Test mule spotted in Nevada!!!! Camaro??? [Archive]

95nicotineZ

03-19-2006, 11:15 PM

No BS here, this was what happened:

I was driving down US-395 today through the Carson Valley towards Minden, NV. I saw three black vehicles in a row ahead of me and thought they might be testers. There was a new bodystyle Avalanche in front, a black camoflaged car in the middle, and ANOTHER black camoflage car in the back. Three in all, all three with blue Michigan MFR plates. The Avalanche was taped off in a few places but otherwise open. We all know what it looks like anyways. Maybe a Hybrid or E85 tester?

The SECOND car is what I believe was an early test mule for 5th gen Camaro running gear. Honestly. It was short, wide and had what looked like 2003-2004 5-lug Monte Carlo wheels painted black with no centre caps. The front end had cutouts for the headlights and grille but I couldn't see it clearly through the mesh. The lights were projector and were on. Not HID but bright. I did not see any foglights (or cutouts for them). Grille was also black and there was a good-sized intake below it. The taillights were small and LED. They looked similar to the concept but were more slitlike. These had oval cutouts in the camo. The reversing lights were in the bumper on each side of the license plate. There were two exhausts and a distinctive tone, much like (for lack of a better description) my dad's 1999 C5. Definitely V8. The wheels had good-size rotors and calipers, much like the GTO. There were antennae all over the place, and the dash (from what I could see) was pretty much covered with test gear. I did notice a pod-like setup to the dash, like an old Corvette. The driver gave me quite a look when I rolled next to him in my 1995 Red Z28. I truly believe what I saw was an early Camaro mule based on CTS-V or GTO running gear.

The last car was a 4-door sedan, about the size of a Malibu or Impala. It also was heavily camoed and had dual exhaust. The tone was low and might be either a HO V6 or a V8. The headlights were on and they looked like projectors. It also had LED taillights but they were vertical! The door design was striking; the doors had an upslant to them much like a CTS or STS. The driver of this car never looked at me and was on a cell phone. This might have been a new CTS or a Bel-Air tester.

I work at a GM dealership and get to hear all kinds of rumours and chat but this one takes it. They must have been doing cold-weather testing or something. I was actually thinking of stopping and getting one of those disposable cameras, but they would have been gone by the time I got it and caught up to them. I'm getting a friggin' digital camera now for SURE. We see cold-weather testers all the time here and can't miss another. I hope to see them again!

More later (I hope)

-Dave

Z 2 L8ter

03-19-2006, 11:24 PM

Man, that would be a dream come true!!! I'm gonna have to mail my digital out to you lol;)

V8 Slayer

03-19-2006, 11:26 PM

Are you saying there is a prototype, complete and already on the road..? I have to call BS :bs:

5thgen69camaro

03-19-2006, 11:32 PM

Is it normal to test mutilple cars at once? Dont they put black steel hubcapless wheels on these specifically so you see little as possible? I call dream :D

95nicotineZ

03-19-2006, 11:36 PM

stars1010

03-19-2006, 11:38 PM

Are you saying there is a prototype, complete and already on the road..? I have to call BS :bs:

It may be possible.... prototypes come in different stages and months or years ahead of production…. (im still thinking mid 2008 release as a 2009)

Especially since he saw a sedan right after it....(different sizes will be on this platform)

The Global RWD (used to be known as Zeta) is farther along than most people think.....

Alpha cars maybe????

MasterEvilAce

03-19-2006, 11:40 PM

What about details? Such as the exhaust location, or ANYTHING else?

You honestly couldn't tell if it was a camaro or not?

V8 Slayer

03-19-2006, 11:42 PM

The CONCEPT just hit the world 2 months ago! And they already have a running model? Give me a break... The thing is probably not even complete on paper yet.. (I'm not talking about Zeta, but Camaro) How does he know they were even GM cars??

95nicotineZ

03-20-2006, 12:00 AM

Yes, they do test more than one at a time. I also saw a couple testers of Asian origin (the drivers were Asian, okay?) about three months ago. One was a 4-door and the vehicle in front of it was an SUV, both camoed. Probably new Kia Sorento or similar. The sedan had a weird grille like the Amanti poking through the mesh in the front. We also used to have Porsche NA based close to here in Reno and we saw the (then new) Boxster testing with about six other Porsches, some uncamoed. So yes, they do test more than one at a time.

Or they have uncamoed existing models "escorting" them. Here's an example:

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f380/fffourtwenty/hyundaitesters3.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f380/fffourtwenty/hyundaitesters2.jpg

Hmmm... looks like this tester has FOUR escort cars... Would it be a good idea to have an untested model driving around without aid if something fails? Ask Brenda Priddy of Hidden Image if she's seen more than one tester at a time. ;) I call unbelievers :rolleyes:

-Dave

MasterEvilAce

03-20-2006, 12:00 AM

95nicotineZ

03-20-2006, 12:14 AM

Well... I'm guessing they were GM cars since there was an UNDISGUISED AVALANCHE escorting them :rolleyes:

Perhaps a new GM model escorted by Toyotas? Or Fords? I don't think so. What else could it be?

The exhaust was located in cutouts in the rear bumper cover. They were round tips. The mules were pretty dirty and there was a TON of tape and test implements sticking out of everywhere.

I honestly couldn't say what it was exactly, and that's the reason for the huge amounts of crude camo covering them. If I did announce "New Camaro for SURE", you know there'd be all KINDS of naysayers and BS callers. I'm just telling you what I saw, what they were escorted by, and where they were headed. US 395 South, towards California (or Southern Nevada). I hope somone else sees them and gets a good pic. :D

-Dave

V8 Slayer

03-20-2006, 12:24 AM

No, they were headed to Area 51... :cool:

95nicotineZ

03-20-2006, 01:00 AM

Area 51? Let's hope the drivers can stay awake for THAT drive :o

-Dave

95nicotineZ

03-20-2006, 02:15 AM

Okay, after spending several hours on the net, I found this picture which I'm pretty sure is the last car I saw in the trio. Maybe the new CTS-V? The lower front end was EXACTLY like this. :D

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f380/fffourtwenty/07CTS.jpg

The Avalanche looked like this one, but with a different grille, current-style steel wheels and antennae all over it - but NO camo.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f380/fffourtwenty/avalanche2007.jpg

Might have been a hacked 2007 Silverado with an Avalanche rear? Who knows. If it was a 2007 Silverado they should have covered the front end! It was Silver Birch, like a darker silver colour.

As for the other car I saw, the middle one in the pack? Camaro? Guess we'll find out soon enough. The rear taillights were more flat and slitlike than the concept and there was back-up lights on each side of the license plate. The front end of the mule I saw was much different from the concept, at least what I could see "through" the camo. The mule didn't look like it had the chevron-like downslope of the concept. Hurry up, GM. :yes:

-Dave

guionM

03-20-2006, 07:31 AM

Although Neveda, Arizona, and southern California are hotbeds of prototype and mule testing from July to September, I don't see any purpose in testing there now. GM can rack up tons of mileage on their own proving grounds around the world, and if I can easily spot these cars on the road when I was in the area, anyone who makes a living taking spy pics can certainly bag enough of these cars to preclude anyone from driving on public roads if they don't have to.

I'm not dismissing the sightings out of hand, though. Although Holden already did the component work, putting them in a lighter Camaro or Impala-Belair is going to require some testing (though no where as extreme or as long as normal).

If this sighting is real, it certainly isn't for cooling ability (normally why cars are tested out this way).

Darth Xed

03-20-2006, 08:15 AM

The Avalanche looked like this one, but with a different grille, current-style steel wheels and antennae all over it - but NO camo.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f380/fffourtwenty/avalanche2007.jpg

Might have been a hacked 2007 Silverado with an Avalanche rear? Who knows. If it was a 2007 Silverado they should have covered the front end! It was Silver Birch, like a darker silver colour.

Interesting.

The different grille and steel wheels makes me think that it could be a 2500 Avalanche tester..... the 2500 Av has gone away for the new model, but perhaps that is only because the HD chassis was not ready for launch yet.

JakeRobb

03-20-2006, 08:21 AM

Why would three cars from Michigan be doing cold weather testing in Nevada in March? :lol:

CLEAN

03-20-2006, 08:42 AM

Well, say what you will about his story, but the details are similar to what I saw out there a few years ago. I saw a DCX convoy, test vehicle had stuff taped all over it, but you could tell it was some sort of minivan looking SUV. Had a big boxy body, but kind of a shriveled up nose....turned out to be the new Durango...but much closer to production than where the Camaro appears to be.

The details sound accurate enough for a protoype sighting, guess we'll just have to wait a few years for Scotts book.

ChrisL

03-20-2006, 09:02 AM

The first mules will be in Austrailia since thats where RWD developement is beign done. My guess is the first chasis will have an existing body put on it. Like the C5 test mule, "Cormaro", where GM used a Camaro body to do initial testing of the C5 chasis.

http://www.corvettecavalry.com/specialvettes/cormaro.jpg

JakeRobb

03-20-2006, 09:20 AM

I didn't mean to suggest it wasn't real... just that they weren't doing cold weather testing. :D

I'll bet it was real.

Z284ever

03-20-2006, 09:48 AM

merlinsteele

03-20-2006, 09:53 AM

Cool story, Dave, thanks for sharing. I hope you DID see what you think you saw. That would be great! :D

91_z28_4me

03-20-2006, 09:59 AM

I wonder if you saw an '08 CTS?
Or next gen BLS or BLC. The next gen of these have a chance of coming to the states.

HOTCIVIC

03-20-2006, 10:11 AM

Are you saying there is a prototype, complete and already on the road..? I have to call BS :bs:

Yeah...right...I'm sure he's making this all up. :rolleyes:

V8 Slayer

03-20-2006, 10:14 AM

Yeah...right...I'm sure he's making this all up. :rolleyes:

I never implied he was making this up jackass, I implied that MAYBE it might of been something else.... and NOT the CAMARO.

HOTCIVIC

03-20-2006, 10:18 AM

I never implied he was making this up jackass, I implied that MAYBE it might of been something else.... and NOT the CAMARO.

You called BS idiot. :rolleyes:

fredl11

03-20-2006, 10:33 AM

Very Interesting!! Hmmmm.

Did exhaust look like the exhaust was in the same position as the Concept?? or was it a centerline?

stars1010

03-20-2006, 12:22 PM

V8 Slayer the Camaro is a lot farther along than you think ;)

Whitten

03-20-2006, 12:24 PM

You know it isn't uncommon for things like this to occur. I can remember back when a friend of mine caught Ford doing some testing a of a very specialized new Mustang. This was about 8 months before even the regular production 2005 GT's had hit the streets and they already had a Mustang with a huge cowl hood, massive rear tires, and a IRS that was in the testing phases. The guy who took the photos found the cars exiting a test facility owned by Harley Davidson and their latest business partner...Ford. He snapped a couple pics of the car. Later on a few of his friends saw the car out and caught it at a light, the car they were in was a well modified 2003 Cobra and their account was that they got their ass handed to them by a car running a very loud squeeling blower.

The car was and is the New GT-500 which is just now being offered for sale in 2006 as an 07 model and these sitings occured in 2004.

Sorry for the long story but it may be unlikely that they are testing it already but not impossible. I would say there is a good chance that you saw a test mule for the car but we will never know until we see some pics surface. Also how many spy photo guys do you see hanging out in the middle of no where Nevada...exactly.

sselie

03-20-2006, 12:48 PM

The first mules will be in Austrailia since thats where RWD developement is beign done.

... and I'm guessing they're out there already! I seem to recall that the first of the new generation Holdens on the VE chassis will go into production this summer.

Best regardSS,

Elie

V8 Slayer

03-20-2006, 12:49 PM

V8 Slayer the Camaro is a lot farther along than you think ;)

if its really hitting the streets in 2009 and it just turned 2006...No... Its progressing as fast as any other car on its way to the market..

Once again, Ill believe it, when I see it. Or at least read that its been given an official "go"

number77

03-20-2006, 01:08 PM

V8 Slayer the Camaro is a lot farther along than you think ;)
Hehehehe. So that means it's fast huh? :D
We have all agreed, that it would be pointless in making this car debut in 2009. GM has worked hard, not just to please us enthusiasts, but to attract new attention, from the average consumer. This means that they are planning on producing it. If they just wanted to keep us car guys (and gals) at bay, they'd just show it at gatherings. Like Bowling Green and the Woodward Dream Cruise. But they went on to make a running, and a moch up car to spread the new image.
Now I'm not saying there wasn't some meaning behind the dream cruise vehicles. Now that we know we are getting a Camaro, it might not be a bad time to take a look back at those vehicles, and see what made them stick out cause it might make it to the CAMARO.

The Chevy Colorado concept 6.2 L 420 hp at 5600 rpm 420 lb-ft at 4600 rpm
The GTO concept
24 valve
Engine Displacement: 6.4L (389 CID)
Bore: 105.03mm (4.135”)
Stroke: 92.00mm (3.622”)
REV Limit: 7000 RPM
Peak Hp: 575 Hp @ 6800 RPM
Peak Tq: 500 Lb-Ft @ 5200 RPM
Compression Ratio: 10.5:1
Cam Shaft: Custom GM Hyd Roller
Valve lift: 15.75mm (.620”)
Cam Duration Int: 232 deg @ .050” Tappet
Cam Duration Exh: 272 deg @ .050” Tappet
90mm Throttle Body
Dual Mass Air Flow sensors, Cold air induction system

Camaro500

03-20-2006, 01:49 PM

They do testing this time of year out there. They were testing the Saturn Aura in Feb when I was there.

guionM

03-20-2006, 03:19 PM

Just to clear some things up.

First, when we are talking about a 2009 Camaro, we are talking about a car that's coming out between January 1st and December 31st 2008. Between 21 and 30 months from now, not calander year 2009.

Second, with that type of time frame, it's probally foolhardy to think there isn't some type of mule or mules running around, or perhaps even early prototypes.

Third, just because Australia is working on items on Camaro & "Belair" doesn't mean it's going to go through testing there 1st. GM ships mules and protoitypes around depending on when and what's being tested. Hot weather testing is done here and down under, depending on the time of the year. Cold weather testing is done in central Canada and Sweden.

I'm not dismissing the guy's sighting. The details seem accurate, and the way he described it is credible. It's just obvious they wouldn't be doing hot weather testing this time of year here (Australia's the favorite this time of year).

IF what he saw was Camaro, and they are already doing real world road testing, and the sheetmetal needed extensive body camoflage, my guess is that would put the production car somewhere around the 24 month range to, IMHO. ;)

falchulk

03-20-2006, 03:30 PM

Rob V

03-20-2006, 04:18 PM

http://planetmustang.com/svtshelbygt500cobra/images/ShelbyCobraGT500Show_11_HR.jpg
There's the hood.

ssheets

03-20-2006, 06:52 PM

I wouldn't call what was unveiled at the show complete, either, but I saw what I saw. I remember the Jeep liberty tester I saw in Yerington, NV looked like a Cherokee that somone took a sawzall to. Yet here they are running around every day now.

I doubt it was "complete" by any means, maybe just existing running gear (like the Zeta-cars) with some modifications. How many testers have you seen? Have they ever looked "complete"?

There's always one...

Dave
I live right where you are talking about ( Ilive in Gardnerville and work in Minden). I remember in 82 or there abouts I saw 3 C4 mules going through town. 6th street and 395 in Minden. That's where my old office was. The C4s looked complete, but all badging was covered up with shipping wrap. I don't remember what exact wheels they had, but they sure weren't chromed ZR1s.

I beleive there is a testing facility somewhere near here.:)

Whitten

03-20-2006, 07:10 PM

ok, I thought the gt500 mule had the big ole scoop, not cowl induction hood!!

It does indeed have a vented hood now, but while in early testing phases it went through a series of hoods one of which was a 2.5" Cowl so that they could clear the Whipple Twin Screw supercharger.

At that stage of the game sheetmetal changes hadn't been finalized, nor had the fact that they weren't going to go with an IRS. They were testing all possibilities even a 3 valve 5.4. The point is that they were testing the drivetrain and and what not way before the car was even announced.

Like guionM said, it is slated for a 2009 model run which means it will be availible in 2008 at some time. With as anticipated as this car is, I would not doubt if GM is trying to hurry up to catch Ford here. I am sure that they are wanting this car out and ready to compete as fast as possible, and that means they are going to be testing the car right now since that process can take 12-24 months.

sselie

03-20-2006, 07:15 PM

I live right where you are talking about ( Ilive in Gardnerville and work in Minden). I remember in 82 or there abouts I saw 3 C4 mules going through town. 6th street and 395 in Minden. That's where my old office was. The C4s looked complete, but all badging was covered up with shipping wrap. I don't remember what exact wheels they had, but they sure weren't chromed ZR1s.

I beleive there is a testing facility somewhere near here.:)
Hey Tim!
Welcome to the board!! Sure is gettin' interesting! I'm hoping for an official announcement in the next 2-3 weeks!

Best regardSS,

Elie

Whitten

03-20-2006, 07:17 PM

http://planetmustang.com/svtshelbygt500cobra/images/ShelbyCobraGT500Show_11_HR.jpg
There's the hood.

That is not the final production hood. Things changed even after the car was announced and the prototype was shown. The current hood looks like this:

http://www.allcarwallpapers.com/wallpapers/previews/ford-selby-gt500-5521.jpg

At any rate we are talking about the Camaro here so...

95nicotineZ

03-20-2006, 11:24 PM

ssheets! Good to see another local. I chased the trio all the way past Carson Valley Middle School, past the AM/PM, all the way up 395 where it goes uphill past NAPA. I had to turn around 'cause I was going a little out of my way since I live in Carson. Wish I had a friggin' camera!

So I'm pretty sure now the last car was a '07/'08 CTS-V tester. The car I saw looks a LOT like the '07 pics I've seen. As far as the Avalanche, I don't know. Maybe it was a 2500. I couldn't see the wheel lugs since I was gawking at the middle car :D

I hope what I saw was a running-gear tester for what will surely pimpslap the new Mustang, especially when Lingenfelter or Callaway gets ahold of it. I guess we'll see. Wish Don Yenko was around...

I appreciate the naysayers as well as the believers. It never fails: every time I see this stuff I never have a friggin' camera. I got a Canon Digital ELPH today that should do the job later on. I also saw a couple of Hyundai testers a few weeks ago, a new sedan and SUV. They had a couple of Sonatas escorting them. They took HWY 88 for some reason.

The cold-weather testing issue is for sure: it's around 0c/32f right now with snow here, and in Michigan it's probably worse. Maybe high-altitude or something? We're at 4200 but I'm not sure what MI is at. Who knows.

The exhaust was at the edges of the rear bumper cover, round with a little flat spot at the top. A little different than the concept but similar. The last car (the CTS-V?) had round tips with no flat spot. All black.

A friend at work suggested maybe a "hot" hardtop Solstice but I doubt it. Who would want a Super/Turbo ECOTEC roadster? :o

Hope to see them again!

-Dave

ssheets

03-21-2006, 12:24 AM

Kills me knowing they went by that close. My house is about a mile off the highway just South of Gardnerville. Like I said, I've seen mules here before so believe it's very possible.

BTW, we're a little higher than that. Minden/Gardnerville is 4750ft and of course everything around us is uphill.

!!!TED!!!

03-21-2006, 04:44 AM

UHP-CAMARO

03-21-2006, 07:15 AM

The cold-weather testing issue is for sure: it's around 0c/32f right now with snow here, and in Michigan it's probably worse. Maybe high-altitude or something? We're at 4200 but I'm not sure what MI is at. Who knows.

-Dave

Could very well be as Donner Pass is at 7,089 feet and not that far away from where you spotted it.

JakeRobb

03-21-2006, 07:45 AM

Hehe, most of Michigan's lower peninsula is around 700ft.

But, Guy said cold weather testing is done in Canada and Sweden, and I tend to believe him.

GM seems to have released pretty much the entire 2007 model year in the first two months of 2006. If they're consistent, that means we might see a 2009 Camaro in less than 24 months.

I still wish there would be a 40th anniversary 2007 Camaro, but it's just not going to happen. :(

ssheets

03-21-2006, 03:02 PM

Ellie, I missed your response so let me say a big hello to yah:thumb: :thumb:

There are many passes in the area that are fairly high, but to get really thin air you need to go to Colorado...Pike's Peak for eaxample is 14,110ft:shock:

Just South of here also is Sonora pass which is the back (East) entry to Yosemite, it's at 9,624ft. A buddy and I rode our mountain bikes down it once.:D :D

falchulk

03-21-2006, 04:15 PM

http://planetmustang.com/svtshelbygt500cobra/images/ShelbyCobraGT500Show_11_HR.jpg
There's the hood.

Thats production, not the test mule. The mule had a scoop that took up 60% of the hood!

theroad64

03-21-2006, 08:22 PM

EllwynX

03-21-2006, 09:58 PM

Are you trying to be funny? Because there is a turbo Ecotec Solstice in the works...2007 and 270 HP.

My father has asked me if he can order that particular car yet... He's planning on getting one.

I, personally, would choose the Saturn Sky over the Solstice.

The Solstice looks like they copied 'Walrus Mans' head from Star Wars for the front end. Not the least bit appealing to me.

graham

03-21-2006, 10:53 PM

I hear it gets hot and muggy early in the year in Mississippi...... hintHINT

Whitten

03-22-2006, 10:40 AM

I hear it gets hot and muggy early in the year in Mississippi...... hintHINT

I agree it does...it is also extremly humid on into August here in Auburn.

Me thinks that GM should do testing here in the southeast.

Purple 92 SS

03-23-2006, 11:30 AM

I hope dave is right that it was.. but only time will tell. hopefully we'll know soon enough.

MissedShift

03-23-2006, 03:58 PM

91_z28_4me

03-23-2006, 04:03 PM

Thats the Caddy BRS, frontdrive, euro-market-only.
In the Current generation Euro-Market. GM said the next one would likely come states side.

guionM

03-23-2006, 05:57 PM

In the Current generation Euro-Market. GM said the next one would likely come states side.

Next one might be RWD, if a certain GM exec comes around.

91_z28_4me

03-24-2006, 07:17 AM

Next one might be RWD, if a certain GM exec comes around.
HMMM... Wasn't the next CTS supposed to be a hair smaller? How small would this new BLS or would it be BTS (hoping for RWD BTC:eek: ) be? Are we talking a RWD true comact car from GM, like 3 series size?

Also wouldn't that pinch the CTS into an uncomfortable position, aka BLS within inches of the CTS within inches of the STS...

Can you clue us in on who the hold out is? We know it ain't Lutz or Welburn or Cherry.

Z284ever

03-24-2006, 09:37 AM

Can you clue us in on who the hold out is? We know it ain't Lutz or Welburn or Cherry.

http://64.65.63.61/forums/showthread.php?t=438427&page=2

Post #16

95nicotineZ

03-24-2006, 02:08 PM

95nicotineZ:
Can you describe in further detail the car you believe was a Camaro mule.
What color was it (behind the camo, if you could see).
Why did you think it was a Camaro? Was it the same proportions/layout as the concept? Could you see at all inside?
:confused:

The body was black under the camo, the size looked just right and the interior had the dual cockpit look to it, like an old Vette. Of course there was test gear all over the dash :D The back end was wide, like the concept and the front had a downslope, like the concept. The proportions looked right for a "musclecar". The exhaust note definitely said V8, sounded like my dad's 1999 C5. The exhaust had a flat top and round bottom. much like the concept. The lights were LED in the rear, as noted by the brakes being applied. Tires were wide and on some black wheels like the Malibu or Monte Carlo has, with no centre caps. BIG discs like the CTS-V.

The Avalanche tester that was in front might have been the 2500 model, but who knows. Didn't notice if they were 8 lug wheels. The grille was different from the 2007 model that I've seen pictures of. Maybe a 2007 Silverado?

Dave

Z284ever

03-24-2006, 02:10 PM

The body was black under the camo, the size looked just right and the interior had the dual cockpit look to it, like an old Vette. Of course there was test gear all over the dash :D The back end was wide, like the concept and the front had a downslope, like the concept. The proportions looked right for a "musclecar". The exhaust note definitely said V8, sounded like my dad's 1999 C5. The exhaust had a flat top and round bottom. much like the concept. The lights were LED in the rear, as noted by the brakes being applied. Tires were wide and on some black wheels like the Malibu or Monte Carlo has, with no centre caps. BIG discs like the CTS-V.

The Avalanche tester that was in front might have been the 2500 model, but who knows. Didn't notice if they were 8 lug wheels. The grille was different from the 2007 model that I've seen pictures of. Maybe a 2007 Silverado?

Dave

Could you tell if it had 2 doors or 4 doors?

Chris 96 WS6

03-24-2006, 02:46 PM

ChevyLSxFan

03-24-2006, 04:08 PM

I couldn't agree with you more Chris. I have had a feeling for a while that with everything Guy has been saying and the hints Scott drops, that it's much, much further along than anyone knows.:)

meissenation

03-24-2006, 08:14 PM

This makes me wonder if all the delay in the "official" announcement isn't because they're trying to shock everbody by saying "not only is the car headed for production but its almost done" and blow everybody away that is expecting MY2009

I'm betting on a 40th anniversary edition still. Take it as a grain of salt, but a guy on my website made a side comment about a month ago that his company is receiving the tooling for a "RWD Chevy coupe" He said that normally they get the tooling 1 year before it's released. I think GM knows all too well how much of a media storm they'd cause by having a 40th anniversary edition camaro, just in time to also make it for the 100th anniversary the next year... that means two special edition camaros that can be limited production and sell like hot cakes.

greg_nate

03-24-2006, 08:40 PM

I'm betting on a 40th anniversary edition still. Take it as a grain of salt, but a guy on my website made a side comment about a month ago that his company is receiving the tooling for a "RWD Chevy coupe" He said that normally they get the tooling 1 year before it's released. I think GM knows all too well how much of a media storm they'd cause by having a 40th anniversary edition camaro, just in time to also make it for the 100th anniversary the next year... that means two special edition camaros that can be limited production and sell like hot cakes.

I am betting on the 40th anniversary too. I have no insider info whatsoever to support my bet. Total hunch. Its just that I can't see GM passing up an opportunity such as a major anniversary for a majorly hyped car.

stars1010

03-24-2006, 08:43 PM

I couldn’t get Scott to spit out a date.......but my guess is still some time around early 2008 (before summer).....or late late 2007(but I think its a stretch)...

3_z28camaro

03-24-2006, 08:45 PM

I am betting on the 40th anniversary too. I have no insider info whatsoever to support my bet. Total hunch. Its just that I can't see GM passing up an opportunity such as a major anniversary for a majorly hyped car.

I really do hope we get the 5th gen as soon as possible and especially as a 40th anniversary would be great! Yet GM has blown this opportunity before, look at the 50th Anniversary Corvette. Some special floormats and emblems.:rolleyes:

ssheets

03-25-2006, 02:59 AM

I couldn’t get Scott to spit out a date.......but my guess is still some time around early 2008 (before summer).....or late late 2007(but I think its a stretch)...
I did hear him say something about the production date being moved up...it was hard to understand him though...he was giggling like a school girl when he said it.:D

!!!TED!!!

03-27-2006, 12:26 AM

Purple 92 SS

03-27-2006, 08:32 AM

I am betting on the 40th anniversary too. I have no insider info whatsoever to support my bet. Total hunch. Its just that I can't see GM passing up an opportunity such as a major anniversary for a majorly hyped car.

thats what im saying too.. but again just a dream. I have no info either.

Although, if scott was giggling we need to just get him drunk maybe?!?!?! :)
-steve

guionM

03-28-2006, 01:16 PM

This makes me wonder if all the delay in the "official" announcement isn't because they're trying to shock everbody by saying "not only is the car headed for production but its almost done" and blow everybody away that is expecting MY2009

Camaro most certainly will be out before the naysayers think. It wasn't too long ago that some in the industry were swearing to us that there was no way it'd be out before 2010 at the earliest. 2010 as in calendar year! :lol:

I had a estimated production date that was conditional on when final approval was expected. But since then (last month), Bob Lutz publically said they weren't going to wait for final approval (exact words were "we're continuing as if it was an approved program"). Also, final approval seems like it's going to happen ahead of schedule. I'm guessing that's why a certain person has been riding a wave of sunshine lately. :)

The only issue I see is Oshawa's tied up with the high volume W cars till at least the end of the 2008 model year, and I don't see GM shortening the production life of 200,000 Lecrosses and Grand Prixs for 2 troubled car divisions to make 100,000 Camaros just for Chevy.

That's why although it seems everyone and their brother are saying Oshawa for the entire Zeta line, including Camaro, I'm sticking with Wilmington as the place for Camaro till I hear otherwise. The timeline that's being thrown around right now, and the likelyhood Camaro will be out ahead of the Zeta sedans and big coupes and that there's a pretty good sized refurbishing budget planned at Wilmington, though I may ultimately be wrong, leads me to still believe that's the place.

By the way, how long till the New York Auto Show? ;) :)

91_z28_4me

03-28-2006, 02:26 PM

Camaro most certainly will be out before the naysayers think. It wasn't too long ago that some in the industry were swearing to us that there was no way it'd be out before 2010 at the earliest. 2010 as in calendar year! :lol:

I had a estimated production date that was conditional on when final approval was expected. But since then (last month), Bob Lutz publically said they weren't going to wait for final approval (exact words were "we're continuing as if it was an approved program"). Also, final approval seems like it's going to happen ahead of schedule. I'm guessing that's why a certain person has been riding a wave of sunshine lately. :)

The only issue I see is Oshawa's tied up with the high volume W cars till at least the end of the 2008 model year, and I don't see GM shortening the production life of 200,000 Lecrosses and Grand Prixs for 2 troubled car divisions to make 100,000 Camaros just for Chevy.

That's why although it seems everyone and their brother are saying Oshawa for the entire Zeta line, including Camaro, I'm sticking with Wilmington as the place for Camaro till I hear otherwise. The timeline that's being thrown around right now, and the likelyhood Camaro will be out ahead of the Zeta sedans and big coupes and that there's a pretty good sized refurbishing budget planned at Wilmington, though I may ultimately be wrong, leads me to still believe that's the place.

By the way, how long till the New York Auto Show? ;) :)
Press preview April 12th, so about 2 weeks. Public dates are April 14th through April 23rd.

Z284ever

03-28-2006, 05:58 PM

The car seen was not a Camaro mule. It was something else.

ADV1

03-28-2006, 06:16 PM

The car seen was not a Camaro mule. It was something else.

As In???????????????? WHAT!!!??? Common, you cant leave a guy hanging like that!:D

V8 Slayer

03-28-2006, 07:01 PM

As In???????????????? WHAT!!!??? Common, you cant leave a guy hanging like that!:D

Tisk Tisk... GNx... ;)

Z284ever

03-28-2006, 07:33 PM

As In???????????????? WHAT!!!??? Common, you cant leave a guy hanging like that!:D

Your guess is as good as mine......

I'm just saying that that car was not a Camaro.

5thgen69camaro

03-28-2006, 09:01 PM

hmm could be GTO , CTS, Bel Air or Velite.

Chrome383Z

03-28-2006, 10:38 PM

By the way, how long till the New York Auto Show? ;) :)

What are we going to see there?

91_z28_4me

03-29-2006, 07:42 AM

Your guess is as good as mine......

I'm just saying that that car was not a Camaro.
That means 2 things: a) there is not a Camaro mule or b) there is a Camaro mule but it wasn't in Nevada.

Interpret how you wish.

5thgen69camaro

03-29-2006, 10:19 AM

What are we going to see there?

I bet its GTO! Stagering the cars would make sense so one car didnt steal the others thunder. Maybe the car he saw was a GTO Mule?

sselie

03-29-2006, 10:20 AM

What are we going to see there?
... it may not be a matter of what we see...:D ;)

Best regardSS,

Elie

91_z28_4me

03-29-2006, 10:25 AM

... it may not be a matter of what we see...:D ;)

Best regardSS,

Elie
[Cues dramatic music]Duh, Duh, Duh, DAAAAH!!![/Cues dramatic music]

guionM

03-29-2006, 05:23 PM

What are we going to see there?

To paraphrase the person who 1st tipped me off, "You'll know it when it happens".

I was tipped off but wasn't told any details beyond I'd remember the conversation when it happens. I had to really dig elswhere to find out more, & I was told to keep it to myself when I did finally find out, so I will for now.

Just let it suffice that by the 2nd week in April, you'll probally know. ;)

......might even have the same news making impact the Camaro concept initially did. ;)

IMPALA64

03-29-2006, 05:45 PM

Sounds like production approval for the Camaro will be announced then.

number77

03-29-2006, 05:52 PM

......might even have the same news making impact the Camaro concept initially did. ;)
The only think that will have the same impact is the announcement of the Camaro power numbers...Hehehehe;)

91_z28_4me

03-29-2006, 07:47 PM

......might even have the same news making impact the Camaro concept initially did. ;)
Hmm... What could we see that people inside GM have said they were shocked when they saw? What would have that much impact?

Zeta, Impala BABY!!!

EllwynX

03-29-2006, 08:27 PM

Sounds like production approval for the Camaro will be announced then.

That's what I was thinking. (And hoping...)

I'd REALLY like to make it to the New York show to see the Camaro since it wasn't in Philly. But it doesn't look like it's gonna happen. :(

IMPALA64

03-29-2006, 09:13 PM

Hmm... What could we see that people inside GM have said they were shocked when they saw? What would have that much impact?

Zeta, Impala BABY!!!

I hope youre right!:eek:

5thgen69camaro

03-29-2006, 10:12 PM

Zeta, Impala BABY!!!

As much as was said about how much more the FWD Impala is selling than the last RWD? I would think keeping the FWD Impala and Bringing RWD Bel Air might be a possible... I did like that last RWD Impala though.

greg_nate

03-30-2006, 02:09 AM

Hmm... What could we see that people inside GM have said they were shocked when they saw? What would have that much impact?

Zeta, Impala BABY!!!

God I love reading this forum...its like Christmas, but every few weeks.

My bet is on the new Malibu. It is supposedly a stunner. I doubt they have the new Impy along far enough to demo.

QATransAm

03-30-2006, 08:41 AM

......might even have the same news making impact the Camaro concept initially did. ;)

Impact continues...which brings us to the climax, an even bigger shockwave...i can see it now.

April 16th, 2006
Production of the highly anticipated 5th generation Camaro set to begin...early next MONTH! :D

My hopes are always sky high...i'll never learn. :cool:

guionM

03-30-2006, 11:07 AM

.....April 16th, 2006
Production of the highly anticipated 5th generation Camaro set to begin...early next MONTH! :D

I think I won't get myself cut from sources by saying Camaro won't see production early next month... or the following.... or the following....

QATransAm

03-30-2006, 12:09 PM

I think I won't get myself cut from sources by saying Camaro won't see production early next month... or the following.... or the following....

Honestly though, is it possible at all, for everything that has to be done to produce the car be kept in secrecy. Tooling and all that good stuff without any kind of official its a go..?

I mean obviously you know a lot more than me, i just can't see them not only missing the 40th...but also showing the car, getting everyone excited, having the car back on the chevy site. And for what, to wait 2-3 years when the excitement is gone again.

They wait 4 years knowing most of us will be here waiting...
wait 2 more, yea we'll probably still be, just don't know about the other 80% that need to buy to make it successful.

TQdrivenws6

03-30-2006, 01:38 PM

I think I won't get myself cut from sources by saying Camaro won't see production early next month... or the following.... or the following....

So announce mid April, so that makes early May, June, and July not happening...so August 06 it is!:eek::lol:

DrewSG

03-30-2006, 03:07 PM

hmm could be GTO , CTS, Bel Air or Velite.

If it wasn't a Camaro, I don't see why it would be any other Zeta.

5thgen69camaro

03-30-2006, 03:39 PM

If it wasn't a Camaro, I don't see why it would be any other Zeta.

why

posaune

04-01-2006, 02:41 PM

my guess after reading the hints is Chevy will debut the Production Camaro...i closer to production form.

guionM

04-01-2006, 04:01 PM

Honestly though, is it possible at all, for everything that has to be done to produce the car be kept in secrecy. Tooling and all that good stuff without any kind of official its a go..?

I mean obviously you know a lot more than me, i just can't see them not only missing the 40th...but also showing the car, getting everyone excited, having the car back on the chevy site. And for what, to wait 2-3 years when the excitement is gone again.

To the outsider, things work painfully slow in the auto industry & they don't like to show actual designs till as close to intro as possible.

When a car reaches final approval, they commit (irreversibly) to make and award contracts with OEM suppliers, remodel factories, hire workers (if needed), order tooling, move to final development and certification, and a whole host of other things all at once. Final approval is the point of no return.

A factory can be retooled in 6-8 months, but car development and certification can take 18 to 24 from approval to the 1st sellable car off the production line. Even before that happens, theres quite a lot of time spent training workers, managers, supervisors, and quality guys on the assembly line. Then there's pre-production models that are made and gone over and trouble shooting both to fix problems with the cars and problems with the assembly process.

Chrysler managed to keep Charger under wraps till about a year before production, and kept it's design secret almost right up till the sheetmetal stampings showed up at the plant. Charger was put into an existing assembly line, and by most accounts, final design was done pretty quickly and it's difference from the 300 was minimal enough that Chrysler was able to keep it secret. Cost to make the Charger was relatively a drop in the bucket over the 300. On the other hand, the Challenger (and Camaro) is much more involved.

Finally, all companies must account for spending to their stockholders and investors. That's why they make investments in factories or new vehicles or powerplants part of news releases. It's fairly easy to track factory spending and revamping, and the estimated time it's going to take to complete.

IMHO, it's impossible that there will be a Camaro in showrooms by next spring. It's extremely unlikely you'll see it in showrooms by fall next year. Beyond that it depends on how much money GM ultimately decides to spend on it, how quickly they ultimately want to get it done, where they are going to make it, how quickly OEM people can get their parts done, certified, and production up, what last minute glitches come up, and also of course, the health of General Motors (bankruptcy allows them to terminate or suspend approved models and their related contracts).

Then again, with Bob Lutz now making his own rules on Camaro and the entire zeta line (he seems to have 'finally' been given "Card Blanche" on getting these things to market as fast as humanly possible, all but ignoring traditional channels and limited only by budget), all bets are off.

91_z28_4me

04-02-2006, 11:01 PM

Then again, with Bob Lutz now making his own rules on Camaro and the entire zeta line (he seems to have 'finally' been given "Card Blanche" on getting these things to market as fast as humanly possible, all but ignoring traditional channels and limited only by budget), all bets are off.
After watching 60 Minutes peice on GM today and hearing Wagner say something along the lines of "after all this good press we would have to be brain dead not to make this car." and after reading this I think that approval has finally happened.

formula79

04-03-2006, 01:00 AM

Your guess is as good as mine......

I'm just saying that that car was not a Camaro.

Wonder if it is the Caddy Coupe from 20/20?

Z284ever

04-03-2006, 01:03 AM

Wonder if it is the Caddy Coupe from 20/20?

60 Minutes?

Really, I have no idea. But I have to admit that crossed my mind when this thread started.

guionM

04-03-2006, 05:50 AM

Wanna get an idea how long that RWD Cadillac coupe has been bouncing around inside GM?

How about this quote from a Businessweek article from February 2003 relating to an episode that happened in 2002:

...During one trip through the design studio last year, he spotted a sexy two-door version of the Cadillac CTS sports sedan. "I hope you guys figure out a way to build that," Wagoner said, but offered no solutions, recalls one senior designer...

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_06/b3819001.htm

Makes it 4 years and counting so far. Total of 6-8 years by the time it hits the streets.

BTW: the rest of the article is very good, and should be required reading here. :)

smackkk

04-03-2006, 09:35 AM

You guys think anything special is planned for the Dallas auto show? The sneak peek is tomorrow night and its been mentioned in the Texas forums that Scott has mentioned a few surprises to make it a night not to forget.

There will also be a few "special surprises" JUST FOR THE ATTENDEES OF THIS EVENT and no one else!! Scott won't let me tell you!!!

and

This will truly be a NIGHT TO REMEMBER.......there will be MANY SURPRISES.......you will NOT want to miss this event!!! SEE YOU THERE!!!!!!!!

I know the Dallas auto show isnt anything special to most folks but it is the Fbody capital of the world.:)

MENEGRANDE

04-04-2006, 12:32 AM

the camaro is dead... gm is bankrupt...they screw it so badly...

Chris 96 WS6

04-04-2006, 09:21 AM

the camaro is dead... gm is bankrupt...they screw it so badly...

Way to add substantively to the thread. :rolleyes:

greg_nate

04-04-2006, 11:28 AM

the camaro is dead... gm is bankrupt...they screw it so badly...

Bad mood? Morning dump didn't go so well?

Abidar

04-04-2006, 12:33 PM

Bad mood? Morning dump didn't go so well?

:Owned:

MegaDave

04-04-2006, 07:58 PM

I believe you saw them! And I would not be surprised if it was a Camaro!
I live in Vegas and they are always driving through town with test cars...In the last year I have seen the Shelby GT500, I have seen a GT350, that was about 4 or 5 months ago, And a few days ago I saw A BOSS driving around on the strip...It had a cool paint job and a little spoiler but it had coolest turn signals...LOL Hopefully I will see the Camaro testing soon.

Dave

I have been reading this forum for a few weeks...This forum ROCKS :D
Keep up the great work everyone!

91Z28350

04-04-2006, 10:36 PM

MegaDave

04-05-2006, 11:22 AM

Welcome aboard MegaDave! WE like pictures just fine here, so by all means, grab a disposable camera and snap away!

BTW, is that Dave Ellefson or Dave Mustaine (and if the referrence means nothing to you, no worries)

Yes I need to carry my camera I agree! I see alot more then cool cars in my job..LOL :cool:

And yes my name is because I have always been a huge Megadeth fan, My buddies called me MegaDave...It's cool that you caught that! Have a great one and I WILL start bringing my camera to work!

Dave

greg_nate

04-11-2006, 06:40 PM

To paraphrase the person who 1st tipped me off, "You'll know it when it happens".

I was tipped off but wasn't told any details beyond I'd remember the conversation when it happens. I had to really dig elswhere to find out more, & I was told to keep it to myself when I did finally find out, so I will for now.

Just let it suffice that by the 2nd week in April, you'll probally know. ;)

......might even have the same news making impact the Camaro concept initially did. ;)

were you referring to the Saturn Preview concept?

91_z28_4me

04-12-2006, 01:29 PM

were you referring to the Saturn Preview concept?
Definately NOT. Lots of people knew that was coming and it wasn't a suprise to most here.

yell-01vette

04-12-2006, 02:12 PM

Monaro/GTO Concept finally unveiled? Or will it be the Chevelle/Bel-Air Sedan? :confused:

I just love rampant speculation! :D

SMUJeremy

04-12-2006, 04:05 PM

Well, today and tomorrow are Press Days at the NYIAS, so any idea on when this announcment/unveiling will take place?

NewbieWar

04-12-2006, 04:20 PM