Box idea

What do you guys think of this, Someone posted a rear seat delete they have done.. I have a convertible so im thinking bout putting speakers in the rear along with my bottle. For the bottom im going to make it out of fiberglass the rest will be out of wood, unless I fiure out howto use fiberglass better
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/582000-582999/582904_47_full.gif

fyi, rear-seat deletes look awful, and ruin any passenger abilities you ever had...

and, to top it all off... subs sound like crap in the back seat... the box is too close to you. even on the rear deck above the gas tank, it's too dang close...

it's gotta be in the well, and preferrably rear-firing for the biggest bass 'effect' possible.

most elect to have hatch-firing sub boxes...

now if you are doing this because the convertible won't allow you any other way of making a box... I'd still strongly suggest looking into different mounting locations... I don't really know the layout differences in the convertible, but trust me when I tell you that rear seat boxes are at very least, lacking in every aspect...

plus your stuff will most definitely get stolen...

^ not necessarily. I have 2 subs mounted on the gas tank hump and it sounds great. And if you're worried about losing passenger space in the rear seats, you need to stop hanging out with midgets. There's not really much room back there to begin with. As for how it looks, that's pretty much a completely subjective opinion. I like how my back seats look and don't like the rear seat delete, but that's just my opinion. Then again, with a nice big nitrous bottle back there it would probably look a lot better! :D If you are going to go with a rear seat box, you should seriously consider a ported or bandpass box as those will give you a better bass response than a sealed box firing straight up from that position. ESPECIALLY with that convertible roof being the surface it's going to reflect off of. As for your stuff getting stolen, well, that kind of depends. A wood box with speakers that big will be big and heavy. Bolted down correctly you shouldn't have a problem. Get your windows tinted and don't park in da 'hood.

Abe

That is very similar to the setup that I'm building currently.

I've had my subs in the rear where the rear seat was for the past summer, and atleast with mine, the ones I'm using (Adire Audio Brahma MKII 10", pair in .75cuft enclosures), they are louder than a pair of s12L7 kickers in a Subthump Deep-well enclosure.

In my case, the rear seat area is trully useless due to the roll bar, not to mention no one can ever fit there unless you're a double amputee.

My NX Bottles are mounted on the deck instead of near the subs, where my amps are mounted.

As for being stolen, I'd love to see someone steal anything out of the car with 3 140db sirens going off and no one noticing anything.

alarms don't stop anyone anymore... it would take them a few seconds to disable those sirens.

now, from a musically-accurate point-of-view... the rear well is the absolute-best location for a subwoofer box. No question about it. Now if you have no other option, then go for the back seat. I wouldn't port it upwards though, as ports tend to sound 'boomy,' or 'farty.' this is an inherent problem with these enclosures, and even high-end home theatre subwoofers do this... which is why you don't sit one foot away from the enclosure.

my friend has a ford ranger extended cab, and he pulled his back seats the same way you guys are talking about... he is running a 1.5cuft per side dual 15"... down-firing sealed box... down-firing is the ONLY way you will get decent bass from the back seat... and remember, if you do go ported... you actually need a much LARGER box than with sealed... most people don't seem to realize that.

one thing to always remember... is it doesn't matter how loud your siren is, or how heavy your subs are, or how well you bolted them down... if it's in plain sight, people will steal them...

someone broke into my firebird and stole a dual 12" sealed well box... with the subs installed, the box weighed a good 100lbs.. and the car was parked at the mechanic, in a fenced-off yard, guarded by two pitbulls.... somehow a Mexican, about 20 years old (he was later caught again stealing from this place,) was able to climb over a 7ft barbed-wire fence, WITH my subs, and amplifiers...

so don't pretend like having heavy stuff, or loud alarms will do jack.

And no offense TransAmAbe... your rear-hump subwoofer box may have sounded great... but if you were to put those same exact subs in a full well box... you'd be pleasantly surprised at the difference... you really just can't get enough airspace in such a small box... and to top it off, the further away the woofer is from your face, the 'deeper' the bass will sound to your ears. It all has to do with the acoustics of the car, and low-frequency sound waves in general.

Don't worry, it takes a lot more than that to offend me. And you are right, that putting a sub in an enclosure at the bottom of the well is going to get the best bass response, and if the system is set up for it, the most accurate music reproduction. However, for me, I wanted to keep my T-tops and the holder in the stock location. I like how my system is set up, and it's still plenty loud at highway speeds with the T-tops off. Which is what matters to me. Could I get a couple more dB's out of what I have? Sure. But I am very happy with how my stereo sounds and I like the way it looks as well. What I'm saying is that a large part of the way most people design their car stereo and set up their cars in general is subjective. Mr. Bong asked for opinions, I'm giving mine also.

And FYI: not all subs use some magic formula for sealed enclosure volume. My subs (Kicker S10d's) recommend no larger than .66 sealed cubic feet. Which there is room for and then some on the gas tank hump.

As far as security goes, use common sense. Endo: your 'vert is going to be more susceptible to the "smash and grab" type thief as they could just cut through your top. So maybe one of those nifty proximity alarms should be in your car's future. Or toss a blanket or something over your stuff if you're not going to be near the car.

Abe

Heh, about the Kicker's saying no more than .66cuft... well, I don't care what the manual/specs say... the bigger the better... unless you are making it the size of a bedroom...

my friend has the Kicker CompVR CVR15s in his ranger, with 3cuft total... and this was his second box attempt... the first was probably about half the size (roughly what you claim yours is,) and I notice a significant difference.

Really it all comes down to what you like... and I understand the t-top situation... I am actually going to have to come up with a solution myself. I used to drive a 1990 Firebird up until a month ago, when I got the 2000 WS6... and the t-tops simply stored in a black vinyl bag that strapped down to the rear hump. I just moved the hooks, and strapped it to the top of my dual-15" box... worked perfectly...

now I have to deal with these 4th gen t-tops... and I may have to relocate that plastic block at the bottom of the well (like maybe mount it to the top of a dual 15" sub box,) so I can still use the t-tops..

one thing you'll notice is that putting t-tops, (or anything,) over the subwoofers really doesn't affect the sound that much...

I tried a rear-facing hump box, hatch-facing hump box, a hatch-firing well box, and even a rear-facing well box.. by far, the most bass was had from the rear-facing well box... also the most rattles, but I used the same subwoofer for each enclosure...

endobong... is there no room for those subthump stealth 10" enclosures in the back of your car? I'm not super-familiar with the way convertibles are different...

Why can't you use one of those 'curtain shade' things that cover the back of some cars cargo areas but use it to pull over the rear seat? Just find something wide enough and the right color and fab something to hold it behind the front seats. It could be mounted at the top behind where the back of the seat would have locked in. I would think it would provide some good cover and not look too bad in the process.

Why can't you use one of those 'curtain shade' things that cover the back of some cars cargo areas but use it to pull over the rear seat? Just find something wide enough and the right color and fab something to hold it behind the front seats. It could be mounted at the top behind where the back of the seat would have locked in. I would think it would provide some good cover and not look too bad in the process.
I think that would be pretty obvious that you're trying to hide something under it. Crooks may be stupid but I don't think they're that stupid.

it could be but it would be pretty obvious if it right in plain sight on a vert no less wouldn't it? Just throwing an idea out there.

Chuck, your idea is not that terrible. With some dark tint it could work pretty well. You could probably fab one of those covers up pretty easily and inexpensively.

Scrappy: if you think you know more than the engineers at Stillwater Designs, go for it. I will continue to keep my drivers in a .66 cubic foot or less enclosure. Kicker CompVR's are not the same as the Solobaric's. And according to Stillwater Designs, the CVR15's are supposed to have 1.8 cubic feet for sealed enclosures. I have 10" subs. So comparing the enclosure size of your friend's 15" subs is not really a good comparison. And tell your friend that he's still missing about another .3 cubic feet per driver. But, you know, that's according to Stillwater Designs, and you don't care what manuals say. :rolleyes:

Abe

you're right... he just couldn't fit anymore into his ranger...

if he had the space, he'd go with a larger box...

the more space you give the woofer, the 'boomier' it will sound, as well as it will sound deeper... you you will lose a little bit of 'snappiness'...

and on the subject of the convertible... is there no trunk whatsoever???

you're right... he just couldn't fit anymore into his ranger...

if he had the space, he'd go with a larger box...

the more space you give the woofer, the 'boomier' it will sound, as well as it will sound deeper... you you will lose a little bit of 'snappiness'...

and on the subject of the convertible... is there no trunk whatsoever???

Yup, and guess what that boominess means... bad sound quality... Personally, I'll stick with my Brahma's in a .75cf sealed enclosure each, with 1500Wrms going to each one. They hit extremely hard, and are crystal clear in reproducing just about anything.

If I wanted a SPL car, I'll just grab one 15" XXX or Brahma, and put it in a folded horn enclosure and just destroy just about anyone/thing when it comes to loudness, but in all honestly, for music reproduction it wouldn't be that great.

What do you guys think of this, Someone posted a rear seat delete they have done.. I have a convertible so im thinking bout putting speakers in the rear along with my bottle. For the bottom im going to make it out of fiberglass the rest will be out of wood, unless I fiure out howto use fiberglass better...

The trunk is not a good spot for the sub in a convertible, so I went with the rear seat option. I made a small ported box that drops in behind the drivers seat, and had a professional speaker builder calculate the port dimensions for me - the sound quality is great.

stealth box for convertible (http://www3.telus.net/acarnut/subwoofer.htm)

The box can be lifted out if you need to use the rear seats, and it doesn't get much 'stealthier' than this.

I suggest trying a few small fiberglass projects first, to see how it works.

DaveH

Yup, and guess what that boominess means... bad sound quality... Personally, I'll stick with my Brahma's in a .75cf sealed enclosure each, with 1500Wrms going to each one. They hit extremely hard, and are crystal clear in reproducing just about anything.

If I wanted a SPL car, I'll just grab one 15" XXX or Brahma, and put it in a folded horn enclosure and just destroy just about anyone/thing when it comes to loudness, but in all honestly, for music reproduction it wouldn't be that great.

Hey man where did you find your brahmas and what size is it/are they?

I'm thinking of switching over to two 15" brahmas... from my two 15" PPI C2s...


also, just in general, the bigger the box, the deeper the bass... now in the case of the Brahmas... they kick serious ass no matter what you do, as long as you aren't insane with the box in either direction... man I lose sleep thinking of Brahmas at night... amazing stuff there...

I got mine 2 summers ago, when they were still MKII's, I believe the MKIII's or MKIV's are out now.

I'm running 2 10" ones right now. They weigh 40#'s each and have over 2" of travel from Xmax to Xmax.

2 15" brahma's in a properly tuned enclosure running about 800-1000Wrms should push most cars into the 150-160 range without an issue. But musically wise, at that volume/enclosure design, it will be a poor music reproducing install, and there will be no such thing as tight bass.

you think the bass would be sloppy simply because the woofers are 15"s?

because I have had many 15's and they sure as hell don't sound sloppy... compared to many different 12s and whatnot...

No, not just because they are 15's, because in that large of an enclosure the box-induced suspension is skewing the "Q" factor of the enclosure. The "ideal" SQ Q factor of .707 is achieved with a small enclosure with the Brahama's. The larger enclosure loosens up the travel/reaction of the subwoofer.

All basics of enclosure design.

Typically the larger the enclosure the sloppier the bass when compared to an enclosure that matches the subwoofer's specifications. This is even more evident with ported/vented enclosures. Thus the reason you see very few ported/vented enclosures in systems that are setup for Sound Quality.

but are you saying that the 15" brahmas in our car would be musically inaccurate?

All depends on the enclosure. In a well-style enclosure, sealed with the recommended volume and power, they would absolutly rock just about anything and should sound great.

Put them in a larger ported enclosure, and they will be even louger, but they will be less accurate than in a sealed enclosure.

This is always the big tradeoff from SQ to SPL; and finding a balance that's good for the listener. The SQL subs, like the Brahma, W7, and XXX are bluring the lines even more. They get LOUD in smaller sealed enclosure due to the extreme Xmax travel that they have; but they still stay linear in their movement throughtout the entire range of travel; something rare in the industry.