Ifyou aren't a fan of Consumer Reports......

Consumer Affairs article which includes Lori Queen's (GM's Small car executive) comments:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/03/cr_detroit.html

and Canada's Auto123 news little discovery:
http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/news,view.spy?artid=58024&pg=1

Consumer Reports is a great magazine . . . for judging toasters and vacuums. On virtually any big ticket item, they miss the mark, and especially with cars.

Lori Queen sounds like a 10 year old crying to her mom, "Why don't people like me". No one cares.

Real people care what CR has to say.

You either back up your claims with hard evidence and bring it forward for the public to review or you shut up and produce product real people want.

If GM has the smoking gun like they did with Dateline and the Side Saddle fuel tank, schedule an interview with the press and make your case.

Comments like this only makes GM and their management look pathetic and out of touch, if valid or not.

Lori Queen sounds like a 10 year old crying to her mom, "Why don't people like me". No one cares.

Real people care what CR has to say.

Well I disagree. The most misinformed are the 'real people who care'. Only the most ignorant segments of the buying public still trust and believe CR. It's becoming more and more obvious to car buyers that CR is chronically biased towards import makes.

I happen to agree with Lori Queen. Next to CBS and CNN, I cannot think of a more opportunistic and professionally dishonest media group than CR. What a bunch of pirates.

Lori Queen sounds like a 10 year old crying to her mom, "Why don't people like me". No one cares.

Real people care what CR has to say.

You either back up your claims with hard evidence and bring it forward for the public to review or you shut up and produce product real people want.

If GM has the smoking gun like they did with Dateline and the Side Saddle fuel tank, schedule an interview with the press and make your case.

Comments like this only makes GM and their management look pathetic and out of touch, if valid or not.
You copied this from your post on C&G ver batum didn't you?

Those articles make no more of a substantiated case against consumer reports than consumer reports makes for its vehicles.

How can the authors of those articles feel they have a publish-worthy 'case' against CR's lack of objectiveness when they in turn are lacking the same objectiveness other than to attempt to extract/assume the means by only looking at the results?

IE: assuming somebody cheated on a test because they got a better grade than you think they were capable of.

Well I disagree. The most misinformed are the 'real people who care'. Only the most ignorant segments of the buying public still trust and believe CR. It's becoming more and more obvious to car buyers that CR is chronically biased towards import makes.

I happen to agree with Lori Queen. Next to CBS and CNN, I cannot think of a more opportunistic and professionally dishonest media group than CR. What a bunch of pirates.


Yup and GM and Fords market share continues to drop, month after month after month. Crying about CR and how unfair they are, is not going to change that or people perceptions about them.

Yup and GM and Fords market share continues to drop, month after month after month. Crying about CR and how unfair they are, is not going to change that or people perceptions about them.
There are a multitude of reasons for GM's share loss... bloated UAW benefits, corporate mistakes like the Fiat fiasco, unfair trade policies in other countries like Japan... but CR has contributed to the problem by 'poisoning the well' of brand equity for GM and Ford. Statisticians could make mincemeat of CR's methods and claims. CR is the laughingstock of modern 'journalism'.

Here's some light reading for your homework:

http://www.allpar.com/cr.html

Lori Queen sounds like a 10 year old crying to her mom, "Why don't people like me". No one cares.

Real people care what CR has to say.

You either back up your claims with hard evidence and bring it forward for the public to review or you shut up and produce product real people want.

If GM has the smoking gun like they did with Dateline and the Side Saddle fuel tank, schedule an interview with the press and make your case.

Comments like this only makes GM and their management look pathetic and out of touch, if valid or not.
Why? If there are issues with C&D's journalistic integrity, then she has every right to say so. It would be one thing if she were the only one saying these things. There have been many who've argued that C&D's survey system is grossly unscientific and that their staff is biased towards Japanese makes.

Allpar.com (http://www.allpar.com/cr.html)

I don't know if this has been posted on here or not. I can't remember where I first saw it.

but CR has contributed to the problem by 'poisoning the well' of brand equity for GM and Ford. Statisticians could make mincemeat of CR's methods and claims. CR is the laughingstock of modern 'journalism'.

Here's some light reading for your homework:

http://www.allpar.com/cr.html

GM has created their own problems and their history with CU still haunts them. I know CU better than you think.

The facts are in the publics eye, CR has real credibility. In the market that is what counts and what sells product.

GM put your stats guys on the case.

Why? If there are issues with C&D's journalistic integrity, then she has every right to say so. It would be one thing if she were the only one saying these things. There have been many who've argued that C&D's survey system is grossly unscientific and that their staff is biased towards Japanese makes.
C&D is Car and Driver and has nothing to do with the idiots at Consumer Reports.

The fact that they cater to "real people," as in the ignorant masses, is right in their name... CONSUMER Reports. "Real people" like to make "good" decisions but don't like to do their homework. "Real people" turn to ass rags like CR to "think" for them and make their "good" decisions that will appease their peers. It's long become socially unacceptable to actually LIKE a domestic brand let alone want it to do well. And your friendly folks at CR are just happy to cater to that and to reinforce that image _regardless_ of what's really going on.

It's long become socially unacceptable to actually LIKE a domestic brand let alone want it to do well.
Not really agreeing with this. It is true in certain social circles, such as liberal movie stars who buy a Prius to make a socio-political statement, and with high-dollar defense attorneys who buy a Lexus to show their defiance to America and all things American. But let's not forget all the working folks who buy work trucks from the Big Three... the soccer moms/dads driving (and being delighted with) the new 07 Tahoe... and muscle car fans like me who are proud to take an 05 GTO to a local cruise such as the Woodward Dream Cruise in Detroit. Fact is, there's a backlash underway, a rebellion against appliance-sedans from Japan. Hummer H2, C6 Z06, Tahoe, GTO, CTS-V are all evidence of this. I haven't even touched on the evidence from other makers.... such as the new Mustang, F150, 300C SRT8 and the Hemi Charger.

It's long become socially unacceptable to actually LIKE a domestic brand let alone want it to do well.

Right now there is a poll on detnews.com in which 45% of those who have responded rated the new 2007 Yukon "unacceptable". Do you think any of these people have come within 50 feet of the new GMT-900s? Let alone driven one?

It's called pre-conditioning, and I fear that it's never going to change with attitudes like this.

It's called pre-conditioning, and I fear that it's never going to change with attitudes like this.
I think it's just a matter of time. Word-of-mouth, or 'buzz marketing', is very powerful over time. GM and the other domestics just need to keep churning out distinctively American hit products at good prices and the tide will turn. The days of import brands consistently encroaching on market share are numbered IMHO.

I think it's just a matter of time. Word-of-mouth, or 'buzz marketing', is very powerful over time. GM and the other domestics just need to keep churning out distinctively American hit products at good prices and the tide will turn. The days of import brands consistently encroaching on market share are numbered IMHO.
Chrysler and Caddy are well on their way. Hummer is there. Chevy will likely be next followed by Buick and hopefully Pontiac. Saturn will be distinctly European thanks to Opel, and SAAB just needs to find its niche. Sounds like GM is on its way. My question is will Ford be able to do the same?

There are a multitude of reasons for GM's share loss... bloated UAW benefits,I'm not sure how that affects selling vehicles and market share loss...but things like stagnant body styles going on for a decade without a real make over, OR, just addressing problems like; paint falling off their cars in huge chunks, trans failures for weak brads on "park rods", substandard materials in good designs...etc...would do wonders for "public perception".
Not that I agree with anything that worthless rag, CR, has to say. They sold out in the mid-'80's. If any vehicle doesn't fit their "Euro-Japanese" genre, it's pure trash...:rolleyes:
They need to stop using their genre as a measuring stick, and evaluate vehicles on their own weight, in their own designed direction. American vehicle are designed in a different direction; more style, American Style.

I think it's just a matter of time. Word-of-mouth, or 'buzz marketing', is very powerful over time. GM and the other domestics just need to keep churning out distinctively American hit products at good prices and the tide will turn. The days of import brands consistently encroaching on market share are numbered IMHO.

I can see how living in MI might give you such a lighthearted, unrealistic view of the current marketplace. When I went to NAIAS, we got to the hotel around 11:30 PM. There were 18 cars in the parking lot outside my hotel room window. 15 were domestic. Come to New England, and do the same thing...you'd have about 4-5 domestics AT BEST. MI is a complete anomaly when it comes to cars, as you'd expect it to be.

People read CR. People value CR. People spend a lot of $$$ on cars. People don't want to make a bad choice. Therefore, they reach for CR. You can't blame the customer. You can blame the magazine. I think CR is pure sh!t. But you know what? All GM's whining will change nothing. I don't know what will happen, but my prediction is that unless we get some PHENOMENAL cars from the big 2.5 in the next 5 years (I'm talking nothing but 300-type fanfare...not 500-type "wow...it looks like a '98 Passat" type fanfare), its going to get ugly.

Hyundai is taking grasp. Toyota keeps on rolling, and has nearly DCX market share in the U.S. I would NOT count out the Chinese yet...the Koreans proved Americans love bargains, and proved that you can move up with time. We need product, and we needed it yesterday. If we had it, CR might not have such a grasp on people.

I can see how living in MI might give you such a lighthearted, unrealistic view of the current marketplace. When I went to NAIAS, we got to the hotel around 11:30 PM. There were 18 cars in the parking lot outside my hotel room window. 15 were domestic. Come to New England, and do the same thing...you'd have about 4-5 domestics AT BEST. MI is a complete anomaly when it comes to cars, as you'd expect it to be.
I've lived all over, partly thanks to six years in the USAF. Grew up near Cleveland, lived in Columbus OH while in college, then Dayton and Omaha in the USAF, then Denver five years and moved to Detroit where I am now. I've been driving GM cars/trucks and nothing else since 1976... so I suppose some could claim I'm biased. But I've already acknowledged the substantial success so far of the import brands. Fact is though, America's love affair with the automobile will not fade anytime soon, and distinctly American designs are perfect input to that passion. Sure, I realize how many more folks drive domestics in Detroit. But the domestics are still selling a huge amount of iron and making customers happy with world-class quality to boot. The myth of foreign car quality superiority is dead, despite CR's desperate attempts to keep it alive on life support.
People read CR. People value CR. People spend a lot of $$$ on cars. People don't want to make a bad choice. Therefore, they reach for CR. You can't blame the customer. You can blame the magazine. I think CR is pure sh!t. But you know what? All GM's whining will change nothing. I don't know what will happen, but my prediction is that unless we get some PHENOMENAL cars from the big 2.5 in the next 5 years (I'm talking nothing but 300-type fanfare...not 500-type "wow...it looks like a '98 Passat" type fanfare), its going to get ugly.
It's already ugly. But GM's taking action to cut their costs so they can compete. Hopefully also, our government will do some things to level the playing field with the import makes... to prevent things getting so bad in the US that no one can afford new cars anymore. I'm all in favor of them selling here... and yes they do have some assembly here now... but we should levy the same taxes/fees/rules on imports from Japanese companies that they do on US cars being sold in Tokyo.
Hyundai is taking grasp. Toyota keeps on rolling, and has nearly DCX market share in the U.S. I would NOT count out the Chinese yet...the Koreans proved Americans love bargains, and proved that you can move up with time. We need product, and we needed it yesterday. If we had it, CR might not have such a grasp on people.
Maybe you haven't looked lately... but GM has a pretty good global strategy going (except of course in protectionist Japan). GM's got growing market share in China, and GM's Korean sub, Daewoo, is getting back online and hiring workers back.

GM is on the right path, back to American styled vehicles, but one thing they need to remember is; public opinion is largely affected by seeing how their vehicles hold up after 10 years on the road compared to the competition.
Anyone can make a New vehicle look and run good, but how good will they hold up?, is something value concious people do look at.

Maybe you haven't looked lately... but GM has a pretty good global strategy going (except of course in protectionist Japan). GM's got growing market share in China, and GM's Korean sub, Daewoo, is getting back online and hiring workers back.

With all due respect, I really don't care much about other markets. If GM can't even get its home market straight, what the hell does that say about them? I can appreciate success elsewhere, but if they can't get NA right, we're screwed...

With all due respect, I really don't care much about other markets. If GM can't even get its home market straight, what the hell does that say about them? I can appreciate success elsewhere, but if they can't get NA right, we're screwed...
It matters how GM is doing overseas, because it affects how much capital they will have for making new hits for the USA. Their recent success in China for example, helps fund developments like the new Camaro, the 07 Tahoe whose sales are up 47% over last year, the new C6, the HHR, the STS-v and so on.

C&D is Car and Driver and has nothing to do with the idiots at Consumer Reports.
You mean there's no idiots at C&D?:)

has anyone emailed CR in anger to the article..?

If everyone that responded to each CR thread here and passed the message along to other boards like this..see where im getting at?
you got thousnads of letters of hate, hey it might get thier collective heads out of that giant butt of thiers.

Consumer Reports are geared for the naive. The rest of us use our brains.

If I listened to magazine reviews, consumer reports etc... I'd never buy a GM vehicle! Thank God we have forums like camaroZ28.com. It's members are able to have commonsense discussion without wasting time responding to CRs.

Btw, I congratulate Lori Queen for having the balls to speak her mind! Pity some of her male colleagues lack balls. j/k