Jack Bauer drives a Tundra

So I'm watching the new season of 24 and when Jack is walking back to his truck at the oil rigs and I see it's a Tundra. He'll give his life for his country but he won't buy domestic. lol.

I noticed that too. :death:

That's what I said when I saw that. :D

The Tundra is a good truck.

I am sure Jack Bauer doesn't care what kind of truck it is. He probably has bigger things on his mind.

Toyota bought Day 5 essentially. I could tell when I watched the teaser thing off the DVD. That is why Chloe has a Prius, Jack was in a Camry in the teaser and now a Tundra. I liked the CTU Explorers with all the goodies in the back.

First, it was GM vehicles. Then Ford. Now it's Toyota time.

Having said that, what is this doing outside the lounge? ;)

The all new Tundra that's coming out in a few months will be built in the all new San Antonio plant with its motors coming out of the all new Alabama motor plant and the majority of its parts domestically sourced.

That's more American than many of the 'domestic' trucks these days.;)

The all new Tundra that's coming out in a few months will be built in the all new San Antonio plant with its motors coming out of the all new Alabama motor plant and the majority of its parts domestically sourced.

That's more American than many of the 'domestic' trucks these days.;)


With the profits heading back to Japan... :alert:

Even if the Toyota were 100% sourced 'locally' it will never be American (for the reason stated above).

The all new Tundra that's coming out in a few months will be built in the all new San Antonio plant with its motors coming out of the all new Alabama motor plant and the majority of its parts domestically sourced.

That's more American than many of the 'domestic' trucks these days.;)

Next thing y'know he'll be driving a chinese made SUV. lol they tried to send him to prison last season.

The all new Tundra that's coming out in a few months will be built in the all new San Antonio plant with its motors coming out of the all new Alabama motor plant and the majority of its parts domestically sourced.

That's more American than many of the 'domestic' trucks these days.;)

Do you actually have a % content of domestic vs. foreign for the new Tundra and the domestic trucks you're referring to?

Chris

With the profits heading back to Japan... :alert:

Even if the Toyota were 100% sourced 'locally' it will never be American (for the reason stated above).

That's kinda why I wish our other 'big two' would merge with big companies on other continents (maybe the Koreans and the Japanese). That way it's kinda like diversifying your portfolio. Chrysler becoming DC was one of the best things that could have happened for them and for the newly forming global economy as well, IMO.

Do you actually have a % content of domestic vs. foreign for the new Tundra and the domestic trucks you're referring to?

Chris

That stuff is hard to dig up but pay attention to window stickers next time you're out, you may be surprised. I know the Ram, for example, is made in Mexico and on average only 70% of its parts are domestically sourced (which also includes Canada so not sure what % is actually US). Furthermore they're half-owned by a German company now.

Yet I'm sure bubba down the block would give ya a high-5 for buying one as compared to the evil eye if he saw you pull up in a Tundra. I know the current Tundra is built in Indiana, though I can't seem to find its parts content. Let me know if you can find it. It may not still be on par with, say, the Ram, but I'd bet ya with the 2007 model it's going to be damn near 100% with the Indiana, San Antonio, and Alabama plants running full time making parts.

Did you know that 85% of Honda Accords made in the last 5 years have had a 97% domestic part content or greater, and almost all Accords have been built in Marysville, Ohio for the last 20+ years?

Again, where does the profit go? Does it go back into the American economy? Sure, some of it does -- but the majority goes overseas.

BTW, you can see some of GM's Silverado & Ford's F150 models appear to have 90% American content, as per: http://www.usstuff.com/cars2005.htm. Appears to decrease slightly dependant upon model/trim/engine, etc.

Again, where does the profit go? Does it go back into the American economy? Sure, some of it does -- but the majority goes overseas.

OK so, just for example, if you have a car, say a "domestic" car that has a 30,000 dollar price tag, but it is only 60% domestic part content and is built in Mexico. Then 40% of the parts in that car, which let's say the parts to make that 30k dollar car cost 20,000. So now 8000 dollars of your money is going to outside of the US. Now let's say it costs about 3000 all inclusive for the labor and all the logistics that go along with building that car, which is going to Mexico.

So now 11,000 out of the 30,000 has left the US economy. So we have 7000 dollars left... say 4000 goes to R&D which is probably domestic, 1000 goes to marketing, and 1000 of it is profit.

Now in the end I really have to ask you, how does the 1000 or so dollars of profit that a manufacturer might see if it's LUCKY, per vehicle sold, compare to 8000 dollars in overseas parts or 3000 dollars in labor?

Marketing is of course almost always domestically spent no matter which company is in question, and these days R&D is often times majority domestic even by foreign companies because our cars are built specifically for our markets.

So no, I'm still not trying to say that on average a 'foreign brand' vehicle is better than a domestic brand vehicle, but I AM saying that there are MANY cases where that is true, so you can't just make blind statements like 'well where does the profit go?' because the profit is a VERY small slice of the pie when compared to all the other money that may potentially get sent overseas in the production and development process.

But, it's just not that simple:

Where is the frame engineered? The transmission? The engine? The body panels? Where are the vehicle's designers -- interior and exterior? GM, being NA in origin, still has a large percent of these functions in the US (to a significant cost detriment). While some of Toyota's design and engineering work is done here, a vast, vast majority is still done in Japan. Lastly, GM being union, pays it's employees far more than Toyota does -- and as a result, pumps a LOT more money into the American economy than a Toyota or a Honda workforce. When it comes to putting dollars back into the American economy, I think a Toyota/Honda/Nissan would pale in comparison to GM or Ford -- and I don't think it would even be close. Just take a look at the number of people employeed alone; GM and Ford's presense in the American workplace towers above any other auto manufacturers. BTW, the current Tundra has a paulty 35% domestic content -- pretty shabby in comparison to GM and Ford's 90%.

Ok, more information on what the legal definition of "domestic content" is:

Domestic content: beginning in model year 2005, components that are wholly grown, produced or manufactured in the U.S., Canada or Mexico or substantially transformed during the manufacturing process in the U.S., Canada or Mexico into a new and different article of commerce

So, you could produce every part for an engine or transmission overseas, ship individual pieces or "large chunks" to the US for "final assembly" - & that engine or transmission would quality as domestic content. Sounds like the "domestic content" label isn't much good, huh? And just to muddy the waters further, companies can apply for "exemptions". So you could actually build AND assembly something overseas - and still claim "Made in the USA". Sounds like some politician(s) got a nice kickback somewhere..

I don't need anybody educating me on the term 'local' in relation to automakers. Toyota is no more American than GM is Japanese... it's just a spin on words to help change people's mindset about accepting foreign auto brands.

The mere fact that money is going back to Japan so that Toyota can continue to clone Camry's and sell them virtually unchanged in different regions throughout the globe is proof that they are just a money hungry Japanese automaker with very little interest to diversify and give the consumer something unique and exciting. Toyota build cars they believe you should be driving, not cars that you want Toyota to build.

The only reason why Toyota/Honda/Nissan have invested in the US is to circumvent the federal government's rules to protect the American auto industry. It's not principally because they want to create jobs and keep the economy rolling.

I would love to see the Japanese open up their market to US companies. If the US federal government introduced a law to allow as many Japanese vehicles to be sold in the US as Japan sells US vehicles, it might redress the current imbalance that's allowing the Japanese automakers to continue to prosper. It might also suppress Toyota's aggressive growth targets and cause profits to plummet. Maybe then Toyota might shed its conservative approach.

But why change if money is easy to come by?

Originally posted by Fbodfather....

STATEMENT: “OH YEAH? WELL MY TOYOTA/HONDA/BMW/MERCEDES IS BUILT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES!”


82% parts in the average GM car or truck are domestic content
At Honda, it’s 49%
At Toyota, it’s 41%
Nissan? 38%
BMW? 11%
Lexus is 3%

(by the way……go look at what the ‘transplants’ pay in taxes….real estate, school, state and federal……you might be surprised……if you’re a teacher and you’re complaining about budgets in you’re driving a Toyota or Honda, SHUT UP!)

GM/Ford/and DCX provide 23.4 jobs per 100 vehicles sold in the United States

The Japanese competitors? 13.3 jobs per 100 vehicles sold in the United States

GM’s capital investment in the United States from 1999 thru 2003 was $20Billion. Toyota’s capital investment from 1980 thru 2003 was $10.7Billion. Nissan’s? 2.8Billion from 1980 thru 2003…Honda? $5.6Billion – ’80 thru ’03.

GM’s contribution to the U.S. Gross National Product (GNP) is 4 times that of Toyota

Every Day, over 1 million North Americans earn their living by helping GM build and sell cars in North America. – Every month, 457,000 retirees and their spouses count on GM for pension checks. More than 1.1 Million people receive health care benefits from GM. A one-point drop in GM market share results in over 18,000 jobs in the United States.

Originally posted by Fbodfather....

STATEMENT: “OH YEAH? WELL MY TOYOTA/HONDA/BMW/MERCEDES IS BUILT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES!”


82% parts in the average GM car or truck are domestic content
At Honda, it’s 49%
At Toyota, it’s 41%
Nissan? 38%
BMW? 11%
Lexus is 3%

(by the way……go look at what the ‘transplants’ pay in taxes….real estate, school, state and federal……you might be surprised……if you’re a teacher and you’re complaining about budgets in you’re driving a Toyota or Honda, SHUT UP!)

GM/Ford/and DCX provide 23.4 jobs per 100 vehicles sold in the United States

The Japanese competitors? 13.3 jobs per 100 vehicles sold in the United States

GM’s capital investment in the United States from 1999 thru 2003 was $20Billion. Toyota’s capital investment from 1980 thru 2003 was $10.7Billion. Nissan’s? 2.8Billion from 1980 thru 2003…Honda? $5.6Billion – ’80 thru ’03.

GM’s contribution to the U.S. Gross National Product (GNP) is 4 times that of Toyota

Every Day, over 1 million North Americans earn their living by helping GM build and sell cars in North America. – Every month, 457,000 retirees and their spouses count on GM for pension checks. More than 1.1 Million people receive health care benefits from GM. A one-point drop in GM market share results in over 18,000 jobs in the United States.

Yep, like I said, I'm well aware of the average percentages and that's why I've said time and time again that I'm aware on average that buying an import is worse for the economy than buying a domestic, but people who are so redneck as to just make an assumption based on the badge on the front of the car somebody drives or the car they drive, annoy me. My point has always been it's not always black and white, import and domestic. It's very often shades of gray and there are increasingly more and more cases where you'd be doing the domestic economy FAR more good to buy an 'import' than to buy a 'domestic'. Take the Honda Civic for example. Buying that would send far more dollars to your brothers and sisters across the US than a Chevy Aveo, which would be 95% in support of a bunch of Koreans.:p

Please also consider, when looking at those numbers, that historically the Japanese makes have only made cars here that they intend to SELL here. Whereas we have built cars for distribution all over the world. That most definitely tends to skew numbers. But look at the changes over the last 5 years. GM has been making a very obvious and very strong push to move parts sourcing and labor from overseas, build cars in their country of final sale, and so on. Do I blame them? Not at all! It makes financial sense for a variety of reasons; many of the same reasons why the import companies are investing more and more money recently in sourcing parts, labor, and even design teams from our domestic market.

So what am I trying to say here? It's my belief that those who are trying to say "buy domestic only" are fighting a battle that in the long run can't be won and even if it were won, it wouldn't do us any good. In this day of the expanding global economy, domestic economic isolation may help over the short term, but it's only allowing the rest of the world to grow stronger in the mean time, and we can't isolate our economy forever and expect to stay on top.

Solution? GM and Ford both need to take a card from D.C. and merge with another large company from another continent. Just my opinion.