Original '84 Z28 w/ L69 is it worth keeping and upgrading?

I have an all original 140K miles, 1984 Z28 with the H.O. 5.0 L69 (with all emissions crap) and a newly rebuilt/beefed-up 700R4. I have seen a lot of articles about 300+hp mods for the L69, but is it worth beefing up or should I swap in an LT1 or 400ci engine etc.

Note: My exhaust system is really bad, so before I dump a bunch of money into a new one I first need to decide what SBC or Big Block may be dropped into my engine bay (see below).

Choice #1: I have a buddy that wants to sell me an LT1 he pulled out of an '94-'96 Impala ($350), and it is complete with all acc., computer, and wiring.

Choice #2: My Father-in-law has a 400ci engine (complete) that he is willing to part with also (free).

Choices choices ... but I want good fuel economy (20+mpg), and I'm on a tight budget. My wife really really really hates my money pit (new paint and body panels (northern car), mostly new interior, timing chain, tires, T-Top seals, etc. $$$$).
Thanks.

It's all about what you the car to look like when your done, so whatever you decide just remember you will always go over your budget. And if I where you I'd go for the LT! swap!

Do the LTI swap. That would kick ARSE! Especially for only 350 bucks! Hell I'll take the motor for that!

^Ya I was just about to go on a built-305 spree, but then I saw the words "LT1" and "350$" used in the same sentence so I say go LT1 :cool:

Avoid the B body LT1, it had iron heads and a smaller cam producing a bit less hp. Since the 400 is free, get the block machined and drop in a 4" crank and have a 427. :bow:

Oh double-sh*t.. I didn't realize the 400 was FREE and COMPLETE. This thread is a joke; drop that 400 in and call it a day man! :D

LT1 400 LT1 400
LT1 400 LT1 FREE 400

Way I see it you only have one choice!:yes:

Is that a 400ci sbc that he's giving you? If so, you'll want to get that. Dollar for dollar it will destroy that LT1, and it will be a much easier swap. Toss a nice Holley vac. secondary on top, and you'll have decent milage with the overdrive in the 700R4.

- Justin

I would go with the 400. I would think it will be set up a lot easier than puttng the LT1 in and I would also think that here would be more parts potential for the 400 than the LT1.

I like the idea of the 427 u even a 400 small block Chevy is pretty cool.

I would go with the 400. I would think it will be set up a lot easier than puttng the LT1 in and I would also think that here would be more parts potential for the 400 than the LT1.

I like the idea of the 427 u even a 400 small block Chevy is pretty cool.

400s kick so much ass if built properly (right gaskets, steam holes drilled). I just brought up the 427 thing because I'm obsessed with them.

Damn I just noticed you are from Timmins, I bet you have long ass winters. One of my best friends lives in Sudbury.

Yeah, the 400ci engine was my first choice, but then I had flashbacks of my mothers old '77 Trans Am with the 6.6 liter only getting 10mpg, and then doubt started to set in my mind. I know the Impala LT1 would get between 18-28 mpg (I do mostly highway miles). The car has been a hobby, but it is about to be my daily driver/weekend cruise car.

Someone told me that the 400 Big Block (not sbc) will not just "drop in". That I will need to change a lot of parts to make the Big Block drop into my engine bay, i.e. buy motor mount adapters, trans adapter, etc. I'm know my way around a car, but I've never done an engine swap.

I believe it came out of a '70 or '71 Chevelle or El Camino. I will ask my wife's Step Dad, the holder of the engine. It was originally going to be dropped into a Modified, but the rules changed, and now he has to run a 358ci.

A 400 is a SBC, and was available in Chevelles. There were 396 big blocks that actually displaced 402 CI, but I don't know of a "400 big block".

You're right. Now I've read a lot of Chevy-Hi-Po and Hot Rod Magazine stuff on Q-Jets being reliable and stuff, but why should I consider keeping that carb over the carb that is on 400? Would there be a big difference in fuel economy? Does the Q-Jet have to retain its sensors?

Hey, 91-Z28, I just saw your video ... THAT IS WHAT I WANT MY Z28 TO DO!!! I've tried to make it a sleeper in appearance, but yeah man, I want to shred rubber and have cars like my wifes Focus (which she is slowly upgrading) eat my smoke and rubber chunks.

Then that 400 is right up your alley, they make 450hp look easy, even without a huge cam.

The Q-Jet is GREAT if you want to keep GREAT fuel efficiency. There is a guy on this board that can help you tune it (just do a search for the sentence "the last remaining q-jet tuner on earth" and you will find him..), he is AWESOME with them :)

ok,for starters you want mileage and cheap.well then totally forget the big block period.besies if you notice big blocks arent the craze these days since you can get over 400 hp from a small block.so thats done
400,,ummmmmmmmmm well you want mileage,dont expect much ,actually a loss probably.also what kind of 400 you getting for free?a stock plain jane that needs rebuilding?then i wouldnt,its not worth it.forget throwing a stroker crank in it if your on a budget.oh yeah a crank,but dont forget machining the block cost,oh yeah new rods required and guess what new pistons..so a stroker out.
a 400 sbc ok if its a good base,but now you want to run your stock exhaust on there????probably not...so theres some cost facotrs involved here
lt1,wel if you can get it for 350 thats not bad,a better engine than the older sbcs and being fuel injected id go with that for power and mileage,that engine can pull down well over 20 mpg....swap shouldnt be too tough since the basic block design and dimensions are close to your 305.
but on another light,youneed to say how much you serioulsy have to put into this.if you got rust issues also thats not cheap...maybe say screw this car and look for a cleaner southern car or possibly a lower mileage ls1 4th gen??????????
dont get me wrong,i appreciate the art and the concept of building a car etc,but i hate seeing guys dumoing cash into what amounts to beaters only to se their cash run out on them and they either go unfinsihed or they continue to drive them in worse shape then when they started.we all know the kind of guys im talking about

Me and my wife bought the car (for me) after lusting for one since I was a kid in the 80's ... I talked the guy down to $400 and that included him deliverying it to my house - 30 miles away. Some people wanted a Knight Rider clone, I wanted a 3rd Gen Z28.

The car WAS a rust bucket. When I bought the car it ran good, but needed minor mechanical repairs so I replaced the timing chain (it was very loose), the radiator (with a freakin' stock brass/copper one), all new coolant and vacuum hoses, K&N air filter for my dual snorkel intake, new tires, battery, alternator, belts, lights, headliner, T-Top seals, factory hubs (3 were missing), and a few other parts I'm forgetting.

A few months later we dove into body work ... it took all my income tax money, and then some but the floors were repaired, new quarters, new fender, replaced the hood, carpet, and completely changed the color of the car (door jams and all). (I really love my Z) A few freakin' months later my tranny went out. My buddy at the local trans shop hooked me up - really cheap, and he beefed up my 700R4 too. My exhaust is now popping leaks through rust holes, so before I use this years income tax to replace it, I want to ensure I buy a system for the engine that will be in the car in the future.

The car is garaged until the exhaust issue is fixed. When I say I want the cheap way out I mean cheap ... the money warden (wife) may let me have $1K to spend on everything! Exhaust, engine swap (if I do it).

I know, I know, I have spent way too much time and money on this car. I am Z Crazy. Help. Thanks.

Thanks for the Last Remaining Q-Jet guys info.

The 400ci engine is already built for racing, complete with Holley carb, distributor, and collectors ... which I couldn't even dream about using. It was going to be dropped into either a Hobby Stock or Modified, but the rules changed, and the size limits are down to 358ci. He races at tracks hear in up-state NY (Watertown area). In those cars it average, I dunno know, between 4-8 mpg? I just wondered if street driving, and a Q-jet could make it hit 20mpg or better.

This summer, when gas prices hit $3.75/gal that opened my eyes, and has made me re-think (hundreds of times) which engine should I go with ... 190hp 305 (in stock trim - 190hp when it was new), 260hp LT1 (from '94-'96 Impala), or 400ci? I forgot to add that the LT1 came from a wrecked car, which shouldn't really matter. Also, the car is exempt from a lot of states emissions regs, beacuse it is a OEM carb'ed car ... no sniffer test. The Chevy dealer just asked to see the Cat, but all my stuff is still installed (A.I.R. pump and all) ... for now.

84CamaroL69,

1) don't even consider a big block if your on a budget.
2) only concider the 400 if the compression is low enough for pump gas. Also make sure it doesn't have too big a cam in it. HP is nice but you want TQ for the street, not a 7000 RPM HP beast. I'm not familar with track engines so you might check this out. Remember when you go for smog they also do a visual so you might need the 305 smog stuff on the 400. And is the LT1 a legal smog swap?
3) I have some headers for a '84 Camaro, Hooker Long Tubes but they are really rusty. But they are 1 3/4" primaries with 3" collectors. You'd want to check to see if these work with whatever combo you pick. The primaries might be to big.
hope this helps ya, Bill

dont do anythign right now hoss,,,lt1 will nickel and dime you and before you know it youll be justifing this cost aND THIS AND NEXT THING YOU KNOW YOUR 1000 DOLLAR BUDGET IS MORELIKE 2500.......IT ALL ADS UP FAST.HECK WHATS A DECENT EXHAUST SYSTEM GOING TO RUN YOU?CUOPLE HUNDRED MIN...
THE 400 ,SOUNDS WAY TO RADICAL FOR THE STREET.LIKE THE PREVIOUS POST STATED,IT PROBABLY WONT WORK WITH YOUR SET UP W/O CHANGING MORE PARTS WHICH WILL KILL THE BUDGET.
MIGHT WANT TO JUST LOOK AT A MILD 350 LONG BLOCK,ALREADY REBUILT,SAY 350-400 HP.DROP IT IN AND JUST ENJOY CRUISING...THATS PROBABLY GOING TO GET YOU CLOSE TO YOUR BUDGET.

camaro,i aint preaching here bu tthink about what you want to do here,you got a solid right already,get a rebuilt 350 and enjoy.forget all this other crap.based on your earlier post you have a wife and kid)s) who im sure would rather find a better use of the money than dumping it into a car that they get nothing out of.i mean you already blew last years income tax check on it so is it fair to dump this years check? imean i hope and i really mean it i hope that the family comes first befor eany car,regardless of what it is or "how much it means" to someone.the familty should come first.
if its speed your looking fo rforget it.enjoy what you have and the rumble of a v8.rememebr theres always always someone faster than you and youll never be the fastest regardless of how much u try.so knowing that what try to go faster than your budget allows???say you run 14.2 right now,is a 13.8 going to feel that much difference or make a whle heck of a lot of difference in your life?? lets think here boys.
i have nothing against building up a car,heck im doing it from the ground up but the difference here is my budget allows for it where as yours does not seem to allow for it right now and we need to keep things in perspective and prioritize things.......
you aint doing any of those swaps for under 1000,and the 400,if you get more than 10 mpg with it the way it sits right now your a miracle worker.look for a nice rebuilt 350 or a 83 stroker with a cast crank.no forged crank needed...find a nice used header and exhaust and be happy ,even this will run you 1500..
i know theres guys going to respond,i dropped a 454 in for 250 bucks...ok right...........you get what you pay for

You are probably right about the cost. The whole thing started from my cat, intermediate pipe, and muffler all needing to be replaced, and it just kept growing from there ... my in-laws and buddies are all offering more muscle, and the idea of smoking tires and that took over my reality. Not to mention adding alot of power would keep my wifes hands of the steering wheel. She likes to take over my sporty cars, and leave me with the "family car."

So where do I go from here? I guess I will shop around for a universal SBC exhaust ... rated up to 350hp? One that will fit my L69 and also Gen 1-4? SBC so I will have options don the road. I've seen the Edelbrock headers, but the $300-400 price tag made me sick, ebay here I come ... and I've seen cats for $125, and cat-back systems for $200. Lastly, I guess the reasonable thing to do will be to save up for a 350ci engine that I can afford to build or buy.

Ultimately, the car is about to be our second "dependable" car, and weekend cruiser for the parents "fun time." Thanks. You know what's funny, you sound like my buddy in Nashville.

The only question I have left is would it be worth while for me to buy the LT1, and replace the rings, seals, etc. myself, and change it over to a carb'ed motor?

Hi Anthony.

I have an '84 ex-L69 Trans Am, and before the Minirammed 385 went in this year, I ran my original L69 to a best of 14.04 @ 101 MPH, and it dynoed at 262 RWHP, which is about 308 HP at the crank. My total expenditure on the 305 was nine hundred bucks, not counting the exhaust.

Now, as for the race 400 engine, which is what I'd get:
1) The shortblock doesnt make the power. The heads and valvetrain make the power. Luckily a 400 bolts up to your 305 engine accessories and your rebuilt 700R4.

2) THe 400 also can run on your computer controlled Quadrajet.

3) If the engine has a sane compression ratio of 10.25:1 or less, you can put street manners back into it by pulling the cam and installing a street friendly cam, such as the Comp Cams XE254H. Or if you really want cheap, buy a Summit cam/lifter combo with 212 to 218 degrees of duration at .050", and a lobe separation angle of 110 or 112 degrees. That cam will give you lots of vacuum signal for the carb and improve the gas mileage.

4) Buy either a Hooker cat-back with Hooker headers, or else get the Hooker cat-back and some Edelbrock headers. All up, the exhaust will be $650 total, leaving you $150 for the cam swap. Now all you need (and you dont need it right away) is a good aftermarket manifold for some great torque. I think you might find one for $200, maybe cheaper if you buy a used one from the classifieds on this board. So, for $1000 you'll have your new motor that should idle good and make a bunch of torque (up to 5000 RPM) to have fun with.

That's what I'd do if I were you.

your totally underestimating cost and i don tthink he wants t opiece an engine together slowly,i think he would rather be driving it asap.
you yourself said yours was 900 minus exhaust and you also said 650 for exhaust,well to me thats 1500,well above his budget.
ok,you want to drop this 400 in?what kinda power we talking now?400 horse maybe or close to it?rebuilt or not,if its just a stock rebuild you think the 700 r4 will hold up long?and lets nottalk about the pathetic 10 bolt under there.heck i broke a tooth of my stock ring with a stock worn out lg4 engine,so should he now upgrade the rear? a big ass motor aint no good if theres no power going to the ground.
i just want him to sit down and analize what he wants and really NEEDS,sur ewed all like 1000 hp z28s that idle at 750 and 25 mpg,but who can afford that? buy what youcan afford and make the most if if and enjoy the car for what it is.

Anthony, if the 400 is FREE, then it's free. My $900 included $460 in cylinder head work, plus a complete valvetrain, intake, and gasket set.

I see it thus:

400 engine: FREE
Cam, lifters, maybe less agressive springs: $210
oilpan, timing chain, intake gasket kit: $75
Exhaust & headers: $650

Reuse existing engine accessories, transmission, etcetera.

The cost comes to about $1000.

Oh, and BTW, I got 140,000 trouble-free miles out of my own 10-bolt. In fact, it just went the whole season behind my 11-second capable 396 RWHP T56 equipped minirammed 385. I tore the axle apart just the other night because of the 60-some quarter-mile passes(all at 112 MPH E/T and higher) , 17 autocross runs, and twenty minutes of high-speed road course action, and as far as I can tell, other than the crush washer that blew apart to cause excessive gear lash and a possible overheated outer bearing that brinneled up the axle shaft, there wasnt much wrong with it. The gear looks okay and probably would have survived another season like this one.

If your 10-bolt blew behind an LG4, then you had a faulty 10-bolt.

FWIW, I dont think that the 400 is a "magic bullet". It'll probably be a low 14 to high 13-second car, unless it's got some good flowing cylinder heads. However I dont think too many "free" 400s come with good flowing cylinder heads. I wouldn't sweat the axle quite yet. Your L69 Z28 came either with 3.42's or maybe even 3.73's. Remember, up until the last Camaro rolled off the line in 2002, nearly all F-bodies (except the 9-bolt folks) came with 10-bolt axles. 7 5/8 ring & pinion, every one, even with 320 HP LS1 engines and 6-speed transmissions. It's good to 250 RWHP as is, and to 400 RWHP with upgrades. Worry about it only when you start cutting a 1.6 second sixty-footer.

Take a breath, this is a long one with lots of questions ...

You both have good points. I couldn't tell you how hard it was driven before I bought it. I have no idea on the condition of the rear-end gears. Except they work. I've only put a couple hundred miles on the car in the past two years. It has been sitting in my garage or in the driveway. It was only after my wife was in an accident, and my truck was totalled last winter that I started trying to get my car back on the road. Right now I'm tracing a battery draining problem, which I hope to solve very soon, and trying to plan an exhaust or complete engine build-up.

Here is what I want or will be doing with my car in the end:
1) daily driver (20+ mpg)
2) weekend cruiser (20+ mpg so I can drive to Syracuse and back on 1/2 a tank, and to Nashville, TN and back on 4 tanks)
3) nuts and bolts permitting - autocross car - serious contender
4) much much much later (15-20 years) show car; after I acquire an amatuer series race car (compete in nationals), and the Z can retire to #1 and #2.

I have no plans to drive the car during this winter, just being a realist, so I have some time. Yes, I would like 350-400RWHP, but I also want 20+mpg. Laughing - when my car was new that was a pipe dream. Boy times have changed.

When running the Q-Jet, do you really need the AIR system?
Does the car actually need the freakin' stove pipes that come out of the manifolds even if you change over to headers?
My nearest Chevy dealer, also an inspection station, tells me that I can remove everything, except the cat (which I would keep anyway), is he setting me up, or is he right? In my job I move every two-four years, so I will be moving soon. My original home, in TN, says the same thing. My car is too old to get the sniffer test, just a visual for the cat. I mention this cause I have a hot rod magazine where they built a 400+hp 383 in a '75 Camaro (named G/28), and after adding all the smog junk it only got 177RWHP and like 220RWHP after they fab'd an exhaust.

The 'smog junk' isnt going to hose down your power by THAT much. A 400+hp 383 that gets only 177 RWHP sounds as if it wasnt designed or sorted out correctly.

However, if you plan on moving around, be prepared to do some creative explaining if you toss out your EGR, AIR pump, heat stove, exaust crossover, and whatnot. That is all emissions related stuff that you need for a visual in most cases.

Now, GM used to offer a 350 H.O. retrofit that was 50-states emissions legal for retrofit into early third-gen cars that used all the L69 bits, and it was a 13.7 second package. That's 250 to 260 RWHP.

With an '84 L69 you are already blessed with most of that stuff on your car already. You have a good carb with the DR secondary rods. You have a decent computer with a decent spark curve. If you want a better one, I can send you a performance chip for that computer but you DAMN WELL better not throw it out if you decide to axe the CLCC carb! You need to send it back if it doesnt work for you. You also have a knock sensor on the engine that will assist the timing for use with all types of fuel. I almost forgot, you should have the rare and sought after dual-snorkle air cleaner assembly! If you pop out the activated charcoal ring from the inside of the air cleaner, and remove the two baffles from inside, your air cleaner will support a *lot* of clean air to the engine and should pass most all visual inspections.

If you get a new exhaust, get a new catylitic converter. Catco converters are $59 now, and as long as the engine is tuned well with a sane cam choice, it should survive. However beware of running pig-rich as it'll burn out the catylist rather quickly.

As for the 20+ MPG, if you keep the CLCC carb and let it run closed loop, you might hit 20 MPG but you probably wont. The best I ever got with my CLCC 305 was 22 MPG with my 3.73 gears. If you have the 3.42's I suppose the 400 might get that kind of mileage but realistically I would be surprised to see that mileage without putting in a lower ratio.

Thanks. I guess the smog stuff will stay after all. I didn’t think the numbers were correct. That was a huge amount of parasitic loss. I guess they rushed to quickly to print. One thing that I was afraid of happening is if I did remove any part of my smog stuff, especially the AIR system, my check engine light would stay on forever. Anyway.

I have read about the H.O. 350 package. It did seem like a good deal. Crate engine, tranny mods, complete exhaust, computer, etc, $4,000.

HECK YEAH! I would love to increase better my spark curve. We need to talk offline! You know, I was about to “ebay” my L69 dual snorkel in favor of an open air element until I read a thread a few days ago that stated my current air cleaner lowers intake temps 20-40 degrees. Now I don’t have any plans to sell it. I did plan to “modify” the internal baffles, because it’s like you said, they block half the air way passage. Now from what I gather from your comments the L69 metering rods are more than adequate for any current or future mods and engine swaps? I don’t have to go to the salvage yards or looking at every website out there for new rods? Cool.

I have had a couple of buddies, non-Camaro owners, who changed their cats and failed the emissions test. I know that I do not have to take it, but just in case I do in the future, how do I know which cats will pass? Should I speak to Summit or Jegs about that question when I buy? Who sells the cheapest, yet good quality exhaust systems? I know carb’d cars have more freedom during the test, and I must mention that my buddies cars are fuel injected.

I cannot find my axle ratio on the housing or axle (lots of rust), but I know the autos came standard with 3.42, and I keep finding conflicting information from different websites on whether the 3.73 was an option for the autos. I did not see it on my glove box/center armrest/console when I checked a couple of years ago, but maybe I overlooked it. Where else will it be, besides the axle? Where on the axle should it be (driver side, passenger side, near brake distro box, on housing)?

And yes, I plan to keep my Q-Jet. It will keep things simple and save me $$$$. Until a few weeks ago I was pricing Demons and Holleys, but threads and Chevy Hi-Po have helped me see things more clearly.

ALL L69 cars could get 3.73's. My car came with factory 3.73's. 3.73's were standard for the five-speed cars, and optional on the automatics. If you have the center console look for the option code "GT4" that specifies rear disc, 3.73 limited slip differential.

In regards to AIR, you can safely remove it without tossing codes. Problem is, the AIR pump provides fresh air to the exhaust system and this helps get the catylitic converter hot faster, thus lowering cold engine emissions. It provides additional oxygen that interacts with the unburned hydrocarbons. The computer is not sophisticated enough to know if its there or not. Same thing with the EGR, though you probably should keep EGR functional. The evaporative air cannister is another one that is not monitored. Your heat stove to the carb is useful if you run the car in the winter. It'll get the cold air warm and help keep the carb ice free. I used to switch from an unmodified air cleaner for winter operation, and a modified air cleaner without baffles for summer operation.

Axle codes are stamped on the passenger side axle tube, and the letters are a quarter inch tall. You need to wire-brush it, probably six inches away from the center section, facing the front towards the front wheels.

Any catylitic converter should do the job. Catco is cheapest, however my catco only lasted 5000 miles due to the radical cam I tried to run last season.
On exhaust I recommend highly the Hooker Aerochamber cat-back from Thunder Racing. It sounds great and flows enough air for even my 400 RWHP minirammed 385. As for headers, cheap & decent ones are the Edelbrock TES or the Hooker headers, again from Thunder Racing. Just toss out those dumb exhaust tips Hooker sells with the kit, and install some slash cut chrome pipes.

I have front Disk and rear drums. Did the 3.73 come on drums? The car came with power seats, windows, locks, etc., and freakin' rear drum brakes. I know old schoolers prefer drums, but disks have always been easier for me to work on in my garage (less frustration).

An L69 with drums. Well it could happen. Has happened, in fact. On the Pontiacs it was known as the "WS6" option, I think. Actually the drums were less maintenance than the pre-1989 rear disks and were more reliable. In the back of your mind, think: LT1 rear brake package, LS1 front brake conversion package. That's the hot third-gen brake setup right now and its not that expensive. However it's definitely not time for the conversion in your case quite yet. Save that project for when you've got the powertrain, suspension, and probably the bodywork done.

I just started a webpage in readers rides. My title is almost the same as the title to this thread. I think it is one of four 1984's if you have to do a year search. I only put up two photos ... one at my old house (2004) and one of my engine bay. I have more photos, and later I will add them along with day one photos ... the car was in rough shape when I got her.

Thanks, I knew one day I would need to upgrade those also. Infact, I will replace the brakes this summer, but with Hawk pads ... and I will turn the rotors and drums. The plan is to upgrade my brakes, replace shocks, springs, rubbers, etc. in 2007.

The original color of the car was Poop ... I mean Dark Brown. I like this GM 2004 color better. I first saw it in 2003 on a Pontiac Aztec ... go figure. I am keeping the interior Dark Brown and Black two-tone.

The silver looks great. I love the look of the early Z28s. Very, very rare now. Check out the graphics from Phoenix Graphics. I put those on my car this year and they are perfect. It'll really finish off the outside of that great looking Z.

Thanks, I was going to have the graphics painted on the car, but the guy who painted it had my car in jail for months without touching it AFTER he took the entire car apart. (fenders, quarters, hood, seats, and nose) So we took the car back after he laid the primary colors.

I had the non-functional hood louvers? ... whatever you call them removed, and filled in the (4) 1/4" mounting holes. It looked to cheesy, and I didn't want to explain to everyone that my hot looking car has pieces of stationary metal decorating the hood (4" x 2").

Ya I would probably keep that engine if your short on money because its not a bad little engine but if you can convince your wife to scrap the engine out of it, do the Lt1 and pay for the extra odds and ends it would defidently be worth it. The 400 would give you crappy fuel effeciency so that could defidently be a selling point of the LT1.

I had the non-functional hood louvers? ... whatever you call them removed, and filled in the (4) 1/4" mounting holes. It looked to cheesy, and I didn't want to explain to everyone that my hot looking car has pieces of stationary metal decorating the hood (4" x 2").

Why remove them? They make third-gens look GREAT. I have seen I think ONE third gen with a normal hood that actually lookded good; in fact I think it's a new posters ride come to think of it :think:

Check out my car domain website ... I think my hood looks alright. I just prefer form and function. I would've kept them on the hood, but it didn't look real ... I've seen pictures of other '84s and mine just didn't look the same. Which made me wonder if someone replaced them with fakes metal rectangles.

The jury is still out on engine choices, especially on the LT1 ... carb or SFI?

you go lt1 you better not carb it,besides have seen what it cost to carb on of those suckers?you need to retrofit the distributorless ignition for a carb manifold.edelbrock makes a nice kit but it alone would almost kill your budget.the lt1 carbbed isnt such a great motor compared to the orginal sbc you have.i mean the basic designs are very similiar with the exception of a few changes but in terms of power an old sbc with a wicked set of heads carbed will make just as much if not more power than a carbed lt1 stock head.thats why i dont know why you would want to go to a carbed lt1?for what benefit

you go lt1 you better not carb it,besides have seen what it cost to carb on of those suckers?you need to retrofit the distributorless ignition for a carb manifold.edelbrock makes a nice kit but it alone would almost kill your budget.the lt1 carbbed isnt such a great motor compared to the orginal sbc you have.i mean the basic designs are very similiar with the exception of a few changes but in terms of power an old sbc with a wicked set of heads carbed will make just as much if not more power than a carbed lt1 stock head.thats why i dont know why you would want to go to a carbed lt1?for what benefit

I totally agree with you Anthony. The only benefit of that LT1 is the reverse cooling technology and the electronic fuel injection. Slapping that LT1 in will only be worth it if you go the whole way. Which brings up another question: How electronics savvy are you? There will be substantial wiring changes to be made to your car for the LT1. I know first hand 'cause I've done it!! My original service manual has grafitti all over the wiring diagrams where I've cut, spliced, and rerouted stuff.

Dont forget you will need to put in a different fuel pump into the tank and that requires that you drop the axle and the fuel tank! You will also have to run new wires to the fuel sending unit to get adequate current to the new pump. So, put in an LT1 and be prepared to do something like this:
http://www.ws6transam.org/intheair.jpg

You'll be removing the whole powertrain and suspension before putting it back together.

You guys make great points. I am pretty good with electronics and wiring, but, I would prefer taking the easy way out. My first idea was to buy a Painless Performance wiring kit, but they don't make a 3Gen specific wiring harness, just a generic one ... which would work fine, but that's another $300 to add to the budget. Hmmmm ... you know, the more I think about it the more I think I should keep what I've got.

Just get a 1) new cat, 2) cat-back exhaust, 3) Edelbrock headers. Then later get a short block, good set of complete Vortec (or whatever) heads, intake manifold, and be happy.

I'm guessing my current distributor will work in any Gen-1 SBC of 350ci? Please correct me if I'm wrong. The same for headers (specifically the Edelbrocks)? I like to buy things once, and once only.

Also, for those of you who already did it, is it worth building a 300hp 305?

Where is the best place to get a 350 short block? I know I know, not my local national chain of auto parts stores, even though I am a Michael Waltrip fan. Thanks.

I forgot to add ... from my past experience driving my buddy's 1994 Z28 that is beefed up to SS specs, 300-320hp is enough for me, and for what I will use the car for everyday. It would be nice to have 350+hp and 400lb ft of torque, but not right now or in the near future ... maybe in 5-7 years.

Is this worth it? (see site below) I know some of you have done this already, and would it work the same or better if done to a Gen-1 350ci?

http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/325_horsepower_305_cid_chevrolet.html

I know I would need to rebuild the bottom half of my engine. Right now she runs good, does NOT smoke (after the first 20-30 seconds), and sounds solid. I wouldn't think a machine shop would charge me too much.

The 400ci engine is already built for racing, complete with Holley carb, distributor, and collectors ... which I couldn't even dream about using. It was going to be dropped into either a Hobby Stock or Modified, but the rules changed, and the size limits are down to 358ci. He races at tracks hear in up-state NY (Watertown area). In those cars it average, I dunno know, between 4-8 mpg? I just wondered if street driving, and a Q-jet could make it hit 20mpg or better.
In a word, NO. You aren't going to make a car/engine that gets 4-8 MPG all of a sudden get 300-500% better gas mileage.......I would either beef up your cool lil L69 (one of my fav 3rd Gen cars/motors) or take that LT1......either way, be prepared to spend WELL over that $1,000 you have already decided on........

One other thing, about exhaust........with the exception of headers, most any exhaust you put on your car will work with most any motor. Just make sure to pick a free flowing cat back and use 2.5 or 3" pipes for everything and you should be fine for flow and power. Not too mention it will sound bad-ass. ;) If you can find a place to do it, I would go for true duals with dual cats......just go with 2.5" pipes. I have a 3" setup on my '02 WS6 and it has ground clearence issues but my buddy's '02 with 2.5" is perfect.

Good luck with your project.

Also, for those of you who already did it, is it worth building a 300hp 305?

Where is the best place to get a 350 short block? I know I know, not my local national chain of auto parts stores, even though I am a Michael Waltrip fan. Thanks.

I dont think it's worth building a 300 HP 305 unless the shortblock is in such good shape that you dont have to pull the pistons out of the bores. As soon as you need to swap in a new set of pistons or do any significant machining on the engine block, IMHO it is better to move up to the 350 shortblock.

Same thing with the cylinder heads. You wont make a good 300 HP without porting the cylinder heads. ..and unless you can do all of your own porting, which is a long, messy, dusty job, it's more cost effective to toss them out and buy new heads. Again, at that point it becomes even more cost effective to just buy the whole long block.

If you want 300 RWHP, buy the 400 and reconfigure it for the street with the proper camshaft! You'll have an engine that idles nice, makes good torque, is throttle responsive and can hall the mail when needed.

300 RWHP = 350 HP at the crank = 0.88 HP/CID for the 400 engine.
300 RWHP = 350 HP at the crank = 1.15 HP/CID for the 305 engine.

It's a lot harder to make that 1.15 horsepower per cubic inch with a 305 than it is to make 0.88 HP/CID with a 400. Your 400 will be a lot nicer to drive, and the gas mileage will be about the same as that high-strung 305 with its more radical cam.

84,thats a fine engine build but w/o new heads your 325 hp is a thing of dreams and new heads alone are going to blow your 1000 budget

Yeah, you're right. If I try to do it all at once I will go past my set budget. First things first.

Here is how I see it. With the 305 (or any Gen-I SBC) I need to fix my nickel and dime stuff, i.e. smog stuff.

No matter what I NEED, NEED, NEED an exhaust from the cat ($120) to the muffler (cat-back $250).

Headers are a BONUS and cost $450.

BONUS: performance upgrades are not in the picture right now (300hp 305). From what I have read the Vortec heads are $400 - new (the same iron heads that came on the Silverados?) . Edlebrock intake $250. Cam kit $250. (from the Car Craft and Chevy Hi-Perf. articles)

BUT!!! Then I have to ask is it cost effective to keep the 305 and beef it up (and rebuild the bottom half) or junk it in favor of ... whatever???

From the replies I have received, I need to keep my basic wiring, basic smog, carb, accessories, etc. to keep the cost down for an engine swap, if I do a swap.

The general group seems to agree the 400 is too radical and $$$ for my budget.

The Impala LT1 (with 60K-80K miles) $350. Need fuel sending unit $200. Painless Perf. wiring kit $350. General conversion parts (from list seen on thirdgen.org website) $300. BONUS: complete custom wiring job/transformation made easy - spring for the S&P/Hot Rod Lane wiring kit and new computer, etc. $1,000. Actually, this conversion can cost even more money. If you keep it fuel injected. Carb it and the cost is A LOT cheaper ... new intake manifold, distro, and a few other parts under $200 and your done (engine must have all acc. and brackets).

GM Performance crate motor 290hp, 350ci, $1,550.

Lastly, a few of local race/machine shops (specialize in hobby stocks and modifieds) offered to rebuild my 305 between $1150 (low) and $1350 (high). Bored, blue printed, and balanced. Yes, I live in the country where machine shops work cheap. Down in Nashville the same work would be double the cost.

My estimates are about $2,000 for 300+hp no matter which route I take. I may settle on 225hp to 235hp range. I just need my L69 to last a bit longer ... its lasted for 22 1/2 years ... I'm only asking for another 6 months to 18 months. Then I will decide on which route I will take.

Also, I think the original car & driver / motor trend test results in 1984 (in a perfect world) were 1/4 mile times of 15.1 sec. and 0-60 in 7.1 using paper air filter, factory transmission, all season OE tires. A good specimen should be able to duplicate those numbers or be better ... I don't know what trans they used M/AT, but I'm gonna guess manual (if available on the L69 at the time of test).

NOTE: all cost are rounded estimates. please do not crucify me if I'm off by a few bucks.