PacerX
12-08-2005, 09:15 AM
I'm posting them here because I've lost myself in the titanic thread made by the first look at the pictures.
I'd like this post to be about things other than "I like it" or "I don't like it"...
Little more thought and constructive stuff is the criteria here..
Fbodfather -
To me, it looks like it has a little bit of Cadillac A&S styling to it, so I may get there for the wrong reasons, but I agree with what you're saying here. It's not really retro - the creases are much too sharp for retro, and the car is much more angular.
Chevrolets TRADITIONALLY looked like Cadillacs with less "bling". It was no accident either. There was a traditional commonality there - not enough to hurt Cadillac's image, but enough to let the casual observer subconciously know they were related. I like it.
The first picture is also a "half & half", with one side of the car looking one way and the other looking another, and I haven't seen the other side yet. I'm guessing that's not an accident. :)
Exterior:
1) The front and rear fascias, as I see them, are going to be problematic. The panel split for the front fender to front fascia is usually done more like the way Grand Prix does it with the fender meeting the headlamps.
The reason that I'm concerned is that it looks like the coach joint for the Corvette (where the rear quarter meets the rear fascia) and that always looks just terrible... it never looks like it fits right, no matter what.
2) The front passenger side foglamp looks like a Photoshop job, because if it isn't one... it's just awful. Hey... could they sink it into the fascia like on a 4th gen??? Then you don't have to worry about flush or gap at all! Looks cool, way easy to do.
3) The hood gap and flush to the fenders and the front fascia are a nightmare with that type of design. It just never, ever, ever looks right, which is why most modern design curl the hood down to meet the front fascia. Then all you have to worry about is a vertical gap and not a gap and flush on FOUR different panels that are going to have to be adjusted.
4) If the front fascia and hood are actually going to look like that, you have to back all the gaps. Meaning that there is an extension in body color underneath the gap (NO EXPOSED FASTENERS THERE) so it doesn't look like a void and make any gap mismatch glaringly obvious. It doesn't work as well as other ways, but it that's the choice made for the interface, it's the best way to hide variation.
Interior:
1) Carrying the dash over into the door panels in that wide sweep is ALWAYS an issue because doors move and door panels are adjusted separately from the IP. Also, because the door gap and flush to the fenders involves moving the whole door around, any adjustment there messes up the adjustment of the IP to door trim.
2) Most people never notice a gap and flush issue from one side of the car to another... unless it has something to do with the dashboard - you're ALWAYS looking at the dashboard... so that fit to the door panel is critical and WILL be an issue unless a whole lot of effort is put in to avoiding a problem there. It may be better to design away from that condition than try to live with it. Think F4 hatchback fit here, and all the problems that gave getting a good fit from one side to the other.
3) The vents that are half-mooned into the IP and half-mooned into the door panel are begging for even more trouble. Think of it this way... now you have not only the dash, the doors, the fenders, and the door panels to contend with for fit... but you also have to throw in the IP and IP structure and the vent itself. That would be VERY tough to get right consistently.
4) Consider diving the glovebox even further under the IP please. The reason being that the gap and flush around the glovebox door is a tough adjustment, and is smack-dab in the line of sight of both the passenger and driver. Your other option is to underflush it into the IP intentionally so that the gap is invisible.
5) Please kill the hard plastic parts that look like loops for a crotch belt on the front seat cushion immediatly. They're hard, and folks have sensitive parts down there...
6) Square vents... round vents... might consider picking one and sticking with it instead of having two separate types.
7) I'm going to BEG GM to bring back the identification plate on the center console describing the engine, horsepower rating, etc... it's just too cool for words and both the Corvette and Camaro should have it. Maybe all the SS cars too... Betcha one time, JUST ONE TIME, of the owner getting to point at the plate and rub some unwashed Camry driver's nose in the fact that the Toyota clone bought a turd of an automobile gets you a repeat customer.
8) Don't be afraid of chrome. Real chrome, not that brushed-aluminum-sprayed-on-pseudo-metal-plastic stuff...
9) If someone took a hard look at a 1960's Impala, that would be a great thing. That IP was absolutely beautiful. The machine-turned aluminum was kind of busy looking, but wow... the radio bezel was a work of art. Go back to your classics for ideas. Regardless of the currently state of the industry, 40 years have passed since that interior was seen.
10) The steering wheel looks great. Don't let anyone pull the decorative features shown off of it, but at the same time you have to be very careful of fit and finish there - the driver will be looking at it all the time.
Those are the few things I can glean from a sketch. But there are a couple of things that surely have to be emphasized -
NO SHARP PARTING LINES ON STUFF PEOPLE PUT THEIR HANDS ON ALL THE TIME - like shifters and console latches and steering wheels and door pulls.
NO EXPOSED FASTENERS.
DO NOT ALLOW THE A PILLAR TO HEADLINER FIT TO SHOW A RAT-HOLE, EVER - it is right in the occupant's eyeline.
The A pillar must interface with the fritter on the windshield consistently. Don't forget this - having the A pillar wowing in and out relative to the fritter line looks awful from the inside.
While GM's at it, narrow up the fritter anyway. Big, wide areas of fritter on glass look bad.
The B pillar upper MUST be overflush to the B pillar lower. If the fit is off a little bit, you'll never see it that way.
Parting lines. Watch the parting lines carefully. They are invaribly ugly, but you have to have them somewhere. Where they are put is the key.
I'd like this post to be about things other than "I like it" or "I don't like it"...
Little more thought and constructive stuff is the criteria here..
Fbodfather -
To me, it looks like it has a little bit of Cadillac A&S styling to it, so I may get there for the wrong reasons, but I agree with what you're saying here. It's not really retro - the creases are much too sharp for retro, and the car is much more angular.
Chevrolets TRADITIONALLY looked like Cadillacs with less "bling". It was no accident either. There was a traditional commonality there - not enough to hurt Cadillac's image, but enough to let the casual observer subconciously know they were related. I like it.
The first picture is also a "half & half", with one side of the car looking one way and the other looking another, and I haven't seen the other side yet. I'm guessing that's not an accident. :)
Exterior:
1) The front and rear fascias, as I see them, are going to be problematic. The panel split for the front fender to front fascia is usually done more like the way Grand Prix does it with the fender meeting the headlamps.
The reason that I'm concerned is that it looks like the coach joint for the Corvette (where the rear quarter meets the rear fascia) and that always looks just terrible... it never looks like it fits right, no matter what.
2) The front passenger side foglamp looks like a Photoshop job, because if it isn't one... it's just awful. Hey... could they sink it into the fascia like on a 4th gen??? Then you don't have to worry about flush or gap at all! Looks cool, way easy to do.
3) The hood gap and flush to the fenders and the front fascia are a nightmare with that type of design. It just never, ever, ever looks right, which is why most modern design curl the hood down to meet the front fascia. Then all you have to worry about is a vertical gap and not a gap and flush on FOUR different panels that are going to have to be adjusted.
4) If the front fascia and hood are actually going to look like that, you have to back all the gaps. Meaning that there is an extension in body color underneath the gap (NO EXPOSED FASTENERS THERE) so it doesn't look like a void and make any gap mismatch glaringly obvious. It doesn't work as well as other ways, but it that's the choice made for the interface, it's the best way to hide variation.
Interior:
1) Carrying the dash over into the door panels in that wide sweep is ALWAYS an issue because doors move and door panels are adjusted separately from the IP. Also, because the door gap and flush to the fenders involves moving the whole door around, any adjustment there messes up the adjustment of the IP to door trim.
2) Most people never notice a gap and flush issue from one side of the car to another... unless it has something to do with the dashboard - you're ALWAYS looking at the dashboard... so that fit to the door panel is critical and WILL be an issue unless a whole lot of effort is put in to avoiding a problem there. It may be better to design away from that condition than try to live with it. Think F4 hatchback fit here, and all the problems that gave getting a good fit from one side to the other.
3) The vents that are half-mooned into the IP and half-mooned into the door panel are begging for even more trouble. Think of it this way... now you have not only the dash, the doors, the fenders, and the door panels to contend with for fit... but you also have to throw in the IP and IP structure and the vent itself. That would be VERY tough to get right consistently.
4) Consider diving the glovebox even further under the IP please. The reason being that the gap and flush around the glovebox door is a tough adjustment, and is smack-dab in the line of sight of both the passenger and driver. Your other option is to underflush it into the IP intentionally so that the gap is invisible.
5) Please kill the hard plastic parts that look like loops for a crotch belt on the front seat cushion immediatly. They're hard, and folks have sensitive parts down there...
6) Square vents... round vents... might consider picking one and sticking with it instead of having two separate types.
7) I'm going to BEG GM to bring back the identification plate on the center console describing the engine, horsepower rating, etc... it's just too cool for words and both the Corvette and Camaro should have it. Maybe all the SS cars too... Betcha one time, JUST ONE TIME, of the owner getting to point at the plate and rub some unwashed Camry driver's nose in the fact that the Toyota clone bought a turd of an automobile gets you a repeat customer.
8) Don't be afraid of chrome. Real chrome, not that brushed-aluminum-sprayed-on-pseudo-metal-plastic stuff...
9) If someone took a hard look at a 1960's Impala, that would be a great thing. That IP was absolutely beautiful. The machine-turned aluminum was kind of busy looking, but wow... the radio bezel was a work of art. Go back to your classics for ideas. Regardless of the currently state of the industry, 40 years have passed since that interior was seen.
10) The steering wheel looks great. Don't let anyone pull the decorative features shown off of it, but at the same time you have to be very careful of fit and finish there - the driver will be looking at it all the time.
Those are the few things I can glean from a sketch. But there are a couple of things that surely have to be emphasized -
NO SHARP PARTING LINES ON STUFF PEOPLE PUT THEIR HANDS ON ALL THE TIME - like shifters and console latches and steering wheels and door pulls.
NO EXPOSED FASTENERS.
DO NOT ALLOW THE A PILLAR TO HEADLINER FIT TO SHOW A RAT-HOLE, EVER - it is right in the occupant's eyeline.
The A pillar must interface with the fritter on the windshield consistently. Don't forget this - having the A pillar wowing in and out relative to the fritter line looks awful from the inside.
While GM's at it, narrow up the fritter anyway. Big, wide areas of fritter on glass look bad.
The B pillar upper MUST be overflush to the B pillar lower. If the fit is off a little bit, you'll never see it that way.
Parting lines. Watch the parting lines carefully. They are invaribly ugly, but you have to have them somewhere. Where they are put is the key.