Stall questions??? 2800 guys!!!

Ok, so my next step in modding is either a cam or a stall

i am leaing towards a stall because i am leaving going into the motor until last.

I am looking at a Vigilante 2800

what would i expect to see??? where would i be able to launch?? (2800 or lower???)

where would it just Roll-out at when i am moving from a stop through stoplights??? does it affect cruising?? RPM's........where would the car shift at now when i am launching at the strip?? (1st is 40 now, 2nd is 80.....and so on) would it change

i am a stall newbie so please guys help me out. (i am searching for info too, but these are just some direct questions i had)

thanks a lot guys.....Scott

P.s.-- i would have my computer retuned for the stall and throw a shift kit with a tranny cooler in there..........What are some things i would see?? How would it affect my tranny and so forth??? (mods are in sig)

Tranny cooler is a must. I plan on doing some of the same things you are, leave the engine till last. The tranny cooler isn't hard to install, just time consuming.

Also, I don't know if it's because you have 3.23 gears, but I shift at 55-60mph in first, and almost around 90+ in second to third. :shrug:

Some people say the stall takes off .2 or something from their times.

Tranny cooler is a must. I plan on doing some of the same things you are, leave the engine till last. The tranny cooler isn't hard to install, just time consuming.

Also, I don't know if it's because you have 3.23 gears, but I shift at 55-60mph in first, and almost around 90+ in second to third. :shrug:

Some people say the stall takes off .2 or something from their times.



think u have a 2.73 car. if you cant put it in first on the center console then u do

and i have heard as much as a .6 off of ET, but it just depends on how well you could hook b4. Im guessin 60fts with a 2800 would be 1.6.....1.5 is kinda pushin it but i dunno (and usually for ever .1 down with 60 ft time is about .2 tenths reduction in ET. Of course depending on what speed you are traveling..........12's-14's)

think u have a 2.73 car. if you cant put it in first on the center console then u do
I already know I do. Just wondering if that MPH difference is from the gears. Can't be anything else so...

I already know I do. Just wondering if that MPH difference is from the gears. Can't be anything else so...



nope........cruising MPH is strickly dependent upon gears.

Yes, it's the different gear ratios affecting the speed at the shift points. ~55 mph 1->2 and ~95 mph 2->3 is right for 2.73's ;).

As long as you can hook, you can expect to take upwards of ~.5 seconds off your 1/4 mile time, but not off your 60' time :think: :no:. At least I don't think a stock-"ish" LT1 would cut 1.5's - 1.6's with just a 2800 stall?:confused: I'm sure you could easily expect 1.8's, and possibly 1.7's though (that's a couple tenths quicker than normal 60' times, and should translate to ~.4 - .5 off the 1/4 mile time).

As far as shift points go, AFAIK there shouldn't be much difference in your speed at the shift points due to the stall:think:. And cruising RPM's should stay the same as long as you run a lock-up converter, same as stock.

Yes, it's the different gear ratios affecting the speed at the shift points. ~55 mph 1->2 and ~95 mph 2->3 is right for 2.73's ;).

As long as you can hook, you can expect to take upwards of ~.5 seconds off your 1/4 mile time, but not off your 60' time :think: :no:. At least I don't think a stock-"ish" LT1 would cut 1.5's - 1.6's with just a 2800 stall?:confused: I'm sure you could easily expect 1.8's, and possibly 1.7's though (that's a couple tenths quicker than normal 60' times, and should translate to ~.4 - .5 off the 1/4 mile time).

As far as shift points go, AFAIK there shouldn't be much difference in your speed at the shift points due to the stall:think:. And cruising RPM's should stay the same as long as you run a lock-up converter, same as stock.


So when u are getting on it from a dig and ur RPM's are starting at lets say 3000 with the stall. Will the shift points be the same??? or will the converter just not let the motor climb anymore in the RPM range until it has matched the same speed as 3000 then it will start to climb???? is that the way it works?

Thanks

The shift points at WOT (wide open throttle) will stay the same, and at that point, the engine is turning well beyond stall speed, so the tranny won't know the difference.

The stall doesn't mean the car won't start to move until the motor is turning at stall speed, it will drive just like normal under "normal" driving (light - moderate acceleration). It's only when you step right into it that you'll really notice the motor rev to around ~3k before the car really starts to get going.

Keep in mind, a stock converter is about a ~1600 stall, yet the car starts driving at ~500 RPM ;). But when you step on it, the motor only gets to ~1600 and it has to start pulling (that's why it'll bog, unless you get a stall and let the motor rev higher before the converter REALLY grabs :thumb: ).

The converter "stalls" the engine until it reaches 3000 like capn said. Basically it means the stall lets the engine free run up to the point of stall (like revving it in neutral), then catches and then starts sending power to the trans. Whole concept behind it is you're getting more power at the wheels initially, then you are when you have a stall at 1600. Since there is more power to be made at 3000 than 1600. With lock up the car will keep the converter locked so it is always transfering power, even at 1000. But if you stomp on it, it unlocks, letting the engine rev to 3000, and giving a harder launch.

On a side note, does anyone know when/what conditions the converter locks up?

Might want to read Rich's sticky (http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416897) on the subject ;). He may have a little more insight into when lock-up does/doesn't occur :cool:.

Might want to read Rich's sticky (http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416897) on the subject ;). He may have a little more insight into when lock-up does/doesn't occur :cool:.
I know how and everything. But I want to know when the computer decides to lock it up. Not how and why it locks up. Trust me, I've done hours of reading and know. Just wanted to know what parameters the computer sees then goes, "better lock that thing up".

ok, guys............i think i understand it now. Anyways, my vote still goes to me gettin a stall :)

Fuddle Racing's Site [One of our new sponsors] has the terms and shift extensions explained well in the FAQ section. I am hoping to get one of their converters by the end of the month when the sale ends, $350 for a wicked converter is a sweet deal IMO. I'd seriously give them a call, the site has their number. Mountain Time Zone. Tell him your setup and what your plans are and he'll get the right stall size made for your application. 3.23's are a good gear, no need to go higher unless you really want to or want to help the drivibility on a larger size cam.

I'd personally look ahead and see where you plan to go with the car. What size cam, juice, S/C or what? Your camshaft and TC work hand in hand, so match those up and youll be happy.

-Dustin-

So are you getting one or what?

-Dustin-

yeah


except i think im going to be getting a 3200 instead.

stall is when u power brake it and watch the tach. with the brakes applied u push the gas untill the rpms stop climbing. thats youre stall speed. so in a stock car with a 1500 stall converter with the brakes fully applied and pushing down on the gas the rpms will rise to 1500 then stop. if I got a high stall converter i would also get a transbrake so I wouldn't wear the brakes out. you turn the trans brake on rev it up to lets say 4000 then when the lights come down you let go of the transbrake and your car will launch realy hard. just remember the higher stall you get the more powerful the motor needs to be. and of course like everybody before me said if you get a realy high stall you wont have much acceleration at low rpms. also when you're racing you dont want the converter locking up because this gets rid of the tourqe multiplication. i run a toggle switch on my 700r4. not shure if you'd be able to control ur 4l80e.

The converter "stalls" the engine until it reaches 3000 like capn said. Basically it means the stall lets the engine free run up to the point of stall (like revving it in neutral), then catches and then starts sending power to the trans. Whole concept behind it is you're getting more power at the wheels initially, then you are when you have a stall at 1600. Since there is more power to be made at 3000 than 1600. With lock up the car will keep the converter locked so it is always transfering power, even at 1000. But if you stomp on it, it unlocks, letting the engine rev to 3000, and giving a harder launch.

On a side note, does anyone know when/what conditions the converter locks up?

That really is not true. Lets say you have a 3000 rpm stall converter. This DOES NOT mean that you will sit with the car in gear and be able to rev the engine to 2900rpm before you move, not at all. Maybe i am misunderstanding what you meant in your post but i just wanted to clear up this misconception. For example, stock stalls are somewhere between 1600 and 1800rpm from what i have heard. My car starts to move just by letting off the brake and not even touching the throttle, when obviously the engine is not turning anywhere near 1600rpm, more like 600. Now i do not have a stall converter, but from reading numerous posts it seems that cars with 3000 stall converters will move just by letting off the brake and not even touching the gas, again, the engine will, of course, not be turning 3000 rpm. The point of stall converters is to get the engine in the power band faster, this is what is referred to as "flash stall". For example, lets say you have a 3000 stall converter and you take off from a light at normal speed, then you floor the gas, the engine will "flash" to somewhere around 3000 rpm, depending on gearing, engine power, weight of the car etc. Now with a stock stall in the same situation the engine would only flash to somewhere around 1800 rpm. Now, as you can see, since the engine will be turning 1200rpm faster it will be making more power and hence provide better accelaration.