens with speeding tickets... Technically on most roads you arent supposed to go over 65, 75 on some rare roads (nowhere near MD that I know of) so technically they arent likely train you to do something illeagal.

Its discrimination against motivated drivers! Every time I get stuck behind someone doing 45 I think, This is a person who should be doing community service for holding up people who actually have to be somewhere.

If you are driving fast simply because you have to be somewhere and you'll be late if you don't speed then you should have left earlier. :)

It's not an issue of training people how to drive fast or how to do "illegal things" with their cars...any idiot can push down the pedel and "speed".

It's about training people how to truly handle a vehicle...to make it "go" and "do" what they want it to do. Vehicles are subject to physical laws and since those laws don't change, it makes sense to understand them and how a vehicle acts/responds becasue of them.

You can't learn those things just from a book or by being able to recognize traffic signs or being able to park...those skills are needed but that's a far cry from being a skilled driver.

If you are driving fast simply because you have to be somewhere and you'll be late if you don't speed then you should have left earlier. :)

It's not an issue of training people how to drive fast or how to do "illegal things" with their cars...any idiot can push down the pedel and go fast.

It's about training people how to truly handle a vehicle...to make it "go" and "do" what they want it to do. Vehicles are subject to physical laws and since those laws don't change, it makes sense to understan them and how a vehicle acts/responds becasue of them.

You can't learn those things just from a book or by being able to recognize traffic signs or being able to park...those skills are needed but that's a far cry from being a skilled driver.

having to be somewhere as well as trying to make the 65 mile one way hike to work less time consuming... Ive been passed doing 80 on the DC beltway by PG county police more than a few times. It needs to be bumped up at least around here. Make it something people can get behind going after the nuts. Noone observes the speed limit and the off duty police are just as bad, Ive known a few. Its nothing more than a revenue generator.

I agree with what your saying but you have to admit, that if the govt were to do this you would be severly limited in what they would teach you. Where as if you take a performance class or GM included it in the package, It could include such things as learning to launch the car(as breaking traction is illegal), and How to react and properly handle the vehicle at speed.

We have a similar concept in Tennessee with motorcycle endorsements on your DL...if you take the AMA safety course (a 2.5 day course with both classroom and actual riding) you get your MC endorsement from the motor vehicle bureau immediately and don't have to take the state test; you also get a break on your MC insurance.
We also have that here in OH. I personally think it's a great idea and a good way to encourage people to actually learn more about their vehicles, etc.

I think we need to worry about all the teenagers that can afford $8000 LS1's instead of the handful of older gents. that spring for a Z06.

I think we need to worry about all the teenagers that can afford $8000 LS1's instead of the handful of older gents. that spring for a Z06.

Big time agree here. Theres a guy in my complex with a silver SS that spins the tires every chance he gets. Needless to say, I fear for the car's future. :rolleyes:

What if GM includes driving school lessons in the purchase price of the vehicle and makes it optional for the buyer? (What Z06 buyer would not want to flogg his new toy on the track if he could do so for "FREE"?)

That would be really cool. Maybe have a few Blue Devils and Z06's for the class and give the drivers a chance to really see what the car is capable of.

What if GM includes driving school lessons in the purchase price of the vehicle and makes it optional for the buyer? (What Z06 buyer would not want to flogg his new toy on the track if he could do so for "FREE"?)


I think that is the way to do it :thumb:

You are right, horsepower alone is not the real problem but it is something easy to latch on to...all it takes for the government to step in is a couple of high profile accidents in high horsepower corvette's and we'll suddenly have a national crisis! :)

While a jackass is a jackass, most people who take a legitimate high-performance driving course come away not just with more knowledge and skills but with a changed attitude. So; I think any movement by GM or other nameplates to require or at least strongly encourage training/education is a good move; especially if it can be tied to an insurance deduction.

We have a similar concept in Tennessee with motorcycle endorsements on your DL...if you take the AMA safety course (a 2.5 day course with both classroom and actual riding) you get your MC endorsement from the motor vehicle bureau immediately and don't have to take the state test; you also get a break on your MC insurance.


I can agree with most of what you are saying.... I'm all for special driving classes being included with the purchase price of a car like this. Heck, it'd probably be worthwhile, though far too expensive, to do it with ANY car.

One issue I can see, though, is logistics... unless Chevy is will to foot the bill for travel to and from and hotel accomadations, etc... you will have issues with people who do not live close to a driving school.

I can agree with most of what you are saying.... I'm all for special driving classes being included with the purchase price of a car like this. Heck, it'd probably be worthwhile, though far too expensive, to do it with ANY car.

One issue I can see, though, is logistics... unless Chevy is will to foot the bill for travel to and from and hotel accomadations, etc... you will have issues with people who do not live close to a driving school.
I think it's pretty simple, just build it into the price of the car. A Blue Devil is gonna cost like 100k anyways, and I'm sure Chevy could get it discounted or something if they go with one exclusive driving school, because that's good business for that school and great publicity for it as well.

Replace the joke that is "Drivers Ed" with autocross (even on karts) and we wouldnt need auto insurance.

(blanket statement, I know. Just read and move along :))

I can only add that there was a new Z06 running last weekend's autox with us and the car (evidently) takes a lot of getting used to. As soon as he'd give the car any gas it'd go sideways, but the lot was cold and so were tires.

His best run was a 56.546. I went 57.214 in the GTO if you're curious and I'm a terrible driver (ftd for a car was 48.9xx).

I can only add that there was a new Z06 running last weekend's autox with us and the car (evidently) takes a lot of getting used to. As soon as he'd give the car any gas it'd go sideways, but the lot was cold and so were tires.

His best run was a 56.546. I went 57.214 in the GTO if you're curious and I'm a terrible driver (ftd for a car was 48.9xx).

He definetly wasn't driving well...I autocross quite a bit and we have some of the best SCCA drivers in the country in our region; it's rare that the C5s or C6s don't trke FTD (at least of the vehicles with doors) :)

Danny Popp took FTD for cars in an 86 C4. He's insane. I would have loved to see him run that Z06.

Bring on the Blue Devil!!

The only thing that bothers me about this car is the fact that people who usually have the money for these super cars do not respect cars nor the power they are capable of.

There have been and their will be more of older folks who get their hands on a Ferrari, S7, etc. That have split them in half or shredded them. I have heard of big shot business men killing themselves in their Ferrari cause they though they were capable of handling a car at 200+ mph. I know of one that lived near to me. I worry for the innocent people that may get hurt or even killed cause these guys don’t understand or respect his car under given circumstances.

I think a driving school would be a great idea, however, I don't see it happening realistically.

I really wish that they would teach people better in drivers’ education period. Most of the people on the road drive like they have half a year of experience.

Sorry little long winded,

~Jim~

well here are my thoughs. i was against the driving school at first but now im all for it and to be honest if they require it for the blue devil it should at least be offered for the z06. but where would it be? would you have to fly some where to go to a driving school? will there only be one or a few?

and last but not least as great as an idea as it is to require this driving school when the car get sold as a privet party sale no one will be able to chase the 2nd 3rd or 4th owner down to say hey budy you didnt go to the driving school you cant own that.

Talk about resurrection.

I think we need to worry about all the teenagers that can afford $8000 LS1's instead of the handful of older gents. that spring for a Z06.


Now THAT'S a great point!

That's the fear I have with this new age of 400+ horsepower cars. If they are made in any volume, sooner or later they are going to be cheap enough for anyone saving up with an afterschool and summer job to buy.

At least supercharged Cobras are rare enough that they are still keeping prices above "tenager" range.

BassPro, now why would the rich guy be concerned with us simpletons, when he's busy getting his kicks. That's rediculous!

Now THAT'SThat's the fear I have with this new age of 400+ horsepower cars. If they are made in any volume, sooner or later they are going to be cheap enough for anyone saving up with an afterschool and summer job to buy.
That's why I posed the question "How Much Horsepower is Too Much?" in a thread a week or so ago...I don't think I'm being an alarmist when I say that if the industry doesn't step in of its own accord to help ensure drivers buying these cars can handle them then I believe either State or the Federal government will.

We all know that "Driver's Education" courses are a joke and it's fair to say that most people are far less capable drivers than they think they are and that includes the driving skills of most "enthusiasts".

Personally, I'd much rather see the manufacturers who make the cars step in than any government involvement.

What happens to cars like the Camaro and Mustang and Corvette and others if insurance companies decided they are just too risky to insure or makes the insurance so expensive that most people won’t be able to afford it?

I read all 3 pages and saw no mention of SVT's policy on Cobra R models anywhere.
Are there no SVT peeps on this board at all!?!?

Ford/SVT REQUIRED an SCCA license or equivalent (could be a higher sanctioning body or race forum like IMSA, NASCAR, F1, etc) before they would sell you a Cobra R model.
They refused to sell to common public - and were praised for it.

"SVT de-contented and added items from their parts bins and built race-only versions of the Cobra (as Shelby had done with the Shelby-R) to compete in IMSA and SCCA. In '93 only about 100 were produced and they were mostly bought up by collectors rather than racers. In '95 250 were built and sold only to those having a racing license."
Ford's Special Vehicle Teams (http://home.pon.net/hunnicutt/history_svt.htm)

I'm not sure, but I think the same applies to the current "Boy-Racer" Mustangs that are being sold for $120k to the GT-series teams.

The 2000 Cobra R (http://www.mustangworld.com/ourpics/News/mwcobraR/)IS STILL faster than any subsequent Mustang from Ford - including the 2003/2004 Cobras and the GT500.
They were street-legal race cars... no radio, rear seat delete no spare, etc.
They MSRP'ed for $55,000 so they were not exotic in price, but their performance was incredible (for 7 years ago).
It was realized that "everyone" that gets behind a wheel today thinks you can simply stomp on the gas pedal at any time to go as fast as possible... not so in these 400-500 hp cars, you'll go round and round unless traction control is on in which case you simply get going faster than you can get stopped so you end up plowing somebody. It takes skill and understanding of basic laws of physics to control such power on the streets. Nevermind the unexpected things that jump out like deer, kids, and unattentive drivers doing stupid things.

As for the 600hp... I'm out.
Enough is enough.
I'm not even a huge fan of the GT500, but the next Viper and this Blue Devil are pushing us into a window best left untouched IMO.
Like in the C&D article in another thread... the Lotus Elise at 190hp and a mere 1980lbs put the hurts on 400-500hp cars, at a $44k base and a $54k "as-tested" price. It's time we stop the gas-burning persuit of stratospheric HP figures, and start looking at the economical (as well as performance-enhancing :D ) virtues of weight reduction.

The end is near my friends... someone or something will bring down this glass house of hp... maybe when one of these rockets gets plowed through a crowded mall or when a congressman's son is killed by one... it's coming.

It's time we stop the gas-burning persuit of stratospheric HP figures, and start looking at the economical (as well as performance-enhancing :D ) virtues of weight reduction.


Proud,

If any car can make the case that it has aggressively pursued weight reduction to enhance performance, that car is Corvette. They're lighter, by a good long ways, than their direct competition (Viper, 911, etc...).

Now, I don't think a 4000 lbs. Camaro would be a good statement relative to your point, just like the heavy GT500 and the Chrysler RWD SRT cars, but I think arguing that Corvette is unnecessarily porky is spurious.

Here's my comment on 600hp:

Let 'em hang :D

Here's my comment on 600hp:

Let 'em hang :D


They might hang lower than that...

Proud,

If any car can make the case that it has aggressively pursued weight reduction to enhance performance, that car is Corvette. They're lighter, by a good long ways, than their direct competition (Viper, 911, etc...).

Now, I don't think a 4000 lbs. Camaro would be a good statement relative to your point, just like the heavy GT500 and the Chrysler RWD SRT cars, but I think arguing that Corvette is unnecessarily porky is spurious.

Never said the vette was porky - not in any way!!! :no:
The vette rocks solidly IMO, and GM's effort to keep weight down is magnificent. It's gains and the benefit are PRECISELY why it pounds on the GT500 so bad - we all know this.

I'z making a statement that more HP is not as necessary as weight management.

And you have to admit, even at a very slim 3000lbs, the (regular C6) vette got handed it's buttoxes by the 190hp Lotus at 1980lbs. (at roughly equal pricing too BTW)
Even worse to think about how the Lotus stacks up against the 500hp GT500. :shame:

As for the 600hp... I'm out.
Enough is enough.
I'm not even a huge fan of the GT500, but the next Viper and this Blue Devil are pushing us into a window best left untouched IMO.
Like in the C&D article in another thread... the Lotus Elise at 190hp and a mere 1980lbs put the hurts on 400-500hp cars, at a $44k base and a $54k "as-tested" price. It's time we stop the gas-burning persuit of stratospheric HP figures, and start looking at the economical (as well as performance-enhancing :D ) virtues of weight reduction.

The end is near my friends... someone or something will bring down this glass house of hp... maybe when one of these rockets gets plowed through a crowded mall or when a congressman's son is killed by one... it's coming.I'm with you on not wanting cars to get crazy heavy (and then needing stratospheric power to overcome it), but as Pacer said, that isn't really the case with the Vette (or even the Viper). The Vette/Z06 are simply beautifully engineered high performance cars. Making a 600 hp version would simply be to elevate to another performance stratosphere, not to overcome some deficiencies in weight.

As for the Lotus Elise, that is indeed a great car if one can afford to have a car purely as a 30 minute blast car, purely as a toy. Sadly, newer cars are getting heavier and heavier (as we all know) because people want all the the luxo goodies, and people want safety. I know I'd much rather be in a Vette (or new Camaro) than an Elise if the idiot in the Ram or Expedition decided to run the light and t-bone me. :eek: The Elise is surely a wonderful car in its own right, but it is very nearly a track only car. A Vette (yes, even the firebreathing Z06) can be driven daily in comfort and relative safety. One would hope that a 600+ hp version would be relegated to joydriving status though... :)

As an aside, I'd like to have seen how the Elise did against the Vette with both on the same real street tires, or both on the same barely legal gumballs that were on that Elise (referring to the Car and Driver Lightning Lap article). I'd also like to know if the Vette they drove included the Z51 package.

Never said the vette was porky - not in any way!!! :no:
The vette rocks solidly IMO, and GM's effort to keep weight down is magnificent. It's gains and the benefit are PRECISELY why it pounds on the GT500 so bad - we all know this.

I'z making a statement that more HP is not as necessary as weight management.

And you have to admit, even at a very slim 3000lbs, the (regular C6) vette got handed it's buttoxes by the 190hp Lotus at 1980lbs. (at roughly equal pricing too BTW)
Even worse to think about how the Lotus stacks up against the 500hp GT500. :shame:

We agree then!

***GASP***

Anyhoo, we also have to realize where a LOT of weight comes from - creature comforts, the need to keep costs down, powertrain doo-dads to help with emisions and fuel economy, and safety.

The Lotus is a really nifty little car, but I surely don't fit in one. The closest thing GM having being Kappa - but Kappa has a WHOLE BUNCH of stuff on it that the Lotus really doesn't. The target market being a large part of the reasoning behind that content - Kappas, although very performance oriented in the turbocharged variants, are going to have a high percentage of female buyers or males buyers that merely want a "sporty" ride and style, and not a 10/10ths performance car like the Lotus.

I agree about the Lotus, sweet ride, kind of ugly, but enough unique to really set it off. But I also could not fit in one well. I was barely fitting in the Kappa's.

I am waiting for these car companies to hit the ceiling as well. I still can't imagine a 600+ HP Corvette weighing less than the current Z06 though.

600 hp. Wow, I wonder what DCX has cooking as a Viper "King of the Hill."