Why was the image removed from the front page of the site?

Per an indirect request from General Motors, we have removed the leaked image of the 2009 Camaro concept from the front page of this site.

Once the images were leaked and spread like wildfire, we had the understanding that the damage was done and released our image.

We recently just received indirect word that GM still does not wish to have their copyrighted intellectual property on display at this time, even if the intentions are for GM's benefit. We have no problems complying with requests such as this as we understand that the images are property of GM, and not ours.

We apologize and ask that you please understand the reasoning behind this.

Rest assured that as soon as we are authorized to release more information, we will!

I got the same email, and likewise complied. Undoubtedly some folks will be mad but its not worth risking you relationships with Scott & GM.

Wow....what a damned mess....

THIS is why GM demands that all websites that have a relationship with them comply with embargoes...it really puts GM in a bad spot when they are forced to clean up the mess.

This only solidifies my disloyalty to GM. Until the Firebird returns (I won't hold my breath), myself or anyone in my family will ever buy another GM product again. :mad:

Wow....what a damned mess....

THIS is why GM demands that all websites that have a relationship with them comply with embargoes...it really puts GM in a bad spot when they are forced to clean up the mess.

And make NO mistake...we will NEVER release ANYTHING unless we feel that we are SURE that it is okay to do so.

As I mentioned...when we released our image, we had an "off-the-record" understanding that the damage had already been done and at that point, our actions would do no additional harm. We were thinking that it would work the situation to an advantage, but there were obviously some mixed signals about this issue over the past few days.

This only solidifies my disloyalty to GM. Until the Firebird returns (I won't hold my breath), myself or anyone in my family will ever buy another GM product again. :mad:

I see that a lot but never makes sense to me. It is their intellectual property, they can do as they wish with it. Why would them wanting to keep their private documents and designs private have any bearing on brand loyalty or what car you buy?

Because they're a company. They don't care about the enthusiast. The only reason they'd bring back the Camaro is because RETRO is the trend right now. Why should I buy products from someone when they've shunned me before?

And make NO mistake...we will NEVER release ANYTHING unless we feel that we are SURE that it is okay to do so.

As I mentioned...when we released our image, we were under a "semi-unoffical" understanding that the damage had already been done and at that point, our actions would do no additional harm. We were thinking that it would work the situation to an advantage, but there were obviously some mixed signals about this issue over the past few days.

If all website were like this one, there wouldn't have been this mess.

Thanks for all you do Jason & Chris!!:bow:

Because they're a company. They don't care about the enthusiast. The only reason they'd bring back the Camaro is because RETRO is the trend right now. Why should I buy products from someone when they've shunned me before?

Good grief. This old bit again?

I think you have an incorrect perception on things. What car maker isn't a company? What does them wanting to keep internal information private have to do with the enthusiast? That's smart business and no company would survive if they didn't take care of themselves like that.

If you think the whole retro thing is the reason why they are working to bring the car back, you need to take a look at other things. We have been saying for YEARS that many people inside GM want to bring the car back, the Save the F-Body Page has hundreds of thousands of entries. That DID change things, and that came from the enthusiasts.

If you honestly feel that way, sell your GM cars and buy a Ford or Chrysler or whatever. I don't even see what any of this has to do with the topic of this thread and you didn't answer any of my questions. There's TONS of other non-GM sites out there, find one and make some new friends that share the same thoughts. Complaining like that won't do anyone any good.

I see that a lot but never makes sense to me. It is their intellectual property, they can do as they wish with it. Why would them wanting to keep their private documents and designs private have any bearing on brand loyalty or what car you buy?

Jason,
I understand that there is some frustration within the community about what has happened to the Z and I guess that explains some of that type of attittude but ultimately its GM's property, (enthusiast or not) so its THEIR call. Period. If its someones propety then its someones property and no amount of excuses changes that. They should not have been released without proper authority period.

Because they're a company. They don't care about the enthusiast. The only reason they'd bring back the Camaro is because RETRO is the trend right now. Why should I buy products from someone when they've shunned me before?

This has to be the most retarded thing I've ever heard on a forum. :rolleyes:

Jason,
I understand that there is some frustration within the community about what has happened to the Z and I guess that explains some of that type of attittude but ultimately its GM's property, (enthusiast or not) so its THEIR call. Period. If its someones propety then its someones property and no amount of excuses changes that. They should not have been released without proper authority period.

Yeah, that is kinda what I was saying...did you really mean to quote me?

Well, even the outline looks sexy :P.

It's cool the images are all over other board now so I think people that haven't seen them shouldn't have any problem finding them.

I wonder though what would happen if you posted the pics and GM threatened that it was their property and you took it all the way to the courts
"OK show me the prototype to prove it's a picture of yours" :D

It's cool the images are all over other board now so I think people that haven't seen them shouldn't have any problem finding them.

Very true.

I wonder though what would happen if you posted the pics and GM threatened that it was their property and you took it all the way to the courts
"OK show me the prototype to prove it's a picture of yours" :D

Heh...I wouldn't want to burn that bridge. This site and GM have a pretty decent relationship, and I wouldn't want to jeopardize that. If I feel they don't want them out there and/or on this site, I have no problems following along. What happens on other sites is out of my control. They can take their chances, I have no desire to. :)

If all website were like this one, there wouldn't have been this mess.

Thanks for all you do Jason & Chris!!:bow:

Doug, please drop the holier than thou attitude regarding our site. I think we have done FAR more positive things in regards to supporting GM than the problems caused by posting some pics. We didn't think we were the only site that received photos that day, and didn't know it would be some huge controversy to post them. Jason posted an unedited photo on this site too, so its evident that other sites had received copies as well.

Yes, it was a mistake on our part to post them. We apologized and immediately removed them. I spent nearly 6 hours that night chasing them down on the net and registering on dozens of sites to send PM's to Admins asking them to be removed.

I'm sick of hearing you take jabs at LS1TECH and its members because of this incident. Jason and I have always been on good terms, and I think he will agree that we have done TONS of positive things for the f-body enthusiasts as well.

Tony

so how many people had a copy of these images (and newer ones) before they were leaked?

its starting to become very clear that many people have alluded to having certain pictures for quite some time.

if this was the case, then what did they expect to happen?

hmmm 2009 different look maybe 2007 so it would be the 40th anniversary addition.. 09 to long to wait... I did like what saw the front needed alittle TLC but still I want one... Glad I got to see it on this forum.. If a company asked another one to pull photos sound like good business to me to do so...
Ricky

Nothing to get in arguments about, gang. It is what it is, and things will come down the line soon enough.

Hang in there!

This has to be the most retarded thing I've ever heard on a forum. :rolleyes:

Just do a search for all posts by his username... you might find quite a few to top that one. He's full of overdramatic pessimistic and illogical statements.

Because they're a company. They don't care about the enthusiast. The only reason they'd bring back the Camaro is because RETRO is the trend right now. Why should I buy products from someone when they've shunned me before?

Skull Leader.....I don't know whether I know you or not, but I take great exception to your statement that we do not care about the enthusiast. Far from it. I'd be happy to share with you privately what GM has spent just in the past year supporting Camaro/Firebird enthusiasts....just from the point of providing vehicles for shows...and sending GM people to these shows. I'll also provide you with how much I have PERSONALLY spent to support the community.

someone stole private property. As a corporation, we're bound by Sarbanes Oxley act to protect our shareholders. (and by the way...anyone on this site who has a pension plan is most likely a GM shareholder......)

While I may understand your disappointment, you are jumping to conclusions in matters you do not fully understand.

I'd respectfully ask you to reconsider your position.

GM definitely cares about enthusiasts, not sure why anyone would question that. I know that Scott attends every f-body yearly gathering in Dallas that we organize on these sites, and also invites f-body enthusiasts to come hang out when he is in Houston. I also got the opportunity to roll with the GM guys the last two years during the Hotrod Power Tour. GM cars are the pace cars for the event!

Once again Scott, I apologize for this week's chaos. We are looking forward to the actual unveiling.

Tony

Doug, please drop the holier than thou attitude regarding our site.

Tony,

I have NO attitude toward your site...none. I didn't even mention your site in this thread...I made a generalization as to the multitude of other sites that have posted them. Lighten up man. Hell, Scott as much as said the same thing as what you're attacking me again for...

I think we have done FAR more positive things in regards to supporting GM than the problems caused by posting some pics.

I've never questioned this either....but you, your moderators and the gang flamed the hell out of me for mentioning my real name (for John's reference) and that I too have done much good.

We didn't think we were the only site that received photos that day, and didn't know it would be some huge controversy to post them.

Tony, The ONLY reason I posted on your site was a post from this site pointed me to where the pictures were and I couldn't believe what had happened....John's comments caught me off guard and I called him on them...if you noticed, we're fine w/ each other now.

Jason posted an unedited photo on this site too, so its evident that other sites had received copies as well.

He posted them after an OK from GM...

Yes, it was a mistake on our part to post them. We apologized and immediately removed them. I spent nearly 6 hours that night chasing them down on the net and registering on dozens of sites to send PM's to Admins asking them to be removed.

Just stop making me the bad guy here....

I'm sick of hearing you take jabs at LS1TECH and its members because of this incident.

I only called you and John on your transgression....I didn't take any jabs at LS1Tech...I in fact wish you well in my last post.....but you allowed your moderators to curse me and the childish gang to flame me for hours....you even joined in.

But, I'll say whatever I damned well please on sites other than yours....

Jason and I have always been on good terms, and I think he will agree that we have done TONS of positive things for the f-body enthusiasts as well.

Tony

I never questioned this, but stop playing the "holier than thou" game with me too, as I don't have to play second fiddle to anyone in this hobby when it comes to commitment of time & $$ spent to support it.

Now let's put this behind us and get over it already.

If anyone has a copy of the pics please email them to me.

Yeah, that is kinda what I was saying...did you really mean to quote me?

No, I didn't mean to quote you Jason, Sorry!

Scott, it simply AMAZES me when people say GM doesn't support the enthusiast. NOBODY has done more for the enthusiast than GM has, PERIOD. All you have to do is look back on history since the mid'50's beginning with Ed Cole and the revolution of the small block as we know it. No manufacturer has produced more engines, more combos of engines and more cars to put them in than GM has. Does that mean that they are perfect, NO. There have been some mistakes made but I feel that they WILL and ARE addressing them.

I'm sure this comment has been made before, but I wonder just how "accidental" the release of the image was. GM comes out a winner either way, and now they've gotten a quick "market test", and free Internet publicity with the enthusiast community.

I like what I saw of the car and would love to see it in production. Provided GM manages to stay in business that long. They aren't exactly making piles of money lately.

Everyone stop complaining. What was leaked was a clay mockup/ design study. Rest assured that you all will see the final concept product at the autoshow, so no worries.

JasonD did the right thing. If you all are as big diehard fans as you say you are, you won't mind waiting a few more days. Just be happy you were fortunate enough to sneek a peak at the next design. :)

I'm sure this comment has been made before, but I wonder just how "accidental" the release of the image was.

I understand that people will believe what they want to regarding this, but I am here to say that this was not done on purpose. If you have your doubts, all I can say is that you have to trust me on this one and you can ask anyone here that I don't mislead anyone on things like these. I am very sure that jobs will be lost because of this, at the very least.

GM comes out a winner either way, and now they've gotten a quick "market test", and free Internet publicity with the enthusiast community.

With the Detroit Auto Show being one month away, they would have done that long before now. Plus, GM isn't exactly winning with the public by having pics of an unfinished car out there that they need to reel back in.

I like what I saw of the car and would love to see it in production. Provided GM manages to stay in business that long. They aren't exactly making piles of money lately.

Very good point.

I have no trouble with removing the images. Issue is though...I had to go through threatening to ban people to get them to stop posting the images when they first came out. Then yesterday it was seemingly okay to post the images. I know they would not have been on this site (without the LS1Tech watermark no less) unless some kind of permission had been given. Now a day later I have to go through an remove all the pictures again in any thread they may have been discussed in...and start threatening to ban people so they won't post it. Kinda puts the webmasters out there in a bad position ( when we had nothing to do with the leak, and initially tryed to stop the pics from being posted). Especially when in this case we know which site violated the copyright agreement (they even watermarked the pictures!).

I am not trying to be difficult and I will carry what ever line GM wants regarding the pictures...however it would be helpful if GM held a consistant stance regarding the subject. With the way the internet moves, there is no room for an inconsistant stance on something like this. Most of the people reposting these images on websites are simply enthusiasts that are not nearly as involved as we are and have no clue about all these politics.

I'd be happy to share with you privately what GM has spent just in the past year supporting Camaro/Firebird enthusiasts....just from the point of providing vehicles for shows...and sending GM people to these shows. I'll also provide you with how much I have PERSONALLY spent to support the community.


The very fact that GM allows Mr. Settlemire to spend so much time supporting the F-BOdy Community (a car GM can't make any money off of at the moment since the cars are dead) should demonstrate to everyone the committment they have to enthusiasts.

JasonD I believe you. Bottom line I appreciated the advance looks at the car and can only hope that it actually gets built and looks similar to the concept that I've seen.

Long live the F Body! :)

LOL. Boy, there sure is some good stuff in this one. :D

Gotta feel for those that have to try and go out and clean these pics off their website forums, through no fault of their own. What a mess - and not a mess of their doing. Now, is there anybody out there that HASN'T seen the pics? And if you did see them, who didn't download them to their computer?

Gigs up, my friends - for better or for worse....I suggest GM try and make the best of it vice going on a witchhunt. I say that with one caveat....I'd go after whomever was the original source of the leak with guns a blazin.

um could someone email me a desrciption of this leaked image so i can compare. thanks

Shadow

p.s
LClingwall@gmail.com

...Long live the F Body! :)


Well.. although we all agree with your sentiment, the F-body is dead forever. The new car will not be an "F-body". F-body = 1967-2002 only.

Long live the Gestapo.

Long live the Gestapo.


Hey, don't shoot the messenger. :rolleyes:

I completely understand the position you are in Jason. Once again, you guys go out on a limb for us. :thumb:

Obviously the photos are GM's property, I can understand that. My question is why is it such a big deal that they come out on a F-BODY enthusiast site? Those who would have been planning to go buy a Ford or Chrysler product may have just changed their minds because of the prospect of our beloved car coming back. What do we ,the die hard enthusiast have to profit? what do we have to gain? all of this mess, with over 1 month of time between the full scale introduction of the concept at the auto show.

[/QUOTE]
If you honestly feel that way, sell your GM cars and buy a Ford or Chrysler or whatever. [/QUOTE]


well im trying but the whole bankruptcy thing doesnt influence people to buy gm cars. its a shame gm is going down, but hey if its their time, its their time.

Its too bad the photos were leaked a month before GM was going to show off the concept in Detroit. And I honestly do not believe this a publicity stunt. If they were trying to stir up controversy then we would have seen some spy photos last year when Ford released the new 05 Mustang.

GM screwed up when they stated the Fbody was dead and never coming back. Basically they were indirectly telling guys like us to go out and buy a new mustang... the most popular mustang to ever roll off Fords assembly line. I just hope the new Camaro looks a little more polished than what I saw in the pictures. Because the change is almost too dramatic from the 4th gen which may or may not be good. But one thing I do know is the new C6 is fairly close in design to the C5... just close enough you wouldnt have to think twice about what you were looking at. Unfortunately I cant say the same for the new Camaro based on the photos Ive seen. Nobody would question the 05 Mustang is a Mustang or the C6 is a Vette... GM needs to work a little harder on the Fbody image before that car screams CAMARO!

Was it me or was that picture a bad photoshop job? The front grill area, windshield and roof lines didn't match up like they were poorly spliced together.

What do we ,the die hard enthusiast have to profit? what do we have to gain? all of this mess, with over 1 month of time between the full scale introduction of the concept at the auto show.

Youa re right...we have nothing to profit. So as stated above, what is the big deal about waiting a few more days to the real unveiling? It is not what WE have to profit, it is what GM and WE have to lose.

And also stated before, the comcept car was unfinished in the images. The first impression will not be as positive because people see the unfinished and very rough concept images, and immediately that first impression is blown. How many said "the nose is messed up"? (EDIT: See the post right above this one!!) Plenty, not knowing that is was a ROUGH version. Now they have less than a positive impression, and coupled with the "downloaded it, saw it already" attitude that people will get, initial offical public reaction will not be as good as it could have been. If it is not good, it has impact on the project, which alters that car what WE will hopefully be able to buy soon.

Not to mention auto show attendance, which is noted and paid close attention to. People come from all over the country to the Detoit Auto show. Surely, a percentage of people won't now. Again..."downloaded it, saw that already". If a Harry Potter movie came out in the theaters, but 20% of those who planned on going to the theater already had it on their hard drive a week before, they wouldn't have much of a reason to go see it in the theater. That, of course determines if they will make another.

See how this has an impact on things? It may not apply to you, but there are thousands more out there that it does apply to, and in the end, it determines the car that is offered to us in the future. To what degree, who knows? Could be a little, could be a lot. Of cours,e it might have helped but by comparison, it may not have helped neasr as much as it did damage. I wouldn't underestimate it, though.

GM screwed up when they stated the Fbody was dead and never coming back. Basically they were indirectly telling guys like us to go out and buy a new mustang.

GM NEVER said that. They were specific on using the word HIATUS.
http://www.camaroz28.com/articles/2002hiatus/ They never said it is "never" coming back. In fact, Settlemire often said "Forever is a long time, never say never.". Look up "haitus" if you don't know what it means.

Were Can I Find A Pic Of The Car My Dad Is Dying To See It

OK, I'm confused. The pic IS there when I click on the home page.

OK, I'm confused. The pic IS there when I click on the home page.

It is probably saved in your cache.

This is the file name...
http://www.camaroz28.com/2009.jpg
The name stayed the same, the image itself did not.

Skull Leader.....I don't know whether I know you or not, but I take great exception to your statement that we do not care about the enthusiast. Far from it. I'd be happy to share with you privately what GM has spent just in the past year supporting Camaro/Firebird enthusiasts....just from the point of providing vehicles for shows...and sending GM people to these shows. I'll also provide you with how much I have PERSONALLY spent to support the community.

someone stole private property. As a corporation, we're bound by Sarbanes Oxley act to protect our shareholders. (and by the way...anyone on this site who has a pension plan is most likely a GM shareholder......)

While I may understand your disappointment, you are jumping to conclusions in matters you do not fully understand.

I'd respectfully ask you to reconsider your position.


I'm sure he, like all Firebird fans is just worked up. Like Him I will hold off on Any GM vehicle till the Bird Returns. Although I have to Say you guys did an Excellent job with the Camaro so far. I'd probably end up buying one if I wasn't so partial to Trans Ams.

But hey I'm not gonna be buying a car for another 3 years, so who knows what will happen. *Crosses Fingers*

I think my opinion is the same as many Fbody enthusiasts Jason.

I saw the pictures, and they're actually saved to my harddrive - but for the reason that one day I want to pull them up on my computer and tell my grand children that I saw this car released, and it was a badass muscle car!

The prototype did indeed look a little rough, but I think just seeing a prototype lets everyone know that "WOW it's true! The FBody will come back!!!" Of course there are those, like me, that want a Firebird as well but probably won't get one.

The picture hasn't discouraged me from seeing the car at the autoshow which I will be attending, if anything I'd like to see it more now just to see how it's evolved and what GM is intending on releasing. I'm just as excited as ever about going and then (hopefully) purchasing one of these beasties!

And I like the windshield, I don't think I've ever seen anything like that before.

Cheers mate,
- Tony.

FBodFather, Can you shed some light on the Firebird ideas... Should I even expect it in the FAR future? Any type of clue or hint....

FBodFather, Can you shed some light on the Firebird ideas... Should I even expect it in the FAR future? Any type of clue or hint....

Don't hold your breath. From what I've heard over and over, there is no plan to bring back the Firebird at this time. Pontiac is putting all their performance marbles into the new GTO bag. Note, I said, "at this time" which means never say never. You just don't know what the future holds. Maybe someday GM will bring it back. They're brought other old names back from the dead before.

It is good to see all the GM supporting message boards on the same page and doing the right thing. I can't wait until January to see the real thing!

Those two sided concept cars are probably six months to a year ahead of the actual concept. It probably shares some styling cues, but will be a different vehicle entirely.

-Geoff

So now that we agree and understand why the picture was taken off, can we at least talk about what it resembled? :D

(Moderator, if the pic is not allowed, please remove the pic and accept my sincerest apologies.)

I haven't been on these forums for very long, but sure think the concept looked awfully similar to the one posted by CLEAN. What do you guys think?

http://www.indycamaro.com/McBride.jpg

It appears to me that their are those who get it, and those who do not.

For those who do not, if the image of the "fifth gen" goes public to other manufactures throughout the world, then we may never have a fifth generation camaro.

Car companies go to great lengths to keep their new models from the public.

So why should we as F-body folks be any different.

For those who scold GM and Camaroz28.com then you do not get it, and should more than likely be driving an import.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger. :rolleyes:

I am not talking about CamaroZ28.com :rolleyes:

So now that we agree and understand why the picture was taken off, can we at least talk about what it resembled? :D

(Moderator, if the pic is not allowed, please remove the pic and accept my sincerest apologies.)

I haven't been on these forums for very long, but sure think the concept looked awfully similar to the one posted by CLEAN. What do you guys think?

http://www.indycamaro.com/McBride.jpg

I might like that concept more than the real thing. I just hope we don't get round taillights on the 5th Gen. I'm bored with them and they just aren't Camaro to me. Not even when the early 2nd's had them.

It appears to me that their are those who get it, and those who do not.

For those who do not, if the image of the "fifth gen" goes public to other manufactures throughout the world, then we may never have a fifth generation camaro.

Car companies go to great lengths to keep their new models from the public.

So why should we as F-body folks be any different.

For those who scold GM and Camaroz28.com then you do not get it, and should more than likely be driving an import.

:thumb:

So now that we agree and understand why the picture was taken off, can we at least talk about what it resembled? :D

(Moderator, if the pic is not allowed, please remove the pic and accept my sincerest apologies.)

I haven't been on these forums for very long, but sure think the concept looked awfully similar to the one posted by CLEAN. What do you guys think?

http://www.indycamaro.com/McBride.jpg

I really like this concept.

As for the picture they took down off the main page, I didn't see it before they took it down, but did a search and came up with a front and back shot of a silver concept I'd never seen before. Was that it? (Plus the outline looked the same, lol:lol: )

I might like that concept more than the real thing. I just hope we don't get round taillights on the 5th Gen. I'm bored with them and they just aren't Camaro to me. Not even when the early 2nd's had them.

I like the drawing - alot. The front fog light area looks cleaner (more retro) in the pic than what the image study was sporting. IMHO, the rear round taillights are too corvette-ish but still look decent.

If GM had stuck to a design that was truer to the '69 Camaro while using today's building materials and production values, then this would have been a big hit with those 40-50-60 year old kids. ;)

The first thing I thought of when I saw the picture on this site was, "man that sure looks similar to the second-third generation Camaro." I am somewhat disappointed because I was hoping they'd go back to the 1969 design and freshen it up. IMHO it was those model years that had the best lines.

Oh well. It looks like GM is listening to all you Camaro fans out there. Anyone who's a second/third generation Camaro fan should be well pleased.

Back to the topic: I wonder what steps GM will take in the future to tighten it's security and make sure no car pics get leaked? It seems like they've had a big problem with photos being leaked recently.

I have to admit that I am a bit disappointed (not with the car) that the pictures got out. It took a little bit of the "BANG" out of the NAIAS release (though I am sure it will still cause quite a ruckous :) ). I will still be at the show eagerly waiting to see the finished concept :D .

Red Planet, I really like the car :D , even though these pics were obviously not of the finished version. You and the team that worked on it have definitely built something to be proud of :bow: . Nice work :cool: .

David

I'd like to see the forbidden pictures of the new concept. Can someone PM me a link or e-mail me some pics?

Thanks

D Moss

Jason did the right thing guys and to be honest it's not even our property to be throwing a fit about so why are some people getting thier panties in a bunch? Is it THAT long to wait until January for the real deal when we've already waited four years? I don't think another month will hurt anyone ;)

My $.02

Thanks Jason and Scott!

FBodFather, Can you shed some light on the Firebird ideas... Should I even expect it in the FAR future? Any type of clue or hint....

So far it seems not off the structure that's being done for Camaro.

Although Pontiac seems set to get a "Camaro" of their own, and although it could be named Firebird as easily as GTO, it seems that since Pontiac is going to become more distinct and upscale than Chevrolet.

But in that 1 in 1000 chance they do use the name "Firebird" (Firebird GTO? :think: ) anyone expecting another Corvette-ish looking, winged Batmobile is going to be even more dissappointed than the guys who were expecting another 4th gen-like Camaro.

anyone expecting another Corvette-ish looking, winged Batmobile is going to be even more dissappointed than the guys who were expecting another 4th gen-like Camaro.


:mad: :(

um... i'm havin a hard time finding this pic, or maybe i found it and don't know it. could someone PM me or email me the pics if you have em?

Well.. although we all agree with your sentiment, the F-body is dead forever. The new car will not be an "F-body". F-body = 1967-2002 only.

I would bet that the new Camaro is still going to be an F-Body, for the simple reason that the 4th letter in the VIN is probably still going to be an F.

The very fact that GM allows Mr. Settlemire to spend so much time supporting the F-BOdy Community (a car GM can't make any money off of at the moment since the cars are dead) should demonstrate to everyone the committment they have to enthusiasts.

very shortsighted of you to not include GM's other divisions when talking about their ability to make money on enthusiasts... GMPP comes to the forefront of thought when thinking about how they still do make money from enthusiasts in the Camaro/Firebird clubs - or any other GM car club, for that matter. just because the camaros and firebird have 305s and 350s in them and are easily modded by changing bumpsticks, inlets and waste gas - this just makes it even easier to support those endeavors. the chevy 350 market is huge.

outside of that, how easily would it be to convert a camaro enthusiast over to another of GM's herd? stick around long enough and you wouldn't drive anything other than GM product. they like it like that. most die-hards like us would never think about driving anything imported, and we all have a friend we are desperately trying to dissuade from driving that Ferd.

to take someone of the same heart and allow him to interact with the masses certainly seems like it's killing two birds with the same rock. he enjoys his time (well, most of it) chatting it up with us, and we appreciate it when he does because we almost always learn something.

so, in the big picture, sure it makes sense to allow someone on the inside to mingle with the enthusiasts, for more reasons than i have mentioned. it doesn't cost them as much as one TV spot for one commercial, and they almost have a captive audience...

I would bet that the new Camaro is still going to be an F-Body, for the simple reason that the 4th letter in the VIN is probably still going to be an F.

but it won't be using the "F" platform.. it'll probably use Sigma-Lite, or Zeta, or something like that... and it'll be shared among a few other GM RWD cars

i heard that they might keep the letter F in the vin... but i don't think that makes it an F body the Fbody will always be the 1967-2002 Camaro and Firebird..

there's been plenty of times where car models have changed platforms... the Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, Regal.. all were on the RWD G platform pre-1988.. then they swiched over to the FWD W platform

Yeah, but none of those cars have anything to their history like the Camaro does. I would be really suprised if all the sudden the car was not referred to as an F-Body any longer.

Yeah, but none of those cars have anything to their history like the Camaro does. I would be really suprised if all the sudden the car was not referred to as an F-Body any longer.

It wouldn't be the end of the world.

Darn! I missed it! Does anyone want to send me a pic or 2?;)

firecam@team.camaroz28.com

It wouldn't be the end of the world.

I didn't say it would be. I just stated that I believe that the 5th gen will still be referred to as an F-Body.

Darn! I missed it! Does anyone want to send me a pic or 2?;)

firecam@camaroz28.com

Are you sure that e-mail address is accurate?

I missed it too :/. Can you someone please send the pic to chipmb2985@yahoo.com? Thanks a lot.

Me Three Please! bmanjr@msn.com

oh man i missed it does any one have any pics plz email me some pretty pretty plz!!!!!!!!!!

joey_r36@yahoo.com

nevermind...don't email them to me

Are you sure that e-mail address is accurate?


Oops! - firecam@team.camaroz28.com

I missed it too my email is streetracinta@aol.com

I support GM and the decision of this (and others) website. They can not post these images. First off, they are of a rough concept, and the photos were probally take over a year ago. The images are of the clay car. For those who have seen them, there are 2 halves to the car where they experimented with different designs. You can also notice the stands under the frame to support the car. I am sure of that the final concept to be unvieled in Detroit in January will look similary, but will be much more refined.

i missed it too.. can someone please email me it..
shafner@sc.rr.com thanks!!

Honestly guys...the "regulars" really don't want to be trafficing i these photos...they were stolen afterall.

A simple GOOGLE wil lead you to them...I did it in a few seconds time. here

I support GM and the decision of this (and others) website. They can not post these images. First off, they are of a rough concept, and the photos were probably take over a year ago. The images are of the clay car. For those who have seen them, there are 2 halves to the car where they experimented with different designs. You can also notice the stands under the frame to support the car. I am sure of that the final concept to be unveiled in Detroit in January will look similar, but will be much more refined.


I think that it is all the hype that is going around about what will the next camaro look like that made this such a big deal. Everyone wants to see it because we just can't wait any longer. But yes, for those who did see it, the prototype will probably look very similar to it, and that's why GM freaked out. Why else would they go ballistic over a picture of a prototype unless it is it.
The pictures I saw had arrows drawn on them and looked like they were referring to notes that were not in the picture...another indication that it might be very close to the real thing.
True, the picture may have been taken a while ago, so there could be changes from it to the prototype, and then it will have a few more changes for production.
I personally am still very excited about the unveiling because there could be differences so I think there is still plenty of anticipation there. plus...as far as I know there has been no word of engine choices yet. Another thing to look forward too.
I remember when the C6 debuted and I think they even had a live streaming video when they did it. Anyone know if they plan on doing something like that again with the camaro??

I personally am still very excited about the unveiling because there could be differences so I think there is still plenty of anticipation there. plus...as far as I know there has been no word of engine choices yet. Another thing to look forward too.
I remember when the C6 debuted and I think they even had a live streaming video when they did it. Anyone know if they plan on doing something like that again with the camaro??

I completely agree.

I remember when the C6 debuted and I think they even had a live streaming video when they did it. Anyone know if they plan on doing something like that again with the camaro??

We've been told that a web simulcast is in the works.

I wondering if any one of you guys can send me the photo because i never see it and i want to!!. Thx:cry:
My email: jcbbenini@yahoo.com

We've been told that a web simulcast is in the works.


good, that I want to see then! I guess i'll have to keep a look out for it

what is a web simulcast?

a simulcast is a simultaneous broadcast.. when something is broadcasted over more than one type of medium.. for instance a football game being broadcasted over network or cable TV and simultaneously being broadcast over the internet via streaming video

ah. thank you :bow:

But yes, for those who did see it, the prototype will probably look very similar to it, and that's why GM freaked out. Why else would they go ballistic over a picture of a prototype unless it is it.


I agree, GM wouldn't get their panties in a wad if that wasn't a close rendition of the 5th Gen.

I agree, GM wouldn't get their panties in a wad if that wasn't a close rendition of the 5th Gen.

Oh wouldn't they? Maybe they leaked that one to throw us a curve. Maybe the concept will be different. By wadding their panties, they have us all hooked. They'll be reeling us in when that ultra modern concept is unveiled taking our breath away!

It just seemed funny to me that after all the hubbub, suddenly it was okay to have a "clean" image (Where did they get that one!) of that car dangling on the front page of the best F-body website all day long, before it disappeared again.

Hmmmmmmmm.........

Oh wouldn't they? Maybe they leaked that one to throw us a curve. Maybe the concept will be different. By wadding their panties, they have us all hooked. They'll be reeling us in when that ultra modern concept is unveiled taking our breath away!

It just seemed funny to me that after all the hubbub, suddenly it was okay to have a "clean" image (Where did they get that one!) of that car dangling on the front page of the best F-body website all day long, before it disappeared again.

Hmmmmmmmm.........

Trust me, you are reading WAY to far into it. That sure would be a lot of effort just to "fool" their own customers.

What if we had that "clean" image for a LONG time, and we just knew not to "dangle" it out there?

Trust me, you are reading WAY to far into it. That sure would be a lot of effort just to "fool" their own customers.

What if we had that "clean" image for a LONG time, and we just knew not to "dangle" it out there?

I know. I'm just trying to have fun with it. No harm meant.:)

What if we had that "clean" image for a LONG time, and we just knew not to "dangle" it out there?

You , sir, would be a tease ! :p


I think that whether or not the leak was intentional , it certainly served a purpose in exciting the domestic sports car fans here, and on other sites, and is getting GM plenty of free feedback on the proposed design.


Perhaps earlier than anticipated through the NAIAS , but I really don't see how much of an effect that earliness would have negatively.

In my eyes, if anything it would tend to make someone on the fence of buying a Mustang potentially hold off for what they really want, which is a 2 + 2 sports car built by Chevrolet , division of GM :cool: , or of course, it's sister ship, the Firebird.

So, in the terms of the one poster, "I don't get it" .

That's despite the fact that I have owned F's now since '84 . :yes:

My .02.

Britt

Trust me, you are reading WAY to far into it. That sure would be a lot of effort just to "fool" their own customers.

What if we had that "clean" image for a LONG time, and we just knew not to "dangle" it out there?

My guess is that the reason "permission" was revoked was to maintain a legal position of being "harmed", against the original leaker.....

It's hard to argue damages if you've changed your mind about showing the pictures.

I'd guess GM's legal team made that call.

Does anyone know if the Concept Camaro from the NAIAS show will make its way to other shows around the country? Namely Philadelphia or New York?

Does anyone know if the Concept Camaro from the NAIAS show will make its way to other shows around the country? Namely Philadelphia or New York?

If it does I hope it makes it's way to atlanta

Does anyone know if the Concept Camaro from the NAIAS show will make its way to other shows around the country? Namely Philadelphia or New York?


From our forum over at Chirpthird.com


As to Concept show locations..........tentative schedule (and please don't link to this comment.....OK to cut and paste, tho....)
Detroit
Chicago
Cleveland
New York
Dallas
Atlanta
........and I'll know within a few days if it may make an appearance at Los Angeles. (not the car in Detroit, but rather a 'foam'.....looks like a real car....smoked windows...no drivetrain)

Also:
Fbody Gathering - Atlanta
Fbody Reunion - Bowling Green

Hoping for:
Camaros at Carlisle

awesome...:cool:

where in New York is the show? Manhattan? Its a long drive...but i gotta see the car in person.

Do you know the dates for the NY or Cleveland show?

I am happy to say I will get to see it at least 3 shows this year

You can also check out this weeks Podcast we just released this morning. Jason described a little more about the unexpected and unauthorized release of the pictures.

Podcast #14 (http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416123)

where in New York is the show? Manhattan? Its a long drive...but i gotta see the car in person.

Do you know the dates for the NY or Cleveland show?


go here:

http://www.autoshowny.com/dates/

i'm gonna try getting something going for CamaroZ28.com members from the northeast to go. keep your eyes open in February or March.

PLEASE! send me pics also :(

sathenas@hotmail.com

Sheez...I know d-mn well I'm going to buy the next gen Z no matter what it looks like...but I gotta have my fix til then :( :( :( :( :( :( :(


SOrry for the picture request bandwagon too :cry:

go here:

http://www.autoshowny.com/dates/

i'm gonna try getting something going for CamaroZ28.com members from the northeast to go. keep your eyes open in February or March.

Ive already requested off of work :cool:

No Memphis? :p Kinda kidding although it'd be sweet.

Miami sucks, we need a bigger auto show.

wow, a picture they dont want to be seen leaks out and the brass is all over it. But stories of people getting screwed by the dealer pop up a random times and GMs to big to respond.

it looks like two cars snapped together... the driver's side foglamp is differant from the passenger side.. look at how the lower spoiler is lipped on passenger side and not so much on driver's side... and.. it is on stands... i really want to see the other side of that dang car.


and it's a pretty panther..!
and I like the driver's side a lil more than I like the passenger side (of nose cone)
the grill area looks more open for air flow... yet I like the way the lower front trim wraps around to line up with body line like the 80's models.

the pictures are of a clay car. they did 2 slightly different designs.

ok.. just saw the pics and must say that they need to keep with the non recessed lights. I prefer the more aerodynamic headlights like the on my 2002 or on the latest C6..

also i am not a fan of the larger wheels these days... gimme 16" wheels and I will be happy.

Man it soooooo would have been nice if we could have gotten a lil contest to see who photoshops the 2009 clay to look the most like what the actual car will look like... :( I started ripping into the moment I saw the pic.. and now.... no one can hang my images.

also i am not a fan of the larger wheels these days... gimme 16" wheels and I will be happy.

I am glad that someone else feels that way.

also i am not a fan of the larger wheels these days... gimme 16" wheels and I will be happy.

I remember the days about 10 years or so ago when 17" wheels where considered large. With the new body styles that auto companies have to use to compete with other car companies designs, 16" wheels would not match the body style at all. It would look bizarre.

The wheels in the concept image are 22" in the back and 20" in the front if I am not mistaken, but always keep in mind that the car is a concept of sorts.

agreed. they shouldnt worry so much about hte diameter. 17-18 would be enought. they should just give us some wicked wide tires. like 10" like the vette.:)

Still no pics in my email...its all gravy, I'll take the REAL Dodge Challenger over some fictional CLAY Camaro anyways.

http://www.thehemi.com/news.php?id=20051221-1

And dont worry, car guys, Dodge isn't likely to try and bully anyone into removing these pictures...THEY WANT TO SELL CARS.

Still no pics in my email...its all gravy, I'll take the REAL Dodge Challenger over some fictional CLAY Camaro anyways.

http://www.thehemi.com/news.php?id=20051221-1

And dont worry, car guys, Dodge isn't likely to try and bully anyone into removing these pictures...THEY WANT TO SELL CARS.

there is a big difference between intentionally released photos of a complete concept car and illegally stolen photos of an early incompletely clay model

i don't blame GM for not wanting those photos around (by the way, they are still out there if you look hard enough)

how hard is it to wait a couple of weeks to see the real concept car instead of wanting emails of some clay model?..

i don't see how dodge releasing photos a couple weeks ahead of time is gonna help sales.. considering neither of these cars are gonna be fore sale for a couple years or so and by that time who cares about leaked pictures etc. you'll be able to see the real cars in person, that's what counts

Hey, they showed the pics with the LS1 tech watermark on channel 4's "sneak pic into NAIAS"

Hey, they showed the pics with the LS1 tech watermark on channel 4's "sneak pic into NAIAS"

channel 4?

what is channel 4?

that said... they are still out on the internet too... there really is no way to suppress something once it get's on the internet, even for only a minute

channel 4?

what is channel 4?

that said... they are still out on the internet too... there really is no way to suppress something once it get's on the internet, even for only a minute
one of the local detroit stations, JDebler will know it

one of the local detroit stations, JDebler will know it

ahh. Detroit.. did a little research, your local NBC affiliate.. like my channel 5 ;)

anyway.. kinda surprising they would show that on TV, considering they were stolen property and all.. i wonder if GM is going to go after them

I love Camaros and GM, and I do hate to say it, but 2009? With GM currently selling GMAC (it's only profitable division,) and in the throes of bankruptcy, how realistic is this goal?

Chrysler is developing cars in 6 months (see Viper, Prowler.) Does it still take GM 4-5 years? Yikes.

I love Camaros and GM, and I do hate to say it, but 2009? With GM currently selling GMAC (it's only profitable division,) and in the throes of bankruptcy, how realistic is this goal?

Chrysler is developing cars in 6 months (see Viper, Prowler.) Does it still take GM 4-5 years? Yikes.

6 months? try 3 or 4 years

and 2009MY would probably start production mid to late 2008.. and the unveiling is at the autoshow in 2006.. how do you get 4-5 years? i'd call that 2-3 years.. beating Viper and Prowler

http://www.allpar.com/model/viphist.htm

Finally, in December of 1991, the first red Viper RT/10 production vehicles rolled off the New Mack Avenue assembly line -- exactly three years after the concept car's 1989 auto show triumph.

http://www.prowleronline.com/story.php


January 1993

Prowler proves to be the stopper at the Detroit show.

January 1997

Prowler joins the ranks of production cars

honestly, 4 years is too long. 3 years is long.

18 months is what they did with the Solstice...... and that is on a new platform.

I think 24 months is not too bad, because 2009 Model years will need to be ready in 2 years. All the 2007s are 99% ready now.......

Thing is, I think they waited too long to bring it back. 2002 to 2009, 7 years is not a hiatus, 7 years is "killed off" then re-incarnated.

Woulda shoulda coulda

But they really should have introduced the GTO sooner, and AT 30k. a hi-po V6er or even a smaller V8 with cloth and smaller wheels could have doubled numbers if it was sold for less than a GT mustang.....

Anyway, I hope that Scott is right, and the next 4 years gives us an onslaught of killer new rides from GM.

Timing is about right for the next of Lutz' trick ponies and then Welburns new stuff to start coming through.



I just hope the camaro will present itself as a competent 2+2 that will be adaptable as a comfortable daily driver to long hauler to sports car. That was what the idea was behind the 67, and I hope it goes back home.