For everyone complaining that it looks like all the concepts........

let me just remind everyone saying "we've seen this car before", "it looks like all the concepts that we've seen", "this is just like all the pics that have been here for months"..........

a reason it looks like all the pics we've been seeing for months. most of the concept drawings are from people that were at the styling clinic or inspired by people who talked about what they saw like evok. we don't know how old these pictures are. this could have been taken 3 months after the clinic or 3 months ago.

sorry to rant, but like Red said before, lets hold our final judgement for the wecast/pics/simulcast from NAIAS before we flame GM for something that we, hardcore enthusiasts with "connections" to in the know people, have seen drawings of before.

LOL. It looks like all the concepts. Gee, I wonder why? Why do people make concepts anyway? Maybe so they'll eventually have an influence on the car's design? Some people have to understand that the biggest criticism of the 4th gen is that it was impractical and went too far to the sports car side. Look at the value of 67-69 Camaros and Firebirds these days. There's even a company doing re-pops of them for crying out loud.

Why does the Mustang sell? Because it is based on a car whose sales went through the roof in 1965.

Why will the new Camaro sell? Because it's based on a car that sold like freaking crazy and commands ridiculous collector prices right now.


We're going after the 6cyl market here. A car for women who want a sharp car that is reasonably priced and has some resemblance of practicality. For that we get a V8 musclecar version that kills Mustangs and everything else.

Hooray.

Well for those of us that didn't like all the concepts before, looking like those concepts is still a very bad thing. :p

You're right though, I'm sure it will look much better in person. If it's anything like the leaked pics it won't be outstanding or original, but it will probably be OK.

Some of us wanted more than "OK" for our beloved f-bod.

I won't get too down until January.

let me just remind everyone saying "we've seen this car before", "it looks like all the concepts that we've seen", "this is just like all the pics that have been here for months"..........

[RANT=] a reason it looks like all the pics we've been seeing for months. most of the concept drawings are from people that were at the styling clinic or inspired by people who talked about what they saw like evok. we don't know how old these pictures are. this could have been taken 3 months after the clinic or 3 months ago.



I wish that was the case but that is not true. It looks like all the other concepts because it is a 1st gen with cleaner lines and no chrome. It looks like other concepts because a retro design is easy because you have a full design in which to base it off. Most of the designs were done a great deal of time before any clinic.

what kills me is a few people said they really liked johnnyGmachines drawing but don't like the clay which looks ALOT like it.

and some of the anti-retro boys (Jason E!!!!!!!!) love the thing.

like i said before, i'm holding my judgement til NYIAS in April when i see the thing up close and can tell Scott in person what i like and dislike about it.

Most of the designs were done a great deal of time before any clinic.

Crispey's, Kris H's, johnnygmachine's, danno's, and evok's words that inspired these and a few more were all done after the car was clinic'd

and some of the anti-retro boys (Jason E!!!!!!!!) love the thing.

That makes me wonder. I've been thinking, are people going to say they love it just because they've waited so long to see anything? I've had the opposite reaction, it's been so long it better damn well blow my skirt up.

If people have a lukewarm reaction, is GM going back to the drawing boards? Do people just want any Camaro out and will say it's great just to see it on the roads?

Personally, I'd rather see the whole name stay dead than see a Camaro I wouldn't want to buy. Take another twenty years to do it, just make sure it's done right. That'd be a whole lot of Mustangs they could've sold in the mean time though.

I don't think it looks quite like the concept you mention turbo, it's more retro and more 1st Gen. The front of that concept is way better than the real thing. I like the sides on both. I dislike the rear of this car and circular taillights that his had IIRC. It's average instead of new and outstanding.

I believe I did say that Johnny's was nicely done and such, but you don't see me removing the message to GM in my sig, lol...I don't want a retro Camaro, and whether one looks nice and I admit that it looks nice doesn't mean that it's what I want the next Camaro to be...Besides, Johnny's drawing is quite a bit more streamlined than the clay pics...Regardless though, I don't see it as being a Camaro, or at least not my Camaro.

That makes me wonder. I've been thinking, are people going to say they love it just because they've waited so long to see anything? I've had the opposite reaction, it's been so long it better damn well blow my skirt up.

If people have a lukewarm reaction, is GM going back to the drawing boards? Do people just want any Camaro out and will say it's great just to see it on the roads?

Personally, I'd rather see the whole name stay dead than see a Camaro I wouldn't want to buy. Take another twenty years to do it, just make sure it's done right. That'd be a whole lot of Mustangs they could've sold in the mean time though.


i think Jason's reaction was sincere(he did complain about a few things). i doubt this car will get a lukewarm reaction, it really is a well executed car, but like Red said, some will love it, some will hate it, and some will be indifferent til they see it in person. alot of diehard F-body guys i know hated the 4th gen's looks when it came out, but it grew on them in a relatively short time.

That makes me wonder. I've been thinking, are people going to say they love it just because they've waited so long to see anything? I've had the opposite reaction, it's been so long it better damn well blow my skirt up.



That's what i have been wondering.

A few years ago, there was a poll where people were asked if they wanted a retro Camaro or a fresh Camaro and nearly 80% said they wanted a fresh Camaro design. So what happened? Where are those 80%? Did they change thier minds? Did they see the concept and think that the retro design is good? Or are they just so happy to see a new Camaro that they really don't care what it is as long as it is comming out?

That makes me wonder. I've been thinking, are people going to say they love it just because they've waited so long to see anything? I've had the opposite reaction, it's been so long it better damn well blow my skirt up.


Wow, it's almost like your reading my mind or something, lol;) When I first saw it I was just excited to be seeing a "new Camaro". At that point it probably wouldn't have mattered what it looked like so much....what was important was that it was something I'd been dying to see for so long and now I was finally seeing it. Now that I've had a day to reflect on it though, I'm less than pleased with it. But even more, I'm less than convinced that our new Camaro would really be styled like that. Personally, I still have alot of faith that GM has something ready for Jan 9th that is going to blow everyone's doors off:thumb:

alot of diehard F-body guys i know hated the 4th gen's looks when it came out, but it grew on them in a relatively short time.

I can't think of when a lot of diehard f-body guys said "hey, it's like the Mustang" before. That's what the general wants the public to say but as a diehard it's almost embarrassing.

I'm going to have some egg on my face. When the new Mustang came out, a lot of people around me were negative to the retro theme. A "cop out" was a term I heard a lot of. These weren't car people. I of course said, GM will hopefully make the car evolutionary like the 'Vette. I mean, that's a car they've actually been getting right!

Now that I've had a day to reflect on it though, I'm less than pleased with it. But even more, I'm less than convinced that our new Camaro would really be styled like that. Personally, I still have alot of faith that GM has something ready for Jan 9th that is going to blow everyone's doors off:thumb:

I feel the same way. What we are seeing is not a finnished concept so there is still hope, but at the same time, I would believe that the concept we will see will be almost identicle to the passenger side design. All of the exterior shots are from that side which makes me think that this is the design that was given a green light. Also, if this was just a concept that was not really close to the real thing, GM wouldn't be so pissed.

I feel the same way. What we are seeing is not a finnished concept so there is still hope, but at the same time, I would believe that the concept we will see will be almost identicle to the passenger side design. All of the exterior shots are from that side which makes me think that this is the design that was given a green light. Also, if this was just a concept that was not really close to the real thing, GM wouldn't be so pissed.

i would think that this car has had some tweaks done since those photos were taken, but we won't know til January.

and as for GM being pissed, wether this is the car we are gonna see or not, i don't blame them for throwing a fit seeing as how confidential documents wereleaked from inside the company.

When the new Mustang came out, a lot of people around me were negative to the retro theme. A "cop out" was a term I heard a lot of. These weren't car people.

Well the new Mustangs have been selling like crazy since they first came out, so obviously those people around you don't represent a majority of the sporty car buying public. I know how much you and some other people want a car that is perfect in your eyes, but GM really needs a car that a lot of people will buy and be passionate about. The 4th gen wasn't that car.

Sorry to all who are unhappy, but I gotta say, I dig the hell out of what we have been shown. I can't wait to see the concept in sheetmetal.

Well the new Mustangs have been selling like crazy since they first came out, so obviously those people around you don't represent a majority of the sporty car buying public. I know how much you and some other people want a car that is perfect in your eyes, but GM really needs a car that a lot of people will buy and be passionate about. The 4th gen wasn't that car.

Mustangs have been selling like crazy long before the retro model came out. Being the only car in its class probably doesn't hurt either... not a whole lot of alternatives and now there still won't be ;) One of GM's biggest problems is that they are followers, not leaders. Want to change something for the better? Be a leader, not a follower. Following aint working. It's obvious you like retro, I don't.

The Corvette is one of the success stories to come from GM through some dark times. I LOVE midyear Corvettes but I would be appalled if the C6 was a blatant interpretation of that. It's too bad the Camaro couldn't follow in big brother's successful foot steps.

A while back a lot of people here said they didn't want retro. Even now on this Camaro site, which has been eagerly awaiting a new car for years there are people that agree with what I'm saying.

This is just styling which is a small part of the car, maybe the rest will surprise me. I will never be comfortable with the styling though.

If the rest of the car is great maybe we could get a car to lust after by making the Firebird? I know people have mentioned this but after seeing the concept, I REALLY want a Firebird. Modern please!

Personally, I thought that the pictures were much less retro than I feared. I saw cues, but I did not intially think it was a ripped of '69. Chrispy's drawing was way too retro for me. This one had some nice hard creases (similar to Cadillac) that made me very happy.

Personally, I thought that the pictures were much less retro than I feared. I saw cues, but I did not intially think it was a ripped of '69. Chrispy's drawing was way too retro for me. This one had some nice hard creases (similar to Cadillac) that made me very happy.


alot of people have been noticing the Caddy A&S influence in this concept now that they've had time to process everything we've seen. i'm starting to notice it myself now that we have a pic without the watermark.

I feel the same way. What we are seeing is not a finnished concept so there is still hope, but at the same time, I would believe that the concept we will see will be almost identicle to the passenger side design. All of the exterior shots are from that side which makes me think that this is the design that was given a green light. Also, if this was just a concept that was not really close to the real thing, GM wouldn't be so pissed.

I'm thinking just the opposite. The Drivers side they /didn't/ show much (wonder why).

The Drivers side looks more detailed and finished. The passenger side looks photoshopped on there.

I expect the Drivers side with SS style tailights on there... for the concept! ;)

alot of people have been noticing the Caddy A&S influence in this concept now that they've had time to process everything we've seen. i'm starting to notice it myself now that we have a pic without the watermark.

And it makes me very happy. There was adrawing I saw on here one time that was heavily A&S that I absolutely loved. I can't find it back.

I'm thinking just the opposite. The Drivers side they /didn't/ show much (wonder why).

The Drivers side looks more detailed and finished. The passenger side looks photoshopped on there.

I expect the Drivers side with SS style tailights on there... for the concept! ;)


Yeah, I changed my opinion since I posted that.

IMO to a certain degree GM is doomed to some degree of failure with this car's appearance. I'm not saying it won't look great. However, because of the really long gap in production expectations have been raised, possibly beyond what is realistic.

We've had 3 years of enthusiast photoshops to frame everybody's expectations. There's no way GM can meet that. Even if they give us exactly what we want now everybody will say "gee, it looks like all the concepts" Of course it does, because that's what we said we wanted.

If the car had come out in 2003 then we would have all be suprised and there wouldn't have been nearly as much anticipation and speculation and photoshopping going on.

IMO to a certain degree GM is doomed to some degree of failure with this car's appearance. I'm not saying it won't look great. However, because of the really long gap in production expectations have been raised, possibly beyond what is realistic.

We've had 3 years of enthusiast photoshops to frame everybody's expectations. There's no way GM can meet that. Even if they give us exactly what we want now everybody will say "gee, it looks like all the concepts" Of course it does, because that's what we said we wanted.

If the car had come out in 2003 then we would have all be suprised and there wouldn't have been nearly as much anticipation and speculation and photoshopping going on.


you're right Chris. if those pics came out 2 years ago, we would all be looking at them very differently, but alot has gone on since then.

IMO to a certain degree GM is doomed to some degree of failure with this car's appearance. I'm not saying it won't look great. However, because of the really long gap in production expectations have been raised, possibly beyond what is realistic.

We've had 3 years of enthusiast photoshops to frame everybody's expectations. There's no way GM can meet that. Even if they give us exactly what we want now everybody will say "gee, it looks like all the concepts" Of course it does, because that's what we said we wanted.

If the car had come out in 2003 then we would have all be suprised and there wouldn't have been nearly as much anticipation and speculation and photoshopping going on.


It's true that expectations are high but that is the only way it was going to be. GM should know that when a popular car is killed off and rumors of a comeback have been circulating for years that people are going to want to be blown out of thier seats. I think the biggest problem with the design is not that we have seen many other renditions, it's that the Mustang did it first. Now a Challenger is on the way and will most likely debut before the Camaro. So now the Camaro is a "me too" car more than ever and it will have to be that much better to compete with the other two. The way things are going for Chrysler, we better watch out for the Challenger because it could really be mean. I hope GM doesn't go for just the volume sales and forget to compete with the best of Ford and Chrysler. If the Camaro fails to do that, then I think the car will be a failure to many.

Honestly I hope that the new camaro doesn't look like that.

So now the Camaro is a "me too" car more than ever and it will have to be that much better to compete with the other two. The way things are going for Chrysler, we better watch out for the Challenger because it could really be mean. I hope GM doesn't go for just the volume sales and forget to compete with the best of Ford and Chrysler. If the Camaro fails to do that, then I think the car will be a failure to many.
^ ^ ^ agree with you 100% :cool:.

Also Buttercup, I'm with you on just about everything you've said. I would have liked to have seen a "new" Camaro as well. Not that what we're getting (a mostly retro-"ish" car) is a BAD looking car, it's not, but there are really not many "new" ideas on it:no:. The retro thing has been done (by Ford and Chrysler), and so has a 1st-gen Camaro:rolleyes:. The 'Vette on the other hand, like you said, has only evolved and gotten better. It hasn't reverted back to something it "used to be", although it still maintains certain Corvette traits (ie: 4 round tail-lights, 2-seater only).

I'm still looking forward to Detroit and seeing the REAL THING, but I just hope that I don't have to "warm up to it" the way these recent pictures have made me feel?:shrug: