chassis experts, chime in please...

Since I am not up2date on the latest Sigma/Zeta details, what does the 5th gen chassis resemble most?

It is clearly IRS.

What I can't tell for sure is whether or not it is Unibody. It seems to appear to be, but not like any I've seen before.

Although not chassis related, it appears to have semi-dual exhaust. I see what appears to be pup-cats, like the Vette, and a massive block cat with two input and two outs.

Any input?

greg

This is the underside of the CTS-v ;)

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/img/under/Vu02.jpg
http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/img/under/Vu01.jpg

This is the underside of the CTS-v ;)

you beat me to it.......everyone say it with me.......SIGMA-LITE

you beat me to it.......everyone say it with me.......SIGMA-LITE

:lol: :D

Or as some others have started referring to it as Zegma

Zeta + Sigma = Zegma?:confused:

I dunno….

Sigma-lite works for me!:cool:

Everyone check out the rear section of the CZ6 technical drawing and then look at the CTS-v’s

“Nearly” identical…

Pretty cool stuff!:bow:

it's just WAYYYYYY too similar to sigma......i can't see it being anything else.

Yeah, the Caddy really looks like the underside of the Camaro in those pictures.

Haha...yes.

Zegma.

I am really excited about this car coming out. And I really hope that gm will offer a live axel setup.

Mike

Do y'all think I can post the CZ6 technical drawings?

Haha...yes.

Zegma.


:lol: i say trademark that darn name already ;)

:lol: i say trademark that darn name already ;)

I was joking with evok about doing that :D :p

Do y'all think I can post the CZ6 technical drawings?

maybe PM Jason D or Chris before you do....you've already been warned once ;) :p

I keep telling you guys what it is....but nobody listens. :shrug:

I was joking with evok about doing that :D :p


"Ladies and Gentlemen......Introducing the new for 2009 Camaro Zegma/28" :lol:

I keep telling you guys what it is....but nobody listens. :shrug:


i know you're saying it's Zeta Charlie, but i just keep seeing so many similarities with Sigma in there. what's the difference between the 2?

I keep telling you guys what it is....but nobody listens. :shrug:

go on....

lets just get it out in the open right now!

:p

i know you're saying it's Zeta Charlie, but i just keep seeing so many similarities with Sigma in there. what's the difference between the 2?

Virtually everything. Go over the CAD drawings. Note front and rear suspensions, engine cradle, placement of fuel tank, etc. Diffs might be the same though.

I am really excited about this car coming out. And I really hope that gm will offer a live axel setup.

Mike

Dont count on it, if you was a live axle you will be looking at the aftermarket

Virtually everything. Go over the CAD drawings. Note front and rear suspensions, engine cradle, placement of fuel tank, etc. Diffs might be the same though.

hmmmm....

Virtually everything. Go over the CAD drawings. Note front and rear suspensions, engine cradle, placement of fuel tank, etc. Diffs might be the same though.


we actually have a CTS at my shop.....i'm gonna put it in the air tomorrow and bring copies of the CZ6 pics. i belive you Charlie, but it never hurts to look.

This is the underside of the CTS-v ;)

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/img/under/Vu02.jpg
http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/img/under/Vu01.jpg

This is just what the drawings look like...

Now the question is: Will it stay on this platform, or is this just a donor platform for the concept?

I dont think the NAIAS concept is on this platform

This is just what the drawings look like...

Now the question is: Will it stay on this platform, or is this just a donor platform for the concept?

Well, that is not exactly what the Camaro underside pictures look like. I see an upper and a lower control arm on the front wheels of that Caddilac.

The CAD drawing and what's under the concept will be different platforms.

The CADs are more representative of the production car.

It should be a great car quality and performance-wise. We'll see I guess.

im looking at it and while the front looks pretty different, the rear looks almost identical. Im trying to compare every last inch of the ctsv and CAD drawings and im just not seeing much, if any, difference

For perspective the only suspension shot of VE.

http://common.weblogsinc.com/common/images/5338013812490870.JPG

So the Z in CZ6 stands for Zeta?

im looking at it and while the front looks pretty different, the rear looks almost identical. Im trying to compare every last inch of the ctsv and CAD drawings and im just not seeing much, if any, difference

The give away for me are the front subframes. They are identical in shape and size.

The caddy has a different front rack and gas tank setup.

the gas tank setup looks identical to me :confused:

The CAD is Sigma....look at it again Charlie. Yes somebody said the A-arms look different but the CAD doesn't even show A-arms at all, so that's not really comparable.

The fuel tank, the rear subframe, the rear lower A-arms, exhaust placement.....Maybe we're looking at different drawings because it all looks virtually identical to from behind the front subframe all the way back. I'll grant you the front subframe looks different, but even those two subframe rails that extend under the passenger area are the same and appear to be in the same place.

The give away for me are the front subframes. They are identical in shape and size.

The caddy has a different front rack and gas tank setup.


I don't know, they look completely different to me.

The CAD is Sigma....look at it again Charlie. Yes somebody said the A-arms look different but the CAD doesn't even show A-arms at all, so that's not really comparable.

The fuel tank, the rear subframe, the rear lower A-arms, exhaust placement.....Maybe we're looking at different drawings because it all looks virtually identical to from behind the front subframe all the way back. I'll grant you the front subframe looks different, but even those two subframe rails that extend under the passenger area are the same and appear to be in the same place.

I've confirmed with someone more knowledgeable on this subject than me, that the CAD is NOT Sigma. Don't make me give you the winkey, Chris. :D




Oh, what the heck........;)

I've confirmed with someone more knowledgeable on this subject than me, that the CAD is NOT Sigma. Don't make me give you the winkey, Chris. :D

Oh, what the heck........;)

OK...processing................................... .................................got it!

Now the question is: Will it stay on this platform, or is this just a donor platform for the concept?

Ask yourself this:
Why would GM need to create a 3D rendered engineered design for the donor platform on a concept car?

Wait for it....





;)

Well, if this CZ6 thing is clearly what our future RWD cars will be based on, I guess that a lot of us got our wish for a MODERN IRS set up. I can assume that parts will be beefed up since Camaro drivers probably will beat on the cars a lot more then even CTS-V drivers.
When my customer comes in with his GTO, I will also take pictures of the underside.

Ask yourself this:
Why would GM need to create a 3D rendered engineered design for the donor platform on a concept car?

Wait for it....


;)

Because it will be a 07 MY ;) available late 06. ;)






;)

Because it will be a 07 MY ;) available late 06. ;)


We would've heard from suppliers already. I imagine when RFQ's go out, it will be a matter of hours before that info leaks.

Yeah, I know. Just contributing to more... ;) ;) ;)

Well, I can only assume that this means that work is pretty much done on chassis design. All it will take is an offical production sheetmetal and the usual testing of durability....give it 18 months. :) That puts it mid 2007 as a MY2008, and if thats the case, its just in time for GM's 100th bday...

Well, I can only assume that this means that work is pretty much done on chassis design. All it will take is an offical production sheetmetal and the usual testing of durability....give it 18 months. :) That puts it mid 2007 as a MY2008, and if thats the case, its just in time for GM's 100th bday...


but wouldn't it be nice if they can sneak it in as a 2007 1/2 and give us a 40th anniversary.......

Yeah I'm guessing mid 2007 as well :D

The CAD is Sigma....look at it again Charlie. Yes somebody said the A-arms look different but the CAD doesn't even show A-arms at all, so that's not really comparable.

The fuel tank, the rear subframe, the rear lower A-arms, exhaust placement.....Maybe we're looking at different drawings because it all looks virtually identical to from behind the front subframe all the way back. I'll grant you the front subframe looks different, but even those two subframe rails that extend under the passenger area are the same and appear to be in the same place.


BZZZZZZZZZZZTTTT, wrong answer.

I have to run to a meeting, but the front suspension in the CAD drawings is IDENTICAL to the GTO except front steer instead of rear steer placement of the rack.

Yousaid, the CAD doesn't show an A-Arm, butit does. You can clearly see the red circle that represents the strut. the little green line that runs from the sub-frame to the strut is the lateral locating link, and the orange diagnonal link is the longitudinal locator, with eth purple diagonal the sway bar.

I have to run to a meeting, but just do a quick search for the GTO underbody shots on the web and you'll saee exactly what i'm talking about.


The rear though looks a lot more like the CTS. Doesn't mean that's what it is though. The GTO rear suspension looks like traditional front A-arms turned sideways. The new VZ (or VE, i never remember which is the new one) might have leveraged the sigma rear suspension in it's redesign. from what i understand, the GTO rear suspension is antique, designed in the late 80s, early 90s, so it was due for an upgrade.

meeting on hold, so after a quick google search:

http://pontiac.jbcarpages.com/GTO/2004/Bilder/2004%20Pontiac%20GTO%20Blue%20Exhaust%20system.jpg

Look at the front suspsension and try to tell me that anything except the rack location is different. Ok, the subframe in the CAD goes back a bit further too, but otherwise, the strut and locating link/sway bar are a dead match.

I can't honestly tell Ed, the beauty covers on the GTO obscure the front subframe too much. Pretty clear to me from the floorpan back is def. NOT GTO though. I'll do some more comparison.

I can't honestly tell Ed, the beauty covers on the GTO obscure the front subframe too much. Pretty clear to me from the floorpan back is def. NOT GTO though. I'll do some more comparison.

How bout in red? :D

http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/PontiacGTO/Images/Undercarriage.jpg

Well, if this CZ6 thing is clearly what our future RWD cars will be based on, I guess that a lot of us got our wish for a MODERN IRS set up. I can assume that parts will be beefed up since Camaro drivers probably will beat on the cars a lot more then even CTS-V drivers.


That's a big assumption for the company that brought us the 7.5" 10-bolt. LOL

:cool: I can't honestly tell Ed, the beauty covers on the GTO obscure the front subframe too much. Pretty clear to me from the floorpan back is def. NOT GTO though. I'll do some more comparison.

Tain't no beauty cover. Thats a skid plate for running over kangaroos and other such critters :cool:


Thanks for the better pic stars, helps that it's facing the same way as the other pics too. No doubt in my mind the CZ6 is evolved from the GTO front suspension.

The rear floorpan is radically different as is the suspension, but that's to accomodate the US spec gas tank location. Recall my gas tank is in my trunk. Will come in handy post-apocalypse though, easier to convert to dual 55gallon drums for running the wasteland.

I will laugh if (when) they put the glass CTS rear end in the 5th gen. If you thought the 7.5" was bad, how about shattering the stock diff on street tires with a stock engine. I will NOT trade my GTO in on a 5th gen if it has such a weakness no matter how much i love it. Needing to upgrade the rear off the showroom floor to handle stock power and tires is pathetic.

I'm hoping it uses the GTO's rear end. Isn't it a Dana?