Why Irs?!?!?

If the concept pics are for real, why does the 5th gen have to have IRS. Couldn't a solid axle be an option? I only wanted dual exhaust, which I see it has:) , and a decent sold axle rear end. Please GM, give us a solid axle, atleast as an option, please!

I think it's pretty unlikely considering that GM plans to make profit from this car and offering two totally different axle setups would seriously hamper that profitability. Can you think of any other car that offers both live and IRS?

If the concept pics are for real, why does the 5th gen have to have IRS. Couldn't a solid axle be an option? I only wanted dual exhaust, which I see it has:) , and a decent sold axle rear end. Please GM, list a sold axle, atleast as an option, please!

do a search this has been heavily discussed and debated over the past year:cool:

I think it's pretty unlikely considering that GM plans to make profit from this car and offering two totally different axle setups would seriously hamper that profitability. Can you think of any other car that offers both live and IRS?

The previous generation mustang. Ford has gone the solid axle route with the new stang, and I doubt the cobra will have IRS either. GM needs to step up to the plate with a stout sold axle rear for the 5th gen.

The previous generation mustang. Ford has gone the solid axle route with the new stang, and I doubt the cobra will have IRS either. GM needs to step up to the plate with a stout sold axle rear for the 5th gen.

Future Vehicle Forum...search "IRS" Lots of discussions there over the past 4 years at least.

iirc there were a lot of people with cobras that ditched their irs for the regular gt solid axle setup

Its just a sign of the times . I dont want a IRS either , but I realize theres no way were gonna get a solid axle . Seeing from heavily modded GTO's , there is 9" center section for that rear end , and BMR is running 9 second ET's with their GTO so equipped :cool: From what I can understand , the new mustang is IRS capable . And if you think theres gonna be a Camaro and Charger with a IRS with a solid axle mustang , I would think not . By the time the Camaro comes out , I would bet the Mustang has IRS across the board .

IRS is superior for what 95+% of the market will be using the car for, ie driving on public roads.

And it is far inferior to what those 95% will be doing when they get done, drag racing.

And it is far inferior to what those 95% will be doing when they get done, drag racing.

I disagree. The VAST majority of the cars will be used on the streets. I suspect the aftermarket will fill a need for a solid axle if the market demands it. The driving refinement that an IRS will provide will do worlds of good for this car.

And it is far inferior to what those 95% will be doing when they get done, drag racing.

What percentage of Mustang buyers go drag racing every weekend? How about once a season? How about ever?

I am glad to see an IRS. I want a car that will handle well, even when the roads get alittle uneven. I have kicked the tail out on my car more than enough times on a slighty curving onramp when I hit a mild bump.

I disagree. The VAST majority of the cars will be used on the streets. I suspect the aftermarket will fill a need for a solid axle if the market demands it. The driving refinement that an IRS will provide will do worlds of good for this car.

Strongly agree with this.

....checks calendar...yup it's almost 2006...no it's not 1906, it's really almost 2006........really.

My 1926 Model T Rat Rod originally came with a solid axle....I'd like something a little more current tech, thanks.

I don't recall Camaros of the past having difficulty with handling without IRS.

Honestly if it's at least strong enough to stand up mild upgrades and track runs without tearing itself up or wheel hopping the car to death, I don't really care... It's the end product that matters, if the IRS is well designed it will yield alot of benefits IMO...

I don't recall Camaros of the past having difficulty with handling without IRS.


On the smooth surface of Spring Mountain Park (Bragg-Smith), NV...I'd agree with you...on IRP's rough damn road racing track, I'd have to strongly disagree.

The previous generation mustang. Ford has gone the solid axle route with the new stang, and I doubt the cobra will have IRS either. GM needs to step up to the plate with a stout sold axle rear for the 5th gen.
Who'd have thought we'd ever hear "GM needs to step up to the plate with a solid axle." :lol:

The IRS is something I've actually ACCEPTED with an OPEN MIND ;). Answer me this: what type of suspension do the C5's and C6's (and their respective Z06's) have??;) Thank you, case closed:thumb:.

Want to keep arguing and tell me they can't hook up at the track?:rolleyes: Check out corvetteforum.com sometime, and tell me that C5's and C6's run bad in the 1/4 mile, THEN I'll reconsider my view of the IRS. Oh, and please tell me how many cars outperform the 'Vettes on ROAD COURSES (that don't cost ~$250k +) and again, the case is closed on IRS.

Welcome to the future! :cz28:

(edit: even "IF" GM put a solid axle in, you know they'd still use 'ol faithful:rolleyes:, so there would just be complaints about a ~3-decade-old diff in a brand new car, and it would pi$$ off more people than it would please:rolleyes:. Again, case closed.)

The IRS is something I've actually ACCEPTED with an OPEN MIND ;). Answer me this: what type of suspension do the C5's and C6's (and their respective Z06's) have??;) Thank you, case closed:thumb:.

Want to keep arguing and tell me they can't hook up at the track?:rolleyes: Check out corvetteforum.com sometime, and tell me that C5's and C6's run bad in the 1/4 mile, THEN I'll reconsider my view of the IRS. Oh, and please tell me how many cars outperform the 'Vettes on ROAD COURSES (that don't cost ~$250k +) and again, the case is closed on IRS.

Welcome to the future! :cz28:

(edit: even "IF" GM put a solid axle in, you know they'd still use 'ol faithful:rolleyes:, so there would just be complaints about a ~3-decade-old diff in a brand new car, and it would pi$$ off more people than it would please:rolleyes:. Again, case closed.)


Amen, brother!:D

The End.

Now back to the Z28 vs SS debate ;)

On the smooth surface of Spring Mountain Park (Bragg-Smith), NV...I'd agree with you...on IRP's rough damn road racing track, I'd have to strongly disagree.
The "percentage of people that drag race" statement used above could also be used here - and it would be just as relevant.

That said, IRS makes a lot of sense from GM's perspective. Personally, I have no use for it and wouldn't want it (throw the "stone age" comments are at me or my live axle all you want - it makes no difference to me).

FYI...Mustang will likely have IRS by the time Camaro comes out.

The End.

Now back to the Z28 vs SS debate ;)

No debate, one is SUPER and one is defined by a slash, end of story!:D ;)

Who'd have thought we'd ever hear "GM needs to step up to the plate with a solid axle." :lol:
:lol:

i dont think IRS will be a problem either AS LONG AS THERE ARE NO WHEEL HOP ISSUES. camaros have and always will burn rubber. When a 5th gen kicks its tail out, the tires had better be in contact with the ground and smoking - not hoppin up and down like a monster truck taking a whoop-dee-do section :irk:

I disagree. The VAST majority of the cars will be used on the streets. I suspect the aftermarket will fill a need for a solid axle if the market demands it. The driving refinement that an IRS will provide will do worlds of good for this car.

If it was comfort and ride quality buyers were after, I doubt the camaro, or any pony car for that matter, would be their first choice. Maybe the majority of drivers don't drag race every week, but I'de venture to say that the ability to launch is rather important to most. A sold axle rear would most likely cut down on cost as well. If it's done right, the handling will not suffer like most believe, and to be honest 99% of drivers will never take the car to the limit around corners like they will in a straight line. Install a decent sold axle, not the 7.5/7.625 10 bolt crap, and you have a real winner. From the looks of it, the chassi closely resembles that of the CTSV, and I think we all know how well the IRS handles a good launch. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

You just can't reach some people.

:rolleyes:

You just can't reach some people.

I know what you mean. ;)

I know what you mean. ;)

I was talking about you:p

I'm sure the aftermarket will step up with something.

On another note of the rear, and front suspension, can anyone make out the under pinnings will look like? I couldn't really make it out, as far as upper/lowers, SA/LA.

I'm sure the aftermarket will step up with something.

On another note of the rear, and front suspension, can anyone make out the under pinnings will look like? I couldn't really make it out, as far as upper/lowers, SA/LA.

Macpherson Struts.

With the cat being out of the bag, DO you guys not know that the CTSv guys are having problems with the IRS that the upcoming camaro will have? (Which that IRS will be OLD by the time it comes out.)


Z28Wilson. Do you go to the dragstrip much? Mustangs are there by the ton.

I have a 04 Cobra. And when it comes to driving on a day to day basis, Its great. When you drive it like grandma. But the ride and handling is pretty nice for what the car is.

In time there will be topics on this board "How can I kill the wheelhop?" accept it!

I have read some links of CTSv owners asking the same thing.

The IRS is something I've actually ACCEPTED with an OPEN MIND ;). Answer me this: what type of suspension do the C5's and C6's (and their respective Z06's) have??;) Thank you, case closed:thumb:.

Want to keep arguing and tell me they can't hook up at the track?:rolleyes: Check out corvetteforum.com sometime, and tell me that C5's and C6's run bad in the 1/4 mile, THEN I'll reconsider my view of the IRS. Oh, and please tell me how many cars outperform the 'Vettes on ROAD COURSES (that don't cost ~$250k +) and again, the case is closed on IRS.

Welcome to the future! :cz28:

(edit: even "IF" GM put a solid axle in, you know they'd still use 'ol faithful:rolleyes:, so there would just be complaints about a ~3-decade-old diff in a brand new car, and it would pi$$ off more people than it would please:rolleyes:. Again, case closed.)

what he said :D

You have options... Mustang with solid axle or Camaro with IRS... now, tell me that decision is so difficult. :D

I must have missed the Memo:

Federal Law for Sports Cars: (Signed with the onset of these pictures)

1) Thou must go to the drag strip once a month or suffer a fine.

2) Thou must go to a road coarse at least 4 times a year or risk tire deflation.

3) Thou may ONLY buy a sports car if you can satisfy the above requirements else car will be impounded.

Give me a break people only 5% or less actually "race" their cars.

While I understand the frustration of those who will want to drag race, the Camaro needed to go the IRS route. Just about every review of the 4th gen I can think of commented on its "harsh ride". This should fix that, as well as giving some great handling too.

I'm happy that we are getting IRS. I have plans once I get mine to be out at No Problem Raceway near Baton Rouge an taking to the twisties for some ear to ear grin fun :)

GM needs to step up to the plate with a stout sold axle rear for the 5th gen.
And for years GM has been told to "step up to the plate" with IRS. Half the complaints about the F-Body in it's last few years were ridiculing it for having a solid rear axle. Let them bring the car back in a form that is going to impress everyone, or it's going to have a short run.

The Vette hasn't been plagued with wheel hop issues.
When a 5th gen kicks its tail out
You'll know who's driving. :D

With the cat being out of the bag, DO you guys not know that the CTSv guys are having problems with the IRS that the upcoming camaro will have? (Which that IRS will be OLD by the time it comes out.)


Z28Wilson. Do you go to the dragstrip much? Mustangs are there by the ton.

I have a 04 Cobra. And when it comes to driving on a day to day basis, Its great. When you drive it like grandma. But the ride and handling is pretty nice for what the car is.

In time there will be topics on this board "How can I kill the wheelhop?" accept it!

I have read some links of CTSv owners asking the same thing.


I think its interesting everybody is bringing up the CTS wheelhop problems. If you talk to 1/2 the f-body owners here they will say they had major wheel hop issues.....a whole industry of poly tubular LCAs was based pretty much solely on an F-body wheel hop problem. I do not personally think it is a suspension problem at all but a tire compound/driver problem, as none of the f-bods I've ever owned have ever wheel hopped problematically. But I'm just bringing it up because its not like people don't complain about it with our cars too.

How wide is the solid rear axle in the new Trailblazer SS?

Why the hell would anyone want a solid axle when they can have IRS? Camaros are supposed to be able to handle, not just go fast in a straight line for 1320 feet. :irk:

I think you got it wrong there. Corvette's are made to handle whereas the Camaro is made to go fast in a straight line.:p As for the overly debated topic, I don't car which one it has as long as there are aftermarket companies out there willing to solve any problems that should arise from them. In the past they both have had their strengths and weaknesses, and there always has been aftermarket companies that sell products to cure those weaknesses. It shouldn't really matter.

Solid axle would be basically unacceptable. GM would be ridiculed for it (even though Ford gets away with it in the new Stang, and yes a solid axle can be fine for 90% of the ride and handling needs). The way the press is these days, GM gets called to task for ANYTHING, even if other companies do the exact same thing.

The fourth gen cars were universally praised for their performance and value (and styling), even handling on smooth roads. But they were almost ALWAYS critized, rightly or not, for having an "old-tech" live axle setup on such an otherwise potent machine. They were forgiven at first because of the value (when they came out, the only cars that were as fast/faster were the Vette/Supra Turbo/RX7 type cars, costing nearly twice as much dough).

I've driven several Vettes (C5 and C6, base and Z06), and I'll happily take an IRS and run with it. Someone will find a way to shoehorn a solid axle under there for the hardcore, gotta-go 9 seconds crowd who spend big $$ on making their cars into drag racers. For the vast majority of buyers though (who will never go to a strip, or may go very rarely), the IRS will be just fine, and will be better in the ride/handling department.

IMHO a solid axle in 2009 for a performance car is just outdated period.

Wheelhop can happen with any rear suspension. That's what the aftermarket is for. Stock cars are always going to ba compromise of ride and handling, and i'd expect a car off the showroom floor to favor the former.

I think everyone shoudl stop worrying about wheel hop and worry about that glass rear from the CTS. If you thought the 7.5" was bad...

I'm glad it's going to have IRS, but I don't plan on going to the dragstrip every weekend.

I think everyone shoudl stop worrying about wheel hop and worry about that glass rear from the CTS. If you thought the 7.5" was bad...
Urrwhat??! :eek: :shock: :irk: What do the GTO's and the 'Vettes have for diffs?:think: I'm pretty sure the 'Vette unit is pretty stout, but I don't know what the GTO has?:confused: I would LIKE to think GM is gonna put something strong between the driveshaft and the axles this time around?:rolleyes:

Very very very very happy it's an IRS.

This is what a modern performance car should have. Period.

For the less than 1% of owners who are hardcore straight-line racers, I'm sure the aftermarket will figure out a way for them to have a solid axle.

Let them pay for it, rather than the 99.X% of us who drive on the street.

I'm happy they are getting IRS, I'm do more AutoXing that drag racing and this is def. a big improvement. I would love to have IRS on my car right now!

I think you got it wrong there. Corvette's are made to handle whereas the Camaro is made to go fast in a straight line.:p

I hope you're kidding. :confused:

maybe we should have an ss with a bigger, torquier engine and a solid axle. the z/28 can have a smaller higher revving v8 and irs

There should really be a password to get into this section.

First off, no one seems to be complaining about the IRS under the Charger, Magnum, and 300C. No one is crying about the IRS under the soon to be Challenger. Why are we comparing the Cobra's IRS to this one? Cobra's IRS was designed for a 25 year old chassis that was designed back in the 60's!!
We are talking about a world class suspension set up, something that will really amaze people when they get in this car and hit teh turns.
For the majority of V6 owners who will probably never take it to the track, IRS will be great. Great handling, great performance and great ride.
To thoes looking for more from there new $30k car then a quick 1320, IRS will also highten the performance and handling.
I belive that the CTS-V problem has been fixed as it seemed the problem was with the majority of 04 CTS-Vs. I have not heard much from 2005 or 2006.

Wait a second, are they using fuel injection on the new Camaro too?

WTF!! I heard dual Holley's and tunnel ram!!
Where is the 396 option? Are they springs mono or mult leaf?
Hope the use the M-22 in there...ROCK CRUSHER!!

Z28Wilson. Do you go to the dragstrip much? Mustangs are there by the ton.

Soooo the 15 or 20 Mustangs you see at your local dragstrip on the weekends equates to what percentage of the 200,000 Mustangs sold annually?

Yeah, I expect there to be some growing pains with an IRS'd Camaro. I'm sure there will be some wheel hop issues. But as someone else said, let the die-hard drag racers pay to customize the car to their likes/needs. The (hopefully) 80,000 people that buy V6 Camaros every year are looking for the sporty look and the comfortable daily-driven ride. I'd say the business case is closed.

I would only ask that people go back and read reviews of the 4th gen Camaro from it's inception until it's hiatus...(I probably have all of them in the basement)....I'd guess that 99% of the articles lambasted Chevy for still having a straight axle under the car.

Can you imagine the horror if Chevy brought the car back from hiatus and it STILL had the live axle?!?! :death: They'd crucify Chevy for it.

Before you mention the Mustang's live axle......the Mustang didn't go on hiatus....there is a difference in perception here.

I can see it now..."The Camaro returns, but it's just like the one that died in the first place. They didn't fix anything.".....

I would only ask that people go back and read reviews of the 4th gen Camaro from it's inception until it's hiatus...(I probably have all of them in the basement)....I'd guess that 99% of the articles lambasted Chevy for still having a straight axle under the car.

Can you imagine the horror if Chevy brought the car back from hiatus and it STILL had the live axle?!?! :death: They'd crucify Chevy for it.

Before you mention the Mustang's live axle......the Mustang didn't go on hiatus....there is a difference in perception here.

I can see it now..."The Camaro returns, but it's just like the one that died in the first place. They didn't fix anything.".....
Yep.

I bet 99.9% of the reviews for the 2005 Mustang lambasted it for not having an IRS. Somehow, the car manages to stay on the road, or even the racetrack.

That said...and as stated above...and IRS makes a lot of sense to the majority of people, and thus it is no surprise (NOT having it would have been a much bigger surprise). I am most definately a biased drag-race oriented type of person, so it goes without saying that I'd prefer the live axle. I'd also prefer a car that had a curb weight of ~3300 lbs - looks like I'll be SOL on both counts.

Someone mentioned the aftermarket for fitting a live axle in a future IRS Camaro. I'm sure that will bepossible, but unless the chassis is designed to take a live axle, and a live axle that fits is widely available (like it is and has been with the Mustang), it won't be the cheap proposition.

BTW....are pushrods "old technology"? Point: the "old technology" reason is lame and very played - what matters is that WHATEVER is used works like it is supposed to.

I bet 99.9% of the reviews for the 2005 Mustang lambasted it for not having an IRS. Somehow, the car manages to stay on the road, or even the racetrack.

That said...and as stated above...and IRS makes a lot of sense to the majority of people, and thus it is no surprise (NOT having it would have been a much bigger surprise). I am most definately a biased drag-race oriented type of person, so it goes without saying that I'd prefer the live axle. I'd also prefer a car that had a curb weight of ~3300 lbs - looks like I'll be SOL on both counts.

Someone mentioned the aftermarket for fitting a live axle in a future IRS Camaro. I'm sure that will bepossible, but unless the chassis is designed to take a live axle, and a live axle that fits is widely available (like it is and has been with the Mustang), it won't be the cheap proposition.

BTW....are pushrods "old technology"? Point: the "old technology" reason is lame and very played - what matters is that WHATEVER is used works like it is supposed to.


Bob,

I tend to agree with you....with the proper geometry, a live axle can be made to work very well in most conditions....but I still want IRS for it's better handling and ride.

I also have NO problem with pushrods.

By the time the 5th gen hits the ground, the expectations of performance and ride will be even further ahead of the live axle.

I would only ask that people go back and read reviews of the 4th gen Camaro from it's inception until it's hiatus...(I probably have all of them in the basement)....I'd guess that 99% of the articles lambasted Chevy for still having a straight axle under the car.

Only because everybody expected it to have IRS in 1993. All the rumor/concept articles were talking IRS, and some of them were talking DOHC v6. Its all an expectations game, as it still is today.

Bob,

I tend to agree with you....with the proper geometry, a live axle can be made to work very well in most conditions....but I still want IRS for it's better handling and ride.
Can't argue with your personal preference. I like the live axle for strength, lightweight, and "tuneability". But then again, that's just personal preference. :)

I also have NO problem with pushrods.
Neither do I. My point was that a well-thoughtout live axle can be just as "modern" and functional as a well-thoughout pushrod engine (aka....the LSx), and thus calling one "ancient technology" inevitably leads to the other wearing the same moniker.

By the time the 5th gen hits the ground, the expectations of performance and ride will be even further ahead of the live axle.
It really doesn't matter - the car will have IRS. Most folks will love it, and the drag racers among us will either hate it, learn to live with it, or both.

Bob

There should really be a password to get into this section.



:bow:

No kidding we settled this talk a year ago.

Now all the newbies want to bring it up:rolleyes:

Five pages and no one has gotten it right. Oh, and remember this is a concept and could totally change before introduction.
The reason that this concept is shown with IRS has nothing to do with straight lines verses curves, new verses old, or wether some rag editor likes it or not. But everything to do with cost.
This platform is already in the parts bin and will be used to produce several different models on the same assembly line. In other words you could be standing along side the assembly line and have a small SUV, followed by a Camaro, followed by a Chevelle, all on the same line. With this type of production it is NOT cost effective to redesign the platform for a different rear end layout for each car. So we get the benefit of IRS, without increased cost.

:bow:

No kidding we settled this talk a year ago.

Now all the newbies want to bring it up:rolleyes:
I guess there's no need for you to post anymore then?



:p

I guess you guys forgot that the factory TA meant MASSIVE wheel hop in the 4th gens.

I think its interesting everybody is bringing up the CTS wheelhop problems. If you talk to 1/2 the f-body owners here they will say they had major wheel hop issues.....a whole industry of poly tubular LCAs was based pretty much solely on an F-body wheel hop problem. I do not personally think it is a suspension problem at all but a tire compound/driver problem, as none of the f-bods I've ever owned have ever wheel hopped problematically. But I'm just bringing it up because its not like people don't complain about it with our cars too.


You are most certainly right Chris. Any "street" tire will hop. Easiest fix is to throw on a roadrace or full on slick. The way to cure wheel hop on "street" tires will include a spring and damper valving.

Eagle F1's shared by the 4th Gen and 03-04 Cobra's are pretty sticky and they hop like mad.
What I find ODD is people are sayign the Vette doesnt have wheel hop issues. Where have you been? LOL.

Search for CTSv wheelhop and see what ya find.


Z28Wilson There are ALOT more then 20 Mustangs at a given time at our local dragstrip.:cool:

There are a quite a few fast F-bod's religously there too. ;)

FWIW, I was inot flaming ya bud. If it came out that way I do appologize.
When your on the tired side, Its harder to proof read.:o

I guess there's no need for you to post anymore then?



:p


I'm not a NEWBIE:)

I've been in this forum posting nearly everyday for the past 5 years;) :p

im sure whatever they use, im probably gona get one.

Eagle F1's shared by the 4th Gen and 03-04 Cobra's are pretty sticky and they hop like mad.
my eagle F1's dont hop at all :shrug: niether did my comp t/a's - fully stock suspension.

Thumbs up for the password! LOL

The discussion it moot. The car has IRS.

You're right, it does. But what is wrong with discussing it anyway? The car doesn't even exist yet - but we've been discussing it for years, correct?

On the "hop" thing....I've had 2 Cobras with IRS. Both I swapped to live axles. The difference in the amount and severity of wheel hop is indescribable - there is no comparison. Of course, the Cobra IRS was definately "band-aided", but still, there is a huge difference.

PS...I kindly invite all you "newbie haters" to compare join dates. ;)

Urrwhat??! :eek: :shock: :irk: What do the GTO's and the 'Vettes have for diffs?:think: I'm pretty sure the 'Vette unit is pretty stout, but I don't know what the GTO has?:confused: I would LIKE to think GM is gonna put something strong between the driveshaft and the axles this time around?:rolleyes:

Not sure what is in the vette, but the GTO has a spicer M80 (great name for a rear huh), which is roughly similar to a dana 44. The stock center section seems to be good into the 11s, might have even been low 10s before BMR blew theirs up.

OTOH, i've read a couple MAGAZINE reviews where they have blown up the stock rear in a CTSv with stock tires with a stock engine. Yes, it is really that bad.

In the pictures of the rear suspension, it looks just like the CTSv diff in a rear suspension also derivtaive of the CTSv

Someone mentioned the aftermarket for fitting a live axle in a future IRS Camaro. I'm sure that will bepossible, but unless the chassis is designed to take a live axle, and a live axle that fits is widely available (like it is and has been with the Mustang), it won't be the cheap proposition.


Costs money to go fast, but i don't have ot tell you that.

FWIW, there are ford 9" center sections available for the GTO rear if you want easy bolt in bullet proof. There are also now people moving to live axle as they push into the 9s, i think they might be using a kit/parts from Oz. So even though the rear frame wasn't designed for it, apparently it doesn't necessarily need to be a full custom job to do such a thing either. And especially if their is a RWD muscle sedan on the same chassis, within a couple years such kits might even be relatively cost effective.

Of course if it will suck if there is an unimproved CTSv diff in it that needs help just holding stock power. just like the previous fbody, inexcusable to have to spend a couple K off the showroom floor to go racing. If it's solid into the 11s/10s (well at least with upgraded half-shafts and stubs) like the GTO though, IMO it's going to be no skin of the back of 98% of people who will actually race their car, let alone 99.9992% of buyers in general.

What I find ODD is people are sayign the Vette doesnt have wheel hop issues. Where have you been? LOL.
I know I made a statement in my first post about C5's/C6's posting good times in the 1/4 mile. I did NOT mean to imply that they do this without suffering any effects from wheel hop, but my point was they still manage to get good times out of those cars after overcoming the wheel hop issues. I personally know of a guy with a '99 C5 with a sleeved and stroked LS1 that runs low 9's on spray. AFAIK, he hasn't made any major driveline/suspension mods to the car other than a set of M/T ET Streets on the back and skinnies on the front:thumb:.

Even live-axle 1st through 3rd-gens suffered their fair share of wheel hop and traction issues. So the 5th-gen IRS will have its bugs to iron out to make them hook up at the track, but I'm sure sticky tires will go a long way to helping that:yes:. I'm not too worried about the IRS;).

Even though I'm far more concerned about handling then straight line stuff, I'd rather have a solid rear. Why? Weight savings and cost mostly....I'd rather see the new Camaro have an SLA setup up front and a solid axle in the rear versus the MacPherson struts up front with IRS out back. I doesn't make any sense to me that they would go with the IRS for the rear and yet they are too cheap to keep the SLA setup up front, (which from everything I've heard is superior to a MacPherson strut setup)....Whatever though, whatever works, (and the MacPherson strut setup seems to work great for BMW). My main concern is weight...If the new IRS setup weighs alot more than a solid axle would for our application then I say it should stay solid axle...I have no issues with ride quality in my Camaro, if anything it's too soft:shrug:

BTW: I just saw a thread the other day over at Digital Corvettes...From what those guys are saying the C5's and C6's have pretty bad wheelhop...And apparently in one's guy's case the stock diff couldn't handle it, (car had some motor stuff done, ie: AFR heads)...Now I don't know how credible these people actually are considering that a few of the people on the forum apparently don't know what wheelhop is:lol:...It's just something I figured I'd bring up...

Just thought i'd add since people are discussing the # of people who actually race their cars. Last time i went to the track, there was only 1 new style mustang GT there. OTOH, there were 4 new GTOs including myself, of which mine was the slowest, the rest were running 12s all over 110mph. And the track was packed too. Maybe that's not a typical night, but it did strike me as weird to see GTOs outnumber retro mustangs. There were of course a slew of Fox/SN95 cars

Gross generalization coming up, but....maybe more of these first year mustang buyers (who probably all paid over sticker for their car since they were in short supply for a while) are more in it for the image than performance. OTOH, since the GTO isn't an a image car (after all, the haters will claim it's just an overgrown cavlier/grand am), maybe it's buyers tend more towards enthusiasts. I could be way off base, but i doubt.

my eagle F1's dont hop at all :shrug: niether did my comp t/a's - fully stock suspension.


My Eagle F1's (04 Cobra) hopped alot. A big improvment from the 01 Cobra though. Which the 01 was a tad bit worse with wheel hop. Both ride GREAT though.:bow:

Costs money to go fast, but i don't have ot tell you that.

FWIW, there are ford 9" center sections available for the GTO rear if you want easy bolt in bullet proof. There are also now people moving to live axle as they push into the 9s, i think they might be using a kit/parts from Oz. So even though the rear frame wasn't designed for it, apparently it doesn't necessarily need to be a full custom job to do such a thing either. And especially if their is a RWD muscle sedan on the same chassis, within a couple years such kits might even be relatively cost effective.

Of course if it will suck if there is an unimproved CTSv diff in it that needs help just holding stock power. just like the previous fbody, inexcusable to have to spend a couple K off the showroom floor to go racing. If it's solid into the 11s/10s (well at least with upgraded half-shafts and stubs) like the GTO though, IMO it's going to be no skin of the back of 98% of people who will actually race their car, let alone 99.9992% of buyers in general.

I dont' disagree with anything you said. I would only add that it was real nice converting from IRS to a live axle for for a net cost of $0 and a true 2 hour bolt-up installation. Not that its relevant to anything here...just jabbering. :)

You're right, it does. But what is wrong with discussing it anyway? The car doesn't even exist yet - but we've been discussing it for years, correct?

All of our discussions were about which one should it have. That question is now answered. If you want to continue to debate it, go ahead, but it's moot now.

IRS, Why because this Camaro has to compete with more than the Mustang and Charger/Challenger this is a global auto market now. GM also isn't the same company it was in 2002, or 1993 when the 4th gen was in service. I know lots of enthusiasts want Solid axle, but not just any one that will handle the power and drag racing potential the 5th Gen Camaro will have. But money needs to be made on this car and instead of using the cheapest and least equiped GM chose (will choose) to use better than needed equipment that it can sell head to head with competitors from Dearborn, Auburn Hills, and abroad. These are street cars first and foremost. If you want to drag race and be anything more serious than some steet playing buy a solid rear axle or get a cheap older race ready car and have at it.

All of our discussions were about which one should it have. That question is now answered. If you want to continue to debate it, go ahead, but it's moot now.
Well thank you. If the notion hits me, I'll do exactly that. I'm sure you're welcome to not debate it too, if you like.

IRS will benefit the Camaro moreso then it will hurt it. I'm looking forward to have it in there.

I'm not a NEWBIE:)

I've been in this forum posting nearly everyday for the past 5 years;) :p
I've been in here plenty, I just haven't made a career out of posting in all the 'what if' 'why does this' and when will that' threads.

I'm posting a lot more now, sue me. :p

IMHO a solid axle in 2009 for a performance car is just outdated period.

Not if your a ludite, however by the same token so are pushrods - the bottom line however is; if it works it works, and live axles work, just like pushrods.

the first DOHC engine was made in 1912.. it's basically just as old as a pushrod engine..

by contrast.. IRS is probably around 50 years old compared to the solid axle which as been around for more than twice that long

the first DOHC engine was made in 1912.. it's basically just as old as a pushrod engine..

by contrast.. IRS is probably around 50 years old compared to the solid axle which as been around for more than twice that long

Although you may be correct, it is the perception of the public that matters. Pushrods are generally looked at as old tech, and inferior, as are solid axles. This has only started to change in recent years, since there has been so much positive press surrounding GM's LS engines and Chrysler's Hemis. The new Mustang isn't getting too much bad press for having a solid axle either, and I have yet to read one bad review about the new Mustang GT500, solid axle and all. I am one of the guys who wanted the IRS, and am glad we are getting it, but a solid axle is not crap. If it works, it works.

IMO my impression after looking at the pic and seeing the chassis is, GM wants a nice ride, but also more space in the car, somebody pointed out that an IRS allows more interior space (maybe moot with the front-rear drive) and given the shape of the backlight and roof, they might want to fit 4 people in the car rather than have a vestigel rear seat like the mustang which has more in common with a McLaren F1 when it comes to passengers.

Although you may be correct, it is the perception of the public that matters. Pushrods are generally looked at as old tech, and inferior, as are solid axles.


Sadly this is true, a 2 valve pushrod motor has some nice packaging features and does a good job of managing air and fuel mixture without having to resort to crap like port shutters or the like. The only place they really lose out is with valve motion and maybe port alignment. OHC engines have more potential when it comes to aggressive cam profiles, but IMO that advantage is transparent or non-exsistant in a production (read; not a racing engine) engine.