Some thoughts on the pictures........ [Archive] - Page 2

PacerX

12-08-2005, 08:31 AM

One last thing...the car is not retro.......it really isn't at all in person.

To me, it looks like it has a little bit of Cadillac A&S styling to it, so I may get there for the wrong reasons, but I agree with what you're saying here.

The first picture is also a "half & half", with one side of the car looking one way and the other looking another, and I haven't seen the other side yet.

Concerns:

1) The front and rear fascias, as I see them, are going to be problematic. The panel split for the front fender to front fascia is usually done more like the way Grand Prix does it with the fender meeting the headlamps.

The reason that I'm concerned is that it looks like the coach joint for the Corvette (where the rear quarter meets the rear fascia) and that always looks just terrible... it never looks like it fits right, no matter what.

2) The front passenger side foglamp looks like a Photoshop job, because if it isn't one... it's just awful. Hey... could they sink it?

3) I NEED TO SEE THE INTERIOR PICTURES!!!!

I'll see it in person soon enough, but boy howdy - to my untrained styling eye it looks like a winnar!

GTO2Z28

12-08-2005, 08:33 AM

T tops or sunroof, I wonder what we get.

Blue89Bird

12-08-2005, 08:35 AM

T tops or sunroof, I wonder what we get.

if it's only a sunroof, I'm going to be awful pissed off. A removeable roof has worked its way into the Camaro's DNA, and IMO, theres no such thing as a Camaro without a removeable roof panel(s)

xxsaint69x

12-08-2005, 08:41 AM

is it me or does it look pretty much like a Mazda RX-8. :confused:

kick Z tail out

12-08-2005, 08:41 AM

if it's only a sunroof, I'm going to be awful pissed off. A removeable roof has worked its way into the Camaro's DNA, and IMO, theres no such thing as a Camaro without a removeable roof panel(s)
Except for the 69 Camaro, which this car mimics...

As much as I love t-tops, I'm trying to picture them on this car, and it's not lookin' too hot. I think it's going to be strictly a hardtop car, with a drop top model coming a year or two later, probably.

kick Z tail out

12-08-2005, 08:42 AM

is it me or does it look pretty much like a Mazda RX-8. :confused:
*SSSSSLAP* :mad:

:D

Blue89Bird

12-08-2005, 08:43 AM

is it me or does it look pretty much like a Mazda RX-8. :confused:

it's you.

Koby

12-08-2005, 08:48 AM

kick Z tail out

12-08-2005, 08:50 AM

Personally I could careless about pictures, I am just happy to know it is coming back and I will love it no matter how it looks, and I would imagine there are a lot of people out there with the same thoughts. There is a lot of following behind this car and a lot of those people aren't on these websites to see the pictures, and i don't think they care either. The fact that it will be back and now there is proof to support it is good enough for a lot of people.:bow:
If it came back as an ugly front driven I4/V6 I wouldn't be buying it. I think you're giving too much credit to blind love. :p

Luckily we don't have to worry about all that now. It's the right platform, and it looks good :D

FNKWICKZ-28

12-08-2005, 08:51 AM

Im just glad there making it again.

dave,

LT-14me

12-08-2005, 08:59 AM

I like it, i couldnt find any more pictures though just the main one on the site. So i dont know where you guys are getting rear views etc of the car. But i just think its funny as to how its almost identical to the concept posted here like 3 years ago. I will try to find the concept but it was the orange car (not horns 69 retro)

SNEAKY NEIL

12-08-2005, 09:01 AM

Personally I could careless about pictures, I am just happy to know it is coming back and I will love it no matter how it looks, and I would imagine there are a lot of people out there with the same thoughts. There is a lot of following behind this car and a lot of those people aren't on these websites to see the pictures, and i don't think they care either. The fact that it will be back and now there is proof to support it is good enough for a lot of people.:bow:

I think a lot of people do feel like this but this attitude is a little worrying. How far can "good enough" for Camaro enthusiasts take the car?

Chrome383Z

12-08-2005, 09:09 AM

I still think its had some Photoshop work done to it.

My Dad's first impression? He said it looks more like a MUSTANG then a Camaro. He's a GM Engineer and thinks someone's playing with us. Not that he would be in the "loop", just what he told me.

After talking with him, it does. Go look at a 67 Mustang and graft that front end on and you have that clay model... ???

Still looks cool IMO.

kick Z tail out

12-08-2005, 09:16 AM

My Dad's first impression? He said it looks more like a MUSTANG then a Camaro. He's a GM Engineer and thinks someone's playing with us. Not that he would be in the "loop", just what he told me.
Is he kidding? It looks about as much like a Mustang as it does a Civic. :p

A Mustang is a similar car... Of course the profile may be similar but to me this one looks like a 69 Camaro. Which is what I think they're going for ;)

Javier97Z28

12-08-2005, 09:18 AM

NikiVee

12-08-2005, 09:19 AM

I hope no t-tops.

ckt101

12-08-2005, 09:19 AM

Can somebody please email me these pictures? cemt101@yahoo.com Thanks.

Chrome383Z

12-08-2005, 09:35 AM

graham

12-08-2005, 10:12 AM

I believe that in a couple years there will be a '97 Z28, '98 Hombre, and '99 Z28 for sale in my front yard....

Its exactly what I expected.

STRONG heritage cues but not a 2069 Camaro. Im in LOVE all over again!

Aaron91RS

12-08-2005, 10:13 AM

I have a question for GM. Do they ever actually listen to what the people on all the Camaro boards say or do they just make what they want and tell us we better like it?
It seems GM was pissed the photo's got leaked. Well one, all publicity is good publicity and two if they listened to the customers wouldn't they want time to make changes before final production. Not wait until it's done and then have people complain about it when it's too late?
From working in a big bureaucratic company myself I think it's safe to say the big wigs in charge don't listen to the the little indians down at the bottom that might have good ideas.
Thats too bad, because the companines that use all their resources usually are best ones. Especially when you have a FREE resource like the internet.

This camaro is very similiar to the new retro mustang.(big surprise huh)
The good things(for selling, not for 'us') are it appears shorter and higher up. It's doesn't have that droppy sad eyes the mustang has(thank goodness) Perhaps you can sell a lot of v6 model to woman to make the numbers. I am sure that was the idea.
At this point there is nothing you can radically change to make it tons better.(not saying what you have is bad)
You've commited to a retro concept and you have to go with it.
The only thing is by the time it comes out the mustang will have been out in retro style for years and there is a good chance of the retro fad being on the downhill.
This would cause low sales and of course GM will blame the consumer and not understand why the car doesn't sell.
Good luck with your gamble. In the future you need to get the new trend to the market before or at the same time as the competition, not 4 years later.
While I see it competing with the charger, challenger and mustang I hope it's not heavy like those cars are the GTO.
Otherwise your going to have more growing pains as the EPA throws a fit about the gas mileage and tightens the standards.
Do yourself a favor and make it as light as possible, so you have a platform you can keep using when displacement on demand is the only way to pass EPA regulations.

I will greatly miss the t-tops which it appears will look ugly if attached to this car.

I would also start making better gears and other upgrades a very very cheap option. You know it doesn't cost more to put in 2.73's or 3.42's so don't charge us much more. GM needs to worry about market share at this point or toyota will kill you. If it comes in priced more then the mustang GT which for some reason I am sure it will, then GM will loose.
Forget employee pricing. GM needs 1969 pricing. Now there's an ad campaign. "In 1969 the performance axle was a $45 option. We'll today it is too!

FS3800

12-08-2005, 10:14 AM

I gave up after page 6.. but I'll chime in a bit...

You look at it, and you don't think to yourself: "Camaro"

Reason I say this...

The 2nd gen Camaro built off the 1st gen... you can see a natural progression, just as was the case with the 3rd and 4th gens. This car just seems like it comes out of left field.

The Vette has always been the same way, except for the very first ones.. but they all have a natural progression from generation to generation.

Something is missing here that connects it to generations past.. oh well. Time will tell.

i disagree with you that it doesnt scream "Camaro".. it has plenty of styling cues that clearly say "Camaro" to me..

but i agree that in past generations you saw a natural progression.. but here's how i look at it

1->2->3->4... break .. ,->5
|__|__|__|_____________/

SNEAKY NEIL

12-08-2005, 10:33 AM

I guess it says Camaro but it really already looks old and I am not just saying that. There is nothing really special about it. Yeah, yeah, it's retro but the problem is, as we all know, the Mustang already did that so the wow factor of a retro-modern muscle car is gone. I thnk GM is wrong if they think people will be wowed by this Camaro the same way they were with the Mustang. It's already been done! Way to be a follower. All this does, with the help of the Challenger, is legitamize the Mustangs design.

Is this GM's way of getting a quick easy fix?

Edit: Another thing that kinda pisses me off is that by only including one generation's design, it is like saying that all the others don't really have anything worth keeping or building upon and that, to me, is a little insulting.

Aaron91RS

12-08-2005, 10:41 AM

Instead of killing the firebird maybe they should take it the other way and have it be a future design.
That way people have a choice to go retro or go new.
And perhaps just once GM can start a trend and not follow it.

mtw 97z

12-08-2005, 10:52 AM

I love this car.

Unlike the Mustang, the proportions on this car are dead-on. I loved the Mustang's nose and stance up front -- but to me they concentrated on that and then cobbled together the rear. The rear-end on the Mustang is what throws the car out of proportion. And it's still too boxy for my tastes.

That said, the new Camaro has curves. I am seriously digging on those fender flares, especially the rear. I hope those remain and don't get toned down. In fact I think they could be accentuated even more. The creases/edges along the side of the car are hot, and I like the little indent along the rocker. Adds some drama to the side of the car.

Proportions are right. Long hood, short rear deck. Looks weighted towards the rear, accentuating the fact that it's RWD.

That front fascia is bad-ass. I prefer the passenger side, the driver's side (from what I can make of it) looks toned down and warmed over. Blah. I see heritage cues, I don't see retro. This car needs to be recognized definitively as a Camaro, so you have to have some sort of nod to previous models. If GM was going to do a clean-sheet design they might as well given the car another name.

To me it looks like the front-end "brow" is furrowed, giving a mean, aggressive look. I love it.

Those wheels are hot. However, we'll probably get toned down versions of those too. I loved the wheels on the original SSR concept, and I applaud GM for sticking with the overall design, but the deep-dish look was marginalized.

The stance is perfect. It's hunkered down, yet balanced. From the 3 angles I've seen I can't find fault with it. I think the overall design of the rear is good, but like others I'd like to see something different with the taillights and the rear-exhaust exit. It's a modern rear fascia though, and I like that alot. I like the blacked out lower valance.

I'm really stoked about this car. It needs t-tops though; I hope GM gets it done. I'd like to see a red bowtie in the front grille. A good spoiler will help that rear-end out too.

Very well done. I think it's more exciting than the C5 when that first came out, and even more exciting than the C6 Z06. It's a modern take on the classic musclecar. I want a well thought-out, modern, and attractive interior to go with it. Not gonna judge based on the two drawings I saw.

TechCam97

12-08-2005, 10:53 AM

Is he kidding? It looks about as much like a Mustang as it does a Civic. :p

A Mustang is a similar car... Of course the profile may be similar but to me this one looks like a 69 Camaro. Which is what I think they're going for ;)
Seriously. Think about it, the 69 body style sold so well that they had to extend production into 1970! Something about that car struck a chord with the public and it's not a surprise that they're trying to recapture the excitement that the original had. I don't care what anyone says, the car is going to look good and those pictures are probably edited to not give the car totally away. We'll find out in about a month though!

PacerX

12-08-2005, 10:54 AM

i disagree with you that it doesnt scream "Camaro".. it has plenty of styling cues that clearly say "Camaro" to me..

but i agree that in past generations you saw a natural progression.. but here's how i look at it

1->2->3->4... break .. ,->5
|__|__|__|_____________/

What???

This is the first Camaro concept I have ever seen that looks anything like a previous generation.

The only similarities between generations previously was the hood badge.

Corvette intentionally has carried cues from generation to generation, Camaro never has.

I dare somebody to point out the similarities styling-wise between an early F4 and an F1. Apart from the general layout of the car, there weren't any - and that's not a criticism, BTW - I think it was intentional.

Full Throttle Speed

12-08-2005, 11:04 AM

Car looks good, my wish list:
Get rid of the scoop on the side and just make it smooth for my taste the scoop looks to much like a Mustang, without it the whole car looks more agressive.
A "1969" style rear spolier (as an option)
Needs big power as an option
Mike

Eric77TA

12-08-2005, 11:04 AM

Seriously. Think about it, the 69 body style sold so well that they had to extend production into 1970!

Actually, Fisher Body had problems with the stamping dies for the rear quarter panels for the 1970 model, so it was decided to keep builing the '69 until the problem could be rectified. Nonetheless, the 1969 Camaro is certainly one of the most popular verisons ever.

TechCam97

12-08-2005, 11:07 AM

Actually, Fisher Body had problems with the stamping dies for the rear quarter panels for the 1970 model, so it was decided to keep builing the '69 until the problem could be rectified. Nonetheless, the 1969 Camaro is certainly one of the most popular verisons ever.
No matter what the reasons were, they still had to sell them and there certainly wasn't a shortage of buyers. When you see a bad ass Camaro in a magazine or when someone is asked to pick out their favorite Camaro, 99% of the time they'll point to the 69.

FS3800

12-08-2005, 11:09 AM

What???

This is the first Camaro concept I have ever seen that looks anything like a previous generation.

The only similarities between generations previously was the hood badge.

Corvette intentionally has carried cues from generation to generation, Camaro never has.

I dare somebody to point out the similarities styling-wise between an early F4 and an F1. Apart from the general layout of the car, there weren't any - and that's not a criticism, BTW - I think it was intentional.

i'm not saying that the F4 looks anything like the F1.. i'm saying the F2 takes many cues from the F1, the F3 takes a lot from the F2 but not the same stuff that the F2 had from the F1.. and the F4 takes a lot from the F3 but not the same stuff that the F3 had from the F2.. it's a progression.. the F4 doesnt look hardly anything like the F2 or F1 but it has a lot of similarities with the F3..

the F5 however takes from all generations imo..

thats why with my diagram i had an arrow from 1 to 2, from 2 to 3 and from 3 to 4, but 5 had an arrow coming from all 4 other generaions pointing to it..

no arrows from 1 to 4 there

Big Als Z

12-08-2005, 11:09 AM

from first to 2nd, 2nd to third and third to 4th, very little carries over as far as design.
First gen is clearly a 3 box design, very 60's design. 2nd gen, early. look NOTHING LIKE A FIRST!!! Ferrari-esque body lines, fast back, circle tail lights, large center grill...nothing like the first gen.
Late 2nd gen to Third gen...same thing. Goes from fast back to hatch back, third gens get a very chisled look, square headlights, loses a few lbs and a few inches, greenhouse is changed up, car wins COTY.
Third gen to 4th, 4th gens take on a very round shape, longer body, same wheel base. greenhouse changed further, but keeps the hatch design. Everything is different.
No one gen looks like another. There is no need to start now.

Eric77TA

12-08-2005, 11:11 AM

No matter what the reasons were, they still had to sell them and there certainly wasn't a shortage of buyers. When you see a bad ass Camaro in a magazine or when someone is asked to pick out their favorite Camaro, 99% of the time they'll point to the 69.

Yes, that's why I said it was one of the most popular versions ever. Many, many people consider it to be the "Quintessential" Camaro and it seems like virtually every 1st Gen. you see on the road is a '69 - but I was just pointing out it wasn't extended by "Popular Demand." But you're certainly correct, they weren't hard to find homes for.

Jim85IROC

12-08-2005, 11:13 AM

My overall opinion of the car is reasonably good, though I certainly will need to see the finished product to form my final opinion. There are things that I think look terrible (mirrors), not so good (interior, tail lamps, certain aspects to the headlight area), and things that I think look fantastic (coke bottle shape, roofline, cowl hood).

Considering that I thought the current Mustang prototype was terrible looking, but now I find myself fascinated by the production mustang, I can only hope that once this prototype gets toned down to the production version, that I'll absolutely love it. I can very realistically see myself buying my first new car when this comes out. By then my Corvette will be paid off, and by selling the Corvette I'll have enough money down to make the monthly payments managable. :)

But anyway... the car's appearance is really a secondary consideration for me. I'm much more concerned about the car's performance. This car needs to have better performance than the competition for me to buy it. I don't necessarily need it to slaughter the competition like the LS1 cars did to the Mustangs of the time, but it's got to be as good or better than something else. I also would prefer a solid rear axle unless this new IRS can hook as good as the corvette IRS. The crap under the GTO and CTS/V does not belong on any car that will be drag raced. But, a C4 style IRS isn't likely to be cheap enough to make it worth the extra cost over a solid axle... but please give us something that's significantly stronger than necessary instead of a glass 10 bolt, or a newer equivalent that won't hold up to modified powertrains.

I also would like to see a t-top or targa option. Leaky or not, there's nothing better to me than pulling my t-tops off my IROC or pulling the roof off my Corvette on a nice summer day. However, a latch style mecanism would be VASTLY preferred to the lousy bolt-on roof that my C4 uses.

Lastly, I want my money to go toward the performance. Interior quality is nice and all, but given a certain budget, I would prefer it get spent on performance. I'd rather have my money get spent on light weight and more horsepower. If having both means a bloated, expensive car like the GTO, then I don't want it. I'm perfectly happy with the cheesy interior in my C4, and I'm satisfied with the 4th gen interiors. However, if an interior of better quality can be made without costing more, then I'm all for it. Just don't load the car down with 500 pounds of sound deadening and unnecessarily heavy interior parts. There are ways to make door panels squeek free and asthetically pleasing without making them overly heavy.

The only place where I would really hope that the interior does get improved is in seat material quality. Whether it's leather or cloth, please use something that won't wear through in 30k miles. My girlfriend's camry has 150k miles on the car and the seats are in much better shape then the seats in my Corvette were in when I bought it with 38k miles.

But overall... I'm very impressed and I certainly am looking forward to seeing the actual prototype pics in January.

centric

12-08-2005, 11:16 AM

Late to the party here.

I understand Red's comments about first impressions, but . . . I'm underwhelmed. And concerned.

I'll try to break it down.

First, the proportions. This car seems to be a good bit taller than a 4th gen, which was taller than a third. I joked about the new Camaro becoming an SUV a couple of years ago--and this is a little close for comfort.

Also, concepts usually gain quite a bit of bloat and height going from concept to production (like the Mustang), so if this is the sleek oh-wowie version, I'm really really scared abou what the real thing will look like.

Second, the roofline. Argh. Yuck. Can we have something any more ancient than the 1st gen roofline? I would have vastly preferred something more flowing, more modern. The bottom half of the car has enough styling cues from the first gen to make the point very, very well by itself.

I would have liked this car much better if there wasn't a retro Challenger coming out as well. Three retro cars is a bit much. I would have liked to see GM look more to the future.

But, who knows? As a convertible it could be a very nice car. And if the price is right, I'll probably pick up one.

I just wish we could look forward again.

SNEAKY NEIL

12-08-2005, 11:17 AM

the F5 however takes from all generations imo..

What styling cues do you see from other generations?

67speeda

12-08-2005, 11:23 AM

I just want to say that I am in love with the new car just as it is in the pics

Few things...

I dislike the side mirrors…not because of looks or function, but rather the ppl that will be getting sliced by them walking by lol

I have to disagree with a lot of the post about the overall car. It has the classic lines, WHICH ARE SELLING. At this point GM should do what ever it takes to sell. I love the front grill area because it reminds me of the best car ever made, my 67 camaro (lol)

I love the exhaust round, flat tips just don’t seem muscle like to me

Form what I can see, it seems they have a cowl induction like hood, which I am a huge fan of. Noting looks meaner than a car with a raised hood the fit a monster under it.

The dash is plain and smooth, the way I like it. Keep in mind the market the camaro should be aiming at.

As many have said I would like to see a spoiler like the fist gens on the truck lid as an option.

Overall I love it and I would def get one....once some1 loans me the money lol

unvc92camarors

12-08-2005, 11:50 AM

Finally made it to the end.....
and now I have nothing to say...shrug

luis nunez

12-08-2005, 11:51 AM

I love it!!:bow:

Just one thing now, fix the front end of my 04 Tiburon or start my savings account for my new Camaro!!:D

Jason E

12-08-2005, 12:01 PM

I've been semi-comatose since last night with the friggen flu, and just woke up. Now, those pics that were elusive seem too easy to come by :D My thoughts:

Highs:
1) Long hood, short deck
2) Love the fender bulges over the wheels
3) Love the wheels :D
4) Good stance
5) Nicely sculpted sides

Lows:
1) I know Scott said there were some 11th hr changes to the nose. I hope that is true, and the nose is softened a little. To the general public (NOT those who will know the difference), this thing has the bull-nosed look of the Charger and the Mustang :(
2) The fender vents have to go. Have to.
3) Charlie said the character line along the lower portion of the car seems off...I tend to agree. It cuts in too far to meet up with the vent. If the vent wasn't there, voila...clean sides.
4) Those tailights look completely squashed :(

The Verdict:
Less retro than its competitors, but more retro than I'd hoped for. Dump the vents and clean up the sides, and it would look much more contemporary IMO.

I think I'll be more impressed in person. Going back to sleep now to recover...but at least I'll have semi-sweet dreams :D

PacerX

12-08-2005, 12:20 PM

What styling cues do you see from other generations?

Well...

It's got round wheels and tires.

FS3800

12-08-2005, 12:21 PM

i think the rear would look so much better if they just took out the divider between the taillights.. something like this:
http://home.comcast.net/~builder228/stuff/ib9f9t2.jpg
now that's hot

Z284ever

12-08-2005, 12:25 PM

i think the rear would look so much better if they just took out the divider between the taillights.. something like this:
http://home.comcast.net/~builder228/stuff/ib9f9t2.jpg
now that's hot

You know, I think someone needs to grab a big honkin' trowel and scrape away ALL the clay on the rear fascia....and start completely from scratch.

I'm hoping the car I see in Jan will have already had that done.

CLEAN

12-08-2005, 12:25 PM

I've only seen three pix, pass front quarter, pass rear quarter, and a forward looking interior sketch, so I don't know if there are others.

The Front Quarter:
NICE. The mirrors are obviously silly, so theres still a question as to what production mirrors will look like, but thats no biggie. The front grill and headlights are nice. The foglights, or turn signals or whatever they are...not sure which one is better, but thats not a big thing for me. I like the wheel well flares without the '69 swoops, looks cleaner. I like the edgy overall look, while incorporating some curves and style. Excellent. I like the stance, I like the apparent size. I like the cowl induction hood. Basically the only thing I'd change on this view is to clean up the lower grille and foglights, get a real mirror, and thats it. AWESOME!

The Rear Quarter:
Hmmmmm. Ok, I like the greenhouse, perfect. The tail lights need work. I don't know what, but they're just not right. Also, the way the peaked fenders end up at a higher level than the middle of the trunk needs to be balanced out somehow, maybe with a C6-like spoiler/brake light. The license plate looks to be mounted too high, most cars these days has it lower in the bumper. The exhausts are waaaay too big, and the chopped top is strange looking, though it matches the tail lights, which are also strange looking. Round tips don't really look good on this car, it needs something more angular, and mounted lower. It's hard to see much of what the diffuser panel looks like. In summary, change every element of the rear end I'm sorry to say.

The Interior:
Nice. I like the use of color, the console mounted guages, the round speedo and tach, the chrome/aluminum accents, and the contrasting stitching. I dislike the combination of round and rectangular a/c vents, that looks strange. I would like to see a real dash too. This one has no hvac, lighting, or radio controls. I would like to see those in place to see if it disrupts the flow of the design. But overall, I'm liking the interior! Offer it in RED!

Jim85IROC

12-08-2005, 12:29 PM

I agree. I think that tail light style completely changes the car for the better.

Big Als Z

12-08-2005, 12:30 PM

I hope, for just the sake of keeping the coupes looking like a familiy, that they use cirlce tail lights. Not oval, not qazi-cirlce, I want C6, LED lit, circle tail lights. Share the damn things if you have to and save on cost.

And I will say, that the stupid LS1tech.com logo couldnt have been placed in a better place so that the logo's lines blend in with the lines of the car, probably giving off some bad vibes.

SNEAKY NEIL

12-08-2005, 12:30 PM

The exhaust tips remind me of the "supertrap" tips, and that is NOT a good thing.

What is going on in the black area that we can't see? Why is the rear bumper, or whatever it is supposed to be, so high up? It looks like the car was kicked in the arse.

FS3800

12-08-2005, 12:35 PM

FS380, pics are not allowed to be posted, unless you like black suburbans;)

the pics are out there, GM kinda gave up on trying to keep them quiet as far as i understand the situation

if pics are not allowed to be posted.. i'll let a Mod take the link down.. and if that's the case, i'm sorry i didnt know

till then it stays

Jim85IROC

12-08-2005, 12:37 PM

Big Als Z

12-08-2005, 12:55 PM

I like the black portion that many cars are getting now, that flat black "defuser" pannel. But yes, this car suffers, like the 4th gen did, from Assupintheairitus.

SGT Posaune

12-08-2005, 01:37 PM

Does it say "Camaro" under the right tail light or something else? It is hard to read.

FS3800

12-08-2005, 01:46 PM

it says Camaro, also says it on the fender behind the front wheel.. right above the body line there

Gripenfelter

12-08-2005, 02:02 PM

I hope the constructive criticism in this thread won't fall on deaf ears at GM. :)

turbo96z28

12-08-2005, 02:04 PM

I hope the constructive criticism in this thread won't fall on deaf ears at GM. :)

i think GM might be listening now more than ever.

SNEAKY NEIL

12-08-2005, 02:11 PM

i think GM might be listening now more than ever.

Don't count on it.

Apparently there was a late change in the whole design direction of the Camaro and it had nothing to do with what we have been saying or what we want. They wanted a piece of the retro Mustang pie and it seems they got it. Unfortunatly, there is a lot of pie to go around to the same crowd now, and it is all the same flavor.

rlax31

12-08-2005, 02:15 PM

I'm kind of getting tired of all these people flaming that it's too retro.

It might just be those angles you see it here that make it look retro to some, or this was an old deisign study that was meant to be a little on the retro side. But Red has ensured us that the car we will see in a month is not retro. Some classic design cues yes, but they tell us "the FUTURE looks bright" and I don't think they'd say that if the car was too much from the PAST.

I'm not bailing on our trusted high up board members. The more I look at it the more evolutionary it looks. I'm sure what is shown next month will be a knockout, and when Ford and Dodge have to restyle they're retro cars in a few years and have no where to go, GMs evolution will shine though even more.

90rocz

12-08-2005, 02:29 PM

You know, I think someone needs to grab a big honkin' trowel and scrape away ALL the clay on the rear fascia....and start completely from scratch.:thumb:
Kinda cartoony, but again a lot of "concepts" are...just think it needs to remain more vertical maybe, as heritage, on the rear...and some modern lights...if circular, please no huge "fish eyes" like the older Impy's. ;)
Side mirrors look like ones on "Need For Speed" video game.
I hope the sides are smoothed out some too, too angular.
I just keep remembering, this has got to be up to date for 2008...ish, looks like it'd compete with an 05 Stang right now..to me. ;)

I wish it were somewhere between the one it is, and the Sharky's concept.
(personal opions ok, ;) )

hotrodtodd74

12-08-2005, 02:36 PM

I LOVE IT!

This is the Camaro I want to buy!

Admiral Z

12-08-2005, 02:38 PM

I LOVE IT!!! If it does end up like this, though I know it will change somewhat, this car will without question help me to continue being a Camaro enthusiast and I will be proud to own one, or two or however many, because I know once I see all the possible diffrent versions I'm going to want them all, we just better not have to wait untill 2009, I'm serious, damnit, I mean it, I want this yesterday GM!

I'm not kidding, I want it now!!!:cry:

eboggs_jkvl

12-08-2005, 02:48 PM

We were asked to remove the pictures from www.ls2.com. LS1tech watermarked the pictures and were asked to remove them from their site. How did you guys swing permission to watermark the Copyrighted pictures with your site name and present them to the public on this site?

E:)

Chris 96 WS6

12-08-2005, 02:49 PM

DrewSG

12-08-2005, 02:50 PM

C&G has a thread with the pictures on it, that has the LS1tech watermarks on it.

Abidar

12-08-2005, 02:51 PM

Exactly what i was wondering, eboggs. Now anyone who types camaroz28.com gets to see the new camaro...

Maybe GM is stirring the kettle and this is an old concept... maybe Scott getting pissed was part of the plot. Look what this forum has done to me, conspiracy theories and such...

eboggs_jkvl

12-08-2005, 02:53 PM

You didn't get the memo from Settlemire saying that GM had called the dogs off?

Nope, must have missed that memo.

E:)

hotrodtodd74

12-08-2005, 02:59 PM

So,

What is the concensous here - is this the car we are going to see at NAIAS next month or not? Or is it going to be completely different?

turbo96z28

12-08-2005, 03:02 PM

we even have the pics posted in a thread on this site.......it's in the lounge.

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414450

91_z28_4me

12-08-2005, 03:19 PM

So,

What is the concensous here - is this the car we are going to see at NAIAS next month or not? Or is it going to be completely different?
Not completely different but there WILL be changes.

hotrodtodd74

12-08-2005, 03:27 PM

Not completely different but there WILL be changes.

I hope it's not too different. For one thing they got the overall look and stance NAILED! Also, I love the shape of the greenhouse. I think the front to rear 3/4 profile is awesome.

To me this design is not completely retro. Sure it has a few hat-tips to the first generation, but overall it is a purely modern interpretation of the muscle/pony car.

CLEAN

12-08-2005, 03:31 PM

A few thoughts from "Mrs. Clean":

1. My family had a '68 Camaro which was the first real car I remember, so naturally, I have a very soft spot for Camaros. I really like the retro styling of the concept. It reminds me very much of the '68 Camaro.

2. Please offer it with a red interior.

3. Please consider keeping it as true to the first generation as possible. If Ford can accomplish having a retro Mustang, GM can surely accomplish having a retro Camaro.

4. I like the interior - what I can see of it, anyway. What about a bench seat in the back? ? Our '68 had a bench seat, and my sister (who was 16 at the time) and I (8) could easily and comfortably ride in the back seat.

Just please do whatever it takes to make this a car that people will recognize and want to buy! Can't wait to see the real thing!!

SNEAKY NEIL

12-08-2005, 03:35 PM

4. I like the interior - what I can see of it, anyway. What about a bench seat in the back? ? Our '68 had a bench seat, and my sister (who was 16 at the time) and I (8) could easily and comfortably ride in the back seat.

Oh my god NO! One of the only things I like about the whole concept is the rear seat treatment. Sadly, the way things are going, a bench seat doesn't seem too far fetched.

turbo96z28

12-08-2005, 03:35 PM

CLEAN

12-08-2005, 03:37 PM

the pics are out there, GM kinda gave up on trying to keep them quiet as far as i understand the situation

if pics are not allowed to be posted.. i'll let a Mod take the link down.. and if that's the case, i'm sorry i didnt know

till then it stays
They wern't allowed, but now I guess they are. Things are happening too fast to keep up!

detltu

12-08-2005, 03:47 PM

I don't think the car is as retro as everyone is making it out to be. I personally like the passenger side front overall with the driverside foglights.
I like the greenhouse. The rear quarter definately screams '69 as do the side vents(these need to change IMO) I also liked the speed lines on some of the concepts but that might be too much for some people.
The rear is a little too high but definately not retro. I see a little Z06 in it. I don't know which side of the rear I like better but leaning toward the driver side. I like the squarish taillights but wouldn't be dissapointed with some C6ish rounds.

I'm exited about seeing the final version in Jan. I am also ready to see what kind of engines will be available and when I will actually be able to take delivery of mine.:D

taner

12-08-2005, 04:42 PM

Scott,

sorry to see that it was leaked out!!! nice to see something though :)

as far as my .02....

yeah it looks cool, needs a few things tweaked as other people mentioned, but why go retro???? nott that it matters what i think, millions of dollars in design, tools, etc. etc.... has gone on. someone else had mentioned why not build a car that suits the times. i mean the 4th gen f bod is awesome looking, no it didn't look like a first gen, but if i wanted a first gen i would have bought one.

either way, take care of yourself and hopefully see you around at some local events in like 5 months, lol!!! :)

taner

97WS6SCharged

12-08-2005, 05:03 PM

Just don't put the engine under the dash in this car. Pretty please. ;)

kick Z tail out

12-08-2005, 05:09 PM

I hope the constructive criticism in this thread won't fall on deaf ears at GM. :)
I hope they aren't flooded with ridiculous demands that end up screwing things up. ;)

mako350Z28

12-08-2005, 05:36 PM

The more I look at this pic the more it looks like a Vette with a Camaro front end. Look at the lines down the side.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a223/NOS2006/SSnowmanJPG.jpg[/QUOTE]

NikiVee

12-08-2005, 05:54 PM

I think the Camaro is as retro as the 300C. In other words it may look "retro" but at the same time it also looks like a fresh design.

FS3800

12-08-2005, 06:02 PM

The more I look at this pic the more it looks like a Vette with a Camaro front end. Look at the lines down the side.

i can kinda see what your talking about.. and i don't mind one bit

67 LS-1 & T-56

12-08-2005, 06:56 PM

The only "people" that would be "listening" are market research analysts. Blah blah.

I'm pretty sure RP would take some stuff to heart.

If you know who that is.

67 LS-1 & T-56

12-08-2005, 07:03 PM

Actually, I do not.

Wow, big surprise.

DWray

12-08-2005, 07:05 PM

Wow, big surprise.

:lol:

:p

BigggD222

12-08-2005, 07:12 PM

67 LS-1 & T-56

12-08-2005, 07:15 PM

birdonnos

12-08-2005, 07:28 PM

jimmyz

12-08-2005, 07:45 PM

where are all the pics??

DWray

12-08-2005, 08:03 PM

i like it i think it needs to be more roundish on the tail end with a small wing on the back and i thought i would throw in some flip around lights and fog lights http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48691

I like that rear end alot. :thumb:

I also like the front, but hope it stays how it is, and let the customization be done by aftermarket companies. :)

:p

SSbaby

12-08-2005, 08:14 PM

Well I originally made the comment that I thought the updated SS concept's rear lights looked good and thought they could be used on the leaked car... but they would possibly look out of place considering the car's overall lines.

When considering a design, you just can't chop and change... the look must be integrated throughout the whole car. In other words, the front and rear must be linked and not simply an amalgam of different styles put together.

While we're naturally concentrating on the exterior, I hope the interior impresses as it could put prospective buyers off the car... and into Ford showrooms.

Supergrobo82

12-08-2005, 08:24 PM

As a whole I love the car. I change the rear end a little bit, it reminds me of C6 chops in the Caddy Cien. The exhaust pipes are too importy but it's only a clay. It's retro in a good way in the sense that it's very 1st generation with the long hood and short back. I can see clues of recent concepts such as the 99 goat greenhouse. I can't wait to see how the different option packages look on the car.

People please remember that this is clay model that has two different body sizes. (I'll go with the left side) Remember that things on the car may have changed since this photo was taken.

After all of this I can see why Red has been going crazy knowing that Chevy hit David Ortiz long bomb and he can't say anything about it. Red you poor soul, but you get a standing O from me and everyone else around this place. I can't wait to see it in the flesh and with big V8 up front

guionM

12-08-2005, 08:35 PM

This thread holds the record (BY FAR) as the longest I have ever read completely through..... 1 hour and 15 minutes!

God, do I need a life. :no:

One additional comment:

I am disappointed to see just a Chevy bowtie on the front and rear.

I'd much perfer a Camaro logo.... a redesign of the traditional "Camaro Ribbon" or "Camaro Shield" or whever you'd like to call it....

I'm thinking this was the Chevy "GTO" when the picture was taken.

The Camaro name was verboten till about a year ago.

i think the rear would look so much better if they just took out the divider between the taillights.. something like this:
http://home.comcast.net/~builder228/stuff/ib9f9t2.jpg
now that's hot

I really liked the 4 light treatment, but after seeing this, I might have to change my mind. :bow:

I think the Camaro is as retro as the 300C. In other words it may look "retro" but at the same time it also looks like a fresh design.

Dead on point! :thumb:

I don't know if anyone has said this yet, i didnt feel like reading through 23 pages of forum, but I have a feeling this is more for a concept of a new Chevelle than Camaro.....call me crazy I just feel thats what this car is. What made me spark the idea was the 4 individual squarish tail lights...

I suspect you're pretty close. ;)

cook_dw

12-08-2005, 08:44 PM

This thread holds the record (BY FAR) as the longest I have ever read completely through..... 1 hour and 15 minutes!

God, do I need a life. :no:

I'm thinking this was the Chevy "GTO" when the picture was taken.

The Camaro name was verboten till about a year ago.

I really liked the 4 light treatment, but after seeing this, I might have to change my mind. :bow:

Dead on point! :thumb:

I suspect you're pretty close. ;)

Oh man that was my idea..:p

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414257&page=2

About half way down..

Joe K. 96 Zeee!!

12-08-2005, 08:48 PM

I'm thinking this was the Chevy "GTO" when the picture was taken.

The Camaro name was verboten till about a year ago.

So what's that under the right tail light? Looks like it could read "CAMARO".

30thZ286speed

12-08-2005, 08:52 PM

I think it's the actual concept with 1/2 photoshopped to show a different idea.

Drivers side = Concept. Passenger side = Photoshop.

Reasons:

1) Drivers side foglight is highly detailed. The Passengers side looks like it's pasted on there and I don't think they would go to all of the detail to make the Drivers side look good, but do such a ****ty job on the Passengers side.

2) Same thing on the Front Headlights.

3) Hood line on the Drivers side with shadows and everything looks right, Passengers looks "weird".

4) Same thing on Rear Facia.

5) The window glass. The Glass on the Drivers side looks "real". The glass on the passenger side looks again pasted or drawn on there.

So in my conclusion and I'll have to save it all till January is that the "Drivers side" is what we WILL see (short of minor changes) come NAIAS. The Passengers side? Well, I'll let you make the verdict on that...

Its a full size (life size) clay model split down the middle to show two different styling exercises on the same body. Some parts are just tacked on plastic or whatever materials.
They did the same thing with the C6 during its development there were several models split down the middle, one C6 model used camera lenses for the headlights just to give an idea of what the exposed headlights might look like.

Chrome383Z

12-08-2005, 09:15 PM

Is this a Chevelle and not a Camaro?

Joe K. 96 Zeee!!

12-08-2005, 09:33 PM

Sure looks like CAMARO to me!

http://x12.putfile.com/12/34120320960.jpg

ckt101

12-08-2005, 09:44 PM

It's game 7 of the world series, ninth inning, GM down by 3 with the bases loaded and two out. GM brings the new Camaro to the plate. It's a deep blast to center, no doubt about it, kiss it goodbye, GM hits a grand slam. :D

In other words, I really like it (well duh) :)

Tanker Don

12-08-2005, 09:53 PM

I'll take mine in Red. Great job Scott... beautiful concept. I know it will continue to be refined... but you nailed the design... right on target... now BUILD IT!!!!!!!

SNEAKY NEIL

12-08-2005, 10:11 PM

I don't know if anyone has said this yet, i didnt feel like reading through 23 pages of forum, but I have a feeling this is more for a concept of a new Chevelle than Camaro.....call me crazy I just feel thats what this car is. What made me spark the idea was the 4 individual squarish tail lights...

Are you saying that you think the car looks like a concept Chevelle or you think this concept would make a better Chevelle than Camaro?

From the pics shown, there is no way this car can be anything other than a
retro 1st gen Camaro concept. I don't see even the smallest bit of Chevelle in that concept.

sb427f-car

12-08-2005, 10:15 PM

All that said..........I hope you like what you saw. It is not the finished concept...and moreover, you can never adequately or fairly judge a product by a picture......esp. one like you saw. I hope that each of you will get to see the concept in person as it tours the country to several autoshows and events.......and that you are even more excited and enthused.

I hope that there's a lot of good that comes from this unfortunate experience......and that now, most, if not all of you can plainly see that 'The Future Indeed Looks Bright!"

What shows can we see the car at, or are we not privy to that info yet? Please tell me either Baltimore or Philly (or both) will have it.

Joe K. 96 Zeee!!

12-08-2005, 10:22 PM

What shows can we see the car at, or are we not privy to that info yet? Please tell me either Baltimore or Philly (or both) will have it.

There were shows that were listed in a post about 2 weeks ago. May be in the Future Vehicles forum?? Detroit is the unveiling. It'll be at New York from what I remember.

sb427f-car

12-08-2005, 10:30 PM

There were shows that were listed in a post about 2 weeks ago. May be in the Future Vehicles forum?? Detroit is the unveiling. It'll be at New York from what I remember.
Thanks. Guess I'll have to track that one down. I can't make it to NYC, since it's probably during tax season and I'm busy / working 6 days a week generally then :(. Same reason I can't think of coming to NAIAS until I'm out of public accounting, or find a way to swing it once I get some seniority.

Supergrobo82

12-08-2005, 10:45 PM

Just a few things I was thinking about after posting and eating dinner. Feel free to comment on what I say good/bad or whatever.

1)To start with, this photo of the two different body heights has to be a few years old. Comparing body heights is not something that is done at the end of design. My guess is from what Danno saw at the clinic this photo must be dated from late 2003. Since the concept is comming out in a few weeks and the concept will probably be very similar to the production version, the design has probably been frozen for a while and therefore quite possible that these photos are not dead on.

2) Along with that idea comes the idea of how and why these photos were "leaked". Besides the usually ideas of someone trying to make money by leaking them or an outside supplier being the cause of the leaks is it possible that it was GM itself who leaked the photos to drum up good publicity. Think about it, GM has gotten it's unfair share of bad press about stock prices but also think about one other important thing, the challenger pics that I'm 99.9 percent sure were leaked by DCX. Woudn't you want to shut everyone up and bring on good press with a design that would blow everyone out of the water.

It might be the reason why GM hasn't reacted the same way like when the ZO6 pics were posted, it may because they leaked it themselves or someone else leaked it and GM isn't going ape because they know the real car is better than that.

Note: When I mention GM leaking photos, i hope everyone understands that it would be people a little more up than Red. He's too much of class act and straight shooter

Isn't it funny that the ZO6 leak was about exactly a year ago

pickardracing

12-08-2005, 10:47 PM

My take, for better or worse:

I like it for the most part, and I'm sure the production car will be very good and much different from these pics, but I dont see one damn bit of 3rd or 4th gen influence. Hopefully this was remedied in the final concept. There are a great few cars in the world, at least in my opinion, that are better looking than those two. Theres not much 2G in it either, save for the taillamps.

Also, I hope in some small way that the Tri-bar logo is used rather than a bowtie. Kinda like the vette has no bowtie on it and the mustang has a very low-key ford designation. Its more than just another chevy car imo.

All in all, im just happy to see it back.

RussStang

12-08-2005, 10:54 PM

but I dont see one damn bit of 3rd or 4th gen influence. Hopefully this was remedied in the final concept.

Also, I hope in some small way that the Tri-bar logo is used rather than a bowtie. Kinda like the vette has no bowtie on it and the mustang has a very low-key ford designation. Its more than just another chevy car imo.

Two very good suggestions. How hard could it be to put the Tri-bar logo on the front?

jrp4uc

12-08-2005, 11:18 PM

:thumb: I like it a lot! I bet it will look even better in person. I like the interior very much as well! Be interesting to see what's changed at NAIAS... Good job GM! :thumb:

GrayZ28

12-08-2005, 11:36 PM

Guess I'll throw my couple pennies in as well. Just by the front view pic I have to say it strikes me as kinda weird looking. The sharp pointy mirrors and the front clip are what throw me for a loop. And the rearend is kinda odd looking to me also. But then again i wasn't a fan of the fourth gens when they came out and i now own a 94. I also know that this is just a concept and the final product may not look exactly like the one pictured. I'm sure that if i saw it in person i would get a totally different vib from it. Although i can't really give any constructive ideas that i think would better improve it, i am happy that a new Camaro is in the works. Whether the masses like it or hate it I say good job to all at Chevrolet for making this happen and i look forward to seeing one when they hit the showroom floor.

GrayZ28

MarcR94v6

12-08-2005, 11:49 PM

Seems to me like the leaked pictures were only a first draft, and are probably older than we will ever know. I wouldn't bet that it looks that way in production, although it does look ok so far.

Chocolate Apocalypse

12-09-2005, 12:22 AM

All I know is come January 8th I will be sitting in front of my computer, weeping. Weeping like a man who has just found his best boyhood friend, Teddy, who he hadnt seen in 25+ years and just happened to find while snooping around in a dark corner of my mom's attic last week. :shame:

FS3800

12-09-2005, 12:23 AM

Oh man that was my idea..:p

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414257&page=2

About half way down..

i posted mine about 4 hours ahead of you ;)

67 LS-1 & T-56

12-09-2005, 12:32 AM

This thread holds the record (BY FAR) as the longest I have ever read completely through..... 1 hour and 15 minutes!

God, do I need a life. :no:

I'm thinking this was the Chevy "GTO" when the picture was taken.

The Camaro name was verboten till about a year ago.

I really liked the 4 light treatment, but after seeing this, I might have to change my mind. :bow:

Dead on point! :thumb:

I suspect you're pretty close. ;)

I'm still pretty sure it says camaro like I told Big a few posts ahead of you. And just looking at the car, it's screaming Camaro at me. I'm definatly not in as much of a position make judgements about the car as you are, but I think what we're seeing was definatly designed as a CAMARO.

90rocz

12-09-2005, 12:34 AM

I like the cleaned up rendering a lot more, just needs a modern look to stuff the grill, and "if" they must put a chrome bar/Chevron on it, put it under the grill area similar to 1st gen bumper. Maybe same on the back, if necessary.
Some '68 pics, since the "look" has similarities:
http://chevyhiperformance.com/featuredvehicles/0511ch_camaro/
I can't seem to import them here.

Reno Leigh

12-09-2005, 12:40 AM

THAT CAR LOOKS REALLY GOOD!!!!!!, I give it an 8 on a 1-10 scale. Definitely something I would buy AS IS if these images are even 60-70 percent of a true representation.

I think the photos out now is actually a plus, it sort of steals the Challengers thunder.

I dont know how some of you guys can be so picky. This thing will be light years better than a fourth gen.

I also want a firebird as bad as any of you, but this Camaro will be just fine, thanks.

In no particular order, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK: GOD; GM; SCOTT S; BOB LUTZ; RICK WAGONER; and BILL FORD THAT WE ARE FINALLY REALLY GETTING A CAR. That it looks this good is a bonus.

SageofKnight

12-09-2005, 01:33 AM

I think it looks pretty close to what I thought it would. My anti-retro stance was more about having a copy of the Mustang stigma, but I suppose this isn't going to change.

Note: I didn't get to see most of the pictures (just the main page one and the back of the car)

My .02

1. I'd like to see the front headlight/grill area angled back a little more to reduce frontal area. I'm also thinking the grill is a little too rectangular, it could use a larger headlight area to take up some space. Maybe it's just too thin.

2. I'm pretty sure the rear pillar isn't going to make production, but it really does need to be small(er) for visibility.

I would have liked a modern frontend but I do like the overall look of the car. As long as the car comes in at a 7.0lb/HP or so power:weight ratio I'll be happy.

p.s.

-Keeping fingers crossed for a Firebird/TA, make the GTO a collectors item.

Capt. Insaino

12-09-2005, 02:28 AM

Lets set up a race with my Z/28 versus a new one and if I win, I get a new Z/28 at 1969 pricing! Deal?

I'll even let you ride in it, Doug! ;) lol!

Brangeta

12-09-2005, 03:45 AM

This sucks... I never saw the pics... :(

BigggD222

12-09-2005, 04:37 AM

Are you saying that you think the car looks like a concept Chevelle or you think this concept would make a better Chevelle than Camaro?

From the pics shown, there is no way this car can be anything other than a
retro 1st gen Camaro concept. I don't see even the smallest bit of Chevelle in that concept.

It could go either way on what it could be. I think it would make a better Chevelle with the longer front end and the way the back end looks, but thats just my OWN opinion. I would much rather see an evolution than a form of Devolution, in which they give the car more retro look than evolved look...know what I'm saying? I'll take a new Camaro no matter what and most likely buy one when I get out of college in a few years, or a 2nd gen GTO (2nd gen as in new GTO) if they look good and have decent power as I am a Pontiac man! I know if that thing was a Chevelle my old man would go nucking futs and prolly buy 5 of them!

greg_nate

12-09-2005, 07:22 AM

It more than says Camaro to me. In some ways, it is more 1st gen than a 1st gen. Kinda like a caricature of itself, but with style. As I stared at the picture, I found myself wondering how I could be so attracted to the lines - particularly, the line from the nose to the rear of the side window. That curvy line alone says Camaro.

The greenhouse is just amazing. Nothing less. The only thing I'd change if I had the choice would be the rear facia...as was mentioned earlier, Horton's would look good on this thing.

I think it will sell very well, although I have two fears:

- Pricing
- Too long 'till production. I am worried about GM's ability to get good things to market in a timely manner. Other makers seem to be able to do it in a year's time...GM takes about 3. Will they miss the boat again? I say it should be prioritized with paid overtime and whatever it takes, so it can hit showrooms this time next year.

Darth Xed

12-09-2005, 08:35 AM

Sure looks like CAMARO to me!

http://x12.putfile.com/12/34120320960.jpg

I agree totally. That was one of the first "little things" I noticed when I saw the pictures.

"CAMARO" is also on the front fender behind the front wheel....

Zoomin

12-09-2005, 02:50 PM

I'm an extreme retro fan, probably because I own a 69. If I were in charge, I'd make the 69 all over again with some tweaks for modern regulations, but have C6 underpinnings and drive train. I don't think they could make them fast enough.

But having said that, I think this one would do pretty well. This concept seems to strike a balance that should appeal to a lot of people. My advice would be to give it the quality of the current GTO at a minimum, but don't come in overweight and underpowered, like the GTO and SSR. Don't underproduce them either, as the dealers will turn everyone off with their adjusted market pricing, which was very hard for the GTO to overcome.

Great effort, guys! :yes:

93Zblack

12-09-2005, 04:56 PM

Honestly, How long will this retro fad last? I personally was hoping for something never seen before but the car as it is now is beautiful but in 2009 will people still take to retro like they are now? Or if the retro look is still in will the camaro just blend in with all the other cars kinda like the 4th gen did?

HOTCIVIC

12-09-2005, 05:16 PM

If the NAIS version looks anything like the photos we've been seeing lately, I am going to be one happy camper.

The new Camaro has been like the silhouette of a shark swimming through the murky waters of my dreams. I knew it was coming, and although I didn't know what it would look like, I had an idea in the back of my mind. And if everything turns out the way I hope, GM will have nailed it dead on.

I can already picture myself driving the finished concept down University Ave in St. Paul. Windows down, radio off, the sweet sounds of a V8 burbling out the exhaust. Porky's Drive-Thru is up ahead and it is packed. As I get closer, running about 20 mph, I downshift to first and let the motor talk back a little. Everyone's heads turn and people gawk at this beautiful masterpiece.

I can see it now. It is going to happen. This is the car I've been waiting for my whole life.

JasonD

12-09-2005, 06:13 PM

Chrome383Z

12-09-2005, 06:23 PM

:bow: If the NAIS version looks anything like the photos we've been seeing lately, I am going to be one happy camper.

The new Camaro has been like the silhouette of a shark swimming through the murky waters of my dreams. I knew it was coming, and although I didn't know what it would look like, I had an idea in the back of my mind. And if everything turns out the way I hope, GM will have nailed it dead on.

I can already picture myself driving the finished concept down University Ave in St. Paul. Windows down, radio off, the sweet sounds of a V8 burbling out the exhaust. Porky's Drive-Thru is up ahead and it is packed. As I get closer, running about 20 mph, I downshift to first and let the motor talk back a little. Everyone's heads turn and people gawk at this beautiful masterpiece.

I can see it now. It is going to happen. This is the car I've been waiting for my whole life.

MarineReconZ28

12-09-2005, 07:15 PM

turbo96z28

12-09-2005, 07:45 PM

HuJass

12-09-2005, 08:15 PM

I've finally seen the pics and am ready to comment on them. I just hope all the significant people haven't given up on this thread now that it's reached 26 pages (wow). Here's me thoughts:

Initial reaction: WOW. That is one sweet car.

Upon reflection: WOW. That is one sweet car.

I think the design is excellent. I LOVE the coke-bottle shape. It's cinched waist is beautiful, especially how it leads into the rear quarter vents. I'm pleased that it doesn't have those swooshes above the wheel well openings. I've never cared for those on the '69s, the last gen Impala, or the current Malibu. They're too gimmack-y. Thank God they gave the center of the vehicle a treatment more like the '67-'68 Camaros. The flared wheel well openings are awesome. Gives the car a real tough, muscular look.
I like the very back end. I like the theme of having the squared off round lights and exhaust tips. The taillights remind me of, I think, a '68 Caprice or Impala. Very different. I also like how the trunk rises from the center line as it moves towards the quarters. Reminds me of those late 50s or early 60s bat wing Impalas.
At first I was hoping the top of the greenhouse should be a little more rounded, but I thought that that may date the car a bit too much, making it look late 90s-ish. So maybe the flatter greenhouse line is correct.
In terms of the front end, it's hard for me to decide which one is better. The 2 designs side by side confuse me. I'd need to see 2 cars side by side to determine which one I like better. Kudos to the designers who shut the other design out while looking at the one design. But I think I like the left side a bit better. The chin spoiler seems to be a bit deeper and more aggressive.
I thought the interior renderings were cool. The dash was a bit spartan, would like to see a bit more something in the center stack area, maybe larger vents or maybe just moved up a bit.
The one item that bothers me is the car's rump. It looks a little wide, especially in the one pic (where the camera is down low). It kinda reminds me of a Vette in that respect. But there may be a reason for the large rump. Probably to give the car a useable trunk and so that the wheel houses don't intrude on the back seat. With that said, from a purely asthetic point of view, maybe the rump could taper in a bit more from a point on the body that is centered above the wheel hub back to the bumper. Or, reduce the taper of the greenhouse at the C-pillar.
I shouldn't complain. To me, the car is a grand slam. I love how it looks like a tight skin pulled over a muscular frame. The creases and edges and angles are great. The stance is great. The wheel/tire to body ratio is about perfect. The car has great proportions. I like the car a lot just as it is and if the production model is anything like this excercize, then it will be a hit.

I've showed the pics to a few people and they all love it. One older guy (66) said that it was an awesome looking car. That it was sharp. He also said "no offense, Mark, but that car is sharper than your T/A". He also said that it had some of the new Cadillac look to it. My g/f said that it looked kind of like a Mustang in a few areas. I think people who say it looks like a Mustang are nuts. I don't see Mustang at all in this car. But she wasn't concerned about how it looks. To her, it better be powerful and handle great; the looks are secondary.

To GM: Awesome job!! These are the kinds of designs we need to see. Not in 08 or 09 but right NOW. You want to increase market share? Fast track cars like this Camaro and others like it so that they are at dealers in a year, 2 tops, from now.

kick Z tail out

12-09-2005, 08:23 PM

Z284ever

12-09-2005, 08:58 PM

Big Als Z

12-09-2005, 09:47 PM

detltu

12-09-2005, 09:59 PM

My g/f said that it looked kind of like a Mustang in a few areas.
My Fiance said the same thing but I don't really see it that much. I think this design is much less retro than the new mustang and better looking:) . I guess the final test will be when these hit the road and I see one off in the distance if I say " thats a new Camaro" or "thats a '05 mustang". I was surprised how similair the '05 stang is to the '04 model from a distance.

slayerxxx213

12-09-2005, 10:17 PM

you know what I dont understand...is that no one has really chopped this picture? I figured that this would be the most chopped picture out there!! There would be reds and blues, yellows, with different wheels, riced out ones, ones with different design themes....Im really surprised and even a little upset about it. You might not be able to show the real pictures, but what about photochops??

Yeah, I was hoping tons of people would start choppin' it...I love seeing photochops...especially ones that are well done. Like you said, it's a bit disappointing no one has really done much with it yet...

Brangeta

12-10-2005, 01:17 AM

I'm not crazy about the fender flares. Those look very Mustangish, and Ford is using the same type of thing on a lot of their other new cars. For example, the new Mazda MX-5/Miata has them. I would heavily prefer they either disappear all together or turn into '69 Camaro hockey stick style fenders :D.

I would also have to have a 60's style Camaro lip spoiler on mine as well. No spoiler = a V6 sports car in my book. ;)

It isn't what I wanted, but it looks tough as nails, and is definitely a Camaro. What I was looking for wasn't really a Camaro, it was a Ferrari 612 crossed with a Corvette crossed with a Jaguar XK. If it is offerred with paddle shifters connected to a 6-speed auto/manumatic tranny I will be putting off paying my college loans off and getting one. Make mine Bright Blue Metallic GM :cool:

indieaz

12-10-2005, 11:07 AM

So the question remains how much will the final product look like this one? Remember what Ford did with the 05 stang - the car was done and they intentinally released a misleading concept.

My thoughts on the concept: It's less retro than i *expected* which is a good thing. I was worried we would have an '05 mustang on our hands (doesn't mean we don't until we see the final product i suppose). But all in all i am very pleased, it looks great. Except for the mirrors, but i'm sure those will change. Good work GM.

turbo96z28

12-10-2005, 11:19 AM

from what i hear, there have been a few changes to what we saw, but if the production model keeps the major styling aspects of the concept, i'll be a happy camper :D

Klypto

12-10-2005, 11:39 AM

To her, it better be powerful and handle great;

marry her. :bow:

:) cory

Evilfrog

12-10-2005, 12:49 PM

Can i trade my Cobalt SS in on it?

Morginie

12-10-2005, 01:38 PM

I love it, I think its looks awesome :bow:

It is good to see the Camaro is in good hands.:D

NightWindDriftr

12-10-2005, 01:48 PM

Wanted to throw my two cents in.

Cheers for IRS and true duals. Bowtie is alright but I'd rather see the traditional Camaro ribbon mounted in its place instead. Not liking the taillights; I prefer them either rounder or modeled after the 4th gen's. Not a fan of the exterior at all actually, but I can't deny that it's tastefully done and that a lot of thought went into its design. In other words, I have nothing but respect for it. The only real thing possibly left out of my wishlist (besides the Camaro's stablemate.. :) ) are targa/T-tops; will we see them? 7/10 stars! :D

Lt1 and Ls1

12-10-2005, 04:27 PM

I am a 26 year old female. I got my first camaro at 16. A 1991 rs, after that I was hooked. And since then I have had a 1991 z28, 1982 pace car, 1978 z28, 1989 formula, 1994 z28, 1996 trans am, 2000 special ordered SS, and now a 67. So experiencing all the previous WONDERFUL f-bods, I have to say I am very enthused. I WILL be special ordering one as soon as they say its ready to be ordered. I love the pics. I think it is wonderful and will do wonderful things for gm! YEA TO THE CAMARO:metal:

HTWLSS

12-11-2005, 03:23 PM

The countdown: http://www.camarohighway.com/Countdown.htm

Too funny! I made a countdown timer to the unveiling, changing the script from the "Countdown to the 2006 Budweiser Shootout" clock from Insider Racing News (http://insiderracingnews.com/), and variants of it are now appearing on other sites! I put my countdown timer link in my signature on Chirpthird.com (http://www.chirpthird.com) last week and it's interesting to see how it is evolving.

turbo96z28

12-11-2005, 03:30 PM

Too funny! I made a countdown timer to the unveiling, changing the script from the "Countdown to the 2006 Budweiser Shootout" clock from Insider Racing News (http://insiderracingnews.com/), and variants of it are now appearing on other sites! I put my countdown timer link in my signature on Chirpthird.com (http://www.chirpthird.com) last week and it's interesting to see how it is evolving.

i just saw it. that's pretty good. link it to your sig on here.

skorpion317

12-11-2005, 04:33 PM

I love it. There's a few things here and there I would change, but overall the car is outstanding.

The front end is awesome - very aggressive, mean-looking. I like the passenger-side foglight design, it fits in better with the overall shape and attitude of the car. The mirrors, while cool-looking, will never see production. The cowl hood is a ncie touch.

The rear of the car needs some attention. I like the taillights, they add to the aggressive look. the rear looks like it could squat down a bit more. The exhaust tips need to go, though. They're a little overdone.

I like the 1st-gen touches. I was totally against any retro concepts, but this car is not as retro as I thought it would be.

If anyone is at the New York Int'l. Auto Show, I'll be the guy bowing in front of the car in worship. I can't wait to see the final version in person.

Bearcat Steve

12-11-2005, 04:51 PM

No matter what the reasons were, they still had to sell them and there certainly wasn't a shortage of buyers. When you see a bad ass Camaro in a magazine or when someone is asked to pick out their favorite Camaro, 99% of the time they'll point to the 69.

Actually, Chevrolet did a study on the most recognizable Camaro. The 1985 IROC won. Keep in mind that not ALL car buyers are old farts or enthusiats like us.

Doug Harden

12-11-2005, 05:18 PM

Actually, Chevrolet did a study on the most recognizable Camaro. The 1985 IROC won. Keep in mind that not ALL car buyers are old farts or enthusiats like us.

Keep in mind that this clinic included most people who weren't old enough to remember the 1st or even the 2nd gen Camaros....of course you'd pick the only Camaro you really identify with....

FS3800

12-11-2005, 08:58 PM

Keep in mind that this clinic included most people who weren't old enough to remember the 1st or even the 2nd gen Camaros....of course you'd pick the only Camaro you really identify with....

i was born the year the 3rd gen came out.. but my favorite gen is 2nd.. i can't explain it :confused:

turbo96z28

12-11-2005, 09:57 PM

Keep in mind that this clinic included most people who weren't old enough to remember the 1st or even the 2nd gen Camaros....of course you'd pick the only Camaro you really identify with....

i spent my childhood staring at 3rd gens and was in love with 4th gens as a teen, but my favorite is still the 67.

Fbodfather

12-11-2005, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Bearcat Steve
"Actually, Chevrolet did a study on the most recognizable Camaro. The 1985 IROC won. Keep in mind that not ALL car buyers are old farts or enthusiats like us."

Originally Posted by Doug
"Keep in mind that this clinic included most people who weren't old enough to remember the 1st or even the 2nd gen Camaros....of course you'd pick the only Camaro you really identify with...."

You are both half right.

We did a clinic...actually two of them that I recall. At the last few minutes of the clinic, we finally 'fessed up and said "GM is looking to develop a new V8 RWD coupe....here are various pictures that represent 30 years of the Chevy Camaro.....which Camaro 'speaks to you' as the ultimate Camaro? (or some such words....which, by the way...I shoud go back and look at exactly how it was worded...that's important...)

Over 80% of the people picked the 1985 IROC.(you could have knocked me over with a feather....)

Now......they weren't all 25 years of age.
They were:

Camaro Female V6 owner under 35
Camaro Female V6 owner over 35
Camaro Female V8 owner under 35
Camaro Female V8 owner over 35
Camaro Male v6 under 35
Camaro male v6 over 35
Camaro male V8 under 35
Camaro male v8 over 35
....same breakdowns for Firebird and Mustang
....same breakdowns for Eclipse (no engine difference)
Female responders to "I'm going to buy a Sport Coupe in the next year" under 35
Same as above but over 35
Same as above except male under 35
Same as above except male over 35.

2,500 people. Each session twenty people within same category.

Now.....this was back in 1999 as I recall.....so yes, most of those people would have remembered 1st and 2nd gen cars.

turbo96z28

12-11-2005, 11:28 PM

.......................

this better all be going in "The Book." ;)

skorpion317

12-11-2005, 11:47 PM

an addition to my statement:

the rear also needs a small spoiler, a la the 1st gen-style, in keeping with the general theme of the car. I hope to see something like it on the final concept car. it would add to the "raciness" of the body lines.

danno02SS

12-11-2005, 11:50 PM

We did a clinic...actually two of them that I recall. At the last few minutes of the clinic, we finally 'fessed up and said "GM is looking to develop a new V8 RWD coupe....here are various pictures that represent 30 years of the Chevy Camaro.....which Camaro 'speaks to you' as the ultimate Camaro? (or some such words....which, by the way...I shoud go back and look at exactly how it was worded...that's important...)

Over 80% of the people picked the 1985 IROC.(you could have knocked me over with a feather....)

Now.....this was back in 1999 as I recall.....so yes, most of those people would have remembered 1st and 2nd gen cars.

Red,
Did these results influence the direction of the design back in '99?
If so, was that direction completely scrapped when work on the new Camaro stopped?
Were similar clinics (with similar polls) held again once work restarted.

I guess, I'm trying to get at what was the driver for the heavy 1st gen influence on the new car (other than the Mustangs sales numbers of course).
Thanks.

stars1010

12-12-2005, 02:50 AM

Man this thread grew 10 pages since the last time I looked at it.....

Cool stuff...

SNEAKY NEIL

12-12-2005, 08:09 AM

I guess, I'm trying to get at what was the driver for the heavy 1st gen influence on the new car (other than the Mustangs sales numbers of course).
Thanks.

Yeah, I guess I would be most dissapointed if there was a modern design created already and then by influence of the Mustang, the Camaro design was changed to a retro design.

I think it will be awhile before we find out such answers.

Darth Xed

12-12-2005, 08:44 AM

Chris 96 WS6

12-12-2005, 09:47 AM

I'm rather surprised that since the 85 IROC-Z won this... and by such a large margin... that it (apparently) didn't have more influence on the styling direction of the 5th Gen.

Agreed. Talk about ignoring your audience...

I almost fear the overwhelming success of the retro Stang may have blinded GM to Camaro's strengths. Enthusiasts have overwhelmingly wanted a retro 1st gen too, but will that ultimately be the best thing for the car?

In terms of pure asthetics I think the 3rd gen wins, followed closely by the early 2nd gens. But the 1982 was MT's car of the year and the lines are still seen as timeless in a lot of automotive circles.

GM could have done far worse (and may have) than pulling the essence of the 3rd gen into the concept. That being said, I do see some common lines/ideas from the 3rd gen in the concept.

I'm not saying the concept sucks at all....I like what I have seen so far, but 80% say "85 Iroc-Z" and the end result is a heavily retro 1st gen design?

I think a lot of things will make more sense after Jan. 9. :D

96_Camaro_B4C

12-12-2005, 09:48 AM

If over 80% :alert: picked the '85 IROC, that explains to me clearly why my good friend (female) refers to Camaros in general as "'80s sex cars", including my '96. Even though the 4th Gens were out in the '90s (not the '80s). :think: :lol:

She must be picturing a ragged out, louvred-rear-hatch-glass 3rd gen with a greasy-haired driver in her mind when she thinks of a Camaro. :(

No offense AT ALL intended toward our 3rd gen owners, 'cause I think they are sweet looking cars myself. In fact, when I first saw teaser pics of the '93, I was afraid they had ruined one of the best looking cars around (late 3rd gen IROC and Z28), though that fear quickly changed to satisfaction, as I love the 4th gens even more...

kick Z tail out

12-12-2005, 10:04 AM

No offense AT ALL intended toward our 3rd gen owners, 'cause I think they are sweet looking cars myself. In fact, when I first saw teaser pics of the '93, I was afraid they had ruined one of the best looking cars around (late 3rd gen IROC and Z28), though that fear quickly changed to satisfaction, as I love the 4th gens even more...
I had the exact same reaction, followed by the exact same satisfaction. :D

IZ28

12-12-2005, 10:10 AM

Mike2001SS

12-12-2005, 11:47 AM

SNEAKY NEIL

12-12-2005, 12:13 PM

Well for all you out there calling this car retro what the crap do you call every new car on the road today but a retro Euro look to all of them and you can't tell One car make from the other 50 feet away and you talk about retro. Everything out there now is almost a copy of the other company give me a break I love this car and if built it will sell more Camaro's a year than has been done in any year in the past decade.

It seems that you don't understand what "retro-modern design" is. The quick and dirty explanation is taking an existing design from the past, removed by more than one generation, and updating that existing design with contemporary design cues. That is what the Mustang is, and that is what the Camaro concept in the pictures is. There is a broader use of retro design that just refers to specific and recognizable design cues (not a complete design) from the past and modernizing it but that is not what we have here.

The retro Euro look you refer to, can you name a specific current design that uses those retro design cues?

Mike2001SS

12-12-2005, 12:29 PM

It seems that you don't understand what "retro-modern design" is. The quick and dirty explanation is taking an existing design from the past, removed by more than one generation, and updating that existing design with contemporary design cues. That is what the Mustang is, and that is what the Camaro concept in the pictures is. There is a broader use of retro design that just refers to specific and recognizable design cues (not a complete design) from the past and modernizing it but that is not what we have here.

The retro Euro look you refer to, can you name a specific current design that uses those retro design cues?

Neil I very well understand what the designs is and I for one love it. I see alot of different cars in this design as others do. What I ment on the new cars out today is most have body lines that look so much alike they almost copy each other in many ways from company to company so whats wrong with a car looking a little like something of the past. To most buying public now days it will look future because they were not even born when I had my first camaro. I was running the drag strips years before Mustang or Camaro was thought of and I see some retro but see modern as well.
I love it what more can I say and for those that will be at NAIS I will see you there and look forward to meeting you. We are in for some fun along time coming

SharpShooter_SS

12-12-2005, 01:02 PM

OK, I've been holed up (would have posted sooner, but work got in the way:-) looking at the pics over the weekend and now - all I can say is WOW!!! I'm glad I downloaded them before they disappeared again....

That thing even in it's current form screams CAMARO and certainly doesn't lack in the attitude department.

Some have commented on the fender flares as being too Mustang-like. I say go pop open a mag and look at the wheelwell design on the third gen - looks pretty close to me, except the radiusing extends to the bottom of the fenders and doesn't melt into the bodyline. I also see a third gen look in the front side profile and in the way the grill opening and angle mimics the look of the third gen front end headlight buckets. (I think I prefer the left (drivers) side treatment although the passenger side looks alright too) Overall very nice - I can see some A&S influence in there as well in the crisp looking edges. You really can't go wrong with the timeless Coke bottle styling even 40 some years after it first appeared. I'm not so sure what to think abou the fender vents - I'm not opposed but.....

I for one, am glad to see 3/4 windows - though I'm not sure how t-tops will fit in the picture but I'm fairly sure we won't see a true hardtop like the drawings suggest, so there will, in all likelihood, be a b-pillar to anchor those openings. I would like to see round taillamps - the car would fit in more with other Chevy coupes like Cobalt and Corvette.

Really nice job GM. Hope it isn't as far out as 2009 though - we need this now. I like the interior especially the seats - kinda reminds me of the racing shell style seats in the California IROC - hope they pull it off - seat mounted belts don't hurt ingress/egress to the back seats.

Cannot wait to see the concept next month - I'll have to live vicariously through others - Detroit is just too far away for me. And oh yeah, WOW!!!

One last thing Mr. RP, (sympathies to GM and all) the leaks certainly don't dampen my enthusiam for this car.... it just notches up the expectations and anticipation.... I'll be wreck come 2009.....

skorpion317

12-12-2005, 01:18 PM

I would definitely say the main reason the 3rd gens didn't have much influence in the concept is that they're viewed as "redneck" or "guido" cars - the guy with greasy hair, gold chains, etc. They may be very recognizable, but they're not necessarily viewed with positive results. I grew up in the 80's and 90's, so I was a little too young to remember that particular stereotype. For me, the 3rd gens don't carry that image. Unfortunately, for the rest of the public it does.

Chrome383Z

12-12-2005, 02:22 PM

3rd Gens carry alittle of that stigma for 2 reasons.

1) 80s period.
2) These cars are older and the "enter sterotypical slang here" can afford them now.

I expect this stigma to go to the 4th gens after their costs drop and drop with time. It's not specific to 3rd gens.

Before 3rd gens it was second gens, before that 1st gens. This was true with Mustangs too.

After the 6th gen is out a few years, then this new 5th gen will start to attain that stigma...

What is interesting is after they go through that phase, they usually become classics. The car to have I imagine 30-40 years from now will be a pristine 3rd gen camaro. And 1st and 2nds will only be in museums, LOL.

SMUJeremy

12-12-2005, 02:38 PM

Did anyone notice the black arrows that are drawn all over the pictures? Looks like the tailights/fog lights/headlights/grill/fender vents were still in progress from that clay model and could very well be different (by how much who knows) come January.

What I would give to know the comments at the other end of those arrows.

graham

12-12-2005, 03:58 PM

slayerxxx213

12-12-2005, 04:11 PM

For me personally when I think of Camaros it's the 3rd gen cars and the LT1 fourth gens that I really can identify with. Being born in '88 I saw lots of IROC-Z's running around when I was little and to this day I still love them...Then I remember seeing the 4th gens when they came out. I remember thinking to myself that they looked like a jet. To this day I still don't think there are many cars that look better. In fact I always thought Camaros and Trans Ams looked far better than the Corvette.....I hope that that tradition will continue but I'll just have to wait until January to find out.

montytrmpt

12-12-2005, 07:10 PM

I thought since everyone else on the message board was posting in this thread I'd jump on the band wagon. I've read over a lot of the posts since the pictures came out, especially comments from Red Planet, and I'm pretty sure this is not what we'll see at the unveiling. I love this design, and I'm pretty sure this is only a rough draft of the final concept. It'll prolly be the same chassis, general style/shape etc., and I'm looking forward to seeing the polished version.

That said, I like the fact that this car has a trunk and not a hatch. Also, it looks like the engine may fit under the hood. (That's a good thing, because by the time I can afford one it'll need an engine rebuild, LOL. Stupid grad school) Anyway, if there are any GM Engineers looking at these posts I'd like to put my order in for.... cup holders. Now I know that is one of those things I shouldn't be worried about at this stage, but I wanted to give the guys at Chevrolet time to work it in. Maybe let the Performance division in on it, so my Coke doesn't fall in my lap when I make a turn at 30mph. Always good to think ahead.

Joe K. 96 Zeee!!

12-12-2005, 07:49 PM

I was born in '76, but didn't get into cars until much later. I really only remember the first time I saw a '93 Camaro. My first reaction is that the designers must have used a door stop for their inspiration. A few years after, the design really grew on me, more so with the 98+ cars. Now I have owned 98, 96, and 99 Camaro's.

Now I've been paying a lot of attention to the market since the late '90's and this is the first time I'm seeing the whole thing play out with the Camaro. It really is exciting and terrifying at the same time! :bow:

Heatmaker

12-12-2005, 11:42 PM

Less Retro More Jet!!!!!

LuvMyZ

12-12-2005, 11:55 PM

I'll post my thoughts too - read all 42 pages so far :) . I love this car! I am going to love it no matter how it turns out as long as it holds true to RP's description of Camaro. I trust him and the good folks on this project enough to make us proud.

I do need to add that I am in awe of the headlight/grille opening. The way it looks like it's ready to take on all comers and kick their butts is the best part of the car to me - besides the word Camaro on it of course!

Please make it 07 - 40th Anniversary!

OutsiderIROC-Z

12-13-2005, 12:00 AM

IfShe must be picturing a ragged out, louvred-rear-hatch-glass

Gawd I hate those louvers.... :rolleyes:

Fbodfather

12-13-2005, 12:10 AM

Red,
Did these results influence the direction of the design back in '99?
If so, was that direction completely scrapped when work on the new Camaro stopped?
Were similar clinics (with similar polls) held again once work restarted.

I guess, I'm trying to get at what was the driver for the heavy 1st gen influence on the new car (other than the Mustangs sales numbers of course).
Thanks.

come back and ask me these questions in February.

turbo96z28

12-13-2005, 12:13 AM

come back and ask me these questions in February.

or you could just write that book already! :D

Fbodfather

12-13-2005, 12:20 AM

It didn't surprise me at all that the IROC-Z won that. Third Gens will probably always be the most popular Camaros in general, especially when alot of people base things on looks alone.

Most enthusiasts will go for the way back stuff for various reasons. Although, as the newer stuff ages, (if you want to call something from the 80's newer) alot of people are getting more and more interested in them.

Why do you say the 3rd gen will probably always be the most popular Camaros in general? Please don't get me wrong......when I first saw the 3rd gen......OMG......nearly fell over........just incredible.

That said, the 2nd gen outsold the 3rd gen. Not as collectible right now......

Interestingly the 1969 Camaro seems when looking at resale values, to be one Camaro that stands out .....but I remind people that not only was it not in the top 5 'best selling years'....but it was also a 16 month car! (you will recall we did not announce the 1970 Camaro until the early spring of 1970.)

When you talk about 3rd and 4th gens to people...generally...they talk about how low the car sits to the ground...how heavy and long and wide-opening the doors are...and the difficulty getting in and out of them...esp. in parking lots. (my mother turned 81 today......--December 12 -- and she laughs when she hears people say that the Camaro is hard to get into. She's got a Bright Red 2002 and can hardly wait to get her hands on a new one...and she'll be there on the 9th....threatening me that if we don't build it, she's gonna ground me and everyone else at GM....) (better warn Lutz that she can throw a mean bedroom slipper and clip you from 1/4 mile) but I digress.......

I personally love the 3rd and 4th gen cars...in terms of looks/handling/performance/etc........however, I believe that one of the reasons Mustang has always been successful is that they stayed pretty true to their original heritage. (OK...the early 70s cars got massive...) but with exeception of the Mustang II, they kept a formula that was appealing to a wider audience. Camaro, on the other hand....did not. The car became more like a jet fighter, if you will....and no question that it was bred for the road.....incredible handing on top of straight line performance. I've been raked over the coals on more than one occassion when I'd say "I don't want to outsell the Mustang.......I want to continually outperform it on the tracks!"

I would not call the new car "retro"....I'd call it "21st century with respect to heritage"...and when you see the car in person....I'd ask that you stand back....and look at it for a while (you may have to push people aside with guards to do so!)....and I think you will find clues to all four generations of Camaro. That's great design.

The final analysis? I guess we'll know after January 20th or so...when a lot of people make their way to Detroit to look at the concept in person. Make no mistake.....there will be people that hate it. (I have yet to see a car that everyone loves....) But I also believe the majority will embrace it.

Time will tell.

Just glad that finally when I say "The Future Indeed Looks Bright"...there are finally some people that realize that I wasn't lying after all!

Fbodfather

12-13-2005, 12:23 AM

or you could just write that book already! :D

funny that you should mention that. A 'certain' webmaster and I were chatting last evening on IM.....and he'd like to help me write that book. The problem is: What DO I put in there? There's so much I can think of that goes beyond Camaro.......and as we were talking, I came up with about 20 chapters.

The real question is: would anyone really want to buy a book written by a guy who grew up in a Chevy Dealership in Western PA?

Z284ever

12-13-2005, 12:25 AM

The real question is: would anyone really want to buy a book written by a guy who grew up in a Chevy Dealership in Western PA?

Yes. But you would have to sign it for me. :)

SageofKnight

12-13-2005, 12:25 AM

Don't forget that the car has to go though a mid year styling update and some stuff already designed may be slated to show up later. Just from looking at the mounting points it sure does look like the 98 Camaro's frontend was designed along with the 93.

Maybe RP knows...were both versions of the 4th gen done in a similar timeframe?

turbo96z28

12-13-2005, 12:29 AM

detltu

12-13-2005, 12:48 AM

I will buy a copy of that book as well. Signed please.

Darth Xed

12-13-2005, 08:27 AM

The real question is: would anyone really want to buy a book written by a guy who grew up in a Chevy Dealership in Western PA?

Yes, please.

:)

jcamere94z28

12-13-2005, 08:47 AM

funny that you should mention that. A 'certain' webmaster and I were chatting last evening on IM.....and he'd like to help me write that book. The problem is: What DO I put in there? There's so much I can think of that goes beyond Camaro.......and as we were talking, I came up with about 20 chapters.

The real question is: would anyone really want to buy a book written by a guy who grew up in a Chevy Dealership in Western PA?

Most likely.. you will probably get everyone in cz28.com buying the book... and anyone else that would ever be interested in a Camaro and plenty of other enthusiast. Us... the members of Cz28.com will buy it for sure because we believe that we ALL have lived and suffered and experienced what you are putting down in that book. We all suffered the death of the F-body back in 2002, we all experienced the emptiness of not having our most beloved car reborn into a 5th gen... and now we all are very excited and can't wait to be able to get our hands on that 5th gen.. because indeed the future looks bright!

I love my Z06 it doesn't speak to me like the Z28 did to me. The Z28 and I had tigher and stronger bond.. and i can't explain it. I can't understand why I still miss it after been so long since i had it. I can't explain how i can still feel connected to it if the Z06 outperforms my Z28 in every way... or that funny feeling inside everytime i see a nicely keep LT1 white camaro going down the street. Don't get me wrong I love my Blue Z06 but, damn, I know what I want for my daily driver when it comes out!!! :bow: not very practical.. but hey... when was that my main concern. :) :cool:

Mike2001SS

12-13-2005, 08:55 AM

PacerX

12-13-2005, 09:12 AM

Being as anally retentive as I am, I'll be happy to do the first proofing for you.

After that you'll want a professional to do it, but I'll catch most of the gremmar/speilling erly.

Blue89Bird

12-13-2005, 09:26 AM

IZ28

12-13-2005, 11:03 AM

Why do you say the 3rd gen will probably always be the most popular Camaros in general? Please don't get me wrong......when I first saw the 3rd gen......OMG......nearly fell over........just incredible.

That said, the 2nd gen outsold the 3rd gen. Not as collectible right now......

Interestingly the 1969 Camaro seems when looking at resale values, to be one Camaro that stands out .....but I remind people that not only was it not in the top 5 'best selling years'....but it was also a 16 month car! (you will recall we did not announce the 1970 Camaro until the early spring of 1970.

There are many reasons why 1sts go for so much money. The time they came out in, people being able to buy the cars they had when they were young again, percieved value, getting around emmisions, and the single biggest reason, age. In the early 80's 1st Gens had no value, time does it every time.

Why do I say that 3rds will probably always be the most popular to the general public? Because I also believe without a doubt, that 3rds defined the word Camaro better than any other Gen, just as the poll said. They left a bigger impact on the public than the other Gens did. They were THE CAR of their time, regardless of any number or figures, that's what they were. (the most stolen cars of their time also!) Later 2nds were close in that aspect, but the image that 3rds had in the 80s made even the Corvette look boring. Also, 3rds outsold the M*stang more times than any other Gen and were noted for their outstanding style constantly, nothing looked or looks like them still. They were just ahead of their time and will continue to gain appreciation from enthusiasts and in value as they age. BTW, check out what some mint/low-mile top model 3rds are going for, most of them are more than mid-later 2nd Gens already. ;)

1990 Turbo Grand Prix

12-13-2005, 11:07 AM

Being as anally retentive as I am, I'll be happy to do the first proofing for you.

After that you'll want a professional to do it, but I'll catch most of the gremmar/speilling erly.
Donen't lett Pacer, he con't spelle tu goud.

blue 79 Z/28

12-13-2005, 02:37 PM

Being as anally retentive as I am, I'll be happy to do the first proofing for you.

After that you'll want a professional to do it, but I'll catch most of the gremmar/speilling erly.uhhhhh:shock: gremmar/speilling erly :D

SMUJeremy

12-13-2005, 02:48 PM

uhhhhh:shock: gremmar/speilling erly :D
Mayday, mayday...humor detector down...

blue 79 Z/28

12-13-2005, 03:08 PM

Mayday, mayday...humor detector down...i got it, i can detect sarcasm;)

turbo96z28

12-13-2005, 06:34 PM

Donen't lett Pacer, he con't spelle tu goud.

Thest nhut tro, Pescar spiels jost foine.

Brangeta

12-13-2005, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by Red Planet

The real question is: would anyone really want to buy a book written by a guy who grew up in a Chevy Dealership in Western PA?
Heck, I'd buy it, just as long as it had plenty of pictures of the 4th gen design sketches, clay models, and pictures of the Banshee and California Camaro I can't just find searching around the Internet. But hey... some of those pictures better be in color though ;), I don't see in black and white.

It would be nice to see the prototypes and such. There was one called Tomcat (in my photo gallery I made) that I've never been able to find any info about. Much of the info about this type of stuff was either never published, or lost among stories in car magazines I don't want to buy off ebay. Most of the pictures are lost and gone forever as well. I'd love to see more pics similar to those in my gallery here: http://community.webshots.com/album/264440848pGJHVT

guionM

12-13-2005, 10:10 PM

........however, I believe that one of the reasons Mustang has always been successful is that they stayed pretty true to their original heritage. (OK...the early 70s cars got massive...) but with exeception of the Mustang II, they kept a formula that was appealing to a wider audience. Camaro, on the other hand....did not. The car became more like a jet fighter, if you will....and no question that it was bred for the road.....incredible handing on top of straight line performance. I've been raked over the coals on more than one occassion when I'd say "I don't want to outsell the Mustang.......I want to continually outperform it on the tracks!" ....

That's where my entire "issue" about the Camaro is (as I've probally said a million times since I started posting on this site). I did a thread some time ago about how I felt enthusiasts were destroying Camaro and it's future.

I'm a type of person who likes to compete, and at the same time I know that the auto business is still a business. If a car doesn't make a case for selling, it's going to be tough to defend in bad times.

The 4th gen IMO has really spoiled people, and to a large extent doomed Camaro's future (I'm speaking past tense, 2002 here). Sure, Camaro was a hot handling missle, but Mustang was handing it it's a**.

I'm probally glader than anyone that Camaro is going back to it's roots and is actually going to take on the Mustang on more than just the track. :bnow:

downwithmustang

12-13-2005, 10:15 PM

I think the concept look better than finish 05 mustang. I can't wait for car to come out going to put deposit down and still wondering should I trade in my 4 gen camaro in. At last GM is doing the right thing :)

camaro1093ac

12-16-2005, 09:18 PM

Scott I want a new camaro in the worst way at 57 it could be my last new car lol. Now for the bad part ,if you look for my post on here you will see I didn`t like much about the pics.The rear looks like a Caddy or a Vette camaros should not look like them.The side 1/4 panel has mustang vents another no no.the roof line was nice but the upper grill has to go,it looks like one of the trucks or Impala.The square speedo doesn`t go with the lines of the interior and please don`t put color matching faces on them unless its an option we can delete.Oh and the mirrors were ugly and overpowering.Make a rear view camera or something. A nice stripped down Z28 version with an LS7 would be nice but no dumb spoilers that don`t work.A version with radio,A/C and rear seat delete would be fantastic.Guess I grew up in the days when we could do all this stuff but I hate having a car that is the same as all the others on the road with one option package.Oh well I guess I`m dreaming again.Thanks Scott P.S. I`ll keep my 78 and 94 also.

MarcR94v6

12-16-2005, 09:24 PM

I strongly believe that the leaked pictures were old C.G.I. drafts that look way different from what we will see in a matter of weeks.

Don't worry.

FS3800

12-16-2005, 11:59 PM

I strongly believe that the leaked pictures were old C.G.I. drafts that look way different from what we will see in a matter of weeks.

Don't worry.

they certainly weren't cgi.. clearly they were not pictures of a real car of course.. but they were pictures of a clay model, divided in half to show two different designs because it would be two expensive to make two different complete clay models

why would they divide a cgi model in half? it doesnt cost anything really to have two different design directions as cgi models..

also, the setting in those pictures is clearly one that has been used before.. i forget the name of it, some around here know it.. but it's one that GM takes a lot of pictures of their cars in.. some hiddin area in Michigan i think

kick Z tail out

12-19-2005, 08:09 AM

also, the setting in those pictures is clearly one that has been used before.. i forget the name of it, some around here know it.. but it's one that GM takes a lot of pictures of their cars in.. some hiddin area in Michigan i think
I recognize that square myself, it's part of GM's Michigan complex. I've seen some old Vettes sitting in that very spot before.

Blue89Bird

12-19-2005, 08:40 AM

I recognize that square myself, it's part of GM's Michigan complex. I've seen some old Vettes sitting in that very spot before.

its the circle outside of the design center

kick Z tail out

12-19-2005, 08:41 AM

its the circle outside of the design center
Circle, square... Whatever :p ;)

cgman69

12-19-2005, 11:09 AM

NewbieWar

12-19-2005, 04:47 PM

Well, I can finally see that the rumors are true and gm is getting back on track. As a lifelong camaro fan I could not be more delighted. I am the proud owner of a 1999 stock Z28 m6 and getting ready to explain to my wife why a 2nd camaro would be a perfect addition to my family.;)

lol... and you're wondering why... it is relitive what a woman thinks about the car...? :D

haha... ;) gl with the wife...

Bert02SS

12-19-2005, 05:50 PM

The finished car will probably differ from the photo, but I give it a 7 on a scale of 10. The Mustang was a 9.9 ( Nothing's perfect!). The '09 Camaro's tailights are wrong, all wrong. They need to be larger and more ovoid, with horizontally split colors for turn and backup. The mirrors are ridiculous, and will not see production. I hope a body-blended mirror will. Fix those things, and we are up to an 8 or and 8.5.

TTopJohn

12-19-2005, 11:41 PM

When you talk about 3rd and 4th gens to people...generally...they talk about how low the car sits to the ground...how heavy and long and wide-opening the doors are...and the difficulty getting in and out of them...esp. in parking lots.

The car became more like a jet fighter, if you will....and no question that it was bred for the road.....incredible handing on top of straight line performance. I've been raked over the coals on more than one occassion when I'd say "I don't want to outsell the Mustang.......I want to continually outperform it on the tracks!"

See, that's why I like the 3rd and 4th gen cars the best. With a 77 black and gold TA SE next, and a 1st gen car last. I like them all of course (and have given serious consideration to buying one of the new Crate Camaros that can now be built with all new parts, but I digress....), but the jet fighter ones are my favs. I really wanted the 5th gen to be a modernized 4th gen, 1991 GTA, or 89 IROC-Z. T-Tops and all. Retro, sort of - but bitchin' 80s Def Leppard retro, not 60s retro.

However, I realize not everyone is stuck in 1989 like me. And my dream 2009 IROC-Z won't sell to the general public.

So considering that, the unfinished model in the pictures is pretty good. I like the haunches, I dig cars with hips, and my 4th gen certainly has them. I wish it was lower and wider and longer, and less upright and mustangish. But I'm wiling to reserve judgment until I see a finished concept, or a showroom example. And really, as much as I would like it to have t-tops, as long as it has a 6 speed and at least a 400hp/400lb-ft LSx engine then it will be a worthy Camaro.