Base Model - V6

I happen to be a 30 year old, married and with 2 kids, living in a single income family. Its very likely that if the concept gets the green light, I will only be able to afford the base model and that will be stretching it. But...I've always wanted a Camaro. I grew up always envious of my Uncle who owned every generation of Camaro. Now its my turn! So...

I was wondering what kind of specs you guys might think the base model would include. How much horsepower, what it might do 0-60, and the 1/4 mile times and how it would likely compare to the base models of the '06 Mustang and the Challenger concept.

I've heard some people say 250hp is likely for the V6. To me thats not very bad at all. Thats what? 40 more hp than the base V6 Mustang?

I could also see myself getting some mods on the V6 to try and push it up to an even 300hp. I'm not very smart when it comes to engine mods, but what suggestions would you guys make to someone in my position who wanted to squeeze a little more hp out of the V6 and is on a limited budget.

Thanks very much!

The Rustang is due to get the new Duratec 35 when it goes mainstream, which will be quite a stout motor for a v6, probably rated around 240-250 horses. With the high curb weight, I think the Camaro will be a mid-high 15 second car.

Dis,

you are going to need to wait until the actual engine is announced, then you will need to wait until the car is released with the engine. This will show what can and can't be done. For example, it may come with higher compression, or weak pistons, meaning Forced induction is not really an option. On the other hand it could come stock with forged rods and pistons and 9:0 to 1 compression and thrive at 15 lbs of boost.

here are a few in the GM portfolio......

2.8 DOHC in CTS................ = 210 hp
3.5 OHV in G6.................... = 201
3.5 SOHC in Vue................ = 250 - Honda engine, nevermind
3.6 DOHC in the LaCrosse...... = 240 - Edited
3.6 DOHC in SRX................ = 255
3.8 OHV in Gran Prix........... = 260
3.9 OHV in G6................... = 240

As you can see, they have a few choices. I would say the 3.5 SOHC or the 3.6 DOHC would be great in the Camaro especially if tuned to get a little more power. Then again, the V8 will be a pushrod motor, so the 260 hp 3.8 would really embarass the Mustang V6, the BMW 330, and many other entry level V6 cars as it is.

We'll have to wait and see.

The Rustang is due to get the new Duratec 35 when it goes mainstream, which will be quite a stout motor for a v6, probably rated around 240-250 horses. With the high curb weight, I think the Camaro will be a mid-high 15 second car.


good point, out of the box, the new ford 3.5L OHC engine is said to get 250hp and similar torque, while also getting better mileage than the 4.0 SOHC. Who knows when the stang will get it though.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... the V6 Camaro should ideally be about as quick as the Mustang GT, and the V8 Camaro quite a bit quicker than that (like the balance of power was back in the mid '90s).

Of course this isn't realistically going to happen, but a guy can dream.

Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing three engine options: economy, touring, and ultra high performance. The mid-range touring engine could be a small V8 or a large V6.

Chances of anything using the 3.8L S/C are pretty slim from what it seems. GM seems pretty into the idea of dropping it and using the 3.9/3.5. In the end, it's cheaper. I'm sure the 3.9L can be tuned for premium fuel and get a good bit more power if GM wanted.

The DOHC engines are likely to be a bit of a long shot as well considering the prices of them. If GM wants to keep the entry level camaro down in price. They would be smarter to use the 60* family of motors. Besides, every F-body for the last 20 years has had a 60* OHV motor... why not keep going?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... the V6 Camaro should ideally be about as quick as the Mustang GT, and the V8 Camaro quite a bit quicker than that (like the balance of power was back in the mid '90s).

Of course this isn't realistically going to happen, but a guy can dream.

Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing three engine options: economy, touring, and ultra high performance. The mid-range touring engine could be a small V8 or a large V6.

Insurance alone wouldn't let that happen. Then perhaps CAFE could have an impact due to the overall gas mileage of the vehicles would be lower by average. There are probably a thousand reasons. But I'd like to dream too.

From what we see in this forum most of the time. There is a good chance we'll have 3 engine options at some point. Just don't expect it to be in the first year of production. Perhaps the second a high end version will show up.

The Monaro CV6 (supercharged V6... around 250hp if I remember) did 0-60 in about 7 flat (with mandatory automatic tranny). My wild guess is a V6 250 horse Camaro with gearing to make up for the torque difference might be as much as half a second quicker with a stick if the car's at least 150-200 pounds lighter than the Monaro. Very likely since Monaros were loaded to the gills, while Camaros will have less content, and therefore lighter in weight.

Expect the HV V6 to be the base engine. The HF V6s are much more expensive to build and more difficult to package in a chassis meant for OHVs. Also expect them to run on regular fuel as this will be the choice for economy-minded drivers.

Performance is hard to say until more about the weight and engine specs are known. My guess would be low- to mid-15s in the quarter. As for modding it to make it go faster, it'll likely be cheaper (and more reliable) in the long run to buy the V8 in the first place.

I doubt the camaro is going to get a honda V6 ( VUE ).

My bet is a 3.9........ it only has 20hp less than the mustang GT had until 2005.

TONY

I doubt the camaro is going to get a honda V6 ( VUE ).

My bet is a 3.9........ it only has 20hp less than the mustang GT had until 2005.

TONY
We could also see DI and 3 valve heads by 2008.

I doubt the camaro is going to get a honda V6 ( VUE ).

My bet is a 3.9........ it only has 20hp less than the mustang GT had until 2005.

TONY

I thought that was the honda motor... isn't it in the Vibe too?

I didn't want to chime in on that one because I couldn't remember for sure.

It's also been said that certain versions of the 3.9L already have DoD built in, but just disabled. You figure that by '09 they would probably have it working. Add 3V heads, and you've got Ford beat easily for the base engine HP. If I had too, I'd take it. Good HP and good gas mileage would make it a nice one-two punch.

I thought that was the honda motor... isn't it in the Vibe too?

I didn't want to chime in on that one because I couldn't remember for sure.

It's also been said that certain versions of the 3.9L already have DoD built in, but just disabled. You figure that by '09 they would probably have it working. Add 3V heads, and you've got Ford beat easily for the base engine HP. If I had too, I'd take it. Good HP and good gas mileage would make it a nice one-two punch.
The Vue uses the Honda 3.5 V6. The Vibe is a rebadged Toyota Matrix with a 1.8L I4.

I thought that was the honda motor... isn't it in the Vibe too?

The Honda motor is the 3.5 V6 in the Saturn Vue.

The Vibe, essentially being a Toyota, has Toyota's 1.8 I4.

R377, I beat yah.

Damn, treed!

yeah yeah thats it. Thanks.

Too many motors sometimes.

The DOHC engines are likely to be a bit of a long shot as well considering the prices of them. If GM wants to keep the entry level camaro down in price. They would be smarter to use the 60* family of motors. Besides, every F-body for the last 20 years has had a 60* OHV motor... why not keep going?

The 3800 is a 90* V6.

Mid 15s? That is 4th gen territory, but they are more like low 15s if you got LSD and either the manual or the auto with 3.42s. The freak 00+ 3.42 autos could hit 14s on occasion.

The big questions are
1. How much weight?
2. What gearing (transmission choice and rear axle)?
3. LSD?

I think if weight is under control and the Camaro gets a six speed auto, I wouldn't be surprised if a base could hit high/mid 14s. But there are a couple big ifs in there.

Well, lets really take a look at what we have to deal with, and it comes down to 2 engines.

1 is the cheap 3.9 VVT V6 making 250
2 is the expesnive OHC 3.6 VVT, quickly approaching 300hp.
If #2 is the option, and makes 300hp, is there need for a mid level V8?

The 3800 is a 90* V6.

Whoops, yep your right. I overlooked that. Was thinking the 3.4L was in the 4th gen the whole time for some reason.

Dis,

you are going to need to wait until the actual engine is announced, then you will need to wait until the car is released with the engine. This will show what can and can't be done. For example, it may come with higher compression, or weak pistons, meaning Forced induction is not really an option. On the other hand it could come stock with forged rods and pistons and 9:0 to 1 compression and thrive at 15 lbs of boost.

here are a few in the GM portfolio......

2.8 DOHC in CTS................ = 210 hp
3.5 OHV in G6.................... = 201
3.5 SOHC in Vue................ = 250
3.6 OHV in the LaCrosse...... = 240
3.6 DOHC in SRX................ = 255
3.8 OHV in Gran Prix........... = 260
3.9 OHV in G6................... = 240

As you can see, they have a few choices. I would say the 3.5 SOHC or the 3.6 DOHC would be great in the Camaro especially if tuned to get a little more power. Then again, the V8 will be a pushrod motor, so the 260 hp 3.8 would really embarass the Mustang V6, the BMW 330, and many other entry level V6 cars as it is.

We'll have to wait and see.
no way is GM going to put the Honda motor from the VUE in the Camaro.

also there is no OHV 3.6L. the one in the LeCrosse is the HFV6 (same family as the 2.8/3.6 in the CTS/SRX).

Well, lets really take a look at what we have to deal with, and it comes down to 2 engines.

1 is the cheap 3.9 VVT V6 making 250
2 is the expesnive OHC 3.6 VVT, quickly approaching 300hp.
If #2 is the option, and makes 300hp, is there need for a mid level V8?

I can't see them putting a near 300hp motor in the base car. The car has to have good looks and adequate power, not be a land missle. The 3.9 would make a great base motor. It would have enough power to make the car fast enough to enjoy but not fast enough to scare away potential buyers who dont want a firebreathing v8.

here are a few in the GM portfolio......

2.8 DOHC in CTS................ = 210 hp
3.5 OHV in G6.................... = 201
3.5 SOHC in Vue................ = 250
3.6 OHV in the LaCrosse...... = 240
3.6 DOHC in SRX................ = 255
3.8 OHV in Gran Prix........... = 260
3.9 OHV in G6................... = 240
Actually, the Lacrosse has a 3800 at ~200 hp, OR the 240 hp option, which in the LaCrosse is a variant of the 3.6L DOHC ("high feature") V6, also used in the Cadillacs at 255 hp (as you listed). There is no 3.6L OHV V6.

In addition, the 3.5L SOHC in the Vue will NOT be going in the new Camaro. If it does, I'm switching to Ford. :p That is actually the Honda engine (the Vue uses the Honda 3.5L/ 5 speed automatic combo), which was part of a powertrain deal made with Honda. We bought some of their V6s (the previous Vue V6 was a tired, 3.0L with ~181 hp, an old Opel engine), in exchange for them buying some small diesel engines to be used in Europe, I believe. If the new Camaro were to show up with that engine under the hood, instead of a GM engine, I'd go insane.

:D

My current guess would be a version of the 3.9L (currently makes 240 hp in the Impala) or a version of the 3.6L.

:)

I happen to be a 30 year old, married and with 2 kids, living in a single income family. Its very likely that if the concept gets the green light, I will only be able to afford the base model and that will be stretching it. But...I've always wanted a Camaro. I grew up always envious of my Uncle who owned every generation of Camaro. Now its my turn! So...

I was wondering what kind of specs you guys might think the base model would include. How much horsepower, what it might do 0-60, and the 1/4 mile times and how it would likely compare to the base models of the '06 Mustang and the Challenger concept.

I've heard some people say 250hp is likely for the V6. To me thats not very bad at all. Thats what? 40 more hp than the base V6 Mustang?

I could also see myself getting some mods on the V6 to try and push it up to an even 300hp. I'm not very smart when it comes to engine mods, but what suggestions would you guys make to someone in my position who wanted to squeeze a little more hp out of the V6 and is on a limited budget.

Thanks very much!


Why not wait 2 yrs and buy a V8 car used? I'm in a similar situation (31, married, one income, 1 kid, prolly 2 by the time the car hits the showrooms), and if I can't afford a new V8 model when it comes out I will wait and go used. I have zero desire for a Camaro with a V6...I know we need to sell a lot of them for the car to succeed but its just not my thing, I would feel emasculated driving a V6 pony car.

The DOHC engines are likely to be a bit of a long shot as well considering the prices of them. If GM wants to keep the entry level camaro down in price. They would be smarter to use the 60* family of motors. Besides, every F-body for the last 20 years has had a 60* OHV motor... why not keep going?


ummm the 3800 motor in the 4th gen was a 90 degree v6 and that car actually performed pretty well i would expect the v6 they put in the 5th gen to perform even better

I would feel emasculated driving a V6 pony car.
Sounds like you may need a shrink as much as a V8. ;)

Sounds like you may need a shrink as much as a V8. ;)

Nope, I would only need the shrink if I got the V6 car. :D :p

I honestly can't see them offering a high performance V6, unless they integrate AFM into the next gen V6s. Could you imagine trying to sell a 250hp V6 that only gets 27 mpg highway, when they sell a 400hp V8 that gets 30 mpg with AFM?

I'd imagine whichever low output V6 comes in the Impala LS at the time Camaro is launched, its what we'll see in the base Camaro. (Assuming that a RWD Impala comes out before we see Camaro.) :rolleyes:

Actually, the Lacrosse has a 3800 at ~200 hp, OR the 240 hp option, which in the LaCrosse is a variant of the 3.6L DOHC ("high feature") V6, also used in the Cadillacs at 255 hp (as you listed). There is no 3.6L OHV V6.

In addition, the 3.5L SOHC in the Vue will NOT be going in the new Camaro. If it does, I'm switching to Ford. :p That is actually the Honda engine (the Vue uses the Honda 3.5L/ 5 speed automatic combo), which was part of a powertrain deal made with Honda. We bought some of their V6s (the previous Vue V6 was a tired, 3.0L with ~181 hp, an old Opel engine), in exchange for them buying some small diesel engines to be used in Europe, I believe. If the new Camaro were to show up with that engine under the hood, instead of a GM engine, I'd go insane.

:D

My current guess would be a version of the 3.9L (currently makes 240 hp in the Impala) or a version of the 3.6L.

:)


Well, I was looking up the info off Yahoo Autos, and got the info mixed up, you're right, the 3.8 is rated at 200, and the 3.6 is a DOHC listed at 240.

Didn't know about the Vue's engine. Very odd. I am sure that agreement will end after the Vue is replaced.

Anyway, I think the 3.9L would be sufficient with even ten more hp. But then again they may want to stay ahead of the curve (ford's 250 hp 3.5) and offer up something with 260 or so.

Also now that I think about it, Fords jump to 250 in the base will make the V6 only 50 hp less than the GT, so the GT will most likely be getting a jump too, maybe 340 - 350hp?
This will make the 400 hp V8 more realistic as the base V8 in the Camaro, but will probably still be murder on insurance rates.

My money is on the 3.9 OHV with the current 250 horsepower rating (or maybe 15-20 more from a bit higher compression ratio or something, depending on what the V6 mustang is pushing when this thing hits the streets). Like many have noted, OHV keeps the price down which is the reason for a V6 camaro in the 1st place. And delivers the same or more punch as a 3.6 DOHC in normal low RPM driving.

Keep in mind, the 3.9 v-6 makes 5 more horsepower than my l98 did. I could see it being tuned to somewhere in the 265 hp range. Even if it came with 240 Hp, it has more than the 4.0 of the 'Stang. I guess the question is, will it still have more than the 'Stang when it comes out?

Doesn't GM make an I6 for its numerous trailblazer platforms? I wonder how much of a pain it would be to rework that a bit and stick that in a base model camaro?...or even the I5 from the colorado... if they did, the base camaro could be more closely compared to BMW's hugely successful 3 series. I for one would be tempted to consider an I6 or I5 base camaro over a v8...

I suggested that like a year ago. The I6 has like 291hp!!

But i'm sure it would be too long to fit in there.

TONY

Doesn't GM make an I6 for its numerous trailblazer platforms? I wonder how much of a pain it would be to rework that a bit and stick that in a base model camaro?...or even the I5 from the colorado... if they did, the base camaro could be more closely compared to BMW's hugely successful 3 series. I for one would be tempted to consider an I6 or I5 base camaro over a v8...

Too tall, too long, too expensive.

the i6 would make an awesome engine in a car. I had that engine in my 05 Envoy XLT. THat thing was no slouch. It was not mustang GT fast, but it was not Mustang 4 cyl slow either.

I am sure there are numerous reasons it would not work in the Camaro, packaging is one, but it is not really a large engine. Not too much taller than a V8 with a tall intake manifold. So I woul dnot count it out until it is actually measured.

Emmisions is the big reason, The EPA restrictions on trucks are far lighter than those imposed on cars, so the thing may not meet requirements of a car, while easily meeting those of a truck.

Personally, I think it'd be a great engine in a car. It is smooth, has really good low end grunt and a lot of power all the way through.

A base engine though? No way, too powerful. It would scare off too many people.

okay, well, I admit this is less likely to be profitable since there are plenty of existing v6 options, but I argue that, if it did fit with the power dialed back it would be a sweet motor for a base model camaro, and without the power dialed back it would make a good intermediate model, such as the 305 in the third gens, ... though, admittedly, there are a plethora of LSx engines that could do a better job for less money. I just like the idea of a base model camaro that doesn't fade so completely in comparison to its z28 or SS counterparts

ummm the 3800 motor in the 4th gen was a 90 degree v6 and that car actually performed pretty well i would expect the v6 they put in the 5th gen to perform even better

Yes thanks, he already pointed out my oversight.

Make the V6 into like a Buick Grand National satus? It'll go a little over a 100 in a quarter miles?

witha 3500lbs plus curb weight and only a 4 speed auto the G6 GTP/Malibu Maxx SS runs low 15's. At minimum the 3.9L, hopefully a HF V6.

Once again, if Ford can put a great V6 in the Mustang (upcoming 3.5L Duratec), why can't Chevy?

I would assume that whatever engine, it will run on regular octane, so a hi-po 3.9 that requires high octane could be out. The 3.6 now making 255hp runs on regular gas, and there could be more power out of that and still have it get great gas milage.

Likely guess: 270-300hp OHV, (relatively) large displacement V6, most likely with DOD.

OHC = waste of weight, space and money, and the value of blowing the Nissan Z-turd into the weeds with a BASE Camaro cannot be underestimated... heh... come to think of it... that's just too damned funny for words, boys and girls.

3.6 making 265hp, mated to either 6spd auto or manual should be more then fine for base models.
Problem I see is that will GM offer a mid level V8 if the V6 is very powerful? Will there just be a jump from a 300hp V6 to a ~400hp V8? Could that still spell death?

The I6 would be silly, if you could even get it to fit.

I like the I6, but I think it's too big - lenght is the issue with that configuration. It's my opinion that the GM I5 is an underpowered dog of an engine, and I hope that thing gets phased out of the whole lineup.

Likely guess: 270-300hp OHV, (relatively) large displacement V6, most likely with DOD.


That would be great for a V6...but could that sell for under 25k? If so, count me in on that!

I would love to see the V6 with something very close to 300 hp. A base V8 around 350-375hp costing 25k and a high end 30-32k V8 producing 400-450 hp.

I've been reading a lot on the dodge forums and it sounds like if a challenger comes out with a v6 it will likely be priced at 24k w/ 250 hp and the high end could cost as much as 38k. That just seems like too much money to stay competitive with the mustang and camaro. Dodge should really re-evaluate their prices if they hope to survive the new muscle car wars.

Thoughts?

That would be great for a V6...but could that sell for under 25k? If so, count me in on that!

I would love to see the V6 with something very close to 300 hp. A base V8 around 350-375hp costing 25k and a high end 30-32k V8 producing 400-450 hp.

I've been reading a lot on the dodge forums and it sounds like if a challenger comes out with a v6 it will likely be priced at 24k w/ 250 hp and the high end could cost as much as 38k. That just seems like too much money to stay competitive with the mustang and camaro. Dodge should really re-evaluate their prices if they hope to survive the new muscle car wars.

Thoughts?

DCX can do anything they want, but the epic a$$-kicking they're in for is unavoidable.

Camaro vs. Challenger = Dodge roadkill.

That would be great for a V6...but could that sell for under 25k? If so, count me in on that!

I would love to see the V6 with something very close to 300 hp. A base V8 around 350-375hp costing 25k and a high end 30-32k V8 producing 400-450 hp.

I've been reading a lot on the dodge forums and it sounds like if a challenger comes out with a v6 it will likely be priced at 24k w/ 250 hp and the high end could cost as much as 38k. That just seems like too much money to stay competitive with the mustang and camaro. Dodge should really re-evaluate their prices if they hope to survive the new muscle car wars.

Thoughts?

A DCX employee (or ex-employee, not really sure of his current status) by the name of Bob sheaves seems to think that the Challenger will be offered in a top-of-the-line configuration only, priced about mid 30's. I am not really sure what I think they are going to do. If they ramp up Saint Louis as an LX/LY production facility, then they may make the Challenger a full line car (i.e. v-6, 5.7, 6.1 (or 6.4). BUT, if they try and fit it in at Brampton, then my guess is that the Challenger will indeed be a low volume, mid 30's v-8 only model. I would guess it really depends on how much production the other LX models are slotted to take up at Saint Louis, and whether or not the Imperial is given the go ahead.

A DCX employee (or ex-employee, not really sure of his current status) by the name of Bob sheaves seems to think that the Challenger will be offered in a top-of-the-line configuration only, priced about mid 30's. I am not really sure what I think they are going to do. If they ramp up Saint Louis as an LX/LY production facility, then they may make the Challenger a full line car (i.e. v-6, 5.7, 6.1 (or 6.4). BUT, if they try and fit it in at Brampton, then my guess is that the Challenger will indeed be a low volume, mid 30's v-8 only model. I would guess it really depends on how much production the other LX models are slotted to take up at Saint Louis, and whether or not the Imperial is given the go ahead.

Yeah, I wonder if DCX will actually do a second LX/LY plant. Sometimes I just get the feeling that they'd rather have Brampton run at full tilt, 3 shifts a day.

Anyway, I'd like Challenger to be a full car line.

One other point I forgot to mention. if you look at the Charger SE, it starts at $22, 995. I think it is very possible that they could get a Challenger SE, 250 HP V-6 to start at ~21k-22K. IF they decided to do a full line Challenger, THEN I BELIEVE it would be price competitive with both the Mustang and the Camaro.

One other point I forgot to mention. if you look at the Charger SE, it starts at $22, 995. I think it is very possible that they could get a Challenger SE, 250 HP V-6 to start at ~21k-22K. IF they decided to do a full line Challenger, THEN I BELIEVE it would be price competitive with both the Mustang and the Camaro.

Now wouldn't that be something? For the price of a nicely equipped Cobalt....you could have your choice of THREE, rwd, sporty coupes.

True, but for the same price , you can get a fully loaded SS cobalt that wil turn 14.4 in the quarter. Not bad for a 22k pocket rocket. I know somoe people are down on FWD, and for myself, I FAR prefer RWD. However, I think the Cobalt SS is a greeat value and an excellent stepping stone to higher powered and priced models for Chevrolet. Can you imagine if they decide to put the Solstice's GXP motor in this thing?

There is also a GM Direct injection 3.2L DOHC making 260HP over in Europe.

I expect the 3.9L OHV putting out ~250HP. GM wants to keep the price down on the V6 to compete with the Mustang.

Now wouldn't that be something? For the price of a nicely equipped Cobalt....you could have your choice of THREE, rwd, sporty coupes.

Dunno 'bout that....250HP + 4160 curb weight = not too sporty.

There is also a GM Direct injection 3.2L DOHC making 260HP over in Europe.

I expect the 3.9L OHV putting out ~250HP. GM wants to keep the price down on the V6 to compete with the Mustang.

really? I had heard of a possible 3.2L HF but never saw it materilaze. Guess I was looking on the worng continent.

The press has been unusally nice on reviews of the 3900 V6. I'd like to try one out.