Some thoughts on the Camaro unveiling today.

I got back to Pittsburgh a few hours ago, and will be headed back to Cali very early in the morning, and wanted to put a few thoughts about today's Camaro unveiling down.


First of all, anyone who calls the car retro really needs to be taken out and shot. It's NOT retro. It has a very very modern look that's almost futuristic. If some bozo want's to say a traditional grill is retro, so be it. If he calls the car retro, he's a moron. The proportions of the car are amazing. It's 79 inches wide, 53 tall, and only about 186" long. The skin of the car is sculptured and curved at the same time. Seeing the car in person gives it a feeling it was chisled by the same people who did Corvette... which it is. It's not retro. Get over it.


Second, it's not a car that's going to make everyone here happy. Hard core, dyed in the wool Camaro fans who have been wet nursed on and bleed 4th gen Camaros (maybe even 3rd gen) are going to yell as if they've been kicked below the belt. The ones who don't have a 4th gen and are still in high school are going to throw all types of vulgar words at it, and the ones who do have one and aren't are going to complain loudly. But I didn't hear a bad word about the car at the unveiling, or the 45 minutes to an hour we stuck around afterwards. Keeping in mind this was a press event, with invited guests of the various competing automakers, hearing words like "Awesome", "Mean", "Homerun", and "You gotta see this!" (some older suit on a cell phone) is clearly the result of a car that's going to appeal to the people who were turned off by the 4th gen.


This brings me to my 3rd point. The car's appeal goes BEYOND the "engine-in-a-box", "4-passenger-Corvette-lookalike" guys who are still in denial that the last Camaro failed to a large degree due to people wanting a more liveable car. This car is certainly livable. It has a usable back seat (and like the Challenger, it has roll down rear windows), it has an improved seating position, it acknowledges that hatchbacks went out in the late 90s, and it seems more practical. I know there are still plenty of neanderthal slugheads whose brains tell them that women want something "cute", but women want something practical. The new Camaro, though not "cute" (it looks pretty nasty actually.... as in agressive!), is certainly practical. It's going to attract more women.


The next issue's a a bit critical. The Camaro's interior in drawings looked pretty dreadful. Now that I've seen it in person, I've changed my tune. It's a great looking interior. I really like the direction they went, but there's some things I have serious issues with. The guages in the console look cool, but I'd probally be a little irritated having to look next to my right kneecap to tell if I'm running out of gas or if my engine's running too hot. Judging by everyone else in attendance, I suspect they feel the same way. Those guages [/b]MUST[/b] be up in front of the person. A few rarely checked guages such as oil pressure, vacuum, and amps might get away with being down there. But fuel and temp need to be up there with the speedo and tach.

The details of the concept's interior was impressive. The seat stitching, the dash, and the door interiors were impressive. And have zilch chance of reaching production. However, it would be a disaster if GM went Mustang's route and used cheap hard plastic on dash, doors, and 4the gen level appearence on the seating. Mustang can get away with it because the interior is so almost overdesigned that it compensates for this. The Camaro's interior is basically selling simplicity. Use cheap materials in a simple interior, you're going to have a stark cheap interior. GM, don't let your outsourcing people screw this up by going with the cheapest way possible. Anything less than the level I saw in Lecerne and the gig's up.


Finally, while the GTO initially looked much bigger than it really is, the Camaro looks even bigger than it really is. I have a profile shot on video, and the car looks incredibly long. But on the press kit, it's length is barely longer than the last Mustang. The car's width (79") doesn't help. But the car's actually very well proportioned.


Overall, I think the car's right. It looks right, it has the right stance, it has Camaro "DNA" as Scott likes to call it, and it actually shows GM design coming out of the box and actually designing something that's not boring, but doesn't stretch into weirdness or overkill either. Outside of the forementioned console guages, the fear that the attractive looking, simple designed interior is going look like it belongs in a 1989 Hyundai when it reaches production, and the width (you gotta admit, 79" IS pretty @*&%$#@ wide), this car has the potential to finally give the Mustang a great fight, and possibly win!

But at the same time, this is also a car with the very real potential of going either very very right, or very very wrong between now and the time it hits the streets. It all depends on how much GM skimps on materials to cut costs and how long GM takes getting this car on the road. A hair too far on either one, and I don't think it's going to be pleasant.

For us or for GM.

"It's 79 inches wide, 53 tall, and only about 186" long" how do this compare to the size of the 4th gen? That was a nice looking engine does anyone know what that was? Man I can't wait for this to come out

I saw it at LA today and i must say it was awesome :bow: i went straight to chevrolet when the show opened hoping there *might* be a Camaro there. Looked at the tahoe then saw the Camaro in the distance. I practically ran to it :)

I personally dont see much that isnt fairly retro. Dont get me wrong it looks very modern but still fairly retro. Steve Kim, lead designer, even said they heavily focused on the 69 Camaro. I told him as an owner of 2 camaros i freaking love it and to convince whoever he needs to convince to build it! he said thats my job ;)

All in all very cool car. I wasnt able to see the interior because it was on a raised display.

but i want it built damnit!

I saw it at LA today and i must say it was awesome :bow: i went straight to chevrolet when the show opened hoping there *might* be a Camaro there. Looked at the tahoe then saw the Camaro in the distance. I practically ran to it :)

I personally dont see much that isnt fairly retro. Dont get me wrong it looks very modern but still fairly retro. Steve Kim, lead designer, even said they heavily focused on the 69 Camaro. I told him as an owner of 2 camaros i freaking love it and to convince whoever he needs to convince to build it! he said thats my job ;)

All in all very cool car. I wasnt able to see the interior because it was on a raised display.

but i want it built damnit!
Make sure to watch the archived Detriot unveil on GMtv. :yes: Leeann Tweeden was supplementing the sex appeal of the car to boot. :D

It was a pretty awesome production. I shed a tear it was such an emotional moment. :cool:

http://gmtv.feedroom.com/?fr_story=FEEDROOM128215

i woke up early after getting like no sleep to watch it live :D yes there was a lot of sex appeal there

Guy, good to meet you this weekend. This whole thing was so much fun, wasn't it?

I pretty much concur with all your observations, particularly re: the proportions. The car looks so much more put together in person than in the pictures. The elevated front 1/4 view they've been posting here and there online just doesn't do the car justice.

First of all, anyone who calls the car retro really needs to be taken out and shot. It's NOT retro. It has a very very modern look that's almost futuristic. If some bozo want's to say a traditional grill is retro, so be it. If he calls the car retro, he's a moron. The proportions of the car are amazing. It's 79 inches wide, 53 tall, and only about 186" long. The skin of the car is sculptured and curved at the same time. Seeing the car in person gives it a feeling it was chisled by the same people who did Corvette... which it is. It's not retro. Get over it.




Quick, kill everyone who has done a review of the car and don't forget the people who made the Chevrolet website. From what I have seen, heard, and read, Chevy doesn't mind that people think it is retro. I'm sure they don't want it to be dismissed as a total retro rip-off but it is quite clear that they don't mind the "connection" to the past.

Did you see or hear anything from people who are in the automotive press while you were there? It is crucial that they give it a good write-up.

The next issue's a a bit critical. The Camaro's interior in drawings looked pretty dreadful. Now that I've seen it in person, I've changed my tune. It's a great looking interior. I really like the direction they went, but there's some things I have serious issues with. The guages in the console look cool, but I'd probally be a little irritated having to look next to my right kneecap to tell if I'm running out of gas or if my engine's running too hot. Judging by everyone else in attendance, I suspect they feel the same way. Those guages [/b]MUST[/b] be up in front of the person. A few rarely checked guages such as oil pressure, vacuum, and amps might get away with being down there. But fuel and temp need to be up there with the speedo and tach.

The details of the concept's interior was impressive. The seat stitching, the dash, and the door interiors were impressive. And have zilch chance of reaching production. However, it would be a disaster if GM went Mustang's route and used cheap hard plastic on dash, doors, and 4the gen level appearence on the seating. Mustang can get away with it because the interior is so almost overdesigned that it compensates for this. The Camaro's interior is basically selling simplicity. Use cheap materials in a simple interior, you're going to have a stark cheap interior. GM, don't let your outsourcing people screw this up by going with the cheapest way possible. Anything less than the level I saw in Lecerne and the gig's up.



Excellent piece.

I don't mind the notion of creating a simple environment for the driver/passenger... but let's first make it ergonomically sound... especially for the driver. I don't know what the story isabout the divider between the main guages on the instrument panel... but I guess you said it best... just that I didn't think it was that bad!!!

This is my 4th post on what I see as dreadful instrumentation and dash console... I'll stop now but it could be disasterous for GM if they get it wrong... could you imagine the backlash from journalists at the car's launch? It could break the car before it even reaches the masses. :(

Guion...nice write up...pretty close to my own thoughts. It has retro queues in it but it is NOT a retro car. The interior kicks ass for a concept "wow, gee whiz" factor. I know it won't make production as is but I wouldn't want it to be too far off the concept's general idea. As for the LA red car it doesn't have an interior..it's just a fiberglass shell. The motor in the Detroit car is an LS2 with DOD putting out 400HP. I haven't seen the engine pics and they didn't pop the hood while I was there. The nose scoop is my only complaint about the exterior styling. It doesn't work with the cowl hood. Other than that the car is just plain MEAN looking. I WANT ONE NOW!!!

First thing my wife said when she saw the pics of the unvieling on this site - "What's that? Wow.. that's very futuristic.... I like it!". I told her it was the new Camaro Concept. Then as I scrolled down through the pics my wife saw the pic from the rear 2/3 view with the bulging rear fenders and commented how it "reminds me of an early Camaro, but it's very futuristic (that word again)"

Smart woman... she isn't a car freak at all, but she knows what a 1st gen Camaro is and can see it's heritage in this new car, yet she never metioned the word retro once. Not once!

BECAUSE IT'S NOT FREAKING RETRO!! ;)

Women comments...
My take is it will appeal to women that like a guy with some stubble. The rest might see it as too brutish. To take the analogy further, the new Mustang is more of a guy's guy. Women want to be with them, men wan to BE them. There's more broad (no pun... :) ) appeal there.

Interior comments....
The layout is no good with the center gages. The materials, color scheme/matching and the overall presentation OTOH is superb.

Exterior comments...
The profile is right. Even if the front fender has a bit too much 3rd gen DNA to it. But the proportions are nice and trim, sporting. I really wish they used the '67 for inspiration here. The headlights and grill edges need to be pulled out and the center crease softened to a cresting curve. Thinking WAY far ahead, I imagine it would be a nightmare to actually get the squashed bugs/insects with all the nooks and crannies that front end has. The spoiler needs to be lowered a few inches and deepened slightly, actually making it USEFUL for creating a bit of down force at speed. The rear end would do better with slightly expressed rather than deeply depressed lights and the trunk lid could come down a little farther maybe incorporating the lights.

Overall, I'm impressed with the tight skin look of the car. Some people say it looks bloated/heavy but I don't see that. I see it as solid, athletic, sporting. In other words it looks lean and muscular instead of skinny (which is maybe what some of you were looking for??).

That's all I've got for now.

I'm tired of the "retro" crap being thrown around. I'm trying to wade through the 10 pages of BS about it on here now. It has QUEUES from the 1st gens but it's NOT retro at ALL. Similar profile but that's about it. My fiancee isn't a car person either and she really likes it and wants me to get one when my 02 is paid off(pending it's actually produced around 2007 or so). I didn't hear anyone at the show today complaining about it being retro. It's so hard to break new ground with cars these days since we have run the gamut from round to boxy to wedgy to jelly bean and everything inbetween. Anything that looks like a car used to years ago in profile is being automatically being labeled retro. You just can't win with some people.

It's retro, stop trying to convince people otherwise!

There was nothing but 1st Gens there, nothing but 1st Gens in the video, (both of which I took some offense to) and it was admitted that they looked mostly to the 1st Gens in design. Look at the car. Think about it LOL.

"It's 79 inches wide, 53 tall, and only about 186" long" how do this compare to the size of the 4th gen? That was a nice looking engine does anyone know what that was? Man I can't wait for this to come out

Concept: 79.6/53/186.2 wheelbase: 110.5
4th Gen: 74.1/51.8/193.5 wheelbase: 101.1

I want weight!

It's retro, stop trying to convince people otherwise!

There was nothing but 1st Gens there, nothing but 1st Gens in the video, (both of which I took some offense to) and it was admitted that they looked mostly to the 1st Gens in design. Look at the car. Think about it LOL.


Shhhhhh, you might get shot.

Retro? Maybe we should have a link to the video of Bob Lutz speaking with Joe White from the Wall Street Journal.

Bob Lutz said:

"We started out knowing we wanted to do a new Camaro(or maybe it's Camahro ;)), and obviously you pick the best one of the series. Which was the 69's and 70's, or the original shape. Which we never really improved upon. That was the starting point, but we were very mindful of the fact that we didn't want to do a retro car. We didn't want to do a copy of the original. Frankly, I think that some of our competitors repeated the past a little bit too much(c'mon Bob tell us how you really feel :D). What our goal was, and Rick Wagoner really pushed us in this direction, was to do a thoroughly modern car. That is a beautiful and contemporary car in its own right, and then try to superimpose onto that the essence of a '69 Camaro. And that is an entirely different thing than doing a renewed version of a '69."

Lutz did say that for production the front wheels would shrink to 19's or 20's.

He also said they would want to base price it as close to $20k as possible, and sell between 100k-150k units/year("Similar to the Mustang" is what Lutz said). The "top V8" should come in right below $30k, or just right above it.

Lutz also said us Camaro enthusiasts have been "hounding them for years". :D :thumb: And that we obviously want the availability of a V8 and manual transmission.

Just some more info from the wonderful unveiling of our new Camaro.
:cool:

That car is totally retro! What are you talking about, I have owned both a '67 and a '68, and when I see that concept, I see styling similarities and almost identical areas all over, especially the shape and angle of the c-pillar and rear fender.

The '05 mustang is a retro, I also own two '66 mustangs and the extreme similarities are there to. GM saw what a hit the new mustang is and knew that was the way to bring back the camaro.

What is wrong with something being retro?

"Retro: A fashion, decor, design, or style reminiscent of things past." (Websters)

Do you people not know how to use a dictionary???????

That gauge cluster is horrible looking.

What is wrong with something being retro?

"Retro: A fashion, decor, design, or style reminiscent of things past." (Websters)

Do you people not know how to use a dictionary???????

That gauge cluster is horrible looking.

Run and put on your bullet proof vest!!!:D

You need to go with the flow man, us Camaro/Pro-GM guys want to say that its' not retro so we won't look like copy cats!!;)

Run and put on your bullet proof vest!!!:D

You need to go with the flow man, us Camaro/Pro-GM guys want to say that its' not retro so we won't look like copy cats!!;)

LOL - Who cares? Chevy copied Ford with the Camaro in '67 as they saw obviously by the record breaking sales of the mustang, that the sports car/grocery getter was very popular. You can see some subtle styling similarities between the stang and camaro. Why not copy fords idea again? I have said it for a few years, if chevy had any hope of bringing back the camaro they have to make a retro version. I love the look of the old cars, but to keep up with safety/emissions(aerodynamics) requirements, there are sacrifices that have to be made as far as original styling goes. Now all the baby boomers that remember their parents first sports car in the 60's can go out and buy their own updated version.

To me retro is a good thing, as my work is based in hot rods and race cars, the early Camaros are a thing of beauty.

I am a Ford/Chevy guy, I own and love both. I will just have to band with those of you who share a common hatred of Mopars....

My inital thought.... Damn that's ugly, leave the camaro dead. My last thought...See inital thought.

My inital thought.... Damn that's ugly, leave the camaro dead. My last thought...See inital thought.

:lol: That's funny. Those were my thoughts also. I was looking for something futuristic, not retro. George Jetson will have to wait a while till all this retro stuff plays out and eventually fades away (Till the baby boomers all die off?)
But the new/retro design does kinda look cool. I've been looking at it all day. At first I was horrified! Then digusted. Now I'm just mildly amused by the boxy retro look. I think I will have to see one in person to make up my mind.

I think the main thing that will help me decide what to buy is price and how many thousands of dollars it will take to finish the darn car (Dual exhaust, headers, new intakes or air lids, suspension parts, ect...) Or ,will it be more cost effective to just buy an old 2002 SS and fix it up.

I think I will lovingly nickname the new 5th gen Camaro "The Big Ugly Box". :D

:lol: That's funny. Those were my thoughts also. I was looking for something futuristic, not retro. George Jetson will have to wait a while till all this retro stuff plays out and eventually fades away (Till the baby boomers all die off?)
But the new/retro design does kinda look cool. I've been looking at it all day. At first I was horrified! Then digusted. Now I'm just mildly amused by the boxy retro look. I think I will have to see one in person to make up my mind.

I think the main thing that will help me decide what to buy is price and how many thousands of dollars it will take to finish the darn car (Dual exhaust, headers, new intakes or air lids, suspension parts, ect...) Or ,will it be more cost effective to just buy an old 2002 SS and fix it up.

I think I will lovingly nickname the new 5th gen Camaro "The Big Ugly Box". :D
I've got a better one. THE OWL (http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=421573).

First of all, anyone who calls the car retro really needs to be taken out and shot. It's NOT retro. It has a very very modern look that's almost futuristic.
I agree with most of your points guionM. But the one above... while I do agree it's very modern and even futuristic... I guess I will have to step into the firing squad line with Sneaky Neil since I do think the car has some retro in it. I believe it's "retro done right"... but retro nonetheless.

I agree about the interior too. I love the seats (it struck me too, wouldn't it be cool if the rear quarter windows automatically went down every time you tilted the front seat backs forward with the car stationary, to help with rear seat ingress?). But the IP is way out there and they missed an opportunity with that. There was a chance, to show something modern and useful, with touches of the old motif. That's not what I saw. The speedo and tach are barely legible - granted I realize it's only a concept - and the console gauges, well ideas like that are definitely best left back in the 1960's. The old-school dash has been one of my main beefs with the 05 Mustang since day one - its gauges are very difficult to read while driving. The good news, for both the Camaro and the Mustang, is that gauges are *relatively* inexpensive for the maker to change. Here is one area where the new Challenger shines - DCX was bold enough to inject a modern DIC right into the cluster of the concept (the 5Gen Camaro concept appears to have a tiny one too but it's not a 'major instrument', more of a postage stamp - deal). Of the three, the Challenger so far has the best IP, IMHO, by a small margin.

I agree with most of your points guionM. But the one above... while I do agree it's very modern and even futuristic... I guess I will have to step into the firing squad line with Sneaky Neil since I do think the car has some retro in it. I believe it's "retro done right"... but retro nonetheless.

Was tired when I wrote last night.

Maybe "shot" was too strong.

The car has retro cues, but it's put together in a very futuristic way. Perhaps it doesn't carry well in pictures.

Some people won't like the looks of it, but of all the things you can say about the car, in person it simply isn't "retro".

The thing has a very Cadillacesque styling quality to it in person, I guess that doesn't show up in pictures, because that thought never occured to me in the pix I saw before the show. But after seeing it in person, it was the first thing that occured to me. Sure it's got things the 67's had, like....windows...and C pilars (and the C pilar is much more swept back than the 1st gens was, I guess it doesn't show in pix), but it is a VERY MODERN design in person. The Challenger down the hall looked like it made the wrong turn at a Mopar Reunion when this thing rolled out, and the Dodge guy said as much too!

There's a difference between RETRO and HERITAGE styling. I believe the concept has the latter.

There's a difference between RETRO and HERITAGE styling. I believe the concept has the latter.
We need a new word to define it to satisfy everybody. I shall call it...Retrage. Or Hetro. Or...

It is futuristic. Retro? Depends how wide you want to define the term.

However...

...it certainly would look very out of place if you took it back to 1968, but would probably fit in a bit better if you took it forward to 2068.

Ehh I like it, How many "futuristic" cars have we seen as "concept" that never made it anywhere, too many to list. If you go to bold you'll scare off the originaly muscle car owners. If I wanted my Camaro to look something like a 350z or some retarded import tuner I'd buy one of those. I want a real American Muscle Car, not a futuristic space mobile. Look what dodge did to the Charger...hmm yea...let's not destroy another American Icon

Futuristic eh? Cool! :)