Some thoughts on the pictures........

First.....thank you Jason and Chris for 'doing the right thing"........you could have increased your web traffic by a huge margin yesterday, but you once again have proved to many many people that you are --both of you-- a class act. I'm truly grateful.

To my fellow enthusiasts. I think I'm pleased, for the most part, as to the comments I'm hearing. Yes, there will always be a few that have harsh words....that's to be expected. I still look forward with great relish to watching the faces and expressions of my fellow enthusiasts as they see the concept in person for the first time....(you have no idea of how much I look forward to it.......)

Now.........why am I upset? (let's forget the Corp. position for a moment, shall we?)

How many times have you met someone......and your first impression was "Well, if he/she wasn't

>all sweaty/dressed poorly/bad-hair-day/20 pounds overweight/bad mood/ --insert anything bad here -- <

...........he/she would be a knockout...........

See what I mean? First impressions are oh-so important. We did not get the chance to control a first impression. The pictures you saw are obviously not of a finished product.

WE won't go into the financial impact this will have on GM....but suffice to say it will.

We do want your input.......but there's a proper way to get that. Your input, believe it or not, has been somewhat compromised in that, again, you did not see a finished product.

Moreover, it started a firestorm of controversy on several sites..and people started flinging insults back and forth.....and in a few cases, some close friends were summarily flamed beyond recognition. Because of someones' (that's plural, by the way) poor judgement, people are now mad at each other. That is even MORE unfortunate.

So........yup.......I am beyond angry at the GM or contract employee that allowed these photos to be posted. I suppose I will eventually lose some of my anger at a few webmasters that also played a part in this scenario.

All that said..........I hope you like what you saw. It is not the finished concept...and moreover, you can never adequately or fairly judge a product by a picture......esp. one like you saw. I hope that each of you will get to see the concept in person as it tours the country to several autoshows and events.......and that you are even more excited and enthused.

I hope that there's a lot of good that comes from this unfortunate experience......and that now, most, if not all of you can plainly see that 'The Future Indeed Looks Bright!"

Good thing its not finished... It kind of looks ghey with those exhaust tips...

Firebirdv6.com still has them on their site. You may want to contact them..

May we openly discuss it here, Scott? (without actually posting the pictures, I mean) I have nothing but positive things to say, and I can hardly control myself with joy even though it wasn't finished.

Thanks for the comments Scott. You pretty much hit the points I had guessed you would.

I'm going to link to this thread from LS1LT1 and MTFBA since there are plenty of folks there with questions too.

First.....thank you Jason and Chris for 'doing the right thing"........you could have increased your web traffic by a huge margin yesterday, but you once again have proved to many many people that you are --both of you-- a class act. I'm truly grateful.

To my fellow enthusiasts. I think I'm pleased, for the most part, as to the comments I'm hearing. Yes, there will always be a few that have harsh words....that's to be expected. I still look forward with great relish to watching the faces and expressions of my fellow enthusiasts as they see the concept in person for the first time....(you have no idea of how much I look forward to it.......)

Now.........why am I upset? (let's forget the Corp. position for a moment, shall we?)

How many times have you met someone......and your first impression was "Well, if he/she wasn't

>all sweaty/dressed poorly/bad-hair-day/20 pounds overweight/bad mood/ --insert anything bad here -- <

...........he/she would be a knockout...........

See what I mean? First impressions are oh-so important. We did not get the chance to control a first impression. The pictures you saw are obviously not of a finished product.

WE won't go into the financial impact this will have on GM....but suffice to say it will.

We do want your input.......but there's a proper way to get that. Your input, believe it or not, has been somewhat compromised in that, again, you did not see a finished product.

Moreover, it started a firestorm of controversy on several sites..and people started flinging insults back and forth.....and in a few cases, some close friends were summarily flamed beyond recognition. Because of someones' (that's plural, by the way) poor judgement, people are now mad at each other. That is even MORE unfortunate.

So........yup.......I am beyond angry at the GM or contract employee that allowed these photos to be posted. I suppose I will eventually lose some of my anger at a few webmasters that also played a part in this scenario.

All that said..........I hope you like what you saw. It is not the finished concept...and moreover, you can never adequately or fairly judge a product by a picture......esp. one like you saw. I hope that each of you will get to see the concept in person as it tours the country to several autoshows and events.......and that you are even more excited and enthused.

I hope that there's a lot of good that comes from this unfortunate experience......and that now, most, if not all of you can plainly see that 'The Future Indeed Looks Bright!"

Scott,
Just to let you know, I've been hearing the "Keep the Faith" thing forever, and to be quite honest, I was as aggrivated hearing it as I'm sure you were saying it. That being said, I'm a 20 something who recently out of college, is finally making "decent" money, and am looking for new cars right now. The fact that these pictures came out has given me inspiration to purchase something used in the meanwhile, and put all of my extra cash somewhere safe so I can be the first on the block with a 5th gen.

It may have been a "boo boo" to say the least, but I now have a renewed faith, and WILL be driving one in the near future.....Marina Blue....White Stripes....6 speed, that's all. :)

Keep up the good work, I'm sure it was difficult the last few years.

*edit*
also, is it safe to say that these "Embargoed" pictures will be able to be freely posted once the NAIAS has opened, or will the still be considered "CONFIDENTIAL"

Your thoughts complement what I’ve been saying since yesterday.

I knew after looking at it for 10 minutes it was a clinic car and not the real thing.

I will disagree with you and say personally the first impression for me is not changed.

What I saw looks almost exactly like 3 concept renditions that have been floating around here for months. Shoot, some of the drawings had a better quality then what I saw yesterday.

Honestly after letting this sink in after a night of sleep I feel very positive and my passion for this car has only grown.

Unfortunately not everyone on the internet is as educated like the people here about how these concepts work.

But I will hold my final judgment until the Dallas Auto Show.

And Scott if you’d like, I will personally stand next to the concept with you and give my personal constructive thoughts then.

I’ll end this post saying I’ve had a huge smile that wont go away since yesterday.

It may have been a "boo boo" to say the least, but I now have a renewed faith, and WILL be driving one in the near future.....Marina Blue....White Stripes....6 speed, that's all. :)



I think that's the silver lining so to speak (pun intended for those of you who saw the pics).

I've talked to many people since the story broke about the concept at NAIAS and many have said "whatever, I'll believe it when I see it".

The events of the past 24 hours have definitely changed some attitudes.

Well Red, my impression of the car is that even though it does bear quite a resemblance to a 69, it is not a completely retro car in the same fashion that the Mustang and Challenger are. It does have new facets to it which I like. For example, I think the taillights are pretty cool. Overall, I think the car is pretty nice, and I am one of the guys who was against complete retro. I don't really see that much 2nd, 3rd, or 4th gen in it though, unless you really nitpick it. I thought you mentioned the car would have alittle bit of every generation. Perhaps the real car at NAIAS will be a good bit different from this one (although obviously the overall shape is going to be the same.)

I think that's the silver lining so to speak (pun intended for those of you who saw the pics).

I've talked to many people since the story broke about the concept at NAIAS and many have said "whatever, I'll believe it when I see it".

The events of the past 24 hours have definitely changed some attitudes.

That’s true, we have all been down in the dumps about this car over the past few years,

I do think the surprise would have been better for the general public if the cat wasn’t let out of the bag early.

Here's my $.02 ...

Pictures - tasteful :thumb:

Being leaked - dis-tasteful :think:

I'm still looking forward to Detroit :yes:.

I think those taillights were hideious....

I'm gunna burst! Like a kid who hears his parents generating hype about a surprise vacation spot our big gift they're getting - that they know and you don't.

ARGH!!! :D I can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Theres going to be NO looking at pics for me!

I'll hold my post and wait for the official unveiling, no matter how much sanity I lose in the meantime!

constructive criticizm as well as positive comments are always welcomed.

Constructive means just that. It is OK to say "I don't like it and this is why--..>insert reasons here<"...........However, let's keep it clean. I really don't want to see people clobbering each other over differing opinions...we're all friends here, agreed???

And again I'm gonna repeat one of my mantras: Do not put forth final judgement before seeing it in person!

By the way.......where in Sam Hill is Z284EVER???? or Guy?

One last thing...the car is not retro.......it really isn't at all in person.

I noticed a lot of similiarity to the 99 GTO Concept, which BTW I really liked and wished Pontiac would have built that concept.

The roofline, c and b pillar and rear 1/4 panels look very similar.

I think the next gen GTO will look alot like the "Camaro" concept. If it doesn't it damn well should. :D

Good thing its not finished... It kind of looks ghey with those exhaust tips...

Firebirdv6.com still has them on their site. You may want to contact them..


If its the pics of the white car with confirdential, you are crazy!! Bada$$!

What I like:

Overall stance
Staggered wheel/tire sizes (I realize that's not likely for production due to costs involved to the target customer for tires, rotation, etc.)
Windshield angle
Wheel design
I like the driver's side nose and the pass. side tail. The driver's side tail reminds me of an early '80's Supra.

What I don't like:
Not enough blending of other generations. I don't have a problem with the 1st gen heavy design, but not even evo to go with all the retro
Needs a lip spoiler on the trunk
Not thrilled with the tail lights. Either rounds or a more conventional rectangle would be better.

Overall I think it looks great.

I think those taillights were hideious....

If you’re going to interject what you don’t like about the concept why don’t you do it constructively?

You don’t like the exhaust or taillights?

Well what would you do to change them?

What would make them better?

Don’t just post one line statements that things are “ghey”

Its insulting to people who have worked very hard on this car.

You know darn well this site it top notch and we should keep the comments top notch too.

I’m not trying to flame you just trying to keep thins constructive.

Everything we say is very important.

By the way.......where in Sam Hill is Z284EVER???? or Guy?

One last thing...the car is not retro.......it really isn't at all in person.

Sam has been around a little bit, I have no idea where Guy has been

constructive criticizm as well as positive comments are always welcomed.

Constructive means just that. It is OK to say "I don't like it and this is why--..>insert reasons here<"...........However, let's keep it clean. I really don't want to see people clobbering each other over differing opinions...we're all friends here, agreed???

And again I'm gonna repeat one of my mantras: Do not put forth final judgement before seeing it in person!




I was not thrilled with the pics,but I see possibilities.The right side nose is very nice.I like the roofline and the fact that it has a trunk.Hood bulge is nice.coke bottle shape could be toned down a bit .I think the overly large exhaust with flat edge on top should be removed.oval or rectangular tips would look better..Looking foward to seeing the final rendition.:)

I really can't think of a better design for the concept. I mean talk about hitting the nail on the head, that thing was absolutely gorgeous, even if it wasn't very symmetrical ;) When you guys decide what theme you're going to go with, this car will be among the most beautiful ever created.

If you’re going to interject what you don’t like about the concept why don’t you do it constructively?

You don’t like the exhaust or taillights?

Well what would you do to change them?

What would make them better?

Don’t just post one line statements that things are “ghey”

Its insulting to people who have worked very hard on this car.

You know darn well this site it top notch and we should keep the comments top notch too.

I’m not trying to flame you just trying to keep thins constructive.

Everything we say is very important.

Thank you, Stars1010............no, you cannot have the keys to it, but I look forward to seeing you in Dallas and getting your thoughts when you see it in person.

To certain others:

--not to offend anyone, but stop using words like "ghey" and "looks like ass".....it really hurts your reputation with a lot of people.

I haven't commented at all on the pictures, but I suppose this thread allows for comments now.

These comments are from a long-time anti-retro person, so take it for what it is worth...

1) It looks pretty much the way I expected it to... except maybe it has some nice, sharper creases than I thought it might. At least the passenger side of the mock up. The drivers side, from what can be seen, looks much softer.

2) I don't see anything but 1st Gen influence on this car to be honest.

3) Not really crazy about the taillamps... Round might look better. They look a bit clunky to me.

4) Not sure about where the hood meets the grille... looks kind of "chopped off" to me.


I understand this is a mock up, and I expect at lot of "cleaning up" on a real car. But, I think you can get a good feel for the overall styling.

Overall, I think it looks pretty decent if I try to take away my general dislike for retro styling... I came to the realization some time ago that the retro thing was going to happen no matter what. I just get the "me too" feeling that I got when I saw Challenger... basically trying to follow in Mustang's footsteps.

That said, these photos are undated... for all we know, major to minor changes could have been made since this was done (haven't we said before that there were as many as 5 front ends being worked on)... of course, by the reaction we have seen from GM, it seems that this is it.

This post probably sounds more negative than I want it to. I think it does look good overall.

Thank you, Stars1010............no, you cannot have the keys to it, but I look forward to seeing you in Dallas and getting your thoughts when you see it in person.

To certain others:

--not to offend anyone, but stop using words like "ghey" and "looks like ass".....it really hurts your reputation with a lot of people.


Not to mention makes them look insane to people with taste! Again, I love it!!

I think I love everything about it except the rear end. It looks kinda awkward like it has it's ass up in the air or something... Tailights that are either round like the 2nd gens, or double bars like the 1st gens.. would be more appropriate, I think also.

But..

I think I'm one of the few that is more intrigued by what this other RWD V8 car that has been mentioned is. The Camaro is all fine and dandy, but what's this other one? Count me among the people who will be at the dealer pounding down the door with cash in hand if there's a screaming chicken on that car.

Yeah, I know.. Lutz said the Firebird was "dead".

Scott, Im going to say i love it. I had such high expectations for it and honestly was worried that GM would be able to meet them. I had no idea how they would. Whenever i tried making a concept of what i think would make a good Camaro, its like i had writers block, except for making a concept. I felt this way about the C6 as well. C6 more than exceeded my expectations as did this car. Man, I tell you, GM has some fine people working on their cars!

I am in love with the concept even in its leaked stage and im sure its only gotten better since then. I personally like the passenger side's fog lights better than the drivers side. Although im not too big of a fan on the guage cluster for the interior drawing, but i dont worry about that too much as it is still on concept form and concept interiors are always out there.

I cant wait to have one for myself and my brother. My brother will take one in red (i say the name for the red color should be Red Planet) and ill probably take mine in a nice metallic blue.


btw would u be allowed u tell us how long ago those shots were taken? DOnt want to get u in trouble so if no, no worries. just sorta curious :)

Look what happens when I leave town for a few days. :D

Although I'm going to be on the road in January, I look forward to seeing the real car in person hopefully some time in 2006.

I hope the guy that leaked the photos get's his due. :eek:

A lot of people are talking about there not being a lot of other generations besides 1st in it.

I wonder if the addition of the fender-blended side mirrors that was rumored to be coming back would change this for the better?

If...uh....anyone wants to send me the others....I won't look down in you for doing it.....


***cough***
ryan_vandh@hotmail.com
***cough***

coke bottle shape could be toned down a bit and taillights and exhaust gotta go.Looking foward to seeing the final rendition.:)

Remember the original Mustang concept, with the rediculous disco-style tail lights? Seems to me the "elephant" may be toned down somewhat when we see it in January...heck Red even said the leaked pictures were of an unfinished car, so I expect to see a cleaned up, tweaked version at NAIAS, and who knows the production car may take it even further...it is important to look at the overall theme and not details like exhaust tips and tail lights.

Scott,

Though I kept faith in your words, the insider info, and everything leaked up until yesterday but there was just a tiny bit of doubt in my mind. Though it was a bad thing that the pictures got leaked and might hurt the future of it some but seeing the rough concept....gave me a sense of life back into this future Camaro owner, It has made my passion for this car even more than ever, It turned out to me to be even better than I could have imagined and I know that it wasn't a final or complete version. I wanna thank you and the guys here that have kept us informed about "our" favorite car. Finding out about the next camaro was my #1 objective since coming around the auto enthuists sites and to you Scott and the people you got working with you on the project, I thank you all for working on and bringing us a awesome Camaro.

Now some comments on the concept....though I liked the photochop of Chris over at C&G and it was by far the most publicized but I believed that SharpshooterSS's concept looked more like the car than it was let on. The pictures released show which chop was closer to the real thing or to the pics we have seen. Also is it me or does parts of the car look like a corvette? Was a corvette used as a base? The rear and bits of the side remind me of a Corvette but the nose I LOVE IT!!!!, its not really retro but it has cues of heritage in it. If that stays close to the concept and the rear and sides are camaroized more I believe that we will have a car that will make mustangs scared in their tire tracks and challengers backing down when the Camaro comes to the streets.:D :cool: :bow:

Yeah, I know.. Lutz said the Firebird was "dead".

Someone chimed in a few days ago that said his friend actually talked to Lutz for a few seconds, and supposedly when asked about the Firebird Lutz said "we're working on it." Definetly don't know how accurate that is though.

I think the tail lights would look significantly better if they were more similar to Kris Horton's rendition.

http://www.carphotoalbums.com/photos/data/613/110309phr-5camaro03_z.jpg

Although im not too big of a fan on the guage cluster for the interior drawing, but i dont worry about that too much as it is still on concept form and concept interiors are always out there.



Thanks for reminding me about the Interior drawings!

What I liked about the interior drawings were the use of color. I like the hugger orange being carried over from the hood stripes. I like the gauge faces being a coordinating hugger orange as well. I hope they take some cues form the GTO and offer color-coordinated gauge faces depending on exterior colors! I also like the coordinated stiching coloring (again, ala GTO). Finally, I liked the way the "color band" flowed across the dash and into the door panels.

Also, I like the secondary guages being in the center stack, ala 1st gen. Pretty cool, IMO.

I do NOT like the "circles in squares" primary gauges though... I know this is 1st gen themed as well, but I was never crazy about that part of the 1st gens. The look like headlights from a Mustang II or something to me being circles in squares.

When were the pics taken? Recently or long time ago?

Dunno if its just the sketch but I hate the dash. Too plain. I like the dual cockpit design of the last gen Mustang. I even like the Corvette dash.

The tail lights are too corvette-esque. Don't like them at all.

Other than that, I like everything else about the concept.

I would buy it if it was priced right.

, and supposedly when asked about the Firebird Lutz said "we're working on it." Definetly don't know how accurate that is though.

Now this interests me...

I think it will look really good in my garage, I can't wait until I can trade my Formula in on a new Camaro. I really like the overall shape of the car and the fact that it has a trunk, having a trunk instead of a hatch give it a more muscular look. I’ll be looking forward to seeing the finished concept.

I guess ill get a little more detailed and nit-picky with my constructive criticism. I think the exhaust tips should be round, definately the passenger sides fog lights (makes it look meaner :)). Im not a fan of square guages and im also not a fan of separated guages. Some type of spoiler may also help

The rest? Amazing. I love the wheels, their size, the cowl, the fender bulgdes, the coke bottle shape, the trunk, i could go on and on.

Someone chimed in a few days ago that said his friend actually talked to Lutz for a few seconds, and supposedly when asked about the Firebird Lutz said "we're working on it." Definetly don't know how accurate that is though.


If this does happen..... I really hope they take the oppourtunity to differentiate them looks-wise.... They could have their retro flavored pony car in Camaro, and a modern/fututstic car in the Firebird.

You could really have all the styling bases covered in this scenario.

Someone chimed in a few days ago that said his friend actually talked to Lutz for a few seconds, and supposedly when asked about the Firebird Lutz said "we're working on it." Definetly don't know how accurate that is though.

One can only hope. I'm certainly one of the Poncho flock that hasn't given up on the idea of a new 'Bird, but I know most people have considered its demise to be a done deal. To me it just seems wrong to have a Camaro without a Firebird. It's been like that since day one, it should continue to be that way in the future.

Well, since its being acknowledged, I'll give my $.02 of a critique:

I absolutely love the front end and the overall profile. It doesn't look too retro, but still has the long deck/short hood style of all Camaros. It's still modern looking. Very masculine looking. I like the sharp lines with curves. The headlights fit nicely with the car too. The rear quater panels look exceptionally good. They blend well with the coupe body. I think the greenhouse looks really nice too.the A pillar isn't too thin, and unlike 4th gens, it's body color. The only part that I'm not to crazy about is the rear. The overall shape is serviceable, but the taillights look crunched. I think something closer to the C6's would look better, maybe using smaller cirlces though. I really like the idea of using the quad taillights like the Vette. The exhaust pipes look like they need to be blended with the rest of the back end. They look a little "lost" in the design. The wheels look great as does the hood. All in all I give her an 8 out of 10. Great work! I can't wait to see the real thing in person.

EDIT: I forgot to mention the interior. It's hard for me to judge concept interior sketches, so I'll wait till I see it in person. It does seem a little spartan at first look.

All I can say about the pics is I nearly shorted my laptop with drool. :D

The overall impression I get is just amazing. The only real issue I have with it is the tail lights. To me the they're too blocky and just don't fit in.

Its coming just in time for me to get my degree, start making money and trade in the 6 bangin '94 for a brand new Z28 so you can chalk up one guarenteed sale right now.

Thank you, Stars1010............no, you cannot have the keys to it, but I look forward to seeing you in Dallas and getting your thoughts when you see it in person.


Sounds Good:cz28:

Well while my final judgment and thoughts will be held till Dallas I’ll give my short run down on here since it looks like its ok now. :D

Ok……when I look at the nose I immediately like the right rendition better. I like how the lower lip seems to roll down unlike the left side which appears to be more horizontal. I don’t like the fog light on the right though. I would rather have something that doesn’t protrude from the body line and I actually like the less circular design of the fog light on the left.

The headlights and grill make me think the 4th gen meets 1st gen. And I like this but I honestly don’t know why……It looks cool? :D

I like the hood, but it doesn’t do a lot for me. Something I’d rather comment about in person.
Just hard to tell with the stupid LS1tch watermark.

My favorite part of this car is the green house! Looks again a bit 1st gen but for some reason that doesn’t bug me. The way the B pillar rolls into the trunk and quarter panel just plain turns me on. Such a sexy line! Don’t mess with this part of the car too much.

I’m going to hold my comments on the side of the car / door area. Right now it doesn’t do a lot for me. Going to have to make the call in person.

The rear end is a great start. I love how all the body line flow into it but at the same time it has a very futuristic edgy style to it. It does sit a bit high in my eyes though. Something needs to be done with the exhaust. I’m going o say why when I see them in person, but right now I just don’t get the initial reaction.

The taillight are perfect. Exactly what I wanted. They fit perfectly with the rear body lines and I’m just so happy y’all decided to get “vette” “2nd gen” style with them.

Overall ranking I give it an 8 out of 10. If the NAIAS concept addresses just a few issues it will be a 10. I would buy a car with this styling theme. Good Job.

Edit to Scott:
One other note, I’ll be more critical in person. Constructively, but more critical.

Someone chimed in a few days ago that said his friend actually talked to Lutz for a few seconds, and supposedly when asked about the Firebird Lutz said "we're working on it." Definetly don't know how accurate that is though.

That being said, for me to consider buying a camaro it wouldn have to be something that knocks me over in design etc. I'm a firebird/trans am guy at heart, the only camaro in the past that I would consider in my driveway would be a 1st gen. We'll see come January how much I can be persuaded ;)

The stance is very good, along with the flares around the wheels (then again, every concept has a good stance so we'd have to wait to see how it translates to production). I also think the wheels match the character of the vehicle, having a bit of old-school Cragar look to them.

The wing mirrors are obviously not real, but why make them seem futuristic when the rest of the car is not?

I don't like how exaggerated the haunches are, both in terms of their rise and their flaring out behind the doors. I know this is a big first-gen styling cue, but I think it could have been done more subtlely. As it is, it's just way too retro (admittedly I'm a retro hater so take it for what it's worth).

I don't like the squared-off, squinting taillights. I'd rather not have them paired, and have some roundness to them.

I would miss the practicality of the hatchback. The Mustang suffers from a mail-slot trunk opening, and by the looks of this concept, it'd be even smaller if the opening goes above the taillights.

They did a good job of disguising the height of the rear end; it doesn't have the "big butt" look of, say, the C5 even though it's even taller.

I'd like to see more rake to the windshield. But the power dome hood is nice.

And finally, the nose isn't doing it for me. It's one of the better retro noses we've seen, but it still doesn't look like it belongs on a 21st century car, especially one that will sell well into the 20-teens (or whatever you call the years past 2010 :think: ).

Overall it's not what I was hoping for. It'll probably sell well to the 'faithful' for a few years, but I just can't see it drawing in many conquest sales. I can't imagine a young guy whose been raised on imports "connecting" with this design and stampeding down to the local Chevrolet dealer.

GM needs to focus more on internal security so that they less frequently have to waste time and money on damage control after the leak.

Ya know... if Britney Spears doesn't make sure her blinds are closed while she's getting it on, she's made a big mistake because she might just get her picure taken and spread everywhere. That's how the paparazzi works... that's what "news" is... stuff nobody knew or had seen before spreading its way throughout the free and/or controlled media.

While it was wrong for the guy to take the picture, Britney shaking her finger at the entire world telling them they're "bad" for spreading the pic around the net and trying to sue them all is even more futile than the RIAA's campaign trying to stop the entire world from downloading MP3s.

Except in Britney's hypothetical case and GM's real case (for the Nth time this year alone) all they had to do was a little preventative security beforehand - keep the blinds shut, allow all pics and drawings of the car to not leave a certain area and no camera phones or anything of that nature past a certain point. Security chechpoint. Period.

Stopping media distribution on the 'net is almost impossible. Slowing it down is possible but that only generates MORE hype in the end.

What I'm getting at here is I'm tired of GM leaking stuff and then threatening everyone with lawsuits because of their leak and the nature of free media taking its course after that.

GM needs to focus more on internal security so that they less frequently have to waste time and money on damage control after the leak.

Ya know... if Britney Spears doesn't make sure her blinds are closed while she's getting it on, she's made a big mistake because she might just get her picure taken and spread everywhere. That's how the paparazzi works... that's what "news" is... stuff nobody knew or had seen before spreading its way throughout the free and/or controlled media.

While it was wrong for the guy to take the picture, Britney shaking her finger at the entire world telling them they're "bad" for spreading the pic around the net and trying to sue them all is even more futile than the RIAA's campaign trying to stop the entire world from downloading MP3s.

Except in Britney's hypothetical case and GM's real case (for the Nth time this year alone) all they had to do was a little preventative security beforehand - keep the blinds shut, allow all pics and drawings of the car to not leave a certain area and no camera phones or anything of that nature past a certain point. Security chechpoint. Period.

Stopping media distribution on the 'net is almost impossible. Slowing it down is possible but that only generates MORE hype in the end.

What I'm getting at here is I'm tired of GM leaking stuff and then threatening everyone with lawsuits because of their leak and the nature of free media taking its course after that.

While I agree with the jist of the post (tighter security on their property) ... these photgraphs were taken by GM and stolen by someone.

It's not like they "left the window shade open" and someone took a picture with a long range lens or something.

There's quite a bit of difference.

constructive criticizm as well as positive comments are always welcomed.

Constructive means just that. It is OK to say "I don't like it and this is why--..>insert reasons here<"...........However, let's keep it clean. I really don't want to see people clobbering each other over differing opinions...we're all friends here, agreed???

And again I'm gonna repeat one of my mantras: Do not put forth final judgement before seeing it in person!

okay i'll do my walk around the vehicle and point out what i see...
okay... I'm looking at the vehicle from the front... I like the squarish lights on the left side, although I like the open grill design and ground effects of the right side better.

For the head lamps... I like the recessed design, that model to me screams a 3/4 circle front lights... as if the hood were to chop off the top of the head lights... so for which style i prefer... the left side of the picture seems to have a more muscle like agressive light angles... they make the camaro look like "he's" angry... okay now that i'm looking at the very bottem of the bumper, in front of the front wheel, the bumper needs to be pulled outward more to complete an agressive look IMO

now I'll go into the hood, personally i think its a bit too flat, it needs a little more wheel flare built in to it... but after thinking about it, i'd say the firebird version was always more volumptious... so to give a downward slooping effect after the front wheels and before the firewall... similar to that of the original viper...

okay now i'll move on to the door panel... personally I think I'm not quite feeling that rear vent... but it needs something so its not plain... it reminds me of a mustang tho... as for that Mirror, that is probably an improbable size... although it looks kinda cool i think it would make driving difficult...

okay, this car really reminds me of the corvette as far as the roof line, it seems to have a dip in the middle as the vette and the viper both share... and it looks like it could easily support a targa top...

I really liked the fact that the 4th gen and 3rd gen f-bodies didnt have the quarter windows behind the door... but i'm unsure of how it will look on a real car....

now looking at the rear bumper from the side... it looks like it needs a spoiler desperatly... but pussibly maybe just a little wing similar to the 69...

now let me change photos to the rear of the car...

I enjoy the sqaured off tail lights and the fact the lights seem to have a pirimid effect as to they go inward... looks good...

This car looks to me as though it doesnt support a trunk or a hatch... at least from the concepts... i'd really like to see a hatch because that makes accessablity extremely easy... it makes the vehicle a great choice for bringing home the extra large TV home in or something that doesnt fit in the door of standard sedan...

the rear looks like it could also use the same rear light that the C6 uses that is currently black plastic that goes behind the trunklid of the verts or the hatch...

not sure about the rear seems like it might need a little more swooping action... a bit too boxy... The back glass looks like a good sloop and a good shape... i like the fact there doesnt seem to be a big blind spot...

hrmmm i have a bit of commentary on the interior but i'll not go into that cause i think the gauge cluster really sucked... tooo out dated...
but i hope my commentary was helpful

I must say "Keep the Faith" was getting old, even though I have kept faith this whole time, the small amount of doubt has been eliminated.

Now, for the pics.

First off, they are still on Fbody.com....and there are several posts asking for them to be removed.

I love the look of the car.....a home run. Personally I prefer the styling on the drivers side front, passenger rear. Though, like most others it seems, it could use tail lights more like those in the render by Kris.

I am only 21 years old so the retro thing doesn't bother me simply because I never had the opportunity to live those days. The muscle cars days that were in my fathers childhood are now coming around in my early adult years. So, hopefully one of my fbodies will do justice to his 73' Z28 or 70 GTO.

The interior looks very 4th gen like. Something about it just scream 4th gen Camaro. The gauges obviously are way to retro....and the dash is just plain. I love the color in the interior....somewhat like what was seen with the SSR. i love the look of the seats....the interior is great excluding the gauges.

The true duel exhaust...thats a godsend right there. I'm still not sure what the think of the IRS compared to a SLA...but I guess I'll find out. I've only driven one C5 Corvette and I can honestly say in that drive, I couldn't tell the difference, but that was probably because of the euphoria of the moment.

All in all.....it looks great. I've had a smile on my face since the moment i saw the pics, and it will remain there until the day the keys to my 5th Gen are handed away.

Great work to all that have been involved, keep it up. These are mearly my opinions, and there really is nothing I saw I couldn't live with. As it sits, right there in those pics, I would buy it without thinking twice.

:bow: True to the Camaro name and it does it justice.

Stopping media distribution on the 'net is almost impossible. Slowing it down is possible but that only generates MORE hype in the end.

What I'm getting at here is I'm tired of GM leaking stuff and then threatening everyone with lawsuits because of their leak and the nature of free media taking its course after that.

Maybe that's their intention. To create MORE hype. :cool:

since it hasn't been said yet....PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
It needs a Targa/TTop/Convertible option first year, because I don't want to have to wait another year to order one.

I'll make my opinion short...

I really like it. It has CHARACTER and attitude. The lines are solid and beefy, a good representation of what the car is going to be. I cannot wait to see the concept at NAIAS. :)

I agree, T-tops on the Z28 are a MUST

OK…..so the cow’s out of the barn and we get to add a few cents worth…..

• Overall….I’d say it was a 8 ½ to 9 out of 10! Love the stance and the blend of modern and Heritage.

• Prefer the round fog lamp/driving lights on the right…truer to the Camaro heritage.

• Prefer the front profile on the left…less “bent in the middle”.

• The car seems to be ”pointed in the middle” more than I’d like.

• Not sure what’s going on with the right side roof…are there Corvette-like indentations?

• The mirrors are obviously for show…wings!

• Are we not getting ’69 style fender “sweeps”? I sure hope so!!

• If not, I really like the 67-68 inspired side profile as long as you promise that eh 69 stylized side vent will be made functional for the new Z/28! Brake ducts are cool….

• I’m assuming that we’ll see something like a C5 style door handle? I hate the hole the C6 style leaves in the rear quarter.

• LOVE the crisp rear quarter profile!

• Dislike of the taillights seem to be a common theme of those who’ve seen the pics..me included. I think the Corvette team would object to four ovals, but the Camaro, with the exception of the early 2nd gens, had a more tear-drop singular shape…which I’d prefer IF you can’t get the ovals approved. Those trapezoidal shapes don’t blend at all.

• Looking for a C6 / XLR style 3rd brake light / spoiler. That would be cool!

• Where are the backup lights?

• I like the exhaust tips!!

• The lower rear valance I assume is like the C6?

• Are we back to a hatchback….that just looks like it isn’t one??

• The driver’s side seems to show a lower greenhouse…..that’s better.

• IF an add-on rear spoiler is used….PLEASE don’t make it look like it’s tacked on……integrated is the only way to go.

As far as being flamed on the "other site"....I'm a big boy...it didn't faze me whatsoever....I just consider the source.... LOL!

all in all i think it looks great, i love the lines to the back of the car. I like the passenger side of the car better, I like how the fog light is molded in. front of the car seems a little pointy to me but that light just be the views. one thing i really like and wish car companies would do on production cars is how the wheels are flush with the fenders. like the fender flares, dont like the mirrors but doubt that would be production. still wish the car was a little short on the front, more the Hortons first rendering. like the seats in the drawings but have never been a fan of the duel pod gauges.

anyways i dont know why someone could wait another 30 days but either way it is nice to see that GM is on the right track, lets just hope that production will be close to concept unlike quite a few of GM and other companies norm.

Great job Scott.:cool:

I really liked it alot. It looks real similar to that latest blue sketch floating around. That sketch was awesome and this design study stands out just the same.

The front clip nails it, and the overal coke bottle shape and profile looks a lot less "upright" than I expected, which is good. Great stance. I see Z06 in the rear fenders.

I like the simple GTO-like interior as well.

I hope the overall look can be maintained through production, much moreso than the G6 was able to keep.

GM needs to focus more on internal security so that they less frequently have to waste time and money on damage control after the leak.

Ya know... if Britney Spears doesn't make sure her blinds are closed while she's getting it on, she's made a big mistake because she might just get her picure taken and spread everywhere. That's how the paparazzi works... that's what "news" is... stuff nobody knew or had seen before spreading its way throughout the free and/or controlled media.

While it was wrong for the guy to take the picture, Britney shaking her finger at the entire world telling them they're "bad" for spreading the pic around the net and trying to sue them all is even more futile than the RIAA's campaign trying to stop the entire world from downloading MP3s.

Except in Britney's hypothetical case and GM's real case (for the Nth time this year alone) all they had to do was a little preventative security beforehand - keep the blinds shut, allow all pics and drawings of the car to not leave a certain area and no camera phones or anything of that nature past a certain point. Security chechpoint. Period.

Stopping media distribution on the 'net is almost impossible. Slowing it down is possible but that only generates MORE hype in the end.

What I'm getting at here is I'm tired of GM leaking stuff and then threatening everyone with lawsuits because of their leak and the nature of free media taking its course after that.

Britney also doesn't have eleventy billion contractors and employers roaming around her bedroom while she's "getting it on." I really don't think the analogy works too well, but I do agree that security needs to be stepped up if they are that concerned about it. Hell, I'm surpised they've done such a great job of hiding it thus far. We're only a month away from the press unveil...

I think the pics look great! The lines on the body look fantastic, and the stance is just right. True dual exhaust and IRS as well :D

Scott, after reading your post, and the first few in this thread, I became too excited to read the rest when I saw it's okay to post impressions. I cannot say enough of how thrilled I am with this concept. In its current form, the car is pure sex. I cannot equivocate the resounding success with which you have rendered a new Camaro for the new generation. It is mean, beautiful, sophisticated, and futuristic, all wrapped into one tight, beautifully proportioned package. I mean, NO complaints. Zero. There are elements that I'm sure can be done differently, and will be done differently, but Thank God GM has finally listened and is creating exciting cars yet again. Now, take this RWD platform and give Pontiac AND Buick a huge dose of excitement too!! [BUILD Velite and G6 RWD, please please please] Those rims, the definition of perfection. You really let the designers do thier thing on this one, kudos to welburn, peters, and lutz!, and of course all the designers who had a hand in this. The interior is perfect too. I don't know man, i think, uh, build it and they will come.

The big question: WHAT CHASSIS IS THAT?

• Are we not getting ’69 style fender “sweeps”? I sure hope so!!

• If not, I really like the 67-68 inspired side profile as long as you promise that eh 69 stylized side vent will be made functional for the new Z/28! Brake ducts are cool….
Remember when Chris Pawels developed his original sketch it was because evok suggested it was more 68-like than 69-like?

Seems to me that if you take John McBride's latest sketch and remove the 69 fender sweeps and insert 2006 Mustang fender bulges, you'd have it nailed.

(Personally I like the 69 "sweeps" as well. ;) )

My one negative comment.... It should've been red. :D

How many times have you met someone......and your first impression was "Well, if he/she wasn't

>all sweaty/dressed poorly/bad-hair-day/20 pounds overweight/bad mood/ --insert anything bad here -- <

...........he/she would be a knockout...........

See what I mean? First impressions are oh-so important. We did not get the chance to control a first impression. The pictures you saw are obviously not of a finished product.


If it looks as good as the pic I saw on a bad-hair-day, I can't wait to see it after it's been to the salon!

I have to say that I'm EVEN MORE excited to be going to NAIAS!

The big question: WHAT CHASSIS IS THAT?

i havent heard anyone deny that it is a sigma light chassis...

the zeta isnt done

i havent heard anyone deny that it is a sigma light chassis...

the zeta isnt done


I think it's the "CZ6" chassis designation that is throwing a lot of people off... never been mentioned before.....

First off, I was very nervous with all the hints of retro but overall I love what I see. Front end, hood, wheels(AWESOME), side I really like. A lot of heritage but it isn't over done. I am honestly in love with what I saw, I really am. The interior looks like a combination of a few ideas, so I'm not really going to say much. The backend is a great start, I'd like to see a different style of tail light.
AND a huge thumbs up to IRS and true duals. :bow:

Remaining questions that will determine if I buy one: Curb weight, loaded/base price and engine options.

Now, about the leak. I feel this problem started a long time ago. There are several people on here that have connections. I love hearing stuff ahead of time BUT I feel the people leaking info to these individuals are also a huge problem. Why? we saw a drawing a long time ago that looks a lot like what was posted. Wonder how that happen? Also, many details that seem to be real were also leaked.

So make sure the people that have been leaking small bits of info are fired along with the person that sent out the photos.

I can't wait to see next month, and for the love of god get to the showrooms before that damn dodge. :cool:

A couple more thoughts on the Exterior….

• Rear quarter window sweeps up more than the fender line….needs to be the same angle.

• Cowl hood could be a little more pronounced…..but not a lot.


Interior thoughts…..

• Dash seems to be too plain for me too…..I’m a gage junkie and I like them up in the dash where I can see them (appear to have 1st gen console gages…those sucked then too…can’t see them!)

• Obviously a sketch, but the two pods are too big and cartoonish for my tastes.

• Make sure the center console is “elbow leaning friendly” cupped top looks to have sharp edges around the perimeter.

• Not too sure I am about the four place seating…but not a big issue to me.(Charlie might say different)

The big question: WHAT CHASSIS IS THAT?

EDIT: edited for content. It's not zegma.

http://www.swaqvalley.com/Blueprints/1968_Chevrolet_Camaro_Z28.jpg

:eek: OMG its the new camaro!

I'm not a big fan of retro:(

Overall, I love the car.

The grill seems a bit weird, and at times I wish it had a bit more 69 in the front end, but it looks great as it is. I love the side and rear profile. The only deciding factor is price now.

Oh yeah, What's a Camaro without T-tops?

I saw the pics.............. even though I came late to the party (today). I have them saved. LOL

I'm hot and cold about them. First off, anyone who thinks this car is more or less "retro" than the Mustang is only fooling themselves. The only true RETRO design out there is the Challenger concept.

Second, remember that concepts notoriously have a stance, and wheel size that will never make it into production. Same with the interior. The idea of it may make it in, but it will definitally be toned down/practicalized for public consumption.

That said, I like the stance. I like the "coke bottle" shape to the side panels, although I feel they are probably way exaggerated for the concept (the sills would be way too wide, otherwise). I like the more upright greenhouse in the passenger side rendering, as I feel it would be more practical and consumer friendly. The exaggerated "coke bottle" does give the impression of a very confined rear seat............. thus, those complaining about the Mustangs rear seat need not apply. The rear gives that way too tall and blunt feel of the C6. Something a little less drastic, or smoothed out............. or even some kind of wing would help. Something to offset the "my car has been rearended by a a semi" look.

I like the passenger side front better also. It does not have that "eating the driveway" look of the drivers side. The pointy middle could do with a little modifying........... it is way 4th gen, and gives the impression of way too much front overhang.

All in all, a good effort. It is following the Mustang formula pretty well. It has strong Gen 1 cues, with minor Gen 4 ones............. and a little smathering of Gen 2 in the greenhouse.

Hopefully they don't water it down too much for production. I realize that practical changes have to be made (windtunnel/safety/regulation wise). However, the flavor can remain the same. The sad part, to me at least, is that the production version won't be out until MY2009. I guess that gives GM plenty of time to second guess themselves.............. which is what scares me the most.

Naturally, I managed to miss everything that went on in the last day or so (not sure how long this event lasted/is lasting). I always miss the most inportant events....

In fact, I only found out last week that they closed the Quebec plant down and that they discontinued the 'current' F body.

Seriously though, I did miss everything but am kind of glad so I can get that 'first impression' on my terms, so to speak.

Cheers,

Jeff
:thumb:

By the way.......where in Sam Hill is Z284EVER???? or Guy?

One last thing...the car is not retro.......it really isn't at all in person.

I'm right here, and I'm assuming it's ok to talk about the pics.

Here's my take. And I want to be very careful and measured with what I say, since what we saw was an unfinished clay and seeing the finished one in the flesh, might give a different impression.


There are some things I like and some I'm not too crazy about.

I can imagine the front fascia (once fully developed) as looking great. It's got that HEY GET OUTTA MY WAY CAUSE I'M REALLY PISSED OFF look. I like that. I like the way it picks up on the 3rd gen fender flares. I like the crease that runs down the side, starting from the nose and ending into the fender vent. The rear fender crest has a muscular/powerful shoulder -yet neatly creased, sorta like a C5/C6. All good.

The bad. The mirrors are little weird looking in a George Jetson sort of way. That character line that runs along the bottom and ends into the rear fender might be alittle busy for me. I'm not sure how I feel about the rear fender vent. I hope that it's at least fuctional ...like on the Z06. As much as I like the front, I really don't care much for the rear fascia - not very elegant, alittle forced and bulky. And the greenhouse looks abit chunky and squashed - maybe not as elegant as I had hoped. Maybe to pass rollover standards...I don't know? I always liked the greenhouse on the HotWheels Muscletone though.

I liked the interior pic with the seats, (I like the rear buckets Doug...is that what you were referring to in your post?). But I hope the IP is nothing like the other pic. A poor copy of a '69 IP. In fact to me it looks like a reverse engineered '69 IP.....done in 1957. Didn't like that at all.

Anyway those are merely initial impressions. I think the clay makes a powerful statement, even if there are some details/features I'd prefer tweaked. Actually I'm glad I had a preview. I have alot to process, and compare to the finished concept next month.

Looking forward to it!

I always had a little hope the designers at GM could pull something off that could satisfy most of the anti-retro crowd while satisfying their need to jump on the retro bandwagon, and I believe they have done it.

The taillights could use some work, make them squares or make them circles, I don't really care, just make them something other than what I saw. I think the taillamps could look good as a completely modern piece. The exhaust tips need to be completely round. (I'm not one for mixing shapes ;) )

I definitely like the passenger side more, overall. I believe 4th gen style side mirrors would definitely work well instead of the extreme concept stuff. It definitely looks like they were trying to decide whether to go more modern or more retro on the nose, and I obviously like the former. Flat is no cool. I believe adding a little more obvious 2nd and4th gen flavor would be nice. 4th would be cured with the side mirrors and pointy-er nose, I dunno about 2nd, that's a little tough, lol...I see alot of third gen in the concept, so no complaining, there...

I liked the interior color-wise. I'd really like more of a Stylized modern GTO style in the interior, stitching, exterior-coordinated, etc...Maybe a little more "far-out" like the dash/doorpanels in the concept drawing.

The gauges...Well, a nice, solid, modern piece would be nice.

Overall, I'm happy. And I'm a picky customer.

Dang. This is the first I've heard about it. I haven't bothered looking for the pics, though. I can wait.

Thank you, Stars1010............no, you cannot have the keys to it, but I look forward to seeing you in Dallas and getting your thoughts when you see it in person.


:thumb: I wasn't expecting the concept to make it here -- Big D tends to be no mans land when the show season rolls around. Hopefully I'll see you there....I'll be the drooling guy juggling a ferrocious 2 year old. :)

Constructive criticism eh...?

Lessee......


..........Uhh...............

Oh, I've got one: put the gauges under a common hood.

One styling feature I was very happy to see ommitted from the concept were fenders that flow into the side mirrors....... Good riddance!

Umm......

Make mine some sort of sunset orange derivative :yes:

i havent heard anyone deny that it is a sigma light chassis...

the zeta isnt done

Yeah,
I dare anyone to go look under the rear of a CTS-v and try and tell me the Camaro wont be on Sigma-lite

Ok Scott I don't really have time to discuss my likes, many, or dislikes, few, but I would like to get feedback from you on 1 thing. How old is the leaked clay? What I mean is, is this REALLY the car we will see in Detroit? Or will we see an evolution of this car?

I missed the pictures here but was able to find them on the net somewhere else a few minutes ago.

Even though its not the final product and the actual Camaro at NAIAS will be better all I can it's....

HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!:bow:

To those at GM responsible , I say "Great Job" !!!!!!! :cz28:

One additional comment:

I am disappointed to see just a Chevy bowtie on the front and rear.

I'd much perfer a Camaro logo.... a redesign of the traditional "Camaro Ribbon" or "Camaro Shield" or whever you'd like to call it....

I really like the car...it surpasses my expectations! I like pretty much everything about it! My 2 cents...

- prefer the passenger side front...the round foglight on the driver side doesn't seem to go with the rest of the car. The tailights and headlights look mean, as does the foglights on the passenger side.

- rear exhaust is the only thing i'm not sure of. I really would like to see it with rectangular tips like the LT1. I think that would fit with the tailights much better.

Thats it! Keep the rest of the exterior the same! Have no comment for the interior as concepts rarely look like production anyway.

I have only see 1 pic (silver 3/4 view) and from what i saw, it is pretty much exactly what I expected. The car pictured is definatly retro showing only 1st gen design cues. I would say that it is at least as retro as the Mustang. It looks like a 1st gen with modern fender flares. I can't really say I am dissapointed because I have been conditioning myself to accept the reality that the "new" Camaro will be a retro 1st gen. If you like retro cars, then this car should be great for you. I will still wait to see the finnished concept and other pictures before I totally decide to get a Corvette.

I noticed a lot of similiarity to the 99 GTO Concept, which BTW I really liked and wished Pontiac would have built that concept.

The roofline, c and b pillar and rear 1/4 panels look very similar.

I think the next gen GTO will look alot like the "Camaro" concept. If it doesn't it damn well should. :D

Agreed put the same talent on the next GTO styling as well. The "Camaro" concept is styled right, it says something about today and yesterday, without totally diving off into the retro years. Perfect balance IMHO.

I agree with Scott, nothing compares to seeing it in the flesh. Don't know what is but the true in your face I can see it touch it does something to the senses. This same sensation most likely made me choose the GTO over the Mustang. Not from a "gotcha" styling perspective but the overall well thought out "package" that makes up the GTO. It just did the right thing to the senses when up close and personal with it.

My perception of what I see. I like the blend of creases and smooth lines. Both and work nicely within themselves and contribute to the design presence. Love the stance. Love the wheels. The greenhouse looks absolutely perfect. Seems the theme of "squared off top lighting" of the lighting works very well on the front. I can see some of the same in back (tail lights, exhaust tips), not sure how well it works there. Especially on the exhaust. If someone puts different exhaust/tips on the car would it loose part of it's intended design? The inset headlamps look awesome and give the car a menacing look in a appealing way. Love the way to cabin/greenhouse seems to set back toward the rear. The long hood reminds me of a 2nd Gen sort of. The small but noticeable cowl is a must have.

Love the interior styling flow from the dash and into the door panels. One of the reasons I like the current GTO interior so much. It just all works together and looks purposefully laid out. Often door panels look like an afterthought, but not in this sketches. Not much on the square trim around the speedo and tach. A more modern gauge setup would be more appealing. This is one of the major dislikes I have about the current Mustang as well. I do like the idea of gauges in the console however.

Awesome job to the design team. Can't wait to see what the final concept looks like in January!!!!

And Scott I've already starting the thought process and positing of what to do with the current GTO should a version of this concept become available to purchase at a dealer. So in case GM is looking for my reaction.... You build it, I'm buying it!!! :D Coming from four time F-body owner.....Does this say the right things? :D

definately the passenger sides fog lights (makes it look meaner :))

Very much agree.

I just keep thinking "Merry christmas to me"!! This is exactly what I wanted. A few small things here or there but I would stand in line to buy it! Did I mention I love it??

I just saw the pics...missed them on here yesterday, somehow!!

In a word: Gorgeous. I cannot wait to see this car in person. I have been one of the most anti-retro people on this board...and I love it. The sides look like an XK8 to me, more than a '69. I see second gen influence in the greenhouse. I LOVE the tailights. I LOVE the exhaust tips, and hope those make it to production.

It has the retro nose I figured it would, but everything else is a major surprise. I love it. It would look great in a garage next to a 3rd and 4th gen. What do I not like? I know there were some 11th hour changes to the nose, and I hope they "modernized" the nose a little. With such a lithe and agile profile, sides and tail, to put a somewhat-blunt nose on it detracts a little.

Overall though, I'm in love :D Scott, kudos to the design team. I cannot wait until 1/9 now!!!!!

I hope that dashboard rendering is no where near what the actual interior will look like because it is hideous. On the other hand, the concept showing the front and rear seats looks really good, especially the rear seat treatment.

The rear shot of the car is not good at all. Definatly needs some sort of spoiler................although, maybe this is supposed to be a base model car.

On a side note, it looks like the pics were taken at the same place where all the C5 clay model pics were taken.

those pics are so ****ing sexy, cept for the mirrors, and something needs to be done with the rear.

please, for the love of god, use atleast let it have good window motors.

and it better stay close to the concept(Side Profile,front), goddammit.

I can imagine one of these Trans Am(Race) Style :drool:

After reading some comments I've got a little bit to add:

I'd like to see a duck tail like spoiler on the rear.

T-tops are a must.

As Darth mentioned, it needs to have the Camaro shield on the front somewhere.

Its interesting to note that there isn't a Z28 or SS badge on it. One more thing to look forward to in regards to the finished concept. IIRC, the Mustang concept had GT on the fender.

The more I look at it, the more I love it. 9.5/10. Looks like a cross between a 68 Camaro, and a C6 Z06.

Things I'd like to see:
HID's, and LED taillights.
A Camaro emblem in the front, along with the one on the rear being more recognizable as "Camaroish" <-----is that even a word ?
A lip spoiler that looks like it goes with the car, not something tacked on as an afterthought.

Overall I can't wait to see it in Dallas, and chat with ya Scott. Any chance the 1/4 windows will roll down ?

I can't find the pic! :mad:

I think the design is on the right tract. The exterior looks very nice. I hope the inside, primarily the dash gets a complete overhaul. Those gauges looks very retro like. I much prefer the modern look. Good job guys. Can't wait to see the real thing in Detroit.

All I have to say is that these pictures truely made my Christmas brighter! :thumb: We've heard the rumors, we've had the "confirmations" from automotive magazines, to finally see something from GM that is hardcore PROOF (even if it's a clay model) is the best feeling in the world after waiting so many years.

I missed the pictures, but I really hope the actual production car has a 67-69 lookl.:thumb:

Well Red, my impression of the car is that even though it does bear quite a resemblance to a 69, it is not a completely retro car in the same fashion that the Mustang and Challenger are. It does have new facets to it which I like. For example, I think the taillights are pretty cool. Overall, I think the car is pretty nice, and I am one of the guys who was against complete retro. I don't really see that much 2nd, 3rd, or 4th gen in it though, unless you really nitpick it. I thought you mentioned the car would have alittle bit of every generation. Perhaps the real car at NAIAS will be a good bit different from this one (although obviously the overall shape is going to be the same.)

I agree. :D

In fact, I reckon it's every bit a modern car with heritage design cues.

Although the car was a non-finished design analysis, it did look good in proportion and stance. It's got an angry look to it that somehow the Mustang lacks although I'm also a fan of the Ford.

I thank Red for commenting on the pictures as I didn't expect such a mature reply to indicate what impact a leak of that nature does to the team who worked so hard to give the enthusiast what they want.

Edit: deleted by author

Missed out on the pics, and very glad that I did. Read some comments from members and sounds like overall it's a hit. :)

Can't wait till January

My 2 cents... (maybe 2½)

It sucks that the leak ever happened, and I sure hope the people involved have dirty pants right now.

But now that it's pretty much out in the open...

Overall, I love it. The shape is stout and mean, and it just seeps muscle.
I love the 1st Gen, and that probably has alot to do with why I like it.
But I do like the fact that there are enough new things on it so it's not just a photocopy.

I like the cleanliness of the drivers side front, yet I think I like the passenger front more because it's a little more agressive. Put the circular fog light on it and it's a winner I think. Really liking the grille with few lines, although I agree it needs an updated Camaro badge rather than a simple bowtie. I actually mocked-up a new 1968-meets-1993 Camaro Badge a few weeks ago that I think would look fantastic in the middle of that grille (and on the tail panel for that matter): http://www.camarohighway.com/Files/5thGenNose1.gif

The rear end definitely needs a spoiler of some sort, which I would think the real concept will have. Tail lights are very interesting. Very different, but I kinda like them, I see 1968 Camaro in them. I like the shape of the rear, looks mean without looking huge.

The side is a little hard to adress yet. The top crease might look better if it was coming off the top of the front fender well, however, I do like how it blends in with the nose.

But the best thing is... it SCREAMS Camaro. :D

Overall, I'm very impressed. I'd say we've got a winner here. :)
Really really really really looking forward to NAIAS!!! :D
The countdown: http://www.camarohighway.com/Countdown.htm

wow, cant wait to see the revised version of this car in january, i like it alot! count me in to order one if it looks similar to this. now the only thing is, hurry up and get it out so we can all buy one:D

By the way.......where in Sam Hill is Z284EVER???? or Guy?


Sorry I'm late. Been gone for a day.... What did I miss? :think:

I wanted to make a post asking someone, anyone, to Please, PLEASE email me the pics, but then I realized how wrong that would be.

I guess I'll just have to wait. :cry:



cschill@hotmail.com

The rearend is AWFULL!

The rest is pretty nice.

I am shocked, Noone has yet mentioned the drawings of the suspension...

The exhaust is interesting.

The rearend is AWFULL!

The rest is pretty nice.

I am shocked, Noone has yet mentioned the drawings of the suspension...

The exhaust is interesting.


Yup, not even one teeny bit of Sigma there.

First off, have to say I love the car! If the clay can look this good, I can't wait to see it done in sheetmeatal (and have both sides match:D ). I guess my excitement on this car is best summed up this way; it reminds me of getting my first ride in a 1986 IROC at the dealership. In fact, the feeling is so strong, I went and bought the same album that I was playing back in 1986 when that happened (gotta love Ozzy). The psychological impact of seeing that car, even in concept form, brought me back to that place we all have, that realization that I HAVE to own one of these. While I am sure that you all would really have preferred to have the concept's first glimpse be amongst the grandeur and lights of NAIAS, the visceral impact of this car, on me, is quite profound.

Now having said that, you asked for feedback, so here it goes:

Stance: Perfect, looks mean , ready to pounce (Panthers eat horses don't they ?;) )

Front bumper area: I prefer the left side overall, like the fog lights and the lss dramatic grade of the bumper line, but I do prefer the down turned chin spoiler, as opposed to the left sides more "straight" look.

Hood: slightly more pronounced cowl bulge would be good, or the hood scoop of the 4th gen SS, I like the how the hood line seems to meet the top of the front 1/4's. Very muscular and taught.

Side Mirrors: Neat concept look, would prefer 3rd gen look to them.

Door Panels: Interesting character lines, not sure about the air duct area, if they are functional would be one thing. Honestly, it is hard to tell without seeing this area in person, or at least in a color that allows some depth to the picture.

Greenhouse: Looks damn good to me, looks more upright, while not looking to pedestrian.

Wheels: Awesome, love this new look. Reminds me of the BMW and SRT-8 type wheels. That is a VERY good thing, IMO.

Back: Ok, maybe I am in the minority, but I REALLY like this new look. Passenger side lights look much better than driver side to me, they are proportionally much better sized for the overall look of the rear. Two areas of suggestion here:
1) Put a spoiler on the bad boy! either a Duck Tail or IMO a spoiler lik the GTO has, but with the upturned lip ala 4th gen SS.
2) I would prefer that the exhaust tips do NOT go through the rear valance panel. It limits the customization possibilities of the "Car"

Interior: Like the console guages, would look cool if they and the center stack were positioned to make the driver's area more "cockpit" like. the Tack, speedo area I am not fond of, would prefer the semi-circular look.

Back seat: please make it a bench, would make it far more usable , especially for carrying stuff.

Ok, that's my take, for what it's worth. Can't wait to see the finished product at NASIAS, and in my Dealer's showroom . Please pass along our collective request to fast track the car, don't let the momentum get watered down, the Solstice was good at 21 months, let's make the Camaro even better at 18 mos. ?

Thanks again for all invloved's hard work. This truly looks to be the best Camaro ever.

James

Yup, not even one teeny bit of Sigma there.

Zegma.

When I showed these to my brother, who has not real interest in cars, he jumped and said "woooe, that awesome!!"

Zegma.


Nope. Not even ..gma at all.

So this is what happens when i forget to lurk for a day or two!! Im actually surprised that it has taken this long for a leak to get out.

I just have one question for Red planet- if you had a choice- now- for those of us who have not seen the pics yet, to see them or not, which would it be? While I really want to take a peek- Out of respect to you and all you have done on this board and at GM:bow: - I wont look at them.

Im sure that there are others as well- out of respect- who will also avert their eyes.

So, whats the word?

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SOMEONE SEND ME THESE PICS!!!!! I hate showing up late to the party.:cry: :cry: :cry:
daddysz28@hotmail.com

Edit: in reply to the above post, i don't think gm just pulling the plug and dangling the nameplate infront of us was respectful. I think that somone should have come forth with something. Maybe I missed them or just didn't read between the lines but it was killing me. Everytime something positive came out something else came out to kill all hope. I can't stand it anymore. I need to actually see something for one way or the other. I don't mean to be an ass to anyone on the board but GM is killing me here.

Zegma.
Smegma?
;)
I think the right side of the concept looks great, I prefer the rounder lights. I also agree that the rear end needs round exhausts, and circular taillights a'la the early 2nd gens. A small lip spoiler would be perfect.
Build it ASAP, please!
:D

Another question....will GM be releasing these to the aftermarket before they're actually released ala 05 Stang. It would sure be nice to have an intake and exhaust, etc before I even have mine in the driveway. The aftermarket support will be VERY IMPORTANT in ensuring the future success of the car.

I didn't see them, but I'm glad. I pretty disappointed that these pics got out. They had it under wraps for god knows how long and a month before it's reveled BOOM, all over the net. :(

Smegma?
;)

:D

Hahaha...no.:lol:
Zegma.

Since we can post our thoughts ....cool :) First off , I think the clay is absolutely 100% going in the right direction . The presence and attitude is their , the traditional coupe layout like I wanted is there . It would be insanely easy to tweak the clay model a bit , to be the sexyist car in the world , IMO . I am so happy its not full on retro too , but I am happy where it is the most retro . That being the front end , and the long sweeping character line from the front of the fender to the rear of the door , then perfectly transitions into sharply raking up line at the 1/4 window . I love it . Where the character line racks up is where I start to say hmmmm and have to question where it leads too . On the clay I dont like how it levels off . I would like to see at the , say , middle of the rear wheel well , a very slight downward slope . Not nearly as dramatic as the 1 st gen , just "a little" more than whats in the clay . Something like that would make that sharp crease that forms the rear of the fender into the bumper look alot classier and a bit more graceful , while bring the rear sightlines down a little bit .

The greenhouse , well ....I dont have hardly anything to complain about there . I love the shape of all the windows and thank god it look like were gonna get a visible body color a-pillar back . My opinions here are bring the side window and rear 1/4 window down to just above the character line . It looks a bit goofy with the side windows raised up like that . I would say , if the raise the character line to meet the windows , but that would make the side of the car look to tall , hmmmm .

I really hope you guys can pull off the lower rocker area . It transitions so well with the wheel well flares . I would imagine the cut into the body that spans the door and ends prior to the rear wheel well on a production car would be less pronounced . But I would hope to something very similar on the end product . Again , make the brake duct functional on the Z28 , and on the lesser models leave it off TOTALLY .The way the whole area is designed , it would look great with nothing there at all . Give the Z's something special :) Its time is due , it lived the last 10 years of its life looking like a 6 cyl :D

The front clip is off to GREAT start with a few , again minor tweaks . 1 being the headlights . To me , the shape of the reflectors in alot cases nowadays define the character of the front of the car .They have come lightyears design wise havent they . Its where the new Mustang I feel was 1/2 assed , I like the front clip , but it coulda been ALOT more enhanced by better executed headlight design . Rather than old style refector in a black housing . The headlight reflector in the clay is close . I would set it back a bit more in the housing , a tad . I like the circular design and the flat bottom to follow the bottom line of housing , like the light is sunk a bit into the housing . And I like how the top is left circular , being shadowed by the hood line . By setting the reflector back a tad , it would give a little more sinister look and in certain lighting would shadow out the reflector so it looks tinted . Instead of using a traditional style textured reflector , I would like to see more a jeweled like projector set in a reflector much like the one on the clay .......god , am I details guy or what :D :D I love the passenger side front bumper . It = pure attitude . The driverside looks tooo soft . Love the cowl hood too , could that be a sign of clearence for one of those intake manifolds that go weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :cool:

The rear of the car is a mixed bag for me . I love the black valance panel where the exhaust tips are , please keep it , please . Its the only part of the car I feel theres no flow . It he taillights put me off , and the upward slopes on the rear deck , like on the C5 , C6 decklid do not work on that design imo . Definately scrape that deck and go for more gracefull arc , with a early 2nd gen type Z28 spoiler blended in . The rear taillight section similar in design to the SS concept would go wonderfully with that car .

Finally , I hope to see wheels with a deep lip . Lipliss wheels work well on a car like the corvette . But man , for design like the clay car a wheel with a deep lip would look soooooo tough .

I better stop now , haha . Like I said , Im a details guy , I could type 10 pages :D

Save the rest for Detroit , cuz I wouldnt miss this for anything .

ok, here' my constructive criticism........

overall, the design is better than i expected it to be. i've always preffered the side profile of the 67-68s, and this is very remeniscent of those.

i like the overall shape of the passenger side better than the driver side.

i think the crease on the lower portion of the car is a little too exagerated, but i don't totally dislike it.

i like the lines of the passenger rear, but would rather see round tailights more in line with the early second gen design.

that's my short list, i'm holding my final judgement for my first in person view of the car in New York, hopefully standing next to Scott so i can give him my real first impression.

i do want to say the design team did a fantastic job with this car and my hat goes off to all who were involved.






p.s.-bring back the ribbon! :D

Gahh.... how could I have missed this? I feel like I stood inline behind the person that bought the winning Powerball Jackpot ticket :cry:.

I have just one thing to say to everyone who saw the pics... to quote from Life of Brian..... "You lucky, lucky bastard!" :).

So is this sigma lite? Epsilon 2? what?

I'd like to add that I'm sure the production car won't be as aggresive as this, but i think its cool that GM isn't afraid to show an agressively designed high production vehicle. I like that.
My issues are as follows

»the gauges are too retro for me. I think they are really tacky.
»the seats are awesome...totally awesome. I like them the most of anything about that vehicle.
»the steering wheel looks a bit bland, but i guess it has to when there's an airbag in there.
»the dual over the axle exhaust, really cool.
»I hope that car gets some wide rear tires, it would fit really well with those curved hips on it.
»should have 19's on the back, 18's on the front, with the nose pitched slightly down.
»those rear lights look too much like grandmas glasses
http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/7789/ist2350537oldglasses0tr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
»I like how the headlights are set back in the grille, the shadow gives it a cool sinister look. But the top of the grille, the edge that runs along with the hood of the car, is to austere for a car like this. I can't point it out, but it just doesn't fit the car the way it should, it shouldn't be scapped, but should be redone a bit. The general design is good, but just needs an update.
»The rear corners of the car are could be fixed. If you could subdue those sharp edges by pulling them back and inwards, just the littlest bit. Keep the edge shape, but pull them inwards and towards the rear of the car, and allow the car to have better hips. For some reason, those sharp edges corners, and those little fender flares don't work, we need bigger ones! :D You need bigger fender flares (although i know a production car could never see a cool feature like that) like the z06's. Actually, you need to consider the z06's rear end, because it has sharp edges and big fender flares, and they match. On these 5th gen pics, the flare and corner don't flow as well.
»I love how the fender's lines start at the passenger window (btw, the triangular passenger window is cool) and go back.
»i think the fog lights could be worked on. It looks like someone said "hey bill, we need fog lights" and they just stuck them on there. They should be encorporated into the design, molded to the lines.
»The hood is ok, but I'd like something a bit more wild/aggressive for my 427 z28 (well...i guess they won't all get 427's, but some have to).
»It looks like someone chopped the roof, I like that shorter windshield look.
»The wheels are nice for a production vehicle.

And Scott, can you tell be whether or not what GM plans on showing is at all different from this car? Also, can you please comment on my suggestions. I would like to hear your take on my suggestions and their practicality and such.

edit: I asked a non car guy friend and non car guy brother what they thought. My brother jumped and shouted "woe, thats awesome!" I asked my friend later and he said "thats a cool looking vette." So i believe the general public, non enthusiasts, will being going crazy when this is shows. It be cool to be on the front page of the news paper, or at least the autosection.

were are the pics located at on that site firebirdv6. Or beter yet me a pm

Tail-lights: gotta be round like 2nd-gens :thumb:. I'm not knocking the 1st-gen influence throughout, but it would bring another generation into the car. Otherwise, the back end is great :yes:. Although a little spoiler sure wouldn't hurt?:)

Interior: anyone notice how short the dash is?? ;) I guess they decided to leave the engine OUTSIDE the car instead of INSIDE? :D (ala 4th-gens :rolleyes: ). Also, the floors appear to be FLAT (no "hump") on both sides (which is also evident by looking at the chassis pics) :thumb:.

IRS: (not the Tax Man!) ... I guess it's the way of the future? It will likely be a selling feature for the "masses" and may give Camaro an edge over the Mustang, which is still using "yesterday's technology". Now can anybody say how a strut suspension in the front will perform compared to A-arms??:confused: (3rd-gens handled pretty good, right??)

Overall, I dig it :cool:.

So far I like. I think the Grill could be a teensy bit bigger. I like the front design on the drivers side versus the passenger side.

As said before many, I dont like the rear end all that much. It seems almost too narrow compared to the rest of the car. The tail lights I dont like as well as it reminds me of Mazda in some form. I'd rather see something along the lines of a 68 style tail light, or a style more like that of the 3rd gen.

Pleased to see its a proper coupe and has a trunk, I just think it looks better that way. I like profile. It almost looks like a meaner, more pissed off Corvette.:D

The interior Im so so on. I'd rather have a more modern gauge layout. I do love the seats though. Thats pretty slick lookin.

All in all I'll take one please:D

1) less retro nose ( think 99 nomad)
2) ROUND TAIL LIGHTS!
3) more modern gauges



and make it black.:cool:

another thing i was just thinking about.........

i'm not really a big fan of the interior. what if we could get something more along the lines of the GTO interior(color match gauges, seat accents, and stitching). i know a few more people have suggested it and i really think it would set the car off in a huge way..............







.............or maybe we can make that a Z/28 only option :D :p

Ok, I missed a day. I've seen the pic's, but SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT THE H*LL HAPPENED YESTERDAY!:D

Please.

I've never wanted to go to detroit so bad.

Evok is calling it Zegma over at C&G. There is also a poll done by another insider, thegriffon, asking if people want to see the G6 line on Zegma, and the GTO to top it off, still on Zegma, but different from the G6 coupe.
Check the posts again.

I have been waiting years for this concept. I bought a GTO just to tide me over until the Camaro was back.

That said, I really like it, probably the only down fall is the taillights but as was pointed out somewhere else this obviously isn't the final. I really like the true dual exhaust. The IRS is a wash for me. I do like it in my current GTO. I can't wait to see it in person in Detroit. Now I want to know when I can buy one..

Is it possible to put money down now? I'm ready..

Boy, Scott asked for our two cents and got a hundred dollars....LOL!!!

Boy, Scott asked for our two cents and got a hundred dollars....LOL!!!
We're pasionate! Plus the fact that everyone is trying to design their dream car. I personally had to throw in a remark about a 427.

another thing i was just thinking about.........

i'm not really a big fan of the interior. what if we could get something more along the lines of the GTO interior(color match gauges, seat accents, and stitching). i know a few more people have suggested it and i really think it would set the car off in a huge way..............







.............or maybe we can make that a Z/28 only option :D :p

:confused: :mad: :rolleyes: :p That's what I think of you!

can i get an email of these things, please... I been trolling for five years for this and I miss one day.....

sinmale71@yahoo.com

thank you.

OK, my $.02....

Way too retro and an ugly rump was my first impression yesterday.

Now that I've has 24 hours to digest and reflect.....


What I like
1) The stance
2) The more sharply creased passenger side version
3) The glowering front fascia
4) The scowling rear fascia / light arrangement
5) The muscular rear fenders
6) The wheel design
7) Body color accented interior with aggressively bolstered seats
8) INDEPENDENT REAR SUSPENSION!!!!!
9) Dual (for the most part) exhaust

What I can live with
1) Struts on all four corners
2) The crowd of people that will gather around everytime I park it
3) All the innocent bystanders that will get whiplash everytime one drives by

What I dislike
1) The retro, old school interior. Give me a modern cockpit please.
2) The exhaust tips. Flash is good but these are too over the top. Something a bit more tasteful please.

What I would add
1) A subtle ducktail spoiler on the trunk edge
2) The Camaro badge / ribbon / shield

What I'm hoping for
1) Front brake ducts
2) Rear brake ducts incorprated into the side "vents"
3) A light(er)weight, no nonsense, bad ass, ZO6-like Z28 model to wear said brake ducts


Verdict
A home run and I'm willing to bet the final show version is even better. The devil now is in the execution.

:confused: :mad: :rolleyes: :p That's what I think of you!


:D ;) :p

Scott,

I'm sorry, I told myself... don't look! but I caved to the pressure and I'm glad I did. This thing is gorgeous! I love it!

I only have a few suggestions...

1.) The tailights have to go and in there place should be dual round tailights ala early second gen.
2.) The interior scetches don't do it for me but I know they are scetches only so I'll wait to see what it comes out looking like but I think a true Cockpit feel is needed here. btw, you made a reference to a houndstooth optioned interior, I hope this is still true...
3.) Yes it does need a spoiler, 2nd genish style tall and prominant to make a statement!

Those are my only three things...


btw, I just scored a large commision on a large sale... how soon can I buy one :)


Oh, and Thank You!!! :)

I think it looks great, also that it looks similar to the rendition that johnnygmachine did. :shrug:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/katahdin1/Gen5_Z28stripes.jpg

I think it looks great, also that it looks similar to the rendition that johnnygmachine did. :shrug:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/katahdin1/Gen5_Z28stripes.jpg
Front lip, 1/4 window, body doglet above the rear fender, cowl all are there. I would also venture to say that the fender swooshes will be on the concept car. I hold firm to my belief that this clay is not a direct representation of the January car. I think this is older than 2003. I have my reasons, not insider related but gut feeling AND logistical.

i love the design in the pics. the only thing i would change would be the exhaust tips, they look like those kragen ricer tips. oh and use the circle foglights

oh and i have a feeling, provided there is good marketing and it isn't TOO expensive, this will play a big part in saving GM's ass. remember Chrysler and the 300C? perfect example of how one car (that isn't even incredibly practical) can really carry an entire company

Well, I screwed up and what I actually saw wasn't it...so I'm still in the dark. If anyone has them saved.... :D

[QUOTE=Katahdin]I think it looks great, also that it looks similar to the rendition that johnnygmachine did. :shrug:

It looks very similar to about 100 other 1gen inspired concepts that have been around, and that's the problem.

It was said in the original ls1tech thread that johnnygmachine was at the same design clinic that the clay model was shown at; I don't know how much rumor or truth that is though.

I'm off the site for a few hours and I miss the pics. Darn it!!
Could someone please send them to me in a PM or e-mail them to me at HuJass@msn.com .

Thanks.

lol I missed it!!!!

is the car similar to the post I made about the hemmings muscle machines article?

http://64.65.63.61/forums/showthread.php?t=413298



and uhhh, if someone would be kind enough to email the pics to zigroid1985@hotmail.com
if not id understand

For those that haven't seen the pics....they are on the net, and for better or for worse, there's no way GM can contain them all. It's neat getting a chance to see the pics, though I totally understand GM not wanting them to get out.

That said....go search the Mustang sites.

One aspect of the pix that NOBODY has commented upon is that it appears to be a "true" hardtop. I know, things can change, that was only a clay, BUT the Challenger sure looks like a hardtop also! Maybe this is a new design direction. Its certainly possible, just "harder". The end result sure makes it worth it though.

If so, I say, about time! I commented on here several months ago that I would like to see a hardtop roof, and was told I was out of my mind in so many words by just about everybody. If they can really do it, that is sweet.

So much for that.

Red, just thank you, thank you, thank you. That car is the Camaro I've been waiting for since '92. I go a long ways back with F's, but the 4th gen never did it for me. This one does. In a way that the Mustang and Challenger don't. Even the criticisms here are nitnoids. This is FINALLY the home run GM has been craving and needing.

Just don't make us wait 3 years to get it. If Wagoner had 1/4 of a clue, he would call the whole Camaro team into his office and tell them, you have 1 year to have this thing in full rate production. Whatever you need is yours. Whatever/whoever is standing in your way will be removed. If you make it, you are rich beyond your wildest dreams, if you fail, you are looking for a job. Its a simple thing, really.

Well we definitely have something we can work with. Looks like a big seller coming. I'm with the 1st gen twin-bar taillight idea. Unlike some I don't feel the rear is too high, in fact I think it's downright stylish. The rear 1/4s are beautiful don't change them, like the Mercedes SL500 just like I said before. The front of the car looks slightly high but I don't know what can be done about that considering the engines that will go into it. I'm going to wait until I see the concept before I make the rest of my suggestions. I'm glad you didn't go replicar-retro like Daimler-Chrysler did. There's a lot there that is new and that's good.

I think the car will be met with great applause. Good job.

Ok, I like it. :D I know the production version won't be an exact replica, but I hope it smacks me in the face like this one did. :o

Scott (Fbodfather) Please, Please, Please, Please, Please, Please (Did I say please?) make the car with enough head and leg room for people over 6' 5". Most sport cars are built for smaller people but there are plenty of tall people who very much enjoy the sports cars too. My Camaro is a little tight fitting for me, but I compromise fit for form for now. :D If i can comfortably fit (and shift) in new Camaro, then that is one more sold unit when the car comes out. :bow:

Respectfully,
Brian

So was this the Clay Model they showed at the design clinic about a year ago??? Or is this something alittle closer???

I would think 3-4 weeks away from the NAIAS they would have the design nailed to one or the other (or a mix) not a 1/2 / 1/2 cut?

I think I'm liking the Drivers side better, but cannot tell wit