Welburn: GM could move quickly on Camaro.

Welburn: GM could move quickly on Camaro

Greg Migliore
Automotive News / January 19, 2006 - 1:27 pm


DETROIT -- The Camaro concept unveiled by General Motors at the Detroit auto show clearly gets design chief Ed Welburn's blood pumping.

It didn't take much reading between the lines of his remarks at the Automotive News World Congress to get the message that he wants the remake of the classic muscle car to join the Chevy lineup as soon as possible.

GM stopped building the Camaro and its Pontiac Firebird sibling in 2002. The cars debuted as 1967 models.

"It was a vehicle I was very passionate about," said Welburn, GM's vice president of global design.

Welburn wouldn't say whether a decision had been made to put the concept into production. Once GM brass give a vehicle the green

light, Welburn noted, it typically takes three years for production to begin.

"But the Camaro isn't a typical car," he said. "I think we could move very quickly. It is a strong design."

Despite Welburn's coyness, it's an open secret that the Camaro is headed for production. The car is based on a rear-wheel-drive platform that will be engineered by GM's Australian Holden subsidiary.

GM sources say the production Camaro will be almost 100 percent true to the concept car. But the interior will be scaled back to allow lower prices for an entry-level V-6 version.

Welburn said he and GM Vice Chairman Robert Lutz wanted the Camaro to be reminiscent of its predecessor, but updated. This suggested a strong Corvette flavor for the project, he said.

The concept is powered by Corvette's aluminum LS2 6.0-liter, 400-hp V-8.

Welburn said he was happy to be able to talk about the Camaro, after frustrating months of enforced silence.

GM kept details of the concept shrouded in secrecy for eight months before its debut.

And inside the company, he said, "We never used the word 'Camaro' above a whisper."

Quoted again for emphasis....

...........Welburn wouldn't say whether a decision had been made to put the concept into production. Once GM brass give a vehicle the green light, Welburn noted, it typically takes three years for production to begin.

"But the Camaro isn't a typical car," he said. "I think we could move very quickly. It is a strong design."

GM sources say the production Camaro will be almost 100 percent true to the concept car. But the interior will be scaled back to allow lower prices for an entry-level V-6 version.

Very good news...I say make the car look like this: http://homepage.mac.com/bond2/camaro/GTOdarksmall.jpg

and get it into showrooms asap :yes:

Damn, that is a nice looking car.

Damn, that is a nice looking car.

Except it doesn't look anything like a GTO and happens to look more like a firebird.

Anyway, I don't think GM's "Real fast" is the same thing we think of when we hear "real fast."

There's no way they could get this car to market in 24 months if they kicked it off today, so I can't see how they'd ever get it here in less than three years.

I'd venture a guess that a lot of work has already been done on the platform at least and we might just be pleasantly surprised....just a hunch....

Except it doesn't look anything like a GTO and happens to look more like a firebird.

Anyway, I don't think GM's "Real fast" is the same thing we think of when we hear "real fast."

There's no way they could get this car to market in 24 months if they kicked it off today, so I can't see how they'd ever get it here in less than three years.

Heh, I didn't even notice the Pontiac badge or the GTO badge on it. I just thought it was yet another rendition of the 5th gen.

I've been told by a guy I trust, who was correct on the C6 and several other GM products, that a lot of work has already been done on the Camaro. The platform is supposed to be done. He told me early last year that the new Camaro could tool by the end of 2006, maybe a little earlier.

Except it doesn't look anything like a GTO and happens to look more like a firebird.

I should have stated that they should remove the GTO badges and replace them with Camaro ones ;) Anyway, this chop reminds me quite abit of a 3rd gen, which to me is a good thing. I think these changes make it look sleeker, meaner and more modern. That front end looks sooo much better than the original. I mean really, it took me from thinking the car looked ok to really, really liking it :yes: :thumb: If the production version came out with a front that looked like that I'd be left with very little to complain about :lol:

450000 Al uminum V6 blocks (http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=423963)

But the interior will be scaled back to allow lower prices for an entry-level V-6 version.I thought the interior would be scaled back because it is idiotic?

I thought the interior would be scaled back because it is idiotic?
Agreed...that interior looks ridiculous

I think they're referring to the use of alot of brushed aluminum or whatever metal panels all over the place in the interior, expensive stitching on the seats/perhaps the seats themselves, etc. Honestly the only area of the interior I find "idiotic" are the gauges that look about impossible to read and use, colored and styled in such a way that they throw off the whole look of the interior... I don't know what they were thinking with those things.

Somebody should photoshop in some standard looking gauges and lose the orange or whatever colored panels, I think the interior would have looked alright like that... I will miss the wrap-around cockpit style feel to the interior the 4thgens have though...

Except it doesn't look anything like a GTO and happens to look more like a firebird.

Is it better as a Trans Am??

http://homepage.mac.com/bond2/camaro/TADarkSmall.jpg

So, what's up with this statement?? 8 months? Haven't they been working on it longer than that?

GM kept details of the concept shrouded in secrecy for eight months before its debut.

So, what's up with this statement?? 8 months? Haven't they been working on it longer than that?
I heard it has only been worked on for 9 months to build the concept. Maybe a mis-quote?

I heard it has only been worked on for 9 months to build the concept. Maybe a mis-quote?
Maybe that means design work, not necessarily platform work.

From what I've been reading on this board as well as others is that the exterior was designed to be close to production ready. We know the powertrain components are all there and I believe the frame based on Holdens new Commodore is close to being ready? Like Welburn stated its the interior that needs an Overhaul!

I kinda like the interior... its almost a direct replica of the 1st Gen interior.

From what I've been reading on this board as well as others is that the exterior was designed to be close to production ready. We know the powertrain components are all there and I believe the frame based on Holdens new Commodore is close to being ready? Like Welburn stated its the interior that needs an Overhaul!


Holden's Zeta is ALOT more than "close" to production ready. The thing's going to be on the assembly line in about 7 months!

As for the Camaro, it's on. ;)

Holden is doing some final stuff to the car, and has been for a little while.

Since Camaro doesn't have to wait for another assembly line's model to run it's production course, all is needed is to rip up idle assembly line and put in the new.

Most of the structure is based on Holden's done VE chassis, so parts are going to be available PDQ.

This is the stuff what Welburn was alluding to, without going into details (something no one at GM is allowed to do yet).

Camaro's coming quicker than we think. ;)

Holden's Zeta is ALOT more than "close" to production ready. The thing's going to be on the assembly line in about 7 months!

As for the Camaro, it's on. ;)

Holden is doing some final stuff to the car, and has been for a little while.

Since Camaro doesn't have to wait for another assembly line's model to run it's production course, all is needed is to rip up idle assembly line and put in the new.

Most of the structure is based on Holden's done VE chassis, so parts are going to be available PDQ.

This is the stuff what Welburn was alluding to, without going into details (something no one at GM is allowed to do yet).

Camaro's coming quicker than we think. ;)


Are you saying the Camaro is going to be built in Aussie land, or the VE line put in production here in the states? Hmmm. An Aussie built Camaro, I wonder how that would go over with diehard Camaro fans? :D

Are you saying the Camaro is going to be built in Aussie land, or the VE line put in production here in the states? Hmmm. An Aussie built Camaro, I wonder how that would go over with diehard Camaro fans? :D

it's going to be built in Deleware is what I've heard

Are you saying the Camaro is going to be built in Aussie land, or the VE line put in production here in the states? Hmmm. An Aussie built Camaro, I wonder how that would go over with diehard Camaro fans? :D

Substantial engineering work is being done in Australia as we speak. It will come back here for final packaging and tweaking and will be built here. I'm wondering if Holden's coupe will be built here as well.

Substantial engineering work is being done in Australia as we speak. It will come back here for final packaging and tweaking and will be built here. I'm wondering if Holden's coupe will be built here as well.


I doubt it, why send a chasis from Australia to the US, build the car in the US then ship it back to Australia

Unless I'm misreading something.

it's going to be built in Deleware is what I've heard

That is Delaware. Much like Camaro. :D

I doubt it, why send a chasis from Australia to the US, build the car in the US then ship it back to Australia

Unless I'm misreading something.

Why?

Because the "Monaro replacement" will be a Camaro sister car. If you think shipping 2,000-3,000 "Monaro replacements" from NA to Australia is a pain....imagine shipping 150,000 Camaro's from Australia to NA.

Besides, Holden production is tied up with the VE....they don't have the capacity to build it there, even if they wanted to.

Ok, giounM made is sound like Holden was building it the he worded his post.

I doubt it, why send a chasis from Australia to the US, build the car in the US then ship it back to Australia

Unless I'm misreading something.

Chassis engineering done down under ...not the physical chassis for the Monaro.

That is Delaware. Much like Camaro. :D

yea yea yea, you know what I mean. I only drove through there about 5000 times in my college career between MD and NJ

Holden's Zeta is ALOT more than "close" to production ready. The thing's going to be on the assembly line in about 7 months!

As for the Camaro, it's on. ;)

Holden is doing some final stuff to the car, and has been for a little while.

Since Camaro doesn't have to wait for another assembly line's model to run it's production course, all is needed is to rip up idle assembly line and put in the new.

Most of the structure is based on Holden's done VE chassis, so parts are going to be available PDQ.

This is the stuff what Welburn was alluding to, without going into details (something no one at GM is allowed to do yet).

Camaro's coming quicker than we think. ;)
:eek: YES!!!!! That 6 months went by awefully quick!

So anyone else want to drive to Delaware with hacksaws, chainsaws, and plasma cutters in hand and start taking down that L-series line?

I think with enough enthusiests there we could do it in about 2 days.:D

So when are we going to get some hardcore specs? After it receives the official go ahead?

Ok, giounM made is sound like Holden was building it the he worded his post.

Nope. Holden is doing the engineering work involving taking design and making it work with Zeta (after all, they are doing all GM's worldwide "volume" RWD engineering).

Camaro will be made here. Good chance Monaro's replacement will as well.

Sorry if it came out wrong.

So when are we going to get some hardcore specs? After it receives the official go ahead?

Concept specs are part of the press pack we got at unveiling.

I don't have it on me at the moment, but memory has it at 79" wide, 53" tall, and about 186" long. Visually, the rear seat legroom is about GTO level, the fronts seem to match the 4th gen with more headroom all around.

There were plenty of people there from this site, so if someone has the actual numbers handy..... :)

Concept specs are part of the press pack we got at unveiling.

I don't have it on me at the moment, but memory has it at 79" wide, 53" tall, and about 186" long. Visually, the rear seat legroom is about GTO level, the fronts seem to match the 4th gen with more headroom all around.

There were plenty of people there from this site, so if someone has the actual numbers handy..... :)

What production car would you compare the width of the interior to?

What production car would you compare the width of the interior to?

4th gen.

Definately wider than the GTO.

Beautiful! I loved my 4th gen, but headroom was slightly lacking, and more is better in my opinion (6'8") :)

Concept specs are part of the press pack we got at unveiling.

I don't have it on me at the moment, but memory has it at 79" wide, 53" tall, and about 186" long. Visually, the rear seat legroom is about GTO level, the fronts seem to match the 4th gen with more headroom all around.

There were plenty of people there from this site, so if someone has the actual numbers handy..... :)

Concept Car specs:
Wheelbase: 110.5"
Length: 186.2"
Width: 79.6"
Height: 53.0"

Have any of you sat in the back of the current GTO? Headroom was really bad, at least for me being 6' 1". My T/A has alot better headroom in the back, may be due to the low bucket seats? Hopefully the new Camaro's back seat will be somewhat accessible and have ample headroom. At least up to 4th Gen standards, but I'm hopin for better. Fold down seats have come in handy many times as well.

Have any of you sat in the back of the current GTO? Headroom was really bad, at least for me being 6' 1". My T/A has alot better headroom in the back, may be due to the low bucket seats? Hopefully the new Camaro's back seat will be somewhat accessible and have ample headroom. At least up to 4th Gen standards, but I'm hopin for better. Fold down seats have come in handy many times as well.


Huh? I own an 04 GTO. Headroom is very good in the back even for my Dad who is 6' 3" His head was nowhere near the top of the headliner. The back seats are mounted in a leaning position. Also plenty of legroom too. Frankly I'm calling BS on your comment.

I have a feeling that GM will move the Camaro to production like they did with the Solstice/SSR. They did quite a bit of pre engineering prior to the concept and when the reviews were good and production was approved, GM moved quickly. They also kept the production model close to the concepts design. I only see a few things GM would change prior to production.

1) Smaller wheels. 18" or 19" (Too close to Vette...)
2) Taller greenhouse, more space from the top of door to headline.
3) Narrow the vehicle down a bit. Almost 80 inches wide is near a Full Size truck and getting close to being too wide to park in some 1 car garages. Not to mention the tight parking in So Cal.

Other than that keep the weight south of 3800 and we have a winner! I hope GM sees it this way.

"Welburn said he was happy to be able to talk about the Camaro, after frustrating months of enforced silence. "

...someone tell him he isnt alone!

all i can say to this news is...

sweet!!!

I have a feeling that GM will move the Camaro to production like they did with the Solstice/SSR. They did quite a bit of pre engineering prior to the concept and when the reviews were good and production was approved, GM moved quickly.


:confused: please tell me you're kidding????????

Huh? I own an 04 GTO. Headroom is very good in the back even for my Dad who is 6' 3" His head was nowhere near the top of the headliner. The back seats are mounted in a leaning position. Also plenty of legroom too. Frankly I'm calling BS on your comment.

No ****. I've had a few tall people in the backseat of my GTO, including a 6 hour each way road trip. The backseat was so comfortable that when the guy in shotgun offered to switch when we stopped for foord / bathroom, the guys in the backseat (one about 6'1") declined the offer because they were cozy back there.

I'll take your frankly one step further. Comparing rear seat accomodations for ANY sized adult between an fbody and GTO is ludicrous. A 6'+ tall person riding in the backseat of a 3rd/ 4th gen fbody would have to be a double leg amputee to fit comfortably regardless of headroom. I'm only 5'6" and YOU COULDN'T PAY ME to sit in the backseat of an fbody for more than a 5 minute drive, my knees completely lock up in no time flat.

Just to make sure i wasn't crazy i checked some specs

http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/chevrolet/camaro/100002303/specs.html

Front Head Room: 38 in. Front Hip Room: 53.5 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 57.4 in. Rear Head Room: 38 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: 43.5 in. Rear Hip Room: 43.7 in.
Front Leg Room: 43 in. Rear Leg Room: 26.8 in.


http://www.edmunds.com/used/2004/pontiac/gto/100369148/specs.html

Front Head Room: 37.3 in. Front Hip Room: 58 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 59.7 in. Rear Head Room: 37.3 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: 51.7 in. Rear Hip Room: 50.2 in.
Front Leg Room: 42.2 in. Rear Leg Room: 37.1 in.


OK, so the GTO does give up 0.7" of rear headoom to the camaro. OTOH, the camaro gives up 10.3" of rear leg room to GTO. It also gives up 6.5" of rear hip room.

Even assuming a 6'1" person's head does touch the roof in the GTO, does 0.7" of clearance really help that much considering said person can't move at all because of the total lack of leg and hip room. Different strokes for different folks, but again, i'm 5'6" and *I* cannot fit comfrotably in the backseat of an fbody because of the lack of leg room. I've seen 6'+ people in my backseat and never heard a word, plenty of room,nice big windows to look out, and rear seat HVAC too.

I have had the joy of sitting in the back of a friends 01 SS, and there is NO room!! Same goes for my ex's 93 TA!! buckets are very low, and you feel like you are in a box.
I havent sat in the back of the GTO yet, but it looks pretty big.

I have had the joy of sitting in the back of a friends 01 SS, and there is NO room!! Same goes for my ex's 93 TA!! buckets are very low, and you feel like you are in a box.
I havent sat in the back of the GTO yet, but it looks pretty big.

You now know why Ive been fighting so hard for so long, getting people to ask for more room and trunk space if thats what they want in 5th Gen. Build the car as relativly practical again and people will consider it more than just a toy. The concept trunk looks big and interior looks bigger. In my opinion it will really bump the car up peoples considered cars again. Certainly has mine. Looks good too.

Welcome to the darkside :death:

Another GTO myth debunked... :yes:

Welburn said he was happy to be able to talk about the Camaro, after frustrating months of enforced silence.

GM kept details of the concept shrouded in secrecy for eight months before its debut.

And inside the company, he said, "We never used the word 'Camaro' above a whisper."

If he ever read this site over the past year, he was probably pulling his hair out (kinda like someone else we know ;) ) wanting to say something about the upcoming concept. Seems like there were alot of Camaro fans inside of GM really pushing this car.

I have to give a big applause to the TransAM "Concept" in this thread!!!! Yes GM should move to bring out the Camaro as soon as they can. I used to go to the Pontiac Dealer and they would say "All we sell is trucks these days". I wonder why with all the cars they discontinued. People bought Grand Ams and Camaros and there is no reason that GM can't make money on them. Bring out some stylish cars for a DECENT price, like the Mustang, and people will buy them!!

Huh? I own an 04 GTO. Headroom is very good in the back even for my Dad who is 6' 3" His head was nowhere near the top of the headliner. The back seats are mounted in a leaning position. Also plenty of legroom too. Frankly I'm calling BS on your comment.

I have test driven GTO's 2 times. First off it takes forever to move the front seat foward to even get to the back, then to try and squeeze your way back there is pretty hard too. The doors are just too short. The 4th gens long doors are freakin huge, but at least they made it easier to get in the back. The back seats in the GTO were really comfortable and leg room was excellent, but my head was bumping the ceiling. Why would I lie about that? Plus the inability to put the back seats down makes it hard to put large and heavy things in the back. And I have gotten some pretty large things in the back of my T/A. Now I am not saying that my T/A is a nice ride in the backseat, its not. Rarly does anyone ever ride back there. Leg room is bad. So I am hoping that Chevy can fix the 4th gens shortcomings and GTO shortcomings and make the rear seat somewhat more useable in the new Camaro. I have also heard on other boards that the new 08 GTO will have a small suicide style door like on that Saturn Coupe, who knows if thats true or not, but interesting idea. Sorry if I got you GTO guys heated up, I really like the new GTOs and even considered buying one, its a very nice ride!!

<rant mode on>
bond, you are COMPLETELY unrealistic in your demands. OBSERVE:

New mustang http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/ford/mustang/100613487/specs.html
rear headroom=34.7 legroom=30.3

Infiniti G35 (2 door) http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/infiniti/g35/100632260/specs.html
rear headroom=34.7 legroom=31.4

BMW 330 (2 door) http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/bmw/3series/100652317/specs.html
rear headroom = 36.2" Legroom = 33.2

Chevy Monte Carlo SS http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/chevrolet/montecarlo/100624490/specs.html
rear headromm=36.5 legroom=35.8

Pontiac G6 (2 door) http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/pontiac/g6/100543338/specs.html
rear headromm=36.3 legroom=35.8

I can't really think of anymore 2 door 4-seat cars on the market, but as it is GTO has the biggest backseat on the market aomonth the common choices, including FWD cars that don't even have as much stuff under it out back.


Now some 4 doors:

Dodge Charger: http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/dodge/charger/100518597/specs.html
rear headroom=36.2 legroom=40.2

Infiniti G35 (4 door) http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/infiniti/g35/100632263/specs.html
rear headroom=37.9 legroom=33.6

BMW 330 (4 door) http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/bmw/3series/100530524/specs.html
rear headroom = 37.1" Legroom = 34.6

BMW 530 (4 door SEDAN) http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/bmw/5series/100528416/specs.html
rear headroom = 37" Legroom = 36

Pontiac G6 (4 door) http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/pontiac/g6/100533507/specs.html
rear headoom=36.5 legroom=37.6


WOW, imagine that. Even 4 door sporty cars BARELY have more legroom than a GTO. Only 1 beats the headroom. WTF?


Basically, you sound like an idiot whining about an extra 0.7" of headroom in the backseat of a 4th gen considering it has NO LEGROOM whatsoever. You could slide down in the GTO seat a bit and still have room to stretch out if you were bumping your head that bad. As it is though, the ONLY cars on the market today that would fit you are apparently 4 door FAMILY cars or SUVs, because as you can see, even modern sport sedans can't beat the GTO for headroom. FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, the GIGANTIC BOAT called a charger gives up an inch of rear headroom to GTO.

The ONLY reason the 2/3/4 gens had decent rear headroom was because you sat on a thin piece of foam on the floor. EVEN IF you ignore the total lack of legroom, even a short guy like me eats his knees back there because there is no ass-floor distance. As you can see, nothing sporty has a lot of rear headroom because it would require the roofline to be taller and significantly more upright. No one would be stupid enough to make a car with a retarded set-up like fbody again, no one likes to eat their knees even if there is legroom.



Past that, yes it takes a FEW seconds to move the GTO seats to let people in. I can see why it woudl seem inconvenient if you only tried it once or twice. As an owner, i can assure you that by the time i get in and start the car and wait for the system check on the DIC to clear, all my passengers can get in including cycling the seat forward and backwards (yes i make them climb through from the pass side, which is easy to do since there is so much room). This is only an issue because GTO is one of the few cars anywhere near it's price range that has dual power front seats, if it had a manual seat it'd be no sweat to slide it on a rail, but then you're sacrificing amenities in the name of impatience.

As for PREFERING the long doors of 2/3/4 fbodies, i am pretty sure you are in a tiny minority there. The big heavy doors were a big complaint of people about those cars, and again, you will NEVER see that on a car again because it was so hated.

sorry, but, if you don't like the styling, that's fine, everybody can have an opinion.
One of the better things about GTO compared to the rest of the market is the big back seat, if you need more room, go buy an SUV
<rant mode off>

sorry, but, if you don't like the styling, that's fine, everybody can have an opinion. but i am sick of people MAKING UP STUPID **** about the GTO to justify not liking it. One of the best things about GTO is the big back seat, if you need more room, go buy an SUV
<rant mode off>

First off, you have no right to call me an idiot. I am pretty sure I said that I liked the GTO, and that I almost bought one, only reason I did not is b/c I am gonna wait for the new Camaro or possibly 08 GTO. I also stated issues with both the 4th gens back seats and the GTO. If you feel the need to rant and defend your purchase of an 04 GTO I am the wrong guy to waste your time on. Just enjoy your car, you don't need to defend it to anyone.

This thread is about the new Camaro, and I am just making suggestions to what I would like to see when its in production form. More useable back seats and while I am at it a larger trunk. Please don't go on a rant about the GTOs trunk, the 4th gen trunk is pretty lame too.

Are you saying the Camaro is going to be built in Aussie land, or the VE line put in production here in the states? Hmmm. An Aussie built Camaro, I wonder how that would go over with diehard Camaro fans? :D

I wouldn't care if it were a Honda Camaro! I want a new Camaro DAMN IT!:mad:

First off, you have no right to call me an idiot. I am pretty sure I said that I liked the GTO, and that I almost bought one, only reason I did not is b/c I am gonna wait for the new Camaro or possibly 08 GTO. I also stated issues with both the 4th gens back seats and the GTO. If you feel the need to rant and defend your purchase of an 04 GTO I am the wrong guy to waste your time on. Just enjoy your car, you don't need to defend it to anyone.

This thread is about the new Camaro, and I am just making suggestions to what I would like to see when its in production form. More useable back seats and while I am at it a larger trunk. Please don't go on a rant about the GTOs trunk, the 4th gen trunk is pretty lame too.

I said you *sound* like an idiot, which i'm sorry, but there's no other way to describe a comparison between GTO and 4th gen back seat room. Asking for a bigger backseat than GTO is not realistic, NOTHING with a sporty roofline in today's market can beat it, and if the 5th gen has 2/3/4 gen style "sit on the floor and eat your knees" seating, it will turn people off.

Ragging on the GTO trunk is factual though. Damn shame about the gas tank. It's still not as bad as some people would make it out to be though, it's pretty tall inside so it fits more than it looks like it does. I would rather have a GTO trunk than a 3rd/4th hatch ANY day, i ahted having **** flying all over my interior because of the high shelf, even if i am giving up a little bit of absolute space.

Asking for a bigger backseat than GTO is not realistic, NOTHING with a sporty roofline in today's market can beat it

I gotta admit, this looks far better than the GTO and 4th Gen, seems like its gonna have alot more room and be easy enough to get back there. What do you think:

http://homepage.mac.com/bond2/camaro/CamaroInterior.jpg

I gotta admit, this looks far better than the GTO and 4th Gen, seems like its gonna have alot more room and be easy enough to get back there. What do you think:

http://homepage.mac.com/bond2/camaro/CamaroInterior.jpg

Except for the IP, dash and console gauges, I love the interior.

Has anyone noticed how the seatbelts achor to the seats?

Honestly, looks like a little less legroom than the GTO, about new mustang sized or so. Those backseats do look way reclined so it might help you in headroom while maintaining a decent roofline and still being a real seat rather than foam on the floor, so it could be a good overall compromise.

I'm with 4ever on hating the guages, but it'd be easy to fix that, maybe with a viper-esque row running out from the main IP extending the hood to cover them or something, though guages way out to the right was always a more firebird interior cue, with camaros usually more centrally located.

i do LOVE the seatbelt locations though. It's a true and historical fact that i almost never wore seatbelts until i bought my 92 Z28 convertible. I'm short, and i hate having a seatbelt coming across my neck as mounting them in the roof did. My 92 convertible had the seatbelt come out low from the side so it came over my shoulder comfortably, and thus i didn't mind it at all. GTO's seatbelt is at least adjustable, but i still wish it was a little lower

Yeah, I love how the seatbelts attach, really makes the interior smooth.

At 6' 200lb I sat in the back of my 4th gen and had NO leg room. It was terrible. OTOH I sat in a GTO and the rear seats were much more comfortable and much more legroom.

BUT I was closer to the roofline, and here's why (that nobody has seemed to mention!) Because of the angle of how you sit, if you lean all the way into the seat, your head is farther toward the rear of the car. If you lean forward a little, you suddenly have a lot more headroom. Make sense? I'd take the GTO back seats any day of the week for sure.

On the folding issue, the GTO was built by the Aussie's who stuck the fuel tank behind the rear seats, so there was no hope of folding. The Camaro Concept looks to have good room and comfy seats, and looks like it might be able to fold down as well. Best of both worlds I think.

IMHO folding seats are critical to the car, because it adds more utility to it, which in all honesty we will need every edge or advantage we can get. I've put 8ft long 2x4's in my 95 Drop Top, and I would be hard pressed to buy any car where I couldnt do that, cause you never know when you need to go get a couple 2x4's...

Except for the IP, dash and console gauges, I love the interior.

Has anyone noticed how the seatbelts achor to the seats?

Thats cool I didnt notice that before.

I dont like the 80s buckles. They have the false release on the strap for 80s look but where you snap them into the seat is the real relase which looks much better to me. Kinda remind me of my fathers 88 Siera Classic Jimmy.

On the folding issue, the GTO was built by the Aussie's who stuck the fuel tank behind the rear seats, so there was no hope of folding. The Camaro Concept looks to have good room and comfy seats, and looks like it might be able to fold down as well. Best of both worlds I think.

IMHO folding seats are critical to the car, because it adds more utility to it, which in all honesty we will need every edge or advantage we can get. I've put 8ft long 2x4's in my 95 Drop Top, and I would be hard pressed to buy any car where I couldnt do that, cause you never know when you need to go get a couple 2x4's...


Just to clarify, the aussies didn't design it that way on purpose. The story of the GTO's gas tank and exhaust routing is an interesting example of lack of communication and good process in GM.

The original monaro had the gas tank under the trunk, just like most US cars since the dawn of time. The trunk was cavernous, i'm not sure if the seats folded down though in it, never looked into it that far.

With the gas tank located under the right side of the trunk, there was no room for exhaust, and thus why they had it coming out the left side. The GTO was slated to have the same set-up, and thus true duals snaked out one side.

At the 11th hour, they realized that the gas tank under the trunk didn't pass US regulation regarding fuel tanks in crumple zones so they did the only thing they could, stuck it in the trunk. Too late to change the exhaust (and likely rear fascia) for 04, they kept the out the left arrangement even though the right side has nothing to preclude the 05+ set-up.

I'm no insider, but that is the order of events i pieced together. As an engineer that has lead projects in a borderless environment with work being done at multiple locations, that story makes sense as a classic case of requirements not being properly communicated or understood. btw, the aussie's are/were pissed about giving up their giant trunk in 05 as they all moved to the GTO style duals and gas tank in the trunk. I would be/am too given the choice....

Camaro's coming quicker than we think. ;)

This just made my day :D

I gotta admit, this looks far better than the GTO and 4th Gen, seems like its gonna have alot more room and be easy enough to get back there. What do you think:

http://homepage.mac.com/bond2/camaro/CamaroInterior.jpg

Yeah it ought to since it's a million dollar concept. Lets see what it looks like when it resides in a 20K V6 or 28K V8 model. :rolleyes:

Just to clarify, the aussies didn't design it that way on purpose. The story of the GTO's gas tank and exhaust routing is an interesting example of lack of communication and good process in GM.

The original monaro had the gas tank under the trunk, just like most US cars since the dawn of time. The trunk was cavernous, i'm not sure if the seats folded down though in it, never looked into it that far.

With the gas tank located under the right side of the trunk, there was no room for exhaust, and thus why they had it coming out the left side. The GTO was slated to have the same set-up, and thus true duals snaked out one side.

At the 11th hour, they realized that the gas tank under the trunk didn't pass US regulation regarding fuel tanks in crumple zones so they did the only thing they could, stuck it in the trunk. Too late to change the exhaust (and likely rear fascia) for 04, they kept the out the left arrangement even though the right side has nothing to preclude the 05+ set-up.

I'm no insider, but that is the order of events i pieced together. As an engineer that has lead projects in a borderless environment with work being done at multiple locations, that story makes sense as a classic case of requirements not being properly communicated or understood. btw, the aussie's are/were pissed about giving up their giant trunk in 05 as they all moved to the GTO style duals and gas tank in the trunk. I would be/am too given the choice....

Close, but not quite.

GM-NA gave GM-Holden a very small budget with the orders simply to get Monaro certified for the US, get a Pontiac nose on it, and get it to the US ASAP. They had the full list of regulations coming up, so there were no surprises, and there was no lack of communication with GM-NA at all. Holden was given full autonomy on this car.

The fuel tank (originally off centered behind the axle like pre-85 Fox Mustangs) was moved between the rear wheels in the trunk because that's the only place it could go outside of it's stock location (long wheelbase Holden's have the tank under the rear seat). You're right that it wouldn't pass future standards. Though the new fuel tank standards didn't kick in till this year (and GTO could have been sold with the tank in it's original location), car companies tend to get sued for not fixing a safety item they have the ability to fix (ie: Ford & their Crown Victoria), so the tank was moved.

The exhaust routing on the '04 GTO is stock Monaro, though the tuning is new for the GTO.

The exhaust, rear bumper, and hood were changed for 2005 because these took more time to do and the priority was simply to get the cars here quickly.

Yeah it ought to since it's a million dollar concept. Lets see what it looks like when it resides in a 20K V6 or 28K V8 model. :rolleyes:

That's my big worry. I know to sell the base model at 20K, there's going to be pressure to get alot of cost out.

BTW: The headrests don't pass new federal standards, so expect more tilt. The brightwork has already been hit on, I wouldn't expect those seats on the base model if it makes it somewhat unchanged at all and those trick GM buckles are probally a non starter. I'd expect the Corvette steering wheel (which also shows up in Solstice), standard issue GM stereo and HVAC in the center of the dash instead of the stylized controls, vent ducts moved to the upper center of the dash, and probally a less stylized back seat (again, at least on models that aren't at the top).