What do you want to know about Zeta? Bob Lutz answers.

Not sure if this interview with the Product Chairman of General Motors was posted yet.

From Autoweek: 3/2/06

The Pontiac GTO lives! It will be replaced in late 2008 by an all-new model underpinned by General Motors’ latest rear-wheel-drive Zeta platform, with a strong likelihood of it being built on the same production line as the Chevrolet Camaro in North America.

That’s the message from General Motors vice president for global product development, Bob Lutz, at this week’s Geneva motor show.

The replacement for today’s slowish-selling GTO was canceled last year when General Motors announced it was reorganizing its North American operations and was set to focus its efforts on creating a new line of sport/utility vehicles, pickups and crossovers.

But Lutz has told AutoWeek that reports of the rear-wheel-drive coupe’s death were premature and the next-generation GTO’s development program was only really placed on hold, and—after some internal reorganization to ensure profitability targets can be met—it is now back on.

“The reason we said it was canceled is because that way our people would put their pencils down,” Lutz said. “In GM if you say something is deferred, then people keep working on it. We really needed to get that message through to everybody.” GM’s 74-year-old product guru said the program into which the GTO is incorporated was ‘getting out of control’ and running up costs that would have made it unworkable.

“It was my fault that it got out of control in the first place,” he added. “It was going to be the world’s greatest car and apparently cost nothing to make. So we’ve started over now. The program is back on and it’s going full tilt.”

Lutz confirmed that the GTO was “only ever off for two months, but that break has enabled us to get a more feasible program up.” The program he points to is General Motors’ Zeta rear-wheel-drive platform, which is being developed by Holden in Australia and set to underpin the new-generation Commodore due to be launched in August.

Besides Camaro and GTO, other models set to be based on the Zeta platform are upcoming replacements for the Chevrolet Impala and Monte Carlo, and a new car called the Buick Statesman, according to Lutz.

Contrary to rumors, however, Lutz said General Motors is not planning to revive the Pontiac Firebird. “No, that’s not something we are planning. We are not going to do that car,” he said.

When pushed on whether GM was thinking about bringing back the El Camino off the Zeta platform, Lutz beamed with enthusiasm. “The kids in the company, myself included, would love to do another El Camino, but the grown-ups amongst us don’t share that way of thinking,” he said. “It would be fairly simple. We’d only have to put a Chevrolet face on the Holden Ute [a car-like pickup sold in Australia]. The building blocks are there.”

Less sophisticated than the existing rear-wheel-drive Sigma platform found beneath the Cadillac STS and other high-end GM models, the Zeta architecture is said to be considerably cheaper to produce, owing to a simplified rear-suspension arrangement and other features.

Lutz suggests the individual character of GM models would not be compromised by basing them around one platform. “We have developed different dash-to-front-axle lengths for various models,” he said. “It [the Zeta platform] is a really flexible platform.”

Along with Australia and North America, Zeta-based rear-wheel-drive models are also being developed for sale in the Middle East and China. Details remain scarce, though GM’s business case for the new GTO is rumored to be based around sales of between 15,000 and 20,000 per year in North America. After a promising start, today’s model has failed to live up to initial estimates recording 13,569 sales in 2004 and just 11,590 in 2005.

Lutz confirmed that GM’s Australian subsidiary, Holden, would play a leading role in the engineering of the GTO [where it is sold as the Monaro] and its sister car, the Camaro. “Holden is responsible for the large rear-drive architecture that these cars are based on. If it happens, Holden will do the development on the Camaro as well as the GTO,” he told AutoWeek.

Despite being developed in Australia, however, there are strong indications the next GTO will be built in North America. “Whether the GTO will be built in Australia [as the current Pontiac GTO is] will largely depend on the [U.S. vs. Australian dollar] exchange rate at the time,” said Lutz. He added, “With the current strength of the Australian dollar and the recent Free Trade Agreement between Australia and the U.S., it would be more feasible to build the GTO in North America. This raises the possibility of both the new-generation GTO and Camaro being imported to Australia in right-hand-drive guise.

Production of today’s Pontiac GTO is planned to end in September, leaving GM with two years before the new Zeta-based model arrives in North American showrooms. As with the recently unveiled Chevrolet Camaro, it is expected to carry a more retro-inspired design with cues from earlier GTO models. Today’s model started life as the Holden Monaro and was never envisaged to carry the GTO badge, leading to complaints from North American buyers that it lacks any visual connection with the original.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060302/FREE/60302001/1039



Well......

GTO is on.

Buick gets a Zeta sedan.

Monte Carlo lives.

The program was halted for just 2 months.

Firebird is dead.

El Camino is still being debated.

The center stamping that's key to Zeta's various sizes (grey in the Camaro CAD drawing) are mentioned.

Sounds pretty straightforward and direct to me.

Also sounds alot like what I've been saying for the past couple of weeks, save the Pontiac sedan that's also in the portfolio for approval. :)

Guy, you've gotta lay off the Gin Fizzles (or whatever the name of that drink is). :) j/k

These are the comments that we had our brisk discussion about last week.

.

Firebird is dead.



What is really interesting is that in any of these posts from GM officials, nothing is ever mentioned about the Trans Am.

If Firebird is dead, Tran Am almost certainly is. GM never liked paying for the name.

Guy, you've gotta lay off the Gin Fizzles (or whatever the name of that drink is). :) j/k

These are the comments that we had our brisk discussion about last week.

:lol: Gin Gimlets! Get it right, already!

Besides, I have bronchitus right now. Today I'm doing NiQuil slammers. ;)

Is that his official "Camaro is On" release? lol

Would the Camaro come a year before the new GTO?

How long did it take to federalize the Monaro for US safety regulations?

Is that his official "Camaro is On" release? lol

Would the Camaro come a year before the new GTO?

I think early 2008 is still our best bet.

But anyway, all sounds good to me, Bob sure is the best source:D

So with this news, and I'm assuming when they say "the replacements for the Impala and Monte" that they will be keeping the name and they will be RWD versions of the current cars....more or less...

But with my thinking, this would mean that Oshawa would be making Zeta cars since the Impala and MC name were restricted to Oshawa. If not, then we may still see the Chevelle name back as suggested by Guy in the Future of MC post.

Hmmmm.... could this mean that we may see the LS4 as the base Camaro and the LS2 as the Top camaro..or could it still be feasible to have a V6 Camaro with a RWD V6 Monte??

Also, could we finially see the 6 sp auto in the MC and Impala as well as possible Manual??? Oh please Auto Gods... Make it happen

Boy, I hope I'm wrong...but I still don't expect anything for another 3 years, give or take. Maybe alittle less if we're lucky. Probably Impala first, then quickly followed by Camaro.....and then whatever else.

So is the new rwd Chevy sedan going to be the Impala? For a while it was debated what name it would get. I guess if they use a 67 Impala for inspiration, then what else could you call it.

Boy, I hope I'm wrong...but I still don't expect anything for another 3 years, give or take. Maybe alittle less if we're lucky. Probably Impala first, then quickly followed by Camaro.....and then whatever else.

You really think that the Impala, which just got a refreash, is going to beat the Camaro to market? Doesn't seem logical. I'd think GM could make more money putting out the new nameplate first (Camaro) then replace the existing nameplate (Impala). I'd also expect a G8/Grand Prix before an Impala.:shrug:

Boy, I hope I'm wrong...but I still don't expect anything for another 3 years, give or take. Maybe alittle less if we're lucky. Probably Impala first, then quickly followed by Camaro.....and then whatever else.


Z284ever=Prince if Darkness:death:

"Upcoming replacement for the Monte Carlo" does not necessarily mean a new Monte Carlo, it may actually be a total replacement.

Is that his official "Camaro is On" release? lol

Would the Camaro come a year before the new GTO?

Depends. If Camaro is made in a separate factory, it will be out before the sedans. If it's made on the same line, it will be out the same time as the sedans. Expect GTO to be made at the same time as Camaro.

You really think that the Impala, which just got a refreash, is going to beat the Camaro to market? Doesn't seem logical. I'd think GM could make more money putting out the new nameplate first (Camaro) then replace the existing nameplate (Impala). I'd also expect a G8/Grand Prix before an Impala.:shrug:
Impala is a very important program. W-car will probably be gone by '08/'09. It's replacement must be waiting in the wings.
I expect the timing for release on Camaro and Impala to be very close to each other.

Yeah but would the GTO parts be developed side by side with Camaro or after Camaro? I get the impression that the GTO could be longer than a Camaro so it would have to have possibly different doors, longer driveshaft, longer center floor section, different brake and fuel lines, different body wiring harness potentially and so forth.

Depends. If Camaro is made in a separate factory, it will be out before the sedans. If it's made on the same line, it will be out the same time as the sedans. Expect GTO to be made at the same time as Camaro.
So they key is what plant gets the cars. If Camaro goes to Willmington it should be 1st to market because the plant doesn't have to wait for a product cycle to end. If it goes to Oshawa then it would likely be at the same time as the sedans.

Will the GP/Lacrosse's plant stop production of its cars and move them to the other Oshawa plant while Zetas setup shop in the GP/LaX plant? If so then the Zeta sedans could be put online while the Impala keeps up the volume.

Weren't one of the Oshwa plants closing?

Weren't one of the Oshwa plants closing?

e-mail me your number.

I read as far as "I think early '08 is our best shot for release".......nah..Earlier than that.

2007.

e-mail me your number.
can I too :confused:


:p

What I want to know about the Camaro...
How much
How fast
How soon

:D

e-mail me your number.
Can I get the transcript of this conversation?

Can I get the transcript of this conversation?

yeah, me too !!!

yeah, me too !!!
Ok. Everyone that wants a CC reply here. Guy looks like you are on. :D

Ok. Everyone that wants a CC reply here. Guy looks like you are on. :D


we also want a certain coupe allocated to Wilmington

Ok. Everyone that wants a CC reply here. Guy looks like you are on. :D


You guys are funny!


Before Guy calls you, he faxes you a confidenciality agreement that you have to sign in blood and mail back:D

You guys are funny!


Before Guy calls you, he faxes you a confidenciality agreement that you have to sign in blood and mail back:D

Along with half of your pinky finger.

I read as far as "I think early '08 is our best shot for release".......nah..Earlier than that.

2007.

HA HA HA - LOL

So, how many vehicles are we looking at from Zeta?

Chevrolet: Camaro, Monte Carlo/Chevelle, Impala, El Camino
Buick: Roadmaster? And coupes?
Pontiac: GTO, G8/Grand Prix
Cadillac: ?
SAAB: ?
Holden: Pretty much their entire RWD lineup?

Along with half of your pinky finger.
How do you fit the finger into the fax machine? Or do you have to UPS that baby?

I've hear rumours that it's possible the Zeta Platform may come in two forms(a LWB & a SWB). This actually could be true it one considers that Lutz stated the the Zeta Platform is capable of being used for a wide range of applications.

Now we've already seen the SWB version of the Zeta in the Camaro Concept

But a long wheelbase version may be about the same size as the CTS chassis(about 113 inches)

Here's what I think is possible.

Chevy
Camaro - (SWB) Zeta Performance(Pony car) Coupe
Impala - (LWB) Zeta Performance Sedan

Pontiac
GTO - (LWB) Zeta Performance(Musclecar) Coupe
Grand Prix/G8 - (LWB) Zeta Performance Sedan

Buick
Roadmaster - (LWB) Zeta Performance Sedan

Holden
Most of the large RWD line - including a coupe, sedan & sport truck.

No Cadillac model will likely get the Zeta Platform. As Cadillac mostly uses the more expensive Sigma Platform, now. A Platform that is perfect for GM's Luxury line.

There may be more than just a SWB/LWB distinction with Zeta. Holden uses a SWB for it's standard sedan and coupe models, and the LWB for wagon, ute and luxury sedans. If the Camaro is to roll on a shorter lenght than the Commodore, then there will need to be three wheelbase lenghts to cover the known models.

It's not simply only wheelbase. Compare the Camaro concept and some of the VE Commodore spy pics. Note the difference in dash to front axle lengths for example.

Compared to the previously cancelled Zeta GTO/Chevy coupe, the Camaro has some length taken out of it's midsection and perhaps alittle longer dash to front axle length.

Lutz mentioned in the OP that the dash to axle length was easily changed (I'm sure easy is a relative term here)

Lutz mentioned in the OP that the dash to axle length was easily changed (I'm sure easy is a relative term here)

From the dash forward, Camaro has a completely unique structure compared to the sedans. It appears that they will ALL share the same tall cowl heights, however. :(

From the dash forward, Camaro has a completely unique structure compared to the sedans. It appears that they will ALL share the same tall cowl heights, however. :(

There may be more than just a SWB/LWB distinction with Zeta. Holden uses a SWB for it's standard sedan and coupe models, and the LWB for wagon, ute and luxury sedans. If the Camaro is to roll on a shorter lenght than the Commodore, then there will need to be three wheelbase lenghts to cover the known models.

I think the floorpans are more expensive to make than the rest of the car, so I'd imagine there's probally 2 wheelbases along with length extentions (front & rear) to change length.

Finally, the "firewall" (thermal event separator for the people who cringe at that term) seems to be a non-factor here, and theres going to be differences in the firewall to front wheel distances between different Zeta cars.

The underhood arrangements and surrounding structure are actually going to be the same to simplifiy crash tests and keep cost down.

These cars seem like they are going to be the "Lego" of car construction. The technical articles on this chassis should be very intresting reading. :)

in simplistic terms......think of Zeta as a Boeing 737........there are several lengths. (very simplistic, mind you.....Boeing 737s pretty much all look the same.....)

I think you have too many coupes listed!

(hint: people tend to refer to a platform as "Impala/Monte Carlo".....)

I think you have too many coupes listed!




:think:

in simplistic terms......think of Zeta as a Boeing 737........there are several lengths. (very simplistic, mind you.....Boeing 737s pretty much all look the same.....)

I think you have too many coupes listed!

(hint: people tend to refer to a platform as "Impala/Monte Carlo".....)

Ahhhhhhh d@mnit.... add some winkys while your at it. :eek: :eek: :eek: ;) ;) ;) ;)

You guys are gonna give people an anxiety attack.

In all seriousness I really enjoy the slightly more open speak that's apparent these days, than say a year ago. I appreciate the hints even without the use of winkys.

Definitely good times, now when can I buy? ;) ;)

So is an El Camino considered a coupe???


Wasn;t it indicated that Buick was just going to get a Sedan, and not a Coupe???

Ok, thats all of the coupes that I want eliminated (and I wasn't counting the El Camino as a coupe :D )

Along with half of your pinky finger.How do you fit the finger into the fax machine? Or do you have to UPS that baby?FedEx Overnight.....trust me. ;)

FedEx Overnight.....trust me. ;)
OK, Digit.

in simplistic terms......think of Zeta as a Boeing 737........there are several lengths. (very simplistic, mind you.....Boeing 737s pretty much all look the same.....)

I think you have too many coupes listed!

(hint: people tend to refer to a platform as "Impala/Monte Carlo".....)

Hmmmm. A "Impala/Monte Carlo" platform.... :think:
.......different lengths....like a 737.....:think:
.....Camaro coupe.........:think:
..... a confirmed GTO......
...but too many coupes...... :think:

There's so many hints and clues in that post, I'm surprised someone's head hasn't exploded yet. :lol: ;)

There's so many hints and clues in that post, I'm surprised someone's head hasn't exploded yet. :lol: ;)

I'm sure some have, we just haven't heard them. It's kind of like a tree falling in a woods...

Monte quad coupe? Is it the Buick coupes that might be the "too many"?

Hmmmm. A "Impala/Monte Carlo" platform.... :think:
.......different lengths....like a 737.....:think:
.....Camaro coupe.........:think:
..... a confirmed GTO......
...but too many coupes...... :think:

There's so many hints and clues in that post, I'm surprised someone's head hasn't exploded yet. :lol: ;)

GTO sedan?

GTO sedan?


:think:

Hmmmm. A "Impala/Monte Carlo" platform.... :think:
.......different lengths....like a 737.....:think:
.....Camaro coupe.........:think:
..... a confirmed GTO......
...but too many coupes...... :think:

There's so many hints and clues in that post, I'm surprised someone's head hasn't exploded yet. :lol: ;)

believe me I have..... I'm still trying to clean up the mess sinces F-bod Father's post like 5 hours ago. :bow:

I say give me a Monte like the 4th gen and I'll be .....:D

There's so many hints and clues in that post, I'm surprised someone's head hasn't exploded yet. :lol: ;)

mine is getting there.. my head hurts trying to interpret Scott's post

Unless the Monte is considered too redundant with the Camaro....

:think:

When they refer to Impala/Monte Carlo....I am gonna go out on a limb here and guess they are referring to Chevy's sedan...they just don't know if it will be called Impala or Monte Carlo. It would make perfect sense really to call the sedan Monte Carlo since a) the name has a little more equity than the current car uses, b) the new Monte is a very slight referesh compared to Impala (so replacing it in only 2-3 years is much more paletable from an accounting POV), and c) a large RWD Chevy Coupe would almost certainly be called Chevelle.

I can just see Scott in front of his computer screen.....

Takes a drag from a cig....

Takes a sip of iced tea....

Reads all these responses and chuckles.....

I can just see Scott in front of his computer screen.....

Takes a drag from a cig....

Takes a sip of iced tea....

Reads all these responses and chuckles.....or goes to level 9.

When they refer to Impala/Monte Carlo....I am gonna go out on a limb here and guess they are referring to Chevy's sedan...they just don't know if it will be called Impala or Monte Carlo. It would make perfect sense really to call the sedan Monte Carlo since a) the name has a little more equity than the current car uses, b) the new Monte is a very slight referesh compared to Impala (so replacing it in only 2-3 years is much more paletable from an accounting POV), and c) a large RWD Chevy Coupe would almost certainly be called Chevelle.
I can't see a car styled after a mid 60s Impala being called Monte Carlo, which has ALWAYS been a coupe and a rather large one at that.

I think he is saying Impala/MC was the options and Impala one. MC is dead, unless it is a package, like the V8 version or something. Even then I don't think it is likely. Outside of Nascar what marketing does the MC have? What is its presence in the market? It is a FWD coupe, a large one at that. It has virtually no cache outside of Nascar. GM won't keep a model around for Nascar when it has SO many names it could use.

Chevelle doesn't fit either. MC could be a quad coupe sister to a quad coupe GTO, that might work. But how do you slot them so they don't overlap.

To confusing this late before bed. Now I am going to get NO sleep. Thanks Scott.:mad:


:p

I can't see a car styled after a mid 60s Impala being called Monte Carlo, which has ALWAYS been a coupe and a rather large one at that.

I think he is saying Impala/MC was the options and Impala one. MC is dead, unless it is a package, like the V8 version or something. Even then I don't think it is likely. Outside of Nascar what marketing does the MC have? What is its presence in the market? It is a FWD coupe, a large one at that. It has virtually no cache outside of Nascar. GM won't keep a model around for Nascar when it has SO many names it could use.

Chevelle doesn't fit either. MC could be a quad coupe sister to a quad coupe GTO, that might work. But how do you slot them so they don't overlap.

To confusing this late before bed. Now I am going to get NO sleep. Thanks Scott.:mad:


:p

How does the Grand Prix and Impala work now???? Just because Pontiac will have the GTO doesn;t mean that Chevy can have a sister version, aka Monte Carlo. It could very easily be like the current GP GXP and Impala SS where the GTO gets the more sporty suspention, and the MC gets the touring suspention.

I believe the key is that they need these supporting cars to make the Camaro profitable, and I'm sure the MC can sell just as well as it is now.... maybe even a little better

Looks like Zeta will be pretty flexible. Kinda like Nissan's FM. Now try to shoe-horn some t-tops into one of those Zeta coupes. :D

Looks like Zeta will be pretty flexible. Kinda like Nissan's FM. Now try to shoe-horn some t-tops into one of those Zeta coupes. :D

Actually, Kappa is more suited. :)

Actually, Kappa is more suited. :)
But not to 2+2 applitcations.

Actually, Kappa is more suited. :)
You're kidding right? More minds blowing up...

Quote:
Originally Posted by guionM
Actually, Kappa is more suited.

But not to 2+2 applitcations.


Stingray? Chevy gets a small coupe with either targa or Ts instead of vert?

Chevy has a small coupe called Cobalt.

Any coupe version of Kappa needs to be in Pontiac showrooms.

Chevy has a small coupe called Cobalt.

Any coupe version of Kappa needs to be in Pontiac showrooms.pontiac has a small coupe as well.;)

pontiac has a small coupe as well.;)
Yes somehow I forgot to mention that in my post :)

Pontiac should have some sort of Kappa variation for a cheap car (if it is possible) and not the G5.