Chassis Talk

Ok, now the pics of the chassis show the rear nearly an exact duplicte to Sigma. Now the front also looked a little big like Sigma, but I was wondering...how would that work if the front end will use struts? Or is the strut thing out the door, and we will get SLA?? I was looking under my Maxx today, and noticed that the front subframe, looks very close to the CZ6 chassis's front end. Any chance of a cross breed, since Epsilon is fairly new and uses aluminum parts that are already paid for and tested??

Not only is it NOT an exact duplicate, it's an entirely different platform.

Ehhhh, the hell with it, nevermind................

Not only is it NOT an exact duplicate, it's an entirely different platform.

Ehhhh, the hell with it, nevermind................

I must've missed it.

Care to explain please? :)

Not only is it NOT an exact duplicate, it's an entirely different platform.

Ehhhh, the hell with it, nevermind................
Youve said this a number of times, yet havent given any evidence or anything for us to believe. Im not saying youre wrong, but weve been given nothing to believe in. For those of us who dont have inside knowledge, the chassis in the pics look ALOT like the underside of a CTS-V, regardless of what people say, it LOOKS close.

Youve said this a number of times, yet havent given any evidence or anything for us to believe. Im not saying youre wrong, but weve been given nothing to believe in. For those of us who dont have inside knowledge, the chassis in the pics look ALOT like the underside of a CTS-V, regardless of what people say, it LOOKS close.

Well, you don't have to believe me.....just look at the pictures which we can't post here. Look at the IRS. Look at the shape of the spring perches...one's round, one's oval. Look at the placement of the anti-sway bars, they're in completely different locations. Look at the difference in control arms and on and on.

Well, whatever, I don't care....you guys just talk amongst yourselves.

Ok, the design of the rear of that CZ6 looks very close to the Sigma.
I guess I made this thread for a reason... the reason is for Charlie to explain wtf is going on. Few questions for thoes out there.

What is CZ6?
How is it related to Sigma?
How is it related to Zeta?
Why were there CZ6 CAD drawings amungst the concept pictures if it is not in fact a production chassis?

The first time I ever heard of CZ6 was on the CAD drawing.

The CAD IS Zeta.

It's THE platform.

ok so that CZ6 IS Zeta. Camaro, Zeta, 6cyl. I dunno what it means.
So this IS Zeta.
Where are those pictures of the CTS-V??

I'm not sure if that "CZ6" denotes Camaro specifically though.

The first time I ever heard of CZ6 was on the CAD drawing.

The CAD IS Zeta.

It's THE platform.
Yeah, but is Zeta close to Sigma? Or does it just look like it? It looks to me like they started with Sigma and made Zeta, maybe by using cheaper parts where they could and that is why some of it looks slightly different. Or are the 2 totally unrelated and just happend to look similar to the untrained eye?

Yeah, but is Zeta close to Sigma? Or does it just look like it? It looks to me like they started with Sigma and made Zeta, maybe by using cheaper parts where they could and that is why some of it looks slightly different. Or are the 2 totally unrelated and just happend to look similar to the untrained eye?

I'm told that they are completely different.

Let's not forget that to GM, the LS1 4th gens were considered the 5th generation. So that CZ"6" could just denote Camaro Zeta 6th Gen.

or CZ6 could just be internal code for Chevy's Zeta platform for 2006 (i know the 2006 part is a reach, but i just felt like speculating)

Or maybe the "C" stands for coupe? Who knows. I wish I knew the exact dimensions.

I wish I knew the exact dimensions.can't somebody figure that out using the transmission or something as a scale?

can't somebody figure that out using the transmission or something as a scale?


that's not a bad idea....any techies that can figure that out?

Let's not forget that to GM, the LS1 4th gens were considered the 5th generation.

Since when? :confused:

The front in the CZ6 drawing *IS* a strut type front suspension. Look at CZ6 vs. the GTO front suspension and it's a match except the rack was moved in front of the wheel centerline, allowing a rear sump oil pan. In the CZ6 drawing you can clearly see a red circle for the strut, a green lateral locating link, a purple diagonal longitudinal link and an orange sway bar.

http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/PontiacGTO/Images/Undercarriage.jpg

I wonder if it would be alright to post a version of this i just made with a squre from teh cz6 drawing pasted on for a side by side front suspension comparison? If people were actually looking at this i think they'd stop guessing.

Since when? :confused:

I dunno, I've always remembered the Camaro poster they made said something about five generations of Camaro. I looked at their store and I can't find it. But I'm still pretty sure they consider the new Camaro the 6th gen.

I'm sure GuionM or RP could tell us for sure, though.

I dunno, I've always remembered the Camaro poster they made said something about five generations of Camaro. I looked at their store and I can't find it. But I'm still pretty sure they consider the new Camaro the 6th gen.

I'm sure GuionM or RP could tell us for sure, though.

Ermmm... yeah, we can certainly wait for Guy or RP to chime in. But in the meantime, check out what this forum is called. ;)

I dunno, I've always remembered the Camaro poster they made said something about five generations of Camaro. I looked at their store and I can't find it. But I'm still pretty sure they consider the new Camaro the 6th gen.

I'm sure GuionM or RP could tell us for sure, though.

If it was to be considered a 6th gen, wouldn't one of the people you mentioned have told the admins that their forum name is and has been inaccurate for such a long time?

edit: gotta stop typing so slow, watching TV at the same time..

http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/PontiacGTO/Images/Undercarriage.jpg



The CAD and this illustration both have a T56. If someone could resize so that both T56's are identically sized...............

i just looked Charlie. i see some similarities in the front end as far as control arm placement and stabilizer bar placement. the steering rack is in front on the CZ6. the rear though looks very different. are there any pics of the Holden Zeta?

The CAD and this illustration both have a T56. If someone could resize so that both T56's are identically sized...............


Could you believe the CZ6 looks like a longer wheelbase, about the same overall length?

Could you believe the CZ6 looks like a longer wheelbase, about the same overall length?

Yes.

Are we sure the pics of the suspension are not just for the concept? We have all heard many times that the concept will not be on the production suspension.

David

Ermmm... yeah, we can certainly wait for Guy or RP to chime in. But in the meantime, check out what this forum is called. ;)

lol, just because we consider the LS1 4th the 4th gen, does NOT mean that GM does.

There was a whole post on this a long while back, someone posted a link to the poster I'm talking about, and other people said that GM considered the LS1 4th the 5th generation of Camaro.

There are no corrections to be made to the name of the forum, IMO, it's an opinion thing. We can consider the 6th the 5th all we want, GM people thinking otherwise doesn't make any difference. I believe that that is why(If I'm right, and if what I've read is right) there haven't been any corrections already made.

Why are we discussing someone who saw someone who might have posted something said GM said the LS1 Camaro was the 5th Gen Camaro???

Poster? lol, no. POSTER. Like, those big paper picture things you hang on your wall? Made by GM, sold at the GM store. In the thread about that POSTER(the one about five generations of Camaro), other people mentioned the fact that GM considered the LS1 the 5th gen.


Diognes, Why would GM make a nice, neat CAD drawing for the concept's chassis? It's pointless because concepts are just made to show off the LOOK of a car.

hey Charlie, Guy put up an interesting post in the future vehicle section about the chassis in the Holden thread. take a look:

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3497084&postcount=20

if he's right, does that make this NOT Zeta???

I thought the zeta was cancelled, and that it was more of a technique than a chassis? I have given up on what zeta is...

hey Charlie, Guy put up an interesting post in the future vehicle section about the chassis in the Holden thread. take a look:

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3497084&postcount=20

if he's right, does that make this NOT Zeta???

Welp, all I can tell you turbo, is that I've confirmed it as Zeta from a trusted source.

And it appears that whole Sigma-Lite thing fell through months ago. But Chevy is still getting it's cars, not so true about everyone else.

We're back to Zeta now, it's uncancelled. So I hope our Aussie friends on this board, keep us well informed. ;)

thanks for keeping me clued in Charlie. seems like it all makes sense.

Thanks Doug for the resizing.

I'll post some thoughts later, when I get some time.

Thanks Doug for the resizing.

I'll post some thoughts later, when I get some time.

sorry, by the way you talked i thought you had such a picture or i would have emailed the one i did last night...

sorry, by the way you talked i thought you had such a picture or i would have emailed the one i did last night...


Charlie,

Thank Ed ^^ for the pic...I just linked you to his. :D

Thanks Ed!

Charlie,

Thank Ed ^^ for the pic...I just linked you to his. :D

Thanks Ed!

Thanks Ed.

Really fast, the CAD seems slightly longer in length and wheelbase than the current GTO.

What I was expecting for Camaro was a slightly longer than current GTO wheelbase and shorter than GTO length.

Could be that this is a CAD of the original Zeta GTO/Chevy coupe chassis.

I've got to work on this alittle.

Stay tuned.

Isn't the center section (purple-ish) where the resonator is, the section where length could be taken from?

I'm guessing from 6" - 9" could be removed w/o much trouble....

More pics (Thanx ICON)...this is the bottom of a CTS-V....looks damned close.....

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/img/under/Vu02.jpg

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/img/under/Vu01.jpg

I can't for the life of me figure out why pics of th3 CTS front suspension keep popping up. Is everybody blind? The CZ6 does not have A-arms.

I can't for the life of me figure out why pics of th3 CTS front suspension keep popping up. Is everybody blind? The CZ6 does not have A-arms.
Unfortunately...I think they keep popping up because other than that fact, the rest of the Sigma platform looks alot like the CZ6, other than a few suspension componenets...not exact, but semi close

I can't for the life of me figure out why pics of th3 CTS front suspension keep popping up. Is everybody blind? The CZ6 does not have A-arms.


Ed,

I realize that too....in fact, we've been discussing Sigma-Lite here for years and the CAD seems to show where Sigma lost some $$$

If you look at the purple and grey lower control pieces....it apears that they took the place of the cast aluminum A-arm on the CTS...along with using Macpherson struts instead of coil-over type on the CTS.

Looks like the front engine / suspension cradle is different.....I wonder if they'll interchange? ;)

Unfortunately...I think they keep popping up because other than that fact, the rest of the Sigma platform looks alot like the CZ6, other than a few suspension componenets...not exact, but semi close


My bad, i see what i'm doing wrong here.

I'm fixating on the suspension, but the front subframe and even gas tank placement is undeniably sigma inspired if not based. K-member doesn't really look like either to me.

How does the fuel pump pick-up work in a tank with 2 low spots?

One other comment.....either the spare tire is going to take up space in the trunk / hatch or we're getting run-flats...the mufflers are taking up the space where the Sigma had a spare well.:eek:

Very COOL stuff, this is all making a lot of sense to me. :)

Sigma and CZ6's front subframe look much different. I really want to get a picture up of Epsilon's front end.

Isn't the center section (purple-ish) where the resonator is, the section where length could be taken from?

I'm guessing from 6" - 9" could be removed w/o much trouble....

That's exactly where length would be added/subtracted. The problem here, is that the wheelbase appears to be about 111-112", about what I'd expect a modern Camaro to be. But if you base a Camaro on that chassis, (as it is), it looks like Camaro would be larger than a GTO.

Let's not forget that to GM, the LS1 4th gens were considered the 5th generation. So that CZ"6" could just denote Camaro Zeta 6th Gen.

WHAT????
Sez who? no one..and I mean NO ONE within GM ever thought that the LS1 4th gen was a 5th gen. And.......if you know of anyone within GM who actually said that, please enlighten me so that I may go flog them about the head in a rather violent fashion!!!

:lol:

WHAT????
Sez who? no one..and I mean NO ONE within GM ever thought that the LS1 4th gen was a 5th gen. And.......if you know of anyone within GM who actually said that, please enlighten me so that I may go flog them about the head in a rather violent fashion!!!


Classic :D

WHAT????
Sez who? no one..and I mean NO ONE within GM ever thought that the LS1 4th gen was a 5th gen. And.......if you know of anyone within GM who actually said that, please enlighten me so that I may go flog them about the head in a rather violent fashion!!!


:lol: i've heard stories from some of the guys around here about him removing their hat and proceeding to beat them senseless with it.


Sharker524...........you have been warned.

Blah, I was waiting for someone who actually knew something to chime in. It was posted here a while back, and I guess I took it a bit too seriously. GM isn't known to be the smartest of folk, I saw no reason to doubt ;)

i took that .. was it a GTO chassis? anyway.. i tried to match the transmission sizes, got as close as i could then blacked out the whole CZ6 chassis except for the transmission and overlayed it on top of the GTO chassis with some transparensy.. it seems to be quite a bit larger of a chassis, wider, longer, and longer wheelbase.. remember.. the blacked out chassis diagram doesnt have bodywork either, which is why the wheels stick out so far from it

http://home.comcast.net/~builder228/stuff/overlay.jpg

almost makes it look like the CZ6 chassis shoud be a 4 door, but the proportions just don't make any sense to me if they are for a coupe.

my little overlay diagram can't be right.. cause with the GTO's 109.8" wheelbase.. that puts the CZ6 at 127.4 inches or so based on my comparison.. gotta be wrong

hey FS, did you try resizing the rear diffs to be equal on the GTO and CZ6?

i did not try that.. you think they are the same one?

i gotta go now, maybe i'll try it later tonight though

looks like they are the same. it was one of the only things other than the trans i could think of to size the CZ6 to.

my little overlay diagram can't be right.. cause with the GTO's 109.8" wheelbase.. that puts the CZ6 at 127.4 inches or so based on my comparison.. gotta be wrong

Yeah, either that or the CZ6 has 325 mm tires all the way around:D

my little overlay diagram can't be right.. cause with the GTO's 109.8" wheelbase.. that puts the CZ6 at 127.4 inches or so based on my comparison.. gotta be wrong

Just some food for thought, it could be a visual trick of the CAD program they're using. I don't know which CAD program they're using but I know a lot of them have a "perspective" option in the display settings that changes the way proportions look on screen.

The UGS NX3 CAD program that I use as an aerospace engineering student has that option which makes things look significantly different depending on which perspective option is chosen.

Just some food for thought, it could be a visual trick of the CAD program they're using. I don't know which CAD program they're using but I know a lot of them have a "perspective" option in the display settings that changes the way proportions look on screen.

The UGS NX3 CAD program that I use as an aerospace engineering student has that option which makes things look significantly different depending on which perspective option is chosen.

That’s true. I didn’t think of that. I used to be a mechanical engineering major at Texas Tech and the CAD program I was using there had multiple views to look at your design.

hmmm, when i did it, i didn't come out quite that big. No time to black it out and post right now though.

hmmm, when i did it, i didn't come out quite that big. No time to black it out and post right now though.


whenever you get a chance Ed. i really want to see how they compare.


and thanks for doin this for us.

http://home1.gte.net/res0t8sj/5th_vs_gto.black.jpg

I used the bellhousing flange and a rectangle towards the back of the trans case as references.

btw, no making fun of my chop, best i can do with ms picture it

slightly longer wheelbase. what's the GTO's?

I wana say teh GTO's is 108? Id say this is abotu 111-113.
Id say that we are gunna have a car about as long, wheel base and overall legth, as my Malibu Maxx.

That could also be the SEDAN version. Coupe version might be slightly shortened to GTO lengths...

I wana say teh GTO's is 108? Id say this is abotu 111-113.
Id say that we are gunna have a car about as long, wheel base and overall legth, as my Malibu Maxx.

The GTO's is actually 109.8.
Longer wheel base would be good, less overhang :cool: .

Chris