What Happened to the Pontiac Concept This Year?

I thought there was going to be a Pontiac Sedan Concept at NAIAS, possibly the G8. Did it get changed to a different auto show this year, or did it get dropped? Or did I just read some bad info somewhere.

You know, there was a lot of speculation regarding this. I ownder if we might see something at one of the other big shows...

I have read that there is to be a 2007 or 2008 G8 from Pontiac, and it is to be built off the New Zeta (read this after work was resumed).

So who knows when we will see the production version. Or even Preproduction.

I wonder if they are waiting for Chicago?

I wonder if they are waiting for Chicago?

Man I hope so, it would be awesome to see a new RWD sedan from Pontiac, and to be at the unveiling, damn

I think a Pontiac rep was referring to the Solstice GXP - without naming it. From there the rumors spread.

I think a Pontiac rep was referring to the Solstice GXP - without naming it. From there the rumors spread.


I've seen other mentions of it though.

We'll see.

I would think that GM would need more than a New Camaro and GTO on the Zeta to be even usuable as a platform.

wasn't there also supposed be a Pontiac G4 (Cobalt) showing up this autoshow season too??

wasn't there also supposed be a Pontiac G4 (Cobalt) showing up this autoshow season too??
No.

I think the RWD sedan rumors are probably just a little early. We could see something at Chicago, typically the Pontiac/Buick show, but likely we will see the Acadia and Outlook as the only new cars.

There was just a hint on C&G from AH-HA that the GTO would come back with a twist. I will leave that open to interpretation as he has done.

There was just a hint on C&G from AH-HA that the GTO would come back with a twist. I will leave that open to interpretation as he has done.

I think the 'twist' is a quad coupe.

The twist is it will now be on GMT-900.

I think the 'twist' is a quad coupe.
Saw your post over there saying this as well. Do we have anything besides gut instict right now, BTW my gut says the same thing now (Guy did hint at a quad coupe MC about a year ago maybe this is what became of it)?

maybe they decided not to show it after the camaro stole the show. they could have realized the pontiac wouldnt have got much attention at all bc of the camaro so they will wait for another show; probably chicago (my guess)

Saw your post over there saying this as well. Do we have anything besides gut instict right now, BTW my gut says the same thing now (Guy did hint at a quad coupe MC about a year ago maybe this is what became of it)?

We'll see if Pontiac starts floating this conceptual idea around. I'd be very interested in seeing what it would be like. I understand it is very sporty coupe...and you hardly notice the rear doors.

Of course, such an idea would be completely rejected on sites like this...after all, the GTO has ALWAYS, (well since 2004, anyways), been a 2+2 coupe.

Pontiac is trying to make the case for an interesting product here...I hope it works out for them.

There is more behind it than gut...but......the whole thing is still uncertain.

I don't think a quad coupe is necessarily such a bad idea... the interior isn't going to get any worse than the current one, and neither is the power... Could be a very interesting car.

meh, I'd rather see the redesigned 08 GTO

Maybe its a T/A..err...I mean GTO. :p

I wouldn't be too terribly opposed to seeing a quad coupe GTO.

Our Ion Redline is a quad-coupe and it has worked out well for us. I really like it and it still looks fairly sporty.

For the record, and for what it is worth, I hope they cancel the GTO altogether before they make a quad coupe out of it. That is like making the Camaro a quad coupe. The G8, Grand Prix would be a fine a candiate for a quad coupe design, but not the GTO. Bad enough we have 4 door Chargers and now Superbees :mad:

GM showed the press a few months ago a GTO quad coupe concept. As I said in my other post...if they truley wanted to end brand overlap...this is a perfect way to do it..since Buick and Pontiac dealers will be combined..and Buick sells nothing but large traditional sedans. I was against it as first...but if done right I could like it. Anyone seen how rediculous it is to get in the rear of a current GTO?

So let buick have a quad coupe called the Grand National, or Grand Sport. Put faster seat motors, a button to make the upper part of the driver seat move forward, whatever. I am SOOOOOOOOOOOO dead set against a GTO being a 4 door, that I would rather see the nameplate retire . Will that make a lick of difference? No most likely not, but I do think that the GTO nameplate deserves better. The first super car, to quad coupe , just doesn't seem right.

For the record, and for what it is worth, I hope they cancel the GTO altogether before they make a quad coupe out of it.

You may get your wish.

However keep in mind what the original GTO was. A very affordable performance and cosmetic package on a 5 or 6 passenger Tempest 2 door sedan, hardtop or convertible.

I think the problem is almost everyone has forgotten what the GTO originally was. When the 3 letters GTO are mentioned, people usually conjure up images of a fire-breathing muscle icon, not a 5 or 6 passenger Tempest.

Charlie,

We have discussed this at some length before. We know where each of us stand on the past history of the GTO versus the modern day iteration. And while I agree, I would have preferred to see it as a 5 passenger coupe, instead of it's current 2+2, I think making it a quad coupe deviates too far from it's heritage. And, although the GTO is not my favorite musclecar,(I am truely pissed about the Super Bee package on the SRT-8 Charger :mad:) it is a milestone of American automotive history (and I know I am preaching to the choir, re: your knowledge of American iron) and I truely find it distressing that it may be made as a 4 door (and I thought the Nova based GTO was abhorrent).
Look forward to talking with you at length over a beer in Chicago next month.

James

I think the problem is almost everyone has forgotten what the GTO originally was. When the 3 letters GTO are mentioned, people usually conjure up images of a fire-breathing muscle icon, not a 5 or 6 passenger Tempest.

Believe me, I am fully cognizant of what the GTO was, and maybe more importantly wasn't. Which is why I was fully supportive of the current GTO (though as I said above, I wish they had made it a 5 passenger coupe). Just because the Tempest was a larger car by todays standards, it doesn't mean the GTO should be a 4 door.

I think the problem is almost everyone has forgotten what the GTO originally was. When the 3 letters GTO are mentioned, people usually conjure up images of a fire-breathing muscle icon, not a 5 or 6 passenger Tempest.


exactly, but does GM use that to their advantage? No.

Look forward to talking with you at length over a beer in Chicago next month.

James

Me too.

FWIW, I'd prefer a 5 passenger, 2 door for the GTO as well. But if it can only come back as a quad coupe I'd be open to it.

Hey quit your wining about the GTO. IF the GTO gets a QUAD COUPE. I would say that definitely increases your chances of getting a 2 door pontiac coupe formerly known as the FIREBIRD!!!

The business case is shot dead in the water if Pontiac has a 2dr GTO and a 2dr Firebird on the same Chassis. So my vote goes to teh Quad Coupe GTO. I think it'd be cool.

A 4door GTO? Please kill it now if that is the case.

Pontiac's Zeta program is seen as more of a replacement for the W-car. What happens or doesn't happen with GTO is unfortunately on the periphery. Let's face facts kids, the GTO made alot of money for Holden but was sort of a sales disappointment for Pontiac. Blame it on the dealers or whatever, but everyone (including me) was forecasting that these 18,000 units would be snapped up quickly. Didn't happen. In fact volume was reduced by 50% and has remained so. Don't think GM hasn't noticed.

OTOH, if Pontiac had a spiritual successor to the GP GXP, with RWD, 400 hp, 6 speed manual....great styling, (which I hear picks up alot of '60s GTO cues but still looks modern)...and had a GTO emblem on it......I'd go buy it....TODAY!

Pontiac's Zeta program is seen as more of a replacement for the W-car. What happens or doesn't happen with GTO is unfortunately on the periphery. Let's face facts kids, the GTO made alot of money for Holden but was sort of a sales disappointment for Pontiac. Blame it on the dealers or whatever, but everyone (including me) was forecasting that these 18,000 units would be snapped up quickly. Didn't happen. In fact volume was reduced by 50% and has remained so. Don't think GM hasn't noticed.

OTOH, if Pontiac had a spiritual successor to the GP GXP, with RWD, 400 hp, 6 speed manual....great styling, (which I hear picks up alot of '60s GTO cues but still looks modern)...and had a GTO emblem on it......I'd go buy it....TODAY!


Volume was not cut by 50%... it was 33%. And if I recall correctly, that was so the model years could switch from Austrailian timing to American timing so GTO's model year would switch around the same time as the rest of the Pontiacs....

Let's also not forget that GTO was one of the few GM vehicles to stand on it's own most of the year without incentives.

Volume was not cut by 50%... it was 33%. And if I recall correctly, that was so the model years could switch from Austrailian timing to American timing so GTO's model year would switch around the same time as the rest of the Pontiacs....

Ok I see what you're saying. I was looking at it as a 50% increase from 12K is 18K.

33% cut from 18K is a better way to say it.

GM showed the press a few months ago a GTO quad coupe concept. As I said in my other post...if they truley wanted to end brand overlap...this is a perfect way to do it..since Buick and Pontiac dealers will be combined..and Buick sells nothing but large traditional sedans. I was against it as first...but if done right I could like it. Anyone seen how rediculous it is to get in the rear of a current GTO?
Any of the insiders who were at the press preview want to confirm. I find it interesting that this was never mentioned until now, whereas much of what was at the preview (next GMT360s, Lambdas, NG CTS, NG Malibu) was mentioned VERY quickly and in fact has been discussed for quite a while. I would think this would have been one of the BIG things to talk about.

I thought we already had this awhile back?

A 4door GTO? Please kill it now if that is the case.

I fear that Pontiac is very intrigued by what Dodge did with the Charger.

If a 4 door Charger can be a good success....why not GTO....:(

Personally, I'd much prefer my idea of a G8 GTO package, which would be nothing more than a G8 coupe coupled with the biggest motor available to Pontiac and a 6-speed.

No four door GTO, if they must have a four door call it something else.

I think it would be cool to have a quad coupe GTO. And as was mentioned above, it would provide more differentiation between a 2+2 two door Camaro and the Goat.

Another vote to kill it if its a 4 door.

And for the record, the Charger is a nice car but I would never buy one because of the name. :p

I currently own a GTO but it's my first coupe in awhile. If GM had brought the Commodore SS here I would have snapped one up instead of the GTO. I would reconsider a Quad coupe if it was decently done. Should such a car be called GTO? As others have pointed out, the Charger was coupe-only until recently, and DC still gets a lot of enthusiast scorn. There didn't seem to be such a hue and cry when the Grand Prix went 4-doors in 1990...

IMHO, GM needs to replace the 100k of volume that the W-body Grand Prix sells, before worrying about the 12k of volume the GTO represents. I still think there's room for a next-gen GTO... will Holden's next Monaro be more like the Camaro, or, just like the G8 is riding on the basic VE Commodore design, could a next-gen GTO ride on the VE Monaro design?

I currently own a GTO but it's my first coupe in awhile. If GM had brought the Commodore SS here I would have snapped one up instead of the GTO. I would reconsider a Quad coupe if it was decently done. Should such a car be called GTO? As others have pointed out, the Charger was coupe-only until recently, and DC still gets a lot of enthusiast scorn. There didn't seem to be such a hue and cry when the Grand Prix went 4-doors in 1990...


In all fairness, the Grand Prix name, while having a long history, was never anything even close to the GTO name in stature and following.... so I wouldn't expect a giant outcry of disgust when it went 4 door.... this is the very reason why I thing the Quad-Coupe formula would be much much much better applied to the Monte Carlo nameplate than the GTO nameplate.

And, while a few have been suggesting that the Charger nameplate being put on a 4-door has flown relatively under the radar with little resistance..... that's simply not true at all. A LOT of Mopars fans and others were upset by this and still are. This doesn't mean a car can't sell well, but it does mean that you are upsetting many fans of your nameplate's history.

Quad Coupe... ummm SunBird! :lol:

Some of you talk about the GTO's history like you're quoting the Bible. The GTO is a coupe, it might become a quad coupe. SO WHAT? Does this offend people? If the rumors spoke of FWD and a V6, I'd be right there with you guys, but this is two half-doors. It's a style change.

Also, while people in these circles speak about the new Charger like it's a dark mark on the industry, I can't help but notice a crap load of them on the road. I also notice that Dodge's future seems a lot brighter and clearer right now than that of Pontiac, the "damaged" brand.

And this is a last thing to remember. I've said this before, but I thoroughly beleive that Pontiac's continued existence is NOT assured. I have no inside information whatsoever, but I can read between the lines. Comments from LaNeve mean nothing - they'll say anything to continue selling cars. With this in mind, I think that ANY model that allows Pontiac to be unique and provides them with a viable seller needs to be considered. I love the current GTO (one in our driveway), but it is not that car. Perhaps a quad-coupe GTO is just the sort of out of the box car this brand needs.

As long as there is awesome styling a 400HP LS2 and 6 speed autos and manuals at a price of $29,995 or less, then i don't care what they call it.

I supose as long as it looked like a coupe I wouldn't car if the GTO had 4 doors....but the GTO version should only be a V8 car. Keep the V6's named G8

And this is a last thing to remember. I've said this before, but I thoroughly beleive that Pontiac's continued existence is NOT assured. I have no inside information whatsoever, but I can read between the lines. Comments from LaNeve mean nothing - they'll say anything to continue selling cars. With this in mind, I think that ANY model that allows Pontiac to be unique and provides them with a viable seller needs to be considered. I love the current GTO (one in our driveway), but it is not that car. Perhaps a quad-coupe GTO is just the sort of out of the box car this brand needs.


I'd like everyone to read this 3x per day for the next 7 days.

For the record, and for what it is worth, I hope they cancel the GTO altogether before they make a quad coupe out of it. That is like making the Camaro a quad coupe. The G8, Grand Prix would be a fine a candiate for a quad coupe design, but not the GTO. Bad enough we have 4 door Chargers and now Superbees :mad:
A 4door GTO? Please kill it now if that is the case.

How about a little trivia. ;)

In the early 70s Pontiac was desparately trying to find a way to reinvent the GTO. Skyrocketing insurence and a change in public taste in cars moving towards more luxury (as opposed to the perception that emissions and fuel economy killing sales) had all but killed GTO's sales (keep in mind, car lines back then had to be locked in a couple of years prior, and a vehicle typically took 5 years to develop, meaning '73 GTO planning took place in 71).

Pontiac came up with a all new direction for the GTO. It would continue on the LeMans line, but would be a separate model. It would have a 455SD (originally engineered for the GTO, but instead used on the Trans Am), a unique front end, lovered side windows, body colored rear bumpers, and (shockingly) would be a 4 door sedan. It would have debuted with the new G-bodies in 1973, and would have emphasized handling as much as or more than straight line acceleration.

Before introduction, Pontiac had a new general manager who was against all out performance for the brand, especially the GTO (can't remember the guy's name, but I can look it up later). He effectively killed this GTO, leaving the '73 GTO nothing more than a tape job on a '73 LeMans. The car that would have been this killer GTO sedan was extended to include a coupe, lost the 455SD, and came out under the name Grand Am!

If it wasn't for an anti-performance general manager, the 1973 Pontiac GTO would have been reborn a high performance, hot handling, mid sized sports... SEDAN!!! ;)

(The '74 was an attempt to get GTO back to it's roots, but that didn't last a year, and was overshadowed by Trans Am's dramatically growing sales).


GM showed the press a few months ago a GTO quad coupe concept. As I said in my other post...if they truley wanted to end brand overlap...this is a perfect way to do it..since Buick and Pontiac dealers will be combined..and Buick sells nothing but large traditional sedans. I was against it as first...but if done right I could like it. Anyone seen how rediculous it is to get in the rear of a current GTO?

I think this is the evolution of the large Zeta sedans that were shelved a year ago.


Hey quit your wining about the GTO. IF the GTO gets a QUAD COUPE. I would say that definitely increases your chances of getting a 2 door pontiac coupe formerly known as the FIREBIRD!!!

The business case is shot dead in the water if Pontiac has a 2dr GTO and a 2dr Firebird on the same Chassis. So my vote goes to teh Quad Coupe GTO. I think it'd be cool.

This WOULD make the case for a Firebird easier. :)

Interesting story Guy, you have some great backroom info. However, I stand by my comment. If they want to do a quad coupe sports sedan, I believe they should come up with a new name. Tempest or Grand Prix for the sedan, GTO for a pillarless coupe and vert. If GM is serious about making Pontiac a BMW competitor, then they should have this Zeta platform comparable to the 3 series. Just my .02 cents.

I'd be fine with them calling this a GTO, and I'd buy one...

http://www.netcarshow.com/pontiac/1997-rageous_concept/800x600/wallpaper_01.jpg

http://www.netcarshow.com/pontiac/1997-rageous_concept/800x600/wallpaper_02.jpg

Old news about the GrandAm nothing new. You will find that info in any good book about Pontiacs. 4 door GTO? NEVER!!

Interesting story Guy, you have some great backroom info. However, I stand by my comment. If they want to do a quad coupe sports sedan, I believe they should come up with a new name. Tempest or Grand Prix for the sedan, GTO for a pillarless coupe and vert. If GM is serious about making Pontiac a BMW competitor, then they should have this Zeta platform comparable to the 3 series. Just my .02 cents.

How about a GTO version of a sedan comparable to Dodge Charger SRT-4, but with an LS7 and a manual?

No, as far as I know it's not what's planned, just wanted to probe some ideas.

How about a GTO version of a sedan comparable to Dodge Charger SRT-4, but with an LS7 and a manual?

No, as far as I know it's not what's planned, just wanted to probe some ideas.


That'd float much better than a quad coupe (RX8 style) imho.

As long as it had looks and perf to back it up, I'd def look into it.

I'm asking GM for a 3 series fighter in the form of a rwd 4 door, maybe this' would be it...?

That'd float much better than a quad coupe (RX8 style) imho.

As long as it had looks and perf to back it up, I'd def look into it.

I'm asking GM for a 3 series fighter in the form of a rwd 4 door, maybe this' would be it...?

Just curious, why is a sedan more acceptable than a quad coupe?

As long as it was a 2 door coupe. Sorry I can't get past a 4 door GTO no matter what you say. Even the Ferrari GTO was a 2 door, so was the Mitsubishi GTO.

How about a GTO version of a sedan comparable to Dodge Charger SRT-4, but with an LS7 and a manual?

No, as far as I know it's not what's planned, just wanted to probe some ideas.


Again, I think that the GTO name plate should not be attached to anything with 4 doors (suicide or otherwise). I would have no problem (like it truly matters, but since this is a debate, what the hell :D)with the GTO being a 2 door, RWD version of either an all new RWD Grand Prix or if the GP name is tied to Oshawa, how about the Tempest? Both names have good historical significane for Pontiac, and unlike the LeMans never "graced" the side of a Korean made FWD sub compact. For that matter, I would welcome back the Le Mans as I think it was a good name plate, fitting in with Pontiac's "excitement" division image.

I understand that I may be in the minority when it comes to wishing to keep these nameplate's at least somewhat close to their historical forebearers, but it really steams me up that Dodge made the Charger a 4 door. And although I like the graphics of the SuperBee package, it is about as far from the original intent and execution of the first SuperBee's as you can get (short of putting it on a FWD import)

How about a GTO version of a sedan comparable to Dodge Charger SRT-4, but with an LS7 and a manual?

No, as far as I know it's not what's planned, just wanted to probe some ideas.

Well, I've heard that GM (Pontiac) is watching developements with the Charger with great interest. Especially the part where Dodge tried to peg it as 'the 4 door with coupe styling' .

Let's count all the Charger performance models.
Charger R/T.
Charger R/T with the Road and Track pkg (I know kinda goofy..the R/T with the RT pkg :rolleyes: ).
Charger Daytona. (in various designer colors)
Charger SRT-8.
Charger SRT-8 Super Bee.

How many Ponchos can you come up with from one basic G8?

A max effort G8 sedan called GTO is not without the realm of possibilities.

Well, I've heard that GM (Pontiac) is watching developements with the Charger with great interest. Especially the part where Dodge tried to peg it as 'the 4 door with coupe styling' .

Let's count all the Charger performance models.
Charger R/T.
Charger R/T with the Road and Track pkg (I know kinda goofy..the R/T with the RT pkg :rolleyes: ).
Charger Daytona. (in various designer colors)
Charger SRT-8.
Charger SRT-8 Super Bee.

How many Ponchos can you come up with from one basic G8?

A max effort G8 sedan called GTO is not without the realm of possibilities.
Ooh, like a GTO option package? Where do I sign?

Well, I've heard that GM (Pontiac) is watching developements with the Charger with great interest. Especially the part where Dodge tried to peg it as 'the 4 door with coupe styling' .

Let's count all the Charger performance models.
Charger R/T.
Charger R/T with the Road and Track pkg (I know kinda goofy..the R/T with the RT pkg :rolleyes: ).
Charger Daytona. (in various designer colors)
Charger SRT-8.
Charger SRT-8 Super Bee.

How many Ponchos can you come up with from one basic G8?

A max effort G8 sedan called GTO is not without the realm of possibilities.

Why not offer a GTO COUPE based on the G8? That right there is your Challenger/M3 fighter. Then they could have a max effort Grand Prix GXP Sedan and still keep the GTO closer to its heritage (though I do wish they would make a 5 seat coupe out of it).

Why not offer a GTO COUPE based on the G8? That right there is your Challenger/M3 fighter. Then they could have a max effort Grand Prix GXP Sedan and still keep the GTO closer to its heritage (though I do wish they would make a 5 seat coupe out of it).

Hey, in my ideal world I'd like to see the GTO be a direct competitor to the Challenger, that is, a 5 pass., two door.

But I'm thinking...and maybe I'm wrong...but I'm thinking, Pontiac won't get more than one Zeta.

And I'm gonna tell you something James, and I know you're going to think I'm full of it...but since you're a cool guy, I know I can tell you what I think. When I saw those Super Bee decals on that yellow Charger, I felt a tinge of excitement. Yeah, I know they're just chessy vinyl decals, but some weird thing clicked when I saw them.

If all we get from Pontiac is just ONE killer Zeta, that just also happens to be a sedan...getting one in full GTO regalia, would give me that same tinge.

And I'd bet it would outsell the current GTO. Hell, if it delivered the goods - performance wise - and had really expressive styling, I'd bet it would outsell the '04, '05 AND '06 GTO, combined.

You might say, screw it....if it doesn't have two doors, just wait for the next one. The problem is, Pontiac might not be around for that.

LOL Charlie! I have to admit, even I ,who really doesn't like the Charger, got a little excited about the Super Bee (but only bee-cause it was one of my favorite Mopar's from the day ;) )

I personally think it is the best looking SRT-8 out there at this time. In fact, and I know this is doing a 180 from what I have previously said, but I could see myself owning a Super Bee (as long as it wasn't yellow). Fortunately, there is this little matter of the Camaro and the Challenger keeping me from having to swallow my general distate for the Charger and pony up for one :D

PS-will be in Mattoon on Feb 7th, will pm you my number so that we can hook up for the Auto show. Look forward to meeting you guys and catching a cold one.-James

Just curious, why is a sedan more acceptable than a quad coupe?


have you ever tried to fit into the back seat of a car with rear 1/2 doors? just as difficult a proposition as a coupe, sometimes worse if the door is difficult to reach once inside.

Seriously, if they just design the coupe with front seats that are not 8 inches thick, and that can move forward 2 feet, there is enough room to get into the back seat.

The back seat of the current goat is acceptable to me as a 4 seater.

But 1/2 doors..... it does not seem worth the hassle to me.

Or if they can design a nice looking 4 door that is sporty as hell and has awesome performance (and a manual trans) then I'd be all over it. Just as long as the rear seat is usable (not like a cavalier 4 door, lol).

give me either 2 or 4. not 2 and 2 1/2s .