Here's the skinny on cars in Asia...

OK - I was going to wait until I got back home to do this thread, but... well... I'm bored, so I am going to do it today.

My plan here is to make several observations, allow you to ask questions /make comments, then I hope to conclude and "wrap-up" everything when I get home in a few weeks.

1) I was utterly amazed at the vehicles in Taiwan. I guess 40% Toyota, 25% Nissan, and the rest an average equal of Ford, VW, Volvo, Renault, and Mitsubishi. I saw not ONE SINGLE GM OWNED NAMEPLATE on that island in 4 days of travel between Taipei (in the north) and Khaosiung (in the south).

1a) I can honestly testify now that Toyotas DO fall apart like any other car if not treated well. I had several cab rides in Toyota Camrys, and I don't think any of them had rear shocks left... rattles ABOUND... knobs broken off, A/C vents broken, etc on cars 2-4 years old. So now I know they "break" too.:D

1b) I saw a few BMWs on the island, more Mercedes' than BMWs, but both together didn't make 2-3% of the cars I saw - VERY rare cars to be on an island with the highest per-capita income of anyone in Asia except Japan. Hmmm...

2) I saw a new Ford Escape in Chiayi last Thursday that is MUCH better looking than the Escape we have in the US and Europe. The grill was more like a Lincoln than a Ford, with vertical chrome lines, and a wide, bold topbar with the Ford emblem recessed in the center. BEAUTIFUL leather interior (seats and dash resembled those in a 2005 Lincoln LS), woodgrain, and acoutrements. Alloy rims with smooth thin spokes like I have not seen on any Ford (much less an SUV).
This thing would sell like crazy at home. It's like the EuroFocus thing. Again (my comment to Ford... WTF ARE YOU DOING?!?!) why do I see better-looking designs on Ford's cars in Europe and Asia than I do in the #1 car/truck market in the world... the USA?!?!
(I took a few digitals of the black Escape, but can't get them uploaded from here - I'll get them up ASAP arriving home.)

3)GM is HUGE in Shanghai. I was picked up at Pudong airport by a Chinese dude driving a Buick minivan (couldn't find a name on it anywhere, but found 7 Buick tri-shield logos!) It was like The Olds Sihouette, but "Buick", and brand new (2 months old, company car). There were NUMEROUS Buicks here on the highway. I saw a few Hummers (H2 and H3). Funny to ride in 2 new Buicks right off the airplane in Shanghai!:cool:
Also cool is that GM has just opened the Chevrolet brand here on mainland China. I saw 2 dealerships (1 in Shanghai, and 1 in Kunshan). The Cobalt is here, and it looks like the Impala is here, but I can't read their "new" names. I hope to walk to a Chevy dealer in Kunshan to investigate models and differences with US counterparts this coming week. WILL get digitals.

4)To my surprise, I have seen VERY few Hondas here in China. Toyota has a plant less than 1 mile from our new plant (hint-hint :rolleyes: ), and there are several Toyotas here - I'd guess about 20% of cars I see are T's. It's known that China and Japan are not the best of neighbors, but it seems that Toyota has cracked into China first and heaviest of all Japanese carmakers. I have no idea why that is. American and European cars abound here - VWs, Renaults, Peugots, Ford, GM, Chryslers... but not nearly so many Japanese cars.
Kinda pisses me off to be honest - the streets here have more "American" cars on them than American streets do now.:mad:------>:cry:

5) As just stated, Ford does have a good presence here in China. Most are Ford of Europe designs... like Mondeo and Focus. Surprisingly, I see more new Volvos than new Fords. Volvo is considered a very high-end car here, and affluential people here even prefer it over Mercedes and BMW.

5a) One of the first billboards I saw coming out of the Shanghai airport was for Cadillac. The STS, CTS, and Escalade were all shown with the GM and Caddy logos. Caddy is positioned VERY nicely here to be the luxury car leader - above BMW and Mercedes. Volvo will be it's #1 competition.
HOW'S THAT FOR WEIRD!!!:eek:

5)I have seen the infamous Geely now, and I am in the city where they are made. There is a dealership right next to the Chevy dealership in Kunshan. IT IS ON MY LIST TO HIT. I want to get a peek at their quality here on the PRC mainland.

6)There are other cars made and sold only in China domestically. Jai-Bei is one of them. It is very popular here, and they make compact cars and utility trucks. I am wondering how long it will be before they start to offer these other makes in the USA like the Geely? I am suspecting that they are all sitting back watching Geely to see how they do first.

7) FUEL. It's everywhere here, and it's cheap. Screw what the news broadcasts are saying... they have gas here. Gas is still so plentiful and cheap that diesel is hardly found in any cars at all. Trucks, yes... cars, no. ALL cars are gas over here. It's like a 180* turn from Europe.
(As a side note, this probably hints at why Honda and Toyota are not pushing their vehicles towards diesel the way European companies have done.)

8) Performance cars mean absolutely dookie in Asia. To talk performance cars with anyone here is like talking Barbie dolls to NFL players... they will give you a good 20 seconds to mouth off before they COMPLETELY ignore you, or just walk away. Hence, WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND that performance cars are something unique to societies that are developed and wealthy... USA, Europe, Australia, etc.
Don't get me wrong, there are some quick *** cars ( Evo and Skyline come to mind), but by and large there is just no interest in fast cars by the Asian population at-large.

Well, that's a good bit for now.
Please mull these over, and feel free to post any questions/comments about "cars and Asia". I'll do what I can to get you a fair and honest answer while I am here.

Of course, posting is a huge PITA right now, and we are working 6-10's a week to get this plant going... so don't be disheartened if I don't reply quickly.
I promise I will answer every question, just don't know when... :(

1b) I saw a few BMWs on the island, more Mercedes' than BMWs, but both together didn't make 2-3% of the cars I saw - VERY rare cars to be on an island with the highest per-capita income of anyone in Asia except Japan. Hmmm...


I'll just comment that you don't realize how high our standard of living is until you go to other "wealthy" nations. I've been to Japan, and we have a much higher standard of living here.

In China, I can imagine why no one cares about performance cars. When most people are just getting cars for the first time, I imagine they are pretty happy just to have a car, period. A performance car probably sounds like an absurd idea.

ProudPony

I enjoyed that read. Thanks for putting such perspective on Chinese taste when it comes to cars.

The Geely is a scarey proposition. I wonder what this manufacturer will eventually do to our domestic car industries in Western nations? Not forgetting that GM Chinese cars will probably still be waaay more expensive than domestic Chinese makers' cars... :confused:

Woah, lucky!! Do you think the higher presence of American/European cars over their Japanese competitors could be something to do with bad blood in the past? I mean, the Japanese executed a lot of Chinese. The Japanese bombed pearl harbour. But Canada just put them all in camps and got lucky. ;)

I'm glad to see Cadillac with some real prestige; I want my next car to be a Caddy if things go right. In Vancouver, BMWs and Mercedes are rampid and usually 3-series or C-class cars. Even the high-end ones, they're always dirty and seem neglected. But when I see a Cadillac, it's usually clean and flashy looking, but more rare and looks a lot classier. Even the Lexuses here are dirty and so plentiful that they're booooring.

I'll just comment that you don't realize how high our standard of living is until you go to other "wealthy" nations. I've been to Japan, and we have a much higher standard of living here.

In China, I can imagine why no one cares about performance cars. When most people are just getting cars for the first time, I imagine they are pretty happy just to have a car, period. A performance car probably sounds like an absurd idea.

What's the Standard of living like in Japan? I imagine it to be pretty high.

Very good read.

What's the Standard of living like in Japan? I imagine it to be pretty high.

There's a lot of money in Tokyo, but when you get out of the major cities and into the smaller cities there is a big change. We're not talking third world or anything, but we're also not talking the "everybody has a house with a yard, garage, and two cars" kind of thing, either. Still, it's not that the standard of living isn't high. It is. It's just that the Standard of living in the US is so much higher.

I'll just comment that you don't realize how high our standard of living is until you go to other "wealthy" nations. I've been to Japan, and we have a much higher standard of living here.

In China, I can imagine why no one cares about performance cars. When most people are just getting cars for the first time, I imagine they are pretty happy just to have a car, period. A performance car probably sounds like an absurd idea.


Exactly. When I was in Japan, specifically Tokyo, performance cars and top end models are abundant. Japan, is more "Western" than the other Asian nations.

well i can comment on japan as im in my 6th month here and still have 3 left.

Im going to say that at least 85% of the cars are all domestic (meaning Japanese). Each Japanese manufacturer makes so many models its UNBELIEVABLE. It honestly seems like they each have 5 cars for every segment (especially toyota). I really dont know how they make the business cases for so much overlap. Toyota seems to be the most common car here. Honda probably comes next followed by Nissan. Mitsubishis are a pretty rare breed as are suzukis. I havent seen any art and science model cadillacs although i know they do sell them here (looked at a dealership where they do) and i do see the occasional seville. They sell corvettes but youll see more ferraris than corvettes. I see some tahoes, suburbans, astros, and express vans but im guessing those are mainly imported by individuals. Ford is also very rare. The most common import here are from the europeans and mainly from germany (they import citroen and pugeot but i almost never see them). I hear the Yakuza mainly drive benzs, but obviously so do other people.I would say Mercedes is the biggest selling import followed by BMW then VW & audi.

as far as the standard of living ill comment on that later as i have to go to class now.

I don't have long before meeting the guys for dinner, but I wanted to get a post in real quick...

I got some images of our Buick Minivans... and got a name too.
It is called the GL8. (and no, it doesn't have a V8 either !:D )
It seats 8 in a pinch - I guess that's the "8" part?!?!:shrug:

I was in Tokyo Narita last Tuesday. The cars I saw were pretty much 2-4 year old Toyotas and Nissans - much like 0toinsanein5.4sec said. They look just like models in the states for the most part, but have different names.

The standard of living in Japan, Taiwan, China, and most other nations in Asia is just nothing near what we have in the USA. EVEN IN EUROPE, it's not like in the USA. In Europe, you might have your own house with a detached garage for one car, but you seldom find anyone with more than a 100m x 100m lot, almost NEVER with an acre or more of land, and anything over one car is considered luxury. Here in Asia, the homes are very small and one car is about all any family can afford if at all. There are 10-bazillion scooters (mopeds), and 20-bazillion bicycles. On the funny side... if they ever start modifying cars the way they do these bicycles over here, we will have a new TV show on Spike TV...:D

OK - gotta go eat dinner. Will check in later if possible.
Thanks to those who read the leading post and commented!:bow:

Very interesting, thanks for the post.

I was just down in Central America and it is crazy how different it is from America. 33% of the vehicles are crew cab compact trucks. Ranger has a crew cab and the Toyota sold is smaller than a Tacoma. They have the GMT355 Isuzu too. Geo/chevy metros and other Asian/euro small Chevys seemed popular as well as small Nissan and Toyota cars

Ok i have some time to comment on the standard of life here. First of all let me begin by saying that Tokyo is the least Japanese of all the cities. REplace japanese with english and get a bigger mixture or races and it would feel just like New York.

With that said I wouldnt say the standard of living is below America. Yes, people do typically live in much smaller houses than in America but thats largely due to the fact that land costs a lot more (especially before the bubble collapsed). Society here is much more superficial than America (really it can be pretty extreme). Often people only by name brands (ie louis vitton) that they probably shouldnt buy because they dont have that much money to blow. Why? Just so they can look rich. the argument can almost be made that because Japanese often do things like this their standard of living is higher than most americans because they buy more "quality" material items. Life here is very comfortable.

Ive actually been thinking about this the past week - and that is nonamericans say we have it good in America. Ya, we do. Japan has it better (in the following manner). That is they really dont have much to worry about when it comes to being attacked by someone else. This country is thousands of times safer than America. The last time something bad happened to this country was in 95 in Tokyo subway where a cult here released sarin gas killing like 13 people and obviously enjuring more. but still the number is not that high. They got it easy here.

Also before, i used to be opposed to gun control - hell i used to say if everyone has a gun theird be no violence bc if one person pulls a gun than 10 ppl point their gun back at them. Well after living here where guns are banned ill admit thats the wrong way of thinking. This country is unbelievably safe. Ive walked down alleys at 12 am here and not had to worry about getting mugged by a guy with a gun where i cant do that in a nice suburb in America.

If you look at it in terms of saftey alone, Japan's standard of living puts us to shame. if you dont include saftey id say were pretty similar. somethings are better here than in America and vice versa.

also forgot to mention one thing about cars here. Before i came here last semester i was expecting to see a lot of 'performance' cars (read rice rockets) and I rarely see them. The performance car market here is incredibly over exaggerated. Id say less than 1% of the auto market here is for performance cars.

I don't have long before meeting the guys for dinner, but I wanted to get a post in real quick...

I got some images of our Buick Minivans... and got a name too.
It is called the GL8. (and no, it doesn't have a V8 either !:D )
It seats 8 in a pinch - I guess that's the "8" part?!?!:shrug:

:

I guess having the "8" in there is going to help sell cars there, especially when you're talking about "8" seater, and GL"8".

Remember the Alfa Romeo 164??? When it got to HongKong, it got a rename to 168...

http://www.digest.net/alfa/FAQ/164/alfa168.htm

I got some images of our Buick Minivans... and got a name too.
It is called the GL8. (and no, it doesn't have a V8 either !:D )
It seats 8 in a pinch - I guess that's the "8" part?!?!:shrug:
It is because it is GRRREAT!

Said it like the Chinese resturaunt workers from "A Christomas Story".

Ok i have some time to comment on the standard of life here. First of all let me begin by saying that Tokyo is the least Japanese of all the cities. REplace japanese with english and get a bigger mixture or races and it would feel just like New York.

With that said I wouldnt say the standard of living is below America. Yes, people do typically live in much smaller houses than in America but thats largely due to the fact that land costs a lot more (especially before the bubble collapsed). Society here is much more superficial than America (really it can be pretty extreme). Often people only by name brands (ie louis vitton) that they probably shouldnt buy because they dont have that much money to blow. Why? Just so they can look rich. the argument can almost be made that because Japanese often do things like this their standard of living is higher than most americans because they buy more "quality" material items. Life here is very comfortable.

Ive actually been thinking about this the past week - and that is nonamericans say we have it good in America. Ya, we do. Japan has it better (in the following manner). That is they really dont have much to worry about when it comes to being attacked by someone else. This country is thousands of times safer than America. The last time something bad happened to this country was in 95 in Tokyo subway where a cult here released sarin gas killing like 13 people and obviously enjuring more. but still the number is not that high. They got it easy here.

Also before, i used to be opposed to gun control - hell i used to say if everyone has a gun theird be no violence bc if one person pulls a gun than 10 ppl point their gun back at them. Well after living here where guns are banned ill admit thats the wrong way of thinking. This country is unbelievably safe. Ive walked down alleys at 12 am here and not had to worry about getting mugged by a guy with a gun where i cant do that in a nice suburb in America.

If you look at it in terms of saftey alone, Japan's standard of living puts us to shame. if you dont include saftey id say were pretty similar. somethings are better here than in America and vice versa.

The gun control debate can be attributed to other factors, such as culture towards violence, as apposed to the availaibility of firearms and other such weapons.

The gun control debate can be attributed to other factors, such as culture towards violence, as apposed to the availaibility of firearms and other such weapons.
I was thinking the same thing, but didn't want to post because it is the AutoNews forum.

Anyway, performance is pretty big in Japan of course, but probably not all that important anywhere else.

The gun control debate can be attributed to other factors, such as culture towards violence, as apposed to the availaibility of firearms and other such weapons.

I definately agree, but the fact does still remain. if there are no guns no one would get shot. but i really doubt there would ever be no guns in Americe

I definately agree, but the fact does still remain. if there are no guns no one would get shot. but i really doubt there would ever be no guns in Americe

Your right, not shot, but still blugeoned, stabbed, or worse.

I definately agree, but the fact does still remain. if there are no guns no one would get shot. but i really doubt there would ever be no guns in Americe
Perhaps, but making guns illegal is competely different than making all of them magically disappear and preventing criminals (who by definition do not obey the laws) from having or using them.

Back to the topic, doesn't Japan have steadily increasing registration fees for older cars to make an incentive for those that own them to buy newere ones?

Just read an article in the Shanghai Times this morning...
Chinese legislators just concluded their 10-day annual session yesterday, and there is a run on SUVs and performance cars hitting for the rest of this month because the government has raised taxes on SUVs and vehicles which are rated as "performance", burn more than XX liters/km, or have engines over 2.8L. The government cited the need to direct oil and fuels into national growth instead of wasting it in heavy and non-economical cars.
New taxations are as high as 12-20% per vehicle.
Hmmmm.... makesyathink, donit? :think:

Guess who they cited as the leading "offenders"...
Hummers... SUVs... Caddys (engine size)...
You can plainly see that this new taxation per vehicle is going to affect the importers more than the domestic names because of engine size as much as anything. Neat how they can use "economic growth" as a tool to levy another tariff on imports. And let's not kid ourselves here guys, it is nothing but a tariff. THIS is the kind of thing I have been trying to describe on this board that keeps true "free trade" from occurring - these boys over here don't play by the rules. :no: They won't levy a tariff against the importing manufacturer directly, they just make the vehicle so high-priced to the buyer that no-one will buy it. Suh-weet.:rolleyes:

It's Wednesday night here right now... I hope to get by the car dealerships this coming weekend - take a few hours and really dig in, get some photos, brochures, etc, and maybe ask some questions.

(PS - not going to hijack my own thread, but if you think gun control is a good thing, ask ANY canadian, Australian, Brit, German, Chzech...
Australia has rampant issues with violence since repealing gun rights, and the people are fed up with it. Hitler's main goal was to strip the populous of their arms before beginning his master plan because he knew the public would revolt (and they would have too - the majority of common Germans did not approve of Hitler's rule, but they were defenseless to oust him.

Someone else was right about the issue in Japan - it's more of a cultural issue than one of humanity as a whole.)