To clear up some misconceptions about Japanese cars

I drive an "import" Toyota. The parts were made in the U.S.A and the shipped to Cambridge Ontario to be assembled. The parts are shared alongside with GM-vehicles; i.e I've seen Chevy Trackers with the same window switches and similar parts. Toyota has worked their ass off to get a good reputation, it has nothing to do with them being Japanese, because the concept of Japanese cars ALL being reliable is BS. :bs:

I was having an argument with a friend today and he mentioned that he thinks the big 3 will go bankrupt and he will be happy because they all make gas guzzling cars that were unreliable. I asked him where he was getting his information and he told me that it was from "people he's talked to" about it.
He is Japanese, and said that the Japanese make superior cars and run their businesses better.

I kindly reminded him of the Nissan bankruptcy of the early 90s (I think around 1989-1990) which he neglected to acknowledge.
I mentioned Mitsubishi being abandoned by Chrysler because of their shoddy quality and reliability records, and their warranty scaldal (2000). Then I brought up older Datsun, Honda and Toyota reputations for corrosion and rust at early ages. But went on to say that the #1 lemon for 2004 is the Subaru Impreza, among with an Acura and an Infiniti making the list as well. But it goes onto the gas-guzzling rotaries ala Mazda which eventually exploded, amongst other reliability and quality issues of the Mazda lineup, including some Mazda 6s not being properly rust-proofed and showing up with rust around the inside of the door sills upon delivery, spontaniously exploding airbags, etc.
Though I do stand by my claim that Toyota does make good cars, they have to work hard to do so. And that it seems Japanese companies are more often than not inferior in reliability records when compared to their GM competitors.
But people will still believe that every car is created the same, and that if it is from a Japanese mark, it automatically makes it of high reliability, which in itself is entirely BS.

CNN did an article on american reliability and US cars overall beat out Japanese cars over all by 2 points.

If you think americans build better cars than the japs especially in the long term you're living in the woods with your head in the sand, earmuffs on and your eyes closed....

The big 3 are making great strides but even the best the big3 have to offer aren't up to par with Nissan the worst of the *** Big3. Toyota and Honda are still ahead in terms of quality and reliability. I hope the big3 turn the corner but I'm not holding my breath.

Didn't Malibu beat out Camry in recent quality reviews by JD Powers, in both fit & finish and reliability? I'm pretty sure.

Didn't Malibu beat out Camry in recent quality reviews by JD Powers, in both fit & finish and reliability? I'm pretty sure.
Give it a year...
we have an 02 and an 05 malibu at work both are incredible piles of crap...I taken them both on trips and holy crap its unbelievable how horrid they are...

Is that why my 1992 Sunbird is still running reliably, with paint that still has a showroom shine and is intact, and with an interior that that hasn't fallen apart yet with over 120K miles, because GM builds crap? Yeah, sure... You can believe what you want. Only thing replaced was a timing belt. Yeah, very unreliable. :rolleyes:

My wifes 1998 GP with 98K has never been in the shop for anything other than state inspections. Don't paint with a broad brush because I can give many examples of Japanese "junk" I've owned over the years, not many luckily.

Is that why my 1992 Sunbird is still running reliably, with paint that still has a showroom shine and is intact, and with an interior that that hasn't fallen apart yet with over 120K miles, because GM builds crap? Yeah, sure... You can believe what you want. Only thing replaced was a timing belt. Yeah, very unreliable. :rolleyes:

My wifes 1998 GP with 98K has never been in the shop for anything other than state inspections. Don't paint with a broad brush because I can give many examples of Japanese "junk" I've owned over the years, not many luckily.
There's always exceptions to the rule, if you wanna live blind thats fine. I used to feel the same way till I woke up and realized that my grandpa was wrong and my dad was also wrong with reguards to GM and American cars. If you treat it right it will run for a long time. That is true of any car, but I have to say I take superb care of all my cars and my TA has been a good car, but the wind noise, the rattles etc are unacceptable in my opinion.

As for your sunbird if you honestly believe they're quality cars you need to drive something else. My brother and one of my best friends owned one, while they were both reasonably reliable they're hardly the pinnacle of a quality automobile.

That's correct, exceptions to the rule. And I'm sure there are thousands of exceptions to the rule that show Japenese cars falling apart also. Need I mention my 2 Acura Integras that basically fell apart at 70K? They are also exceptions to the rule.

Frankly, while we all have stories about this car we owned and what that friend said or what we thought we read somewhere; discussions like this about what nameplates/models are more reliable than another are pretty worthless.

There are industry standards for measuring quality of fit/finish, customer experience/satisfaction, resale value compared to MSRP when new, etc, etc, etc. If you really want to know; look them up although I'd suggest you look at lot's of them covering a significant period of time and not just the one out of dozens that happens to support your pet opinion (whatever "side" you happen to be on).

All manuracturers are working to to get better and each are looking at the other's prducts for ideas and benchmarking. All have had problems with specific models at one time or another and will continue to do so.

The real measure of a nameplate is not whether thay have problems but what they do, or not do, to address them.

Before I had my Camaro I drove a 92 Toyota Tercel. I thought I'd get a "good dependable" car. It had something like 64,000 miles, I thought it was good to go for a ton more miles. Boy was I wrong. The 1.5L was MISERABLE you truly risked death getting on the interstate. I had to turn the a/c off to keep up on hills. Not to mention the most uncomfortable seats, and talk about wind noise, you couldn't hear the passenger talking right next to you at 60mph. There was no carpet padding and everything was stripped down to save weight for mileage. (The sad thing is, I get about the same gas economy in my 94 Camaro 3.4L.) It even said in the owners manual to hose off any mud on the underside of the car to save your mileage. Now before anyone starts shouting LEMON! I need to say that my parents owned a 94 Tercel and that was the main reason I bought mine. Unfortunately, after I bought mine theirs started to fall apart. My Dad babied that car and it needed an engine rebuild at 120,000.

My Sister's 92 Camry had a defective v6 engine and was replaced at only 40,000 miles. My Girlfriend's family is so convinced that THEIR 92 Camry is going to get 300,000 miles that they've poured close to $3000 into the car in the last few thousand miles and it has well over 200,000 miles!

Toyota does make good cars, my oldest sister has close to 240,000 on a 98 Corolla, but my point is that they have made a few poor ones in their day too.

The thing is, many Toyota owners are NOT enthusiasts like most members here. They generally do not get out the keyboard and complain about their good or bad experiences. Therefore, there is also the assumption from some quarters that Toyota vehicles are fault free.

You only need to look at the recent article in autoweek regarding the long term evaluation of the Scion tC. The car had a tendency to "lurch" quite badly (Toyota blamed the driver) and that particular car also developed squeaks and rattles.

I'm realistic enough to admit that GM vehicles are not problem free... what gets to me is the fact that people are under the impression that Japanese cars are bulletproof for reliability. The media also gives this false impression... and do a lot of 'free' saleswork for the foreign brands.

One thing I always tell my dad, You can repair a car, but you cant make it more enjoyable from the day you drive it off the lot...

soo... you gotta get the car that is the most enjoyable, who cares if it breaks here or there... as long as you enjoy the car thats all that matters... soo i drive a 2 dr v8 trans am :cool:

My experience with American cars has been very good. My Jeep Comanche 4x4 went 475,000 miles. It was on its second motor, second alternator,second power steering pump, starter and radiator. The original tranny was still in their and workinf fine. I 4 wheel this truck, and used it for construction and towing my ski boat.
My 98 Camaro SS has 65k on the clock. Has at least 50 passes at the dragstrip, 100 autox days and a lot of spirited driving in the back roads. I have not had 1 problem with this car.
My 04 Dodge Ram has 51k and not 1 problem yet.

There's always exceptions to the rule,...
And personal experience is not a substitute for real world numbers. If companies that spend MILLIONS of dollard, hundreds of hours, and whos only jobs are to study dependability of cars sold in the US say that Ford/GM is even or slightly ahead of Japanese cars then you MUST accept that as FACT! Strategic Vision AND JD Powers both rate GM/Ford Vehicles on par with Japanese counterparts! Also if you remove niche brands like Hummers, SAABs, and Olds (may it RIP) GM has quite a bit higher average rating than MOST car companies. Also GM won't be having the quality growing pains that Toyota is experiencing right now because they have been at higher production levels than they currently are at for quite a while.

Basically I am telling you don't belive what your eyes see because you only see part of the picture.

I drive an "import" Toyota. The parts were made in the U.S.A and the shipped to Cambridge Ontario to be assembled. The parts are shared alongside with GM-vehicles; i.e I've seen Chevy Trackers with the same window switches and similar parts.
Just to clear a few things up, what kind of car do you drive and what year? What percentage of the parts were 'domestically sourced', it says on the window sticker I believe this car was new when you got it right? Also just because window switches look similar doesn't mean they are the same or even operate the same. The current window switches in GM cars look like older BMW ones, but that doesn't mean they are the same. They cover might look similar but the similarity stops there. BTW I would be willing to bet that any GM NA assembled vehicle has a higher domestic content than 90% of any imports, I specified GM because the Fusion triplets use quite a bit from the Mazda parts bin.

*Bump*

Cough..Jimbo...Cough

Originally posted by NewbieWar:
One thing I always tell my dad, You can repair a car, but you cant make it more enjoyable from the day you drive it off the lot...

soo... you gotta get the car that is the most enjoyable, who cares if it breaks here or there... as long as you enjoy the car thats all that matters... soo i drive a 2 dr v8 trans am :bow:
In a world of increasing practicality, we often forget the MOST important stat about the car we choose..
Does it make me get out of bed looking forward to driving it?
Can me and my children look back one day and say, "remember that cool "..X.." we used to own, what fun we had in that, man those were the days!"..
ALL cars break every now and then for many reasons, but fixing something you desperately LOVE to drive is better than keeping up, just a "mode of family transportation".
I agree we tend to put too much emphasis on practicality, too little on personal satisfaction.
Thanks Newbie, :thumb:

The two worst vehicles I've ever been privy to were a 2000 Chevy Astro and a 1990 Toyota Camry. Both had so many problems it was mind boggling. :cry:

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Nearly everyone has 'incidental' evidence to support their point of view (i.e. my brother had >insert brand here< and it was garbage)

Let's look at facts.

Go here:

http://www.chirpthird.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2391

By the way......Toyota does not make all their parts in America....or North America, for that matter. The window label gives North American Content...you'd be surprised at how much stuff goes into an 'American built' Toyota that is not sourced in North America.

If you think americans build better cars than the japs especially in the long term you're living in the woods with your head in the sand, earmuffs on and your eyes closed....

The big 3 are making great strides but even the best the big3 have to offer aren't up to par with Nissan the worst of the *** Big3. Toyota and Honda are still ahead in terms of quality and reliability. I hope the big3 turn the corner but I'm not holding my breath.

I have seen plenty of Honda's with problems. Their gearboxs were sh*t in the early 90s. Abuse a Honda, and it will die, just like any other car. I have seen this more than a few times as well. I have seen my fair share of Nissans that a crap as well. Nissan doesn't scream reliability to me (although I have no real problem with them either). Just yesterday, I was being a Corolla that was belching oil smoke out of its tailpipes.

You are allowed to have your own opinions, but just remember that they are not fact. I am not pro or anti anything. I have seen plenty of domestic cars that have close to or over 200,000 miles on them, and still run. Likewise for imports. Truth is, when cars get to be 10 or 15 years old, often times they start turning to trash, regardless of who makes them. Most people don't take really good care of their cars, so they fade, rust, scratch, start developing little problems here and there, start making noises, etc. I have no problem acknowledging that there are more than a few beat-ass, ragged on domestic POSs out there, but you would have to be blind to not see the import equivelants of those driving around as well. Last I checked I didn't live in the woods, there is no sand near me, my sight is fine, and I seldom wear anything over my ears.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Nearly everyone has 'incidental' evidence to support their point of view (i.e. my brother had >insert brand here< and it was garbage)

Let's look at facts.

Go here:

http://www.chirpthird.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2391

By the way......Toyota does not make all their parts in America....or North America, for that matter. The window label gives North American Content...you'd be surprised at how much stuff goes into an 'American built' Toyota that is not sourced in North America.
So, do you work for the General?

So, do you work for the General?

You obviously don't visit here very much.

Besides, so what if he does? GM didnt gather that information, so what does it matter?

You obviously don't visit here very much.

Besides, so what if he does? GM didnt gather that information, so what does it matter?
I'm on this site a lot, just recently started posting in the "news" section because I dont venture out of LT1 tech and Fbody lounge much, but I like this section now that I'm here...

Does he work for the general is all I wanna know, why the pussy hurt attitude?

If he works for the general I was actually going to tell him to keep up the good work and tell him I'm proud of the way they're making their products significantly better than they were even a generation ago, furthermore their customer service seems to be taking note. I say that because I've written numerous detailed emails to Chevy, Pontiac and the general and recieved multiple responses from each resulting in numerous email conversations one supposedly was from the head of Pontiac reguarding the solstice. I like that kind of response from a company and I like the fact that at least on the surface they appear to be listening to my input.

So, do you work for the General?
That is Scott Settlemire. He is in charge of concepts and displays at GM shows and the like. His previous job was Camaro brand manager.

That is Scott Settlemire. He is in charge of concepts and displays at GM shows and the like. His previous job was Camaro brand manager.
:cool: :)

CNN did an article on american reliability and US cars overall beat out Japanese cars over all by 2 points.
This was rather refreshing to read, however that's only one article! It's gonna take more than that one, to pull the people's ( I mean sheep's) heads out of the sand, with the constant bashing GM gets from the scumbags in the autopress, and regular press. ;) Still it's a good start, and shows GM is not making the product they made in the 80's, though there's alot of sheep out there that are still clueless. :p

Does he work for the general is all I wanna know, why the pussy hurt attitude?


Because I thought that is where that comment was going. I apologize. He does indeed work at GM, as has already been mentioned.

Curious as to what "domestic" content means? is that Canada and Mexico too or what?

Fact is that GM had some time where they slipped up on the quality (think early 90s to maybe 2000?) and lost a LOT of loyal customers to other brand marks. The GM dealer closest to me is HUUUGE but they treat you like a number.

To quote my friend who cannot get Ford to honor her factory warranty:
"i'm ****in buying an import next time"

To quote my friend who cannot get Ford to honor her factory warranty:
"i'm ****in buying an import next time"

What's the implied story around this?

What's the implied story around this?

That maybe lack of good customer service is turning people off? Though the same girl says the GM lot treats her amazingly, this is sadly not always the case.

That maybe lack of good customer service is turning people off? Though the same girl says the GM lot treats her amazingly, this is sadly not always the case.

Seems to be a dealer by dealer case by case basis, though some companies set higher standards for their dealers. There was a dealer/customer satisfaction survey from JD Power that was released like a year or so ago IIRC. I think GM scored pretty well.

I really dislike my Audi dealership. Crappy dealership with an excuse-making service advisor and a crappy loaner program (they try and get you to come back in 24 hours or less even if the problem isn't fixed because it costs them more:rolleyes: )

My GM dealership ( www.billheardcollierville.com ) was OK for a non-service oriented brand (by that I mean compared to Toyota, not compared to Lexus or Caddy)

My Lexus dealer has been hands down the best dealer experience I could ever have imagined possible, every time I've been there.

Of course you also pay for it (higher service costs if not under warranty, higher priced cars, etc)... but I guess I just don't mind that under the right circumstances.

Is that why my 1992 Sunbird is still running reliably, with paint that still has a showroom shine and is intact, and with an interior that that hasn't fallen apart yet with over 120K miles, because GM builds crap?

I had a 93 Sunbird new off the showrom floor that was the biggest POS I have ever owned, new or used.

Fact is that GM had some time where they slipped up on the quality (think early 90s to maybe 2000?) and lost a LOT of loyal customers to other brand marks.More like early '80's to late '90's..., cost cutting at its peak.

To quote my friend who cannot get Ford to honor her factory warranty:
"i'm ****in buying an import next time"


so what? I have a friend who had to go to lemon law over a Bentley.........what's your point? You'll find that if you go to NY Lemon Law, the largest number of lemon law repurchases are Japanese Branded cars and trucks.

just a crazy theory here, do you think people are not buying as many domestic cars because they are lasting so long.

I was having an argument with a friend today and he mentioned that he thinks the big 3 will go bankrupt and he will be happy because they all make gas guzzling cars that were unreliable.

This is what really makes me mad. "Only" the Big 3 make gas guzzling vehicles, right? Boy, Toyota sure has snowblinded the general public by selling a few thousand Priuses a year. For every 1 Prius they sell, they probably sell 5 or 6 Sequoias (and that's probably a conservative estimate), which average well below 20 mpg. :rolleyes:

The idea that Toyota is so much more "environmentally responsible" is a load of hot, steaming, feshly laid dog crap. I especially resented that warm and fuzzy "I'm saving the planet son" commercial they threw on during the Super Bowl. They are only doing what everyone else does, cover the entire market with all the different types of vehicles that people would want to buy, from "green" cars to "Exxon Valdezes". They're no better. :rolleyes:

This is what really makes me mad. "Only" the Big 3 make gas guzzling vehicles, right? Boy, Toyota sure has snowblinded the general public by selling a few thousand Priuses a year. For every 1 Prius they sell, they probably sell 5 or 6 Sequoias (and that's probably a conservative estimate), which average well below 20 mpg. :rolleyes:

The idea that Toyota is so much more "environmentally responsible" is a load of hot, steaming, feshly laid dog crap. I especially resented that warm and fuzzy "I'm saving the planet son" commercial they threw on during the Super Bowl. They are only doing what everyone else does, cover the entire market with all the different types of vehicles that people would want to buy, from "green" cars to "Exxon Valdezes". They're no better. :rolleyes:
Very nicely put! :bow: I wonder sometimes, will the sheep ever remove the blinders?

Gm marketing needs to attack public opinions like that, public perception is everything.

Very nicely put! :bow: I wonder sometimes, will the sheep ever remove the blinders?

The irony of you, Mr ":bow:", of all people, referring to someone as a 'sheep' is overwhelming.:p

The GM dealer closest to me is HUUUGE but they treat you like a number.

The GM dealer closest to me shuttled me back and forth to work in a stretch limo while they fixed a punctured tire.