Serious question: What makes cars fun to drive if it's not power and handling alone??

I've been thinking about this for awhile, and because I've read it in 2 threads this morning, I wanted to ask this. I didn't want to post this in the "Lounge" because I wanted to keep this as a real conversation with real car owners, and this will inevitably turn to new cars, and future cars as well.

The most fun car I've ever has was my '85 Mustang. It was crude, rough, primative by today's standards. I bought it less than 2 years old, and put on over 220,000 miles when I sold it. The newer fox Mustangs I had were also a load of fun as well.

But, although my '97 Z was alot quicker and could perform feats that would have gotten me killed in my Mustang, it wasn't more fun than the 5.0 unless I took the t-tops off. The Z was fun... just not as fun.

My 2002 B4C is the quickest and most capable car I've ever owned, but it's fun factor is even less than the 97 was. To be honest, I have more fun blasting my '89 SC around than my B4C...... yes, I'm serious. :shock:


In another thread, someone mentioned how they felt their 3rd gen V6 was more fun than what they drive now. Charlie pointed out (and he's by no means alone) that the Mustang GT is more fun to drive than the faster, better made, IRS GTO.

It's obvious that faster cars and better handling cars do not automatically equal more fun to drive cars. Why is that?


What is it that makes cars more fun to drive?

steering/throttle response
a tight and smooth gear box. Not a stick that wobbles around, but stays firmly inplace throughout its motion.

Brute power makes a car fun for me to drive.

Probably for the thrill seekers, cars that seem like they are on the edge when you push them to the driver's limit as opposed to cars with limits that are way above the driver.

The most fun I've had is my buddy's S2000, and then second my former '91 Corvette.

It's feeling the road without being distracted by jarring and jolts. Tight dimensions and a nice exhaust note help too.

Seating position matters quite a bit to me. I feel "perched" in a Mustang, while with the above two mentioned and an F-body, I feel more part of the car.

That's the whole non-quantifiable factor that comes into play that always makes the BMW 3-series win every side by side editorial it has ever been in for the last 10 years.

The whole man meets machine, man becomes one with machine factor.

The reason why my 95 Maxima SE and now my 06 Audi A4 feel more confidence inspiring, controlable, and just generally more fun to drive around turns than my Z28 ever did. Even if my Z28 might win on a road course, it just never felt as tossable, effortless, and such.

Sitting nice and low in my C5 gives you that race car feel, Plus the targa top is great. I love the adjustable seat boslter that can hold you right into the seat.
Also blasting through the gears in the 6-speed.

But my 1991 Camaro RS 305 TBI was also fun even though it was really slow (170 hp), it sat low, had t-tops, and a 5-speed.

Probably for the thrill seekers, cars that seem like they are on the edge when you push them to the driver's limit as opposed to cars with limits that are way above the driver.
I think he hit it on the head. Probably because the limits are easier to reach, coupled with better initial steering response (definately a notch up for 3rd gens compared to 4th gens), better throttle response, more predictable behavior, etc.

The feeling of control over a vehicle makes for a fun drive; everything being "dialed in." Tight, responsive steering lend well to this quality, as does less mass. Having a manual transmission fits in this category of control. The more power you can add while retaining this feel the better, but I think power is secondary.

There is also an x-factor that creates the visceral experience. This may be the thrill of open-air motoring, the sound of the engine screaming or exhaust, the onset of thrust from a turbo charger, or the attention garned behind the wheel of a eye-catching design.

All IMHO of course, but here are some vehicles I've owned/driven and the qualities that stood out to me:
Miata (control, open-air)
WRX (control, turbo)
C6 Corvette Convertible (attention, open-air)

All were more fun than the 4th gen Firebird Formula I owned, despite having less power in most cases.

What makes cars fun to drive if it's not power and handling alone??

Personal Perception and Preferences.

Personal Perception and Preferences.

Agreed. "Fun to drive" is something different for everyone.

For me, carving curves in northern Michigan in the SS, with the tops out, banging through the gears....it just doesn't get any better. Yeah, I know that technically there may be lighter/nimbler/whatever cars out there to do this. But to me, I can't imagine the experience being any more gratifying.

Personal Perception and Preferences.

Same here too!

For me, my '99 is my daily car and its what I call Fun to Drive.

Although it was more fuel friendly before the TH350/3600 converter swap... every thing about the car interest me. When I think about "commuting" or running an errand, cruising, or going out on the town the ride to and fro automatically makes each task more desirable.

Its black.
Its loud, but not annoying.
For some reason I love the effect of the stall converter around town.
I love the INSTANT response and how it hits its torque instantly to propel out of any situation.
I have a 12" speaker and amp, and the total sound package leaves me, personally, nothing else to desire with the audio.
It sits down a little in the back and so does my drivers seat. Instead of that "riding in a pickup truck or van perspective, or the sitting on a barstool feel" I like the cars low slung sleek position. Its like feeling like a fighter pilot waiting in the fog with the guns armed and ready to dog fight.
I think the car looks good and people near me look and aparently agree.

Those are just a few reasons I enjoy the '99...

I agree its different for different people.

For me its being at or near the limit. My 89 RS wasn't fast but it was fun to drive with the top down. Seating position is also a big factor for me. One reason I like my Camaro over my roomates 99 Mustang GT (it is fun to drive but not anything like my car). The PERCEPTION of power is the other thing. My 89 actually felt fast sometimes because it had decent torque, my current car really gets the job done but the best car in this department was my buddies 74 Vette. That thing felt like it was going to explode when you floored the throttle. My car is actually a little faster though it turns out.

My old 94 GT felt more "fun" than did my 98 z28 despite the HUGE power difference. Before i bought the GT back in 2000, i looked at many 95/96 LT1 birds and camaro's, and despite them killing every mustang of that era (except the limited production Cobra's and R's) in everything related to performance, i decided to go with the slower GT instead and i've had NO regrets.

Guy,

I didn't say my 3rd gen V6 was more fun than what I have now, but that it was A LOT of fun despite being down on power. Power is not everything. Unequivocally, my Z28 is more fun than my RS. However, my Grand Prix is far quicker than the RS, but not nearly as much fun as the RS. The RS had that elemental, raw appeal to it that is totally filtered in the GP. The GTO feels like a fast Grand Prix to me, and that's why I can see where people would prefer the pony-car-appeal of the Mustang to the GTO when talking about fun-to-drive.

Personal Perception and Preferences.

and state of mind.

You fondly remember driving your 85 Mustang. If you drove it again today, it might be a different story.

Randy

Boy, hard to quantify, but you know it when you feel it. Lots of specifics combined with lots of Gestalt effect.

For me, large size is the enemy of fun. Weight is the enemy of fun. Parts not working properly are the enemy of fun.

To be honest, some of the most fun cars I've ever driven haven't necessarily been the most powerful. But they've been the most responsive. The steering/brakes/chassis talk to you. The motor sings to you. They ALL obey your commands instantaneously. You become a seamless extension of the cars mechanicals.


OTOH, I remember driving my friend's old mid-'70's, I6, three on the floor, short bed, Chevy pickup. It was fun too....for some strange reason. Maybe it was that old truck's torquey stovebolt being smoothly shifted with that 2 foot long shifter.....
Or maybe....... it was because it was a beautiful summer day and I was picking up a couple of beer kegs and some ice for a block party with it. :)

I don't know what it is but I call it the x factor and the first gen mustang had it in spades.

and state of mind.

You fondly remember driving your 85 Mustang. If you drove it again today, it might be a different story.

Randy

That's just it. It wasn't.

I took a friends Mustang 5.0 ('93) out recently, and it was just as fun as I remember those cars being. Then I got back in my B4C Camaro. That's the thing that got me thinking.

The Camaro is hella quicker, and holds the road like that Mustang never could. Solid as a cave by comparison....But I had a blast in that Mustang. :)

For me, it's the details.

First of all, it needs to shift smoothly and precisely. This is something that American car companies almost completely suck at doing, unfortunately. The steering and clutch need to also operate with precision. When you have good handling without these traits, it's okay, but with them...much closer to nirvana. It also matters for the car to make the right sounds. I want to hear pure engine..no clatter, clicking or whatever. These are some of the factors that were considered in my wife's last car (Jetta) and her current (the Sube). Both are quite fun to drive, despite being slow.

That said, I can't really explain why I enjoy my Mustang so much, other than the sound part, it has what I call the "clunk-o-matic" transmission, complete with balky shifter, poor fit and finish, fair handling (smooth roads only) and I still enjoy it more than I did my '94 Z28 and most other cars I've driven. I guess it's just got lots of personality. Honestly, there aren't any sub $30,000 cars I'd rather have than my 5 year old mustang. Not even a new one.

I will say one thing...I was just irresponsible and backed the Z28 out of the garage for the first time since last November. No plates on it or anything...I backed it out after warming it up, and ripped off down my street and back. Yeah, its fun to drive :D :)

Thankfully my street gets 1 car an hour on it, and there was nothing to hit. I would've been screwed if I did, obviously...but man, I'll be thinking about that until it hits the road again in June :D

funnest car 1996 geo metro.. do what ever u want with it. an get damn good millage while doin it..

I still feel my 83 Z28 was more fun than my current 98 Z28, even though it was way slower! To me the 83 was more tossable, felt more nimble, and it involved the driver more, whereas the 98 is so refined that you basically point and shoot and it's over. It was just a feeling while driving the cars, but sometimes refinement takes away some of the "fun" factor by making the cars too easy to drive fast. I know the 83 made me feel more connected to the road, while the 98 seems to lack all the feedback necessary to quantify it as a "drivers" car.

That's just it. It wasn't.

I took a friends Mustang 5.0 ('93) out recently, and it was just as fun as I remember those cars being. Then I got back in my B4C Camaro. That's the thing that got me thinking.

The Camaro is hella quicker, and holds the road like that Mustang never could. Solid as a cave by comparison....But I had a blast in that Mustang. :)

What about the visibility and ease of driving? That, with power and handling makes for a fun-to-drive car for me.

My '81 is fun as hell to drive.

It's slow, it's crude, it's loud... but it's different. You don't see them that nice, well, ever, so people stare. And that to me is fun.

:p

OTOH, I remember driving my friend's old mid-'70's, I6, three on the floor, short bed, Chevy pickup. It was fun too....for some strange reason. Maybe it was that old truck's torquey stovebolt being smoothly shifted with that 2 foot long shifter.....



That reminds me of something I found strange about my old ’93 F-150 I-6 5-spd. I could heel-toe it, but not my ’01 M6 Z28. :confused:

The whole man meets machine, man becomes one with machine factor.


Threxx nailed it