Interesting (new) Camaro/Oshawa Article...

... in today's Business section of the Toronto Star. The Star tends to make these articles unavailable after the day on which they are printed (unless you are a paid online subscriber), so I'll do a paste here.
GM Canada and the local regional government look to be trying their darndest... for 2008, however.
Makes one go "Hm-m-m-m":think:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1143672622791&call_pageid=970599119419
Tax cuts needed to get Camaro, GM says
Oshawa needs jobs, governments being told

Durham vows to consider reduction for 2007
Mar. 30, 2006. 01:00 AM
STAN JOSEY
STAFF REPORTER


General Motors Corp. is shopping for government tax reductions to support building a new car at its mammoth Oshawa complex.

Top executives have been at meetings in Oshawa and Durham Region in recent days asking for a reduction in GM's local tax bill of $25 million.

Queen's Park (seat of Ontario's government) is getting the same pitch tomorrow — please cut taxes so Oshawa can become home to a reinvention of the Camaro muscle car.

Oshawa Mayor John Gray has his council behind GM's request for an immediate end to a large industry surtax in Durham Region.

But Durham Region Council, which must make the final decision, yesterday rejected an immediate tax cut of about $500,000 for GM — but said it will consider a reduction for 2007.

Last November, GM announced a major restructuring that will include the loss of a production shift and an Oshawa assembly line, about 3,500 jobs.

Just the talk of this big a job loss in Canada's largest automotive centre has sent shock waves through the local business community and United Way donations tumbling.

Miriam Christie, GM Canada's manager of corporate affairs, told regional council yesterday that if GM decides to revive the Camaro, with production beginning in 2008, Oshawa must still line up at the door in Detroit and make its case to the top brass.


"We will have to make our case as the production case sometime this summer," Christie told council. "Every little advantage we can show at the table increases our prospects of being picked."

GM recently won concessions from the Canadian Auto Workers geared toward making a business case for building the Camaro in Oshawa. Other vehicles could follow, Christie said, thanks to a new flexible assembly line that will allow product changes without massive retooling.

Durham Region already has a plan in place to level the tax playing field for large industries in the region by 2009, said chairman Roger Anderson — advanced to 2008 last week, after GM's pitch.

"If the new car is not gong to be produced here until 2008, couldn't you just tell head office what the tax deal will be in that year?" he asked.

Best regardSS,

Elie

Zeta at Oshawa is essentially a foregone conclusion. Oshawa has the same exclusive deal on the Impala, Monte Carlo, Regal, and Grand Prix names that Ste. Therese had on Camaro & Firebird. GM still has the option of calling their zeta cars Belair, Chevelle, and G8, but I somehow think GM is wanting to keep those names available.

Camaro seems like it's being used as a carrot. It can easily be done at Wilmington, and infact is actually better if it's done there for quite a few reasons. But GM has already gotten major concessions from the CAW. If they also get massive tax breaks from the governments there, these 2 items plus the security of making Camaro on a high volume assembly line might be too much to resist.

But for now, I'm still thinking Wilmington.

It can easily be done at Wilmington, and infact is actually better if it's done there for quite a few reasons.
I don't suppose you'd be willing to elaborate...

Zeta at Oshawa is essentially a foregone conclusion. Oshawa has the same exclusive deal on the Impala, Monte Carlo, Regal, and Grand Prix names that Ste. Therese had on Camaro & Firebird. GM still has the option of calling their zeta cars Belair, Chevelle, and G8, but I somehow think GM is wanting to keep those names available.

Camaro seems like it's being used as a carrot. It can easily be done at Wilmington, and infact is actually better if it's done there for quite a few reasons. But GM has already gotten major concessions from the CAW. If they also get massive tax breaks from the governments there, these 2 items plus the security of making Camaro on a high volume assembly line might be too much to resist.

But for now, I'm still thinking Wilmington.
As a Canadian living 30 min. from Oshawa and having visited the Ste. Therese plant twice, there's nothing more I'd like to see than the Camaro built in Oshawa... actually yes... there is something I'd like more... and that is to see this car built ASAP!!
If it can be in the showrooms faster by being built in Wilmington (which is what I suspect as well, given the production timetables at Oshawa), then I'll be one very happy camper!:D

Best regardSS,

Elie

Camaro seems like it's being used as a carrot. It can easily be done at Wilmington, and infact is actually better if it's done there for quite a few reasons. But GM has already gotten major concessions from the CAW. If they also get massive tax breaks from the governments there, these 2 items plus the security of making Camaro on a high volume assembly line might be too much to resist.

But for now, I'm still thinking Wilmington.
GM is using the Camaro to make more profit on their higher volume cars. That's a good idea if you ask me :)

... in today's Business section of the Toronto Star. The Star tends to make these articles unavailable after the day on which they are printed (unless you are a paid online subscriber), so I'll do a paste here.
GM Canada and the local regional government look to be trying their darndest... for 2008, however.
Makes one go "Hm-m-m-m":think:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1143672622791&call_pageid=970599119419


Best regardSS,

Elie


The last paragraph is interesting...to me.

I don't suppose you'd be willing to elaborate...

Wilmington is available as soon as Camaro's gestation is done, and won't have to wait for a model run to finish. Oshawa won't be available till at least 2009 model year, while Wilmington's available now.

Wilmington would be the world's "Bowling Green" of GM's affordable performance cars like Camaro and Solstice.

It keeps Wilmington alive when the inevitable drop off in demand for GM's budget sport cars (Solstice-Sky-Opel GT) happens.

If GM plans to export Monaro's replacement, and it's based on Camaro instead of the large Zetas, I imagine it would be cheaper and perhaps easier shipping them out of Deleware's ports than Oshawa.... 12 months of the year.

Oshawa's going to be busy enough making 200K Impala replacements, 120K+ Grand Prix replacements (front OR RWD*), 50K+ Zeta Buicks**, & the GTO, let alone adding 100K+ Camaros & Monaro replacements and the remote possibility of Utes being done here***.


NOTES:
*Oshawa's flexable assembly will make both FWD & RWD cars, and it seems probable that Grand Prix will get a restyling soon making it unlikely it will be completely replaced by Zeta in 2009... though adding a RWD sedan is still on Pontiac's proposals.

**Assuming Zeta Buicks aren't imported from Holden.

***Still most likely to be done in Australia if GM-NA finds it in itself to approving the thing.

Wilmington is available as soon as Camaro's gestation is done, and won't have to wait for a model run to finish. Oshawa won't be available till at least 2009 model year, while Wilmington's available now.

Wilmington would be the world's "Bowling Green" of GM's affordable performance cars like Camaro and Solstice.

It keeps Wilmington alive when the inevitable drop off in demand for GM's budget sport cars (Solstice-Sky-Opel GT) happens.

If GM plans to export Monaro's replacement, and it's based on Camaro instead of the large Zetas, I imagine it would be cheaper and perhaps easier shipping them out of Deleware's ports than Oshawa.... 12 months of the year.

Oshawa's going to be busy enough making 200K Impala replacements, 120K+ Grand Prix replacements (front OR RWD*), 50K+ Zeta Buicks**, & the GTO, let alone adding 100K+ Camaros & Monaro replacements and the remote possibility of Utes being done here***.


NOTES:
*Oshawa's flexable assembly will make both FWD & RWD cars, and it seems probable that Grand Prix will get a restyling soon making it unlikely it will be completely replaced by Zeta in 2009... though adding a RWD sedan is still on Pontiac's proposals.

**Assuming Zeta Buicks aren't imported from Holden.

***Still most likely to be done in Australia if GM-NA finds it in itself to approving the thing.
So this line of thinking sounds like it just makes a whole lot of sense! Not being an industry insider has sure opened up my eyes to the fact that there are just [B]way[B] more factors that influence these decisions than I can even begin to comprehend... every time it looks like all the ducks are in a row, I see a curve ball coming in that knocks all those ducks down!:shock:
Maybe Scott will be able to put all these factors into their proper perpective and explain the true story as it has unfolded over the years!:D

Best regardSS,

Elie

Wilmington is available as soon as Camaro's gestation is done, and won't have to wait for a model run to finish. Oshawa won't be available till at least 2009 model year, while Wilmington's available now.

Wilmington would be the world's "Bowling Green" of GM's affordable performance cars like Camaro and Solstice.

It keeps Wilmington alive when the inevitable drop off in demand for GM's budget sport cars (Solstice-Sky-Opel GT) happens.

If GM plans to export Monaro's replacement, and it's based on Camaro instead of the large Zetas, I imagine it would be cheaper and perhaps easier shipping them out of Deleware's ports than Oshawa.... 12 months of the year.

Oshawa's going to be busy enough making 200K Impala replacements, 120K+ Grand Prix replacements (front OR RWD*), 50K+ Zeta Buicks**, & the GTO, let alone adding 100K+ Camaros & Monaro replacements and the remote possibility of Utes being done here***.


NOTES:
*Oshawa's flexable assembly will make both FWD & RWD cars, and it seems probable that Grand Prix will get a restyling soon making it unlikely it will be completely replaced by Zeta in 2009... though adding a RWD sedan is still on Pontiac's proposals.

**Assuming Zeta Buicks aren't imported from Holden.

***Still most likely to be done in Australia if GM-NA finds it in itself to approving the thing.
Thanks Guy! This line of thinking sounds like it just makes a whole lot of sense! Not being an industry insider has sure opened up my eyes to the fact that there are just [B]way[B] more factors that influence these decisions than I can even begin to comprehend... every time it looks like all the ducks are in a row, I see a curve ball coming in that knocks all those ducks down!:shock:
Maybe Scott will be able to put all these factors into their proper perpective in his book and explain the true story as it has unfolded over the years!:D

Best regardSS,

Elie

There's a better parts base surrounding Oshawa, and with incentives it looks like it's the favorite for the Camaro. Huge parts factories are only a couple of hours away in all directions, including Detroit, Kitchener, St. Catherines, Windsor and upstate NY.

With the right incentives (and it looks like GM with have its way to a large extent) I'm sure we'll see a Camaro for 2008 in Oshawa. Personally, I just want them to get it done.

June or July is when we'll know in Oshawa if we're getting the camaro or anything at all.

The big rumor around the plant is that plant#2 (Lacrosse/GP) would inherit the task of building the MC and Impala to make sure plant #1 can start building a flex manufacturing system.

This would make a lot of sense since plant 2 is only working 2 shifts and are derating line speed to 55 jobs per hour and plant 1 is also slowing line speeds by 7% since the MC is having slow sales. GM has previously said that it was supposed to close the 3rd shift in plant 1 but have since postponed it since they got back in the fleet sales business with the impala.

When and if they do halt selling to fleet, that would make it perfect for plant#2 to produce all these cars while plant 1 is renovated.

So as soon as they anounce what we're getting, it will be easier to guess when the product will hit the showroom.

I wouldn't worry about plant 1 and it's inability to make the camaro since plant 2 can finish off production of its cars and then close down in 08.

It's going to be an interseting summer.....I hope.

The big rumor around the plant is that plant#2 (Lacrosse/GP) would inherit the task of building the MC and Impala to make sure plant #1 can start building a flex manufacturing system.

.

Any idea on how much "flex" there is in the flex manufacturing system? Do you foresee more than one architecture going down the same assembly line?

Any idea on how much "flex" there is in the flex manufacturing system? Do you foresee more than one architecture going down the same assembly line?

I'm not that familiar with the flex manufacturing system but from what I understand they could have FWD with RWD or different architectures allowing 4 or 5 different models to be built together.

What would make more sense though would be to have most models sharing the same architecture and components and commonize parts, especially for logistic reasons. I think the replacement for Impala will be RWD anyways so I'd imagine it to be on a Zeta based chassis just like camaro. There will be no need to build 4-5 cars on that line since both these cars should keep everyone busy for a 1plant 3shift operation.

But from what I understand IF the need is there, they can switch to a different model with minimal down time when using a flex system.

I'm not that familiar with the flex manufacturing system but from what I understand they could have FWD with RWD or different architectures allowing 4 or 5 different models to be built together.

What would make more sense though would be to have most models sharing the same architecture and components and commonize parts, especially for logistic reasons. I think the replacement for Impala will be RWD anyways so I'd imagine it to be on a Zeta based chassis just like camaro. There will be no need to build 4-5 cars on that line since both these cars should keep everyone busy for a 1plant 3shift operation.

But from what I understand IF the need is there, they can switch to a different model with minimal down time when using a flex system.

That's interesting stuff LT1 PWRD. Which brings up the BIG question: If Camaro and Impala production take up one plant completely, will GMNA want to make the case for a second Zeta plant, (which would not be fully utilized BTW), for Pontiac/Buick/etc. variants?

That's interesting stuff LT1 PWRD. Which brings up the BIG question: If Camaro and Impala production take up one plant completely, will GMNA want to make the case for a second Zeta plant, (which would not be fully utilized BTW), for Pontiac/Buick/etc. variants?


It's hard to say since I'm not sure what's in the pipeline. Many members on this board know much more than I do. ;)

We were originaly slated to get the G8 (Replacement of Bonneville) and now everybody keeps mentionning the camaro so who knows. There should be a new Pontiac as well so if they do bring out a G8 it may or may not be built in Oshawa. I think that GM won't bring a new replacement for the Bonneville but will just bring out a replacement for the Grand Prix called the G8. These are just speculations of my part.

I just think that demand for a Camaro and new Impala should be enough to keep a single flex plant in Oshawa busy for a while. If a comparison was made with the Brampton plant building the 300C/Magnum/Charger and soon Challenger was made, who knows what kind of output a single plant in Oshawa could have, maybe a Pontiac or Buick variant could be added as well. :confused:


Martin